Justifiable use of deadly force or not?

[OODA_Loop]

What fear? Fear of a Black person?

No not fear of a black person, Fear of great bodily injury.

 

[OODA_Loop]

This needs to have a hearing and a fact finding investigation.

The initial fact finding investigation resulted in the Sheriff passing on charges.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Doesn't make it illegal either

If I was on the jury I'd say it was justified
I really don't give a shit that some asshole who would physically assault someone else got dead

Do you think we should follow the Constitution? Is the Constitution important?

WHat's that got to do with this case and the evidence I saw on the video?

One guy forcibly shoved a smaller man to the ground and got shot
The guy who got shot committed assault
Shooting justfied

It has everything to do with it. It's called the 8th Amendment. Pushing a guy down who is standing outside your wife's car with your kids in it, isn't equal to the punishment of being shot and killed.

The guy standing there had not committed any crime

The guy who assaulted him did

And the 8th amendment applies to the government not the individual

He hadn't committed a crime "yet." He was being aggressive by yelling at the woman in the car with the KIDS.

Really odd that a man is yelling at a woman with kids in the car... but you guys don't give a rat's ass about that. Where the woman and kids are more vulnerable, but you act like the man that got pushed down is some defenseless child and was attacked by this crazed 500 pound bodybuilder.

Yet?

And you think the guy who blindsided him could accurately predict the future?

 

[beagle9]

Yes true, but the details of this case might force the issue of looking at the shooters past just to make sure that he wasn't looking for a fight or stalking this store parking lot for that fight.

It may. But his past isn’t likely to be proven to have triggered his own assault.

No his current actions did a great job enough of that. No past required...

Victim blaming now? Maybe the rape victim should have dressed less provocatively as well, eh?

Your Demon-crat is showing, best cover up.

You're taking everything into account except for the fact that the guy that got shot was defending his girlfriend, who was being threatened by an armed man. Where is her self defense rights?

Where are the self defense rights of the guy that got shot?

She was verbally attacked no right to lethal self-defense.

Guy that got shot initiated a hands on attack Thats what got him shot, No right to lethal self-defense.

Well that's good because the self-defense used on him wasn't lethal. He was just pushed down.

Because the assault on him wasn’t committed in defense of “self”. Are you even trying to be serious?

Self defense of his woman means nothing eh ?? Remember this, before you choose to use self defense in regards to another person being assaulted or attacked you best think twice, because if you intervene you could be the one killed, and unless you are willing to risk life and limb, then just stay home and never go anywhere.

 

[Circe]

Okay, I draw several conclusions from this useful thread.

1. Florida has a serious gun-crazies problem, between all the mass shooters and the self-righteous guys looking to kill someone, anyone they can talk into getting shot.

2. Assume everyone is carrying and retreat from verbal abuse. They're crazy: just get away. America isn't normal anymore. We're all back in Tombstone, Wild West. They'll shoot you same as look at you. I guess this is what it's like to live in Chicago now.

3. Don't park in the handicap spots unless you've got the plate or the hanger. Because some men are just looking for an excuse to terrorize and shoot you, especially if you're a woman.

4. Whatever anyone says, never hit them. Because then they'll draw and shoot to kill: they've been waiting and hoping for that and they've rehearsed it. Just beat feet.

5. I'd better carry too, as soon as I can: even up the odds a little.

 

[beagle9]

This needs to have a hearing and a fact finding investigation.

The initial fact finding investigation resulted in the Sheriff passing on charges.

Not just the sheriff, because we know how close nit the good ole boys clubs are right ?? Might need a federal investigation if rises to that level.

 

[skews13]

Size doesn't matter. You have no idea what another person can do physically. How much did Royce Gracie weigh when he won his UFC championships when they had NO WEIGHT CLASSES?

Sure that guy who was so easily shoved to the ground certainly comported himself like a black belt

and FYI when deciding if a shooting was justified if the person assaulting is larger than the person being assaulted does come onto the decision as to whether the assault victim felt he was in danger

It's pretty easy to push someone to the ground when they don't see it coming. Is this shit too complicated for you?

I mean you did say that you thought shoving someone to the ground deserved a death sentence penalty. So...

Yes it is easy to assault people when they don't see it coming

That doesn't make it legal

The guy was defending his wife and kids from some psycho that was yelling at them over a parking space. The guy that got shot and killed, actually had more justification to use deadly force than the guy that got pushed down.

Defending people who were safely locked in a car while a guy yelled at them?

Really?

The guy yelling committed no crime

You need to take your own signature advice.

Who was the guy yelling, the parking lot police?

Here, let me give you your own advice.

Mind your own fucking business.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Not just the sheriff, because we know how close nit the good ole boys clubs are right ?? Might need a federal investigation if rises to that level.

So your saying the Sheriff is complicit ? Isnt that what they said in Zimmerman ?

 

[Skull Pilot]

I'm of the mind that you don't assault people
I don't care that people who assault others get dead

Again, so do you believe in the Constitution or not? I want to make sure to hold you to this.

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

I am arguing no such thing

A civilian has no authority to pass either bail or sentences for crimes therefore the 8th amendment does not apply

He shot in self defense the law states that he now has to justify that shooting or be convicted of a crime

YOU have stated YOU think that someone who simply pushes someone to the ground DESERVES to be shot to death. So YOU either believe in the principle the 8th Amendment is based on, against Cruel and Unusual Punishment, or YOU don't think everyone deserves equal rights... or you think we should just be the wild west where you can just shoot and kill whoever you want even if you don't feel your life is really at risk. I'm just going by what YOU have said.

Where did I say that?

Quote it.

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences set by the courts not to individual citizens

And you don't know how the guy who got blindsided by a much larger man felt do you?

How would you feel if some guy a head taller and 100 lbs heavier than you blindsided you ?

Would you maybe feel your life might be in danger?

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sure that guy who was so easily shoved to the ground certainly comported himself like a black belt

and FYI when deciding if a shooting was justified if the person assaulting is larger than the person being assaulted does come onto the decision as to whether the assault victim felt he was in danger

It's pretty easy to push someone to the ground when they don't see it coming. Is this shit too complicated for you?

I mean you did say that you thought shoving someone to the ground deserved a death sentence penalty. So...

Yes it is easy to assault people when they don't see it coming

That doesn't make it legal

The guy was defending his wife and kids from some psycho that was yelling at them over a parking space. The guy that got shot and killed, actually had more justification to use deadly force than the guy that got pushed down.

Defending people who were safely locked in a car while a guy yelled at them?

Really?

The guy yelling committed no crime

You need to take your own signature advice.

Who was the guy yelling, the parking lot police?

Here, let me give you your own advice.

Mind your own fucking business.

Yelling is not a crime

 

[Lewdog]

Size doesn't matter. You have no idea what another person can do physically. How much did Royce Gracie weigh when he won his UFC championships when they had NO WEIGHT CLASSES?

Sure that guy who was so easily shoved to the ground certainly comported himself like a black belt

and FYI when deciding if a shooting was justified if the person assaulting is larger than the person being assaulted does come onto the decision as to whether the assault victim felt he was in danger

It's pretty easy to push someone to the ground when they don't see it coming. Is this shit too complicated for you?

I mean you did say that you thought shoving someone to the ground deserved a death sentence penalty. So...

Yes it is easy to assault people when they don't see it coming

That doesn't make it legal

The guy was defending his wife and kids from some psycho that was yelling at them over a parking space. The guy that got shot and killed, actually had more justification to use deadly force than the guy that got pushed down.

Defending people who were safely locked in a car while a guy yelled at them?

Really?

The guy yelling committed no crime

Again you just proved you didn't watch the video. When the shooter was pushed to the ground, the wife had gotten out of the car and the shooter stepped into her face.

Seriously, at this point watch the fucking video before you comment anymore. You are just wasting people's time.

 

[OODA_Loop]

Who was the guy yelling, the parking lot police?

Does not warrant assault. Committing assault puts you in jeopardy of the assaulted's view of lethality. You could end up deaded.

 

[beagle9]

Not just the sheriff, because we know how close nit the good ole boys clubs are right ?? Might need a federal investigation if rises to that level.

So your saying the Sheriff is complicit ? Isnt that what they said in Zimmerman ?

Might or might not be, do you know or just accept the findings always ??

 

[Lewdog]

Again, so do you believe in the Constitution or not? I want to make sure to hold you to this.

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

I am arguing no such thing

A civilian has no authority to pass either bail or sentences for crimes therefore the 8th amendment does not apply

He shot in self defense the law states that he now has to justify that shooting or be convicted of a crime

YOU have stated YOU think that someone who simply pushes someone to the ground DESERVES to be shot to death. So YOU either believe in the principle the 8th Amendment is based on, against Cruel and Unusual Punishment, or YOU don't think everyone deserves equal rights... or you think we should just be the wild west where you can just shoot and kill whoever you want even if you don't feel your life is really at risk. I'm just going by what YOU have said.

Where did I say that?

Quote it.

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences set by the courts not to individual citizens

And you don't know how the guy who got blindsided by a much larger man felt do you?

How would you feel if some guy a head taller and 100 lbs heavier than you blindsided you ?

Would you maybe feel your life might be in danger?

The 8th Amendment refers to Cruel and Unusual Punishment.

Do you honestly not know that?

 

[Vastator]

It may. But his past isn’t likely to be proven to have triggered his own assault.

No his current actions did a great job enough of that. No past required...

Victim blaming now? Maybe the rape victim should have dressed less provocatively as well, eh?

Your Demon-crat is showing, best cover up.

You're taking everything into account except for the fact that the guy that got shot was defending his girlfriend, who was being threatened by an armed man. Where is her self defense rights?

Where are the self defense rights of the guy that got shot?

She was verbally attacked no right to lethal self-defense.

Guy that got shot initiated a hands on attack Thats what got him shot, No right to lethal self-defense.

Well that's good because the self-defense used on him wasn't lethal. He was just pushed down.

Because the assault on him wasn’t committed in defense of “self”. Are you even trying to be serious?

Self defense of his woman means nothing eh ?? Remember this, before you choose to use self defense in regards to another person being assaulted or attacked you best think twice, because if you intervene you could be the one killed, and unless you are willing to risk life and limb, then just stay home and never go anywhere.

“His” woman? Misogynist much? And assaulting someone for saying something to someone, in a way you don’t like; does not legally give you the right to assault someone...

 

[skews13]

This needs to have a hearing and a fact finding investigation.

The initial fact finding investigation resulted in the Sheriff passing on charges.

Not just the sheriff, because we know how close nit the good ole boys clubs are right ?? Might need a federal investigation if rises to that level.

It's not going to happen in Florida. That place is a special kind of stupid. And special stupid requires a special kind of circumstances.

People better come to understand. If you're going to live by laws like that.

You had god damned better be ready to die by laws like that.

Apparently the special kind of stupid that exists in Florida doesn't understand the concept of the two way street.

I am heartened though by those kids in the Parkland school shooting, who are obviously more intelligent than the dumb ass adults, and use the term adults very loosely here, that they don't believe in gun nut America, and their dumb ass gun nut, small dick, way of thinking, and that generation is going to make some changes in the years to come.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sure that guy who was so easily shoved to the ground certainly comported himself like a black belt

and FYI when deciding if a shooting was justified if the person assaulting is larger than the person being assaulted does come onto the decision as to whether the assault victim felt he was in danger

It's pretty easy to push someone to the ground when they don't see it coming. Is this shit too complicated for you?

I mean you did say that you thought shoving someone to the ground deserved a death sentence penalty. So...

Yes it is easy to assault people when they don't see it coming

That doesn't make it legal

The guy was defending his wife and kids from some psycho that was yelling at them over a parking space. The guy that got shot and killed, actually had more justification to use deadly force than the guy that got pushed down.

Defending people who were safely locked in a car while a guy yelled at them?

Really?

The guy yelling committed no crime

Again you just proved you didn't watch the video. When the shooter was pushed to the ground, the wife had gotten out of the car and the shooter stepped into her face.

Seriously, at this point watch the fucking video before you comment anymore. You are just wasting people's time.

HE did not touch the woman

he was yelling at her

and I'm sure she was also yelling at him

 

[Vastator]

It may. But his past isn’t likely to be proven to have triggered his own assault.

No his current actions did a great job enough of that. No past required...

Victim blaming now? Maybe the rape victim should have dressed less provocatively as well, eh?

Your Demon-crat is showing, best cover up.

You're taking everything into account except for the fact that the guy that got shot was defending his girlfriend, who was being threatened by an armed man. Where is her self defense rights?

Where are the self defense rights of the guy that got shot?

She was verbally attacked no right to lethal self-defense.

Guy that got shot initiated a hands on attack Thats what got him shot, No right to lethal self-defense.

Well that's good because the self-defense used on him wasn't lethal. He was just pushed down.

Because the assault on him wasn’t committed in defense of “self”. Are you even trying to be serious?

Self defense of his woman means nothing eh ?? Remember this, before you choose to use self defense in regards to another person being assaulted or attacked you best think twice, because if you intervene you could be the one killed, and unless you are willing to risk life and limb, then just stay home and never go anywhere.

The victim hadn’t assaulted, or attacked anyone. Quit trying to resort to a “Red Herring”. It doesn’t help you prove your case...

 

[Skull Pilot]

The constitution has nothing to do with it

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences passed by the government

Yeah, the punishment should fit the crime. You are fucking arguing that the guy deserved the death penalty for pushing the guy down. You fucking believe in the Constitution or not. It's based on the same principle.

I am arguing no such thing

A civilian has no authority to pass either bail or sentences for crimes therefore the 8th amendment does not apply

He shot in self defense the law states that he now has to justify that shooting or be convicted of a crime

YOU have stated YOU think that someone who simply pushes someone to the ground DESERVES to be shot to death. So YOU either believe in the principle the 8th Amendment is based on, against Cruel and Unusual Punishment, or YOU don't think everyone deserves equal rights... or you think we should just be the wild west where you can just shoot and kill whoever you want even if you don't feel your life is really at risk. I'm just going by what YOU have said.

Where did I say that?

Quote it.

The 8th amendment applies to bail and sentences set by the courts not to individual citizens

And you don't know how the guy who got blindsided by a much larger man felt do you?

How would you feel if some guy a head taller and 100 lbs heavier than you blindsided you ?

Would you maybe feel your life might be in danger?

The 8th Amendment refers to Cruel and Unusual Punishment.

Do you honestly not know that?

Wow you really don't know that the Bill of rights applies to the government not the citizens?

People cannot set bail or pass sentences for crimes only the government can do that

 

[Lewdog]

It's pretty easy to push someone to the ground when they don't see it coming. Is this shit too complicated for you?

I mean you did say that you thought shoving someone to the ground deserved a death sentence penalty. So...

Yes it is easy to assault people when they don't see it coming

That doesn't make it legal

The guy was defending his wife and kids from some psycho that was yelling at them over a parking space. The guy that got shot and killed, actually had more justification to use deadly force than the guy that got pushed down.

Defending people who were safely locked in a car while a guy yelled at them?

Really?

The guy yelling committed no crime

Again you just proved you didn't watch the video. When the shooter was pushed to the ground, the wife had gotten out of the car and the shooter stepped into her face.

Seriously, at this point watch the fucking video before you comment anymore. You are just wasting people's time.

HE did not touch the woman

he was yelling at her

and I'm sure she was also yelling at him

He stepped up into her face as he was yelling at her. He's a man. She's a woman... with KIDS in the car. Really odd how you guys are fucking saying how defenseless the shooter was, but you don't give a shit about the woman and the kids. What scumbags.