Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[Ernie S.]

The best way for progressives to keep guns out of the hands of criminals would be to not buy them. Just saying

Best post of the whole thread!

 

[Ernie S.]

Very good.

And your point is....??

My point, best expressed by Renan: "The idea that no solution exists never occurs to them, and in this lies their strength." and, "Our opinions become fixed at the point where we stop thinking."

The solution...stop the media from glorifying mass shooters...don't reveal their names or their photos....anyone who commits a gun crime ....a long prison sentence.....

Problem solved....

Gee, now you are willing to silence the Free Press but not to give an inch on gun control.

In fact I agree with you, in the sense that the press should self censor, and the NRA and its followers should do so too. I hope this is not to abstract for you.

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.

I've never said we should abolish all gun laws. My point is that we have thousands that are insufficiently enforced.

More and newly worded laws will be just as ineffective to stop gun violence. Putting violent felons in prison for keeps WOULD have an effect.

 

[Brain357]

My point, best expressed by Renan: "The idea that no solution exists never occurs to them, and in this lies their strength." and, "Our opinions become fixed at the point where we stop thinking."

The solution...stop the media from glorifying mass shooters...don't reveal their names or their photos....anyone who commits a gun crime ....a long prison sentence.....

Problem solved....

Gee, now you are willing to silence the Free Press but not to give an inch on gun control.

In fact I agree with you, in the sense that the press should self censor, and the NRA and its followers should do so too. I hope this is not to abstract for you.

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.

I've never said we should abolish all gun laws. My point is that we have thousands that are insufficiently enforced.

More and newly worded laws will be just as ineffective to stop gun violence. Putting violent felons in prison for keeps WOULD have an effect.

We have the fullest jails in the world. Seems like other countries must be doing something better.

 

[Ernie S.]

The solution...stop the media from glorifying mass shooters...don't reveal their names or their photos....anyone who commits a gun crime ....a long prison sentence.....

Problem solved....

Gee, now you are willing to silence the Free Press but not to give an inch on gun control.

In fact I agree with you, in the sense that the press should self censor, and the NRA and its followers should do so too. I hope this is not to abstract for you.

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.

I've never said we should abolish all gun laws. My point is that we have thousands that are insufficiently enforced.

More and newly worded laws will be just as ineffective to stop gun violence. Putting violent felons in prison for keeps WOULD have an effect.

We have the fullest jails in the world. Seems like other countries must be doing something better.

We have the fullest jails in the world because we have 12% of our population committing half of the crimes.
Do you propose we ship that 12% to, say, Kenya, or do you think we should punish them for the crimes they commit? Maybe we should just let them go because they tend to overwhelmingly vote Democrat?

Some direct answers would be appreciated, but are unexpected.

 

[Ernie S.]

By the way. Is your screen name a joke? Is it akin to me calling myself Fat man?

 

[Brain357]

Gee, now you are willing to silence the Free Press but not to give an inch on gun control.

In fact I agree with you, in the sense that the press should self censor, and the NRA and its followers should do so too. I hope this is not to abstract for you.

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.

I've never said we should abolish all gun laws. My point is that we have thousands that are insufficiently enforced.

More and newly worded laws will be just as ineffective to stop gun violence. Putting violent felons in prison for keeps WOULD have an effect.

We have the fullest jails in the world. Seems like other countries must be doing something better.

We have the fullest jails in the world because we have 12% of our population committing half of the crimes.
Do you propose we ship that 12% to, say, Kenya, or do you think we should punish them for the crimes they commit? Maybe we should just let them go because they tend to overwhelmingly vote Democrat?

Some direct answers would be appreciated, but are unexpected.

So they are full because a minority of the population is committing crimes? I would think we should look at why that is rather than shipping them off. I don't really think it is a race issue. You like paying for lots of jails?

 

[Ernie S.]

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.

I've never said we should abolish all gun laws. My point is that we have thousands that are insufficiently enforced.

More and newly worded laws will be just as ineffective to stop gun violence. Putting violent felons in prison for keeps WOULD have an effect.

We have the fullest jails in the world. Seems like other countries must be doing something better.

We have the fullest jails in the world because we have 12% of our population committing half of the crimes.
Do you propose we ship that 12% to, say, Kenya, or do you think we should punish them for the crimes they commit? Maybe we should just let them go because they tend to overwhelmingly vote Democrat?

Some direct answers would be appreciated, but are unexpected.

So they are full because a minority of the population is committing crimes? I would think we should look at why that is rather than shipping them off. I don't really think it is a race issue. You like paying for lots of jails?

It's a cultural issue. That culture is rampant among that minority. Fix that culture. I can't but people respected within that culture can. Instead, we have Sharpton and Jackson and obama blaming abhorrent behavior on the white man.

No! Of course I don't like paying a lot for jails, BUT, I don't want criminals sleeping on my sofa either. Where would you put them if not in jails?

Edited to add: I see you are incapable of answering direct questions. I'm not shocked.

 

[Brain357]

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.

I've never said we should abolish all gun laws. My point is that we have thousands that are insufficiently enforced.

More and newly worded laws will be just as ineffective to stop gun violence. Putting violent felons in prison for keeps WOULD have an effect.

We have the fullest jails in the world. Seems like other countries must be doing something better.

We have the fullest jails in the world because we have 12% of our population committing half of the crimes.
Do you propose we ship that 12% to, say, Kenya, or do you think we should punish them for the crimes they commit? Maybe we should just let them go because they tend to overwhelmingly vote Democrat?

Some direct answers would be appreciated, but are unexpected.

So they are full because a minority of the population is committing crimes? I would think we should look at why that is rather than shipping them off. I don't really think it is a race issue. You like paying for lots of jails?

It's a cultural issue. That culture is rampant among that minority. Fix that culture. I can't but people respected within that culture can. Instead, we have Sharpton and Jackson and obama blaming abhorrent behavior on the white man.

No! Of course I don't like paying a lot for jails, BUT, I don't want criminals sleeping on my sofa either. Where would you put them if not in jails?

Well you have to jail them of course. But we might start looking at the cause of the problems and putting an end to it at some point. I agree Sharpton and Jackson aren't doing anyone any favors. If we are the greatest country in the world then there is no reason why we should have the fullest jails in the world. If throwing people in jail fixed the problem we'd have the lowest crime rates in the world.

 

[Ernie S.]

We let them out.

We know the cause of the problem, namely children born and raised in single parent families where they are not taught a strong work ethic and don't value conformance to society's laws or obtaining a good education. I'm at a loss to explain how to teach citizenship to people who insist I'm a racist based on my stating facts that embarrass them.
From what I see is the only way we can teach children to be responsible adults is by example. A second generation welfare mother with children by 3 or 4 baby-daddies is hardly the example these kids need.

 

[Brain357]

We let them out.

We know the cause of the problem, namely children born and raised in single parent families where they are not taught a strong work ethic and don't value conformance to society's laws or obtaining a good education. I'm at a loss to explain how to teach citizenship to people who insist I'm a racist based on my stating facts that embarrass them.
From what I see is the only way we can teach children to be responsible adults is by example. A second generation welfare mother with children by 3 or 4 baby-daddies is hardly the example these kids need.

Well I can't really disagree with that. I think some of the answers are in public education. But this is getting far off topic I think.

 

[Ernie S.]

Hmm We are coming to some commonality and you say we're going off topic.

Isn't some common ground what this discussion needs? Or are you so dead set against 2nd Amentment rights that the idea of rational discussion with the opposition infuriates you.

Gotta go stop by the bar. BBL.

 

[Brain357]

Hmm We are coming to some commonality and you say we're going off topic.

Isn't some common ground what this discussion needs? Or are you so dead set against 2nd Amentment rights that the idea of rational discussion with the opposition infuriates you.

Gotta go stop by the bar. BBL.

I've not suggested doing anything with the 2nd amendment. My issue is with the idea that more guns equals less crime. I don't think more guns are the answer, but that doesn't mean I want to disarm anyone other than criminals. I think if more guns did equal less crime we'd have the lowest crime rates as we clearly have the most guns. I think if I owned a bar as you do I'd probably carry too. But that doesn't mean it's a great idea for most people. Clearly it was a bad idea for the woman who was shot dead by her 2 year old for example. But it was a good idea for the guy who shot dead the guy who beheaded that woman. So I think it is dangerous to act like everyone should be carrying a gun. For most people they will never need one and may just be endangering themselves or others by carrying.

 

[kaz]

don't want to limit your right, I simply stated if my State had the ability to license gun owners I'd have no problem with that. It simply makes sense. You've made a number of suppositions, erroneously, on matters I don't support and fall back on not a solution, or even an effort to mitigate gun violence in America, by claiming your right. A right I don't support taking away, but one which must have some checks and balances in a diverse society of over 300 million people.

What about freedom of speech, can we limit that to people who get a license?

 

[kaz]

Since legislators are best convinced by arguments framed in campaign donations, I have decided the NRA is a terrorist organization, simply because they dominate the debate in Congress and in State Houses around the nation to put forth their agenda Guns good, gun control bad and if you disagree we will support your opponent.

And left wing advocacy groups don't do that. Seriously, you believe that.

 

[2aguy]

don't want to limit your right, I simply stated if my State had the ability to license gun owners I'd have no problem with that. It simply makes sense. You've made a number of suppositions, erroneously, on matters I don't support and fall back on not a solution, or even an effort to mitigate gun violence in America, by claiming your right. A right I don't support taking away, but one which must have some checks and balances in a diverse society of over 300 million people.

What about freedom of speech, can we limit that to people who get a license?

Let's not stop with just a license....let's register all books, articles and internet posts with the government....let's limit the number of pages you can use to write your books and articles...after all, do people really need more than a few pages to make their points....we can go on all day about limiting speech to protect people....

 

[kaz]

don't want to limit your right, I simply stated if my State had the ability to license gun owners I'd have no problem with that. It simply makes sense. You've made a number of suppositions, erroneously, on matters I don't support and fall back on not a solution, or even an effort to mitigate gun violence in America, by claiming your right. A right I don't support taking away, but one which must have some checks and balances in a diverse society of over 300 million people.

What about freedom of speech, can we limit that to people who get a license?

Let's not stop with just a license....let's register all books, articles and internet posts with the government....let's limit the number of pages you can use to write your books and articles...after all, do people really need more than a few pages to make their points....we can go on all day about limiting speech to protect people....

Yes, great point Bill. Books can be dangerous. They could instruct how to make bombs or commit suicide or they might even question government. We need to license that sort of power.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Gee, now you are willing to silence the Free Press but not to give an inch on gun control.

In fact I agree with you, in the sense that the press should self censor, and the NRA and its followers should do so too. I hope this is not to abstract for you.

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.

I've never said we should abolish all gun laws. My point is that we have thousands that are insufficiently enforced.

More and newly worded laws will be just as ineffective to stop gun violence. Putting violent felons in prison for keeps WOULD have an effect.

We have the fullest jails in the world. Seems like other countries must be doing something better.

We have the fullest jails in the world because we have 12% of our population committing half of the crimes.
Do you propose we ship that 12% to, say, Kenya, or do you think we should punish them for the crimes they commit? Maybe we should just let them go because they tend to overwhelmingly vote Democrat?

Some direct answers would be appreciated, but are unexpected.

We have more incarcerated than another Western Nation. Institutional racism has more than a little impact on our jail/prison population.

I've posted my opinion on ways and means of doing things differently, but too many pols are demagogues and too many Ernies S's believe in doing the same thing for another generation is the smart course of action.

So if Ernie S wants a direct answer it is this. Stop dong what we've been doing and begin to explore new and better ways to reduce poverty, level the playing field and reward good behavior. Don't expect a dog kicked to ever be socialized.

 

[Wry Catcher]

don't want to limit your right, I simply stated if my State had the ability to license gun owners I'd have no problem with that. It simply makes sense. You've made a number of suppositions, erroneously, on matters I don't support and fall back on not a solution, or even an effort to mitigate gun violence in America, by claiming your right. A right I don't support taking away, but one which must have some checks and balances in a diverse society of over 300 million people.

What about freedom of speech, can we limit that to people who get a license?

Let's not stop with just a license....let's register all books, articles and internet posts with the government....let's limit the number of pages you can use to write your books and articles...after all, do people really need more than a few pages to make their points....we can go on all day about limiting speech to protect people....

Yes, great point Bill. Books can be dangerous. They could instruct how to make bombs or commit suicide or they might even question government. We need to license that sort of power.

Hyperbole and sarcasm are surly substantive, at least for some. Let's continue to do the same thing over and over - eventually we'll get a different result. Isn't that right, Kaz.

 

[kaz]

don't want to limit your right, I simply stated if my State had the ability to license gun owners I'd have no problem with that. It simply makes sense. You've made a number of suppositions, erroneously, on matters I don't support and fall back on not a solution, or even an effort to mitigate gun violence in America, by claiming your right. A right I don't support taking away, but one which must have some checks and balances in a diverse society of over 300 million people.

What about freedom of speech, can we limit that to people who get a license?

Let's not stop with just a license....let's register all books, articles and internet posts with the government....let's limit the number of pages you can use to write your books and articles...after all, do people really need more than a few pages to make their points....we can go on all day about limiting speech to protect people....

Yes, great point Bill. Books can be dangerous. They could instruct how to make bombs or commit suicide or they might even question government. We need to license that sort of power.

Hyperbole and sarcasm are surly substantive, at least for some. Let's continue to do the same thing over and over - eventually we'll get a different result. Isn't that right, Kaz.

So what you have is dodge, stutter, evade. What about addressing the question? "What about freedom of speech, can we limit that to people who get a license?"

 

[saintmichaeldefendthem]

The solution...stop the media from glorifying mass shooters...don't reveal their names or their photos....anyone who commits a gun crime ....a long prison sentence.....

Problem solved....

Gee, now you are willing to silence the Free Press but not to give an inch on gun control.

In fact I agree with you, in the sense that the press should self censor, and the NRA and its followers should do so too. I hope this is not to abstract for you.

How many gun laws do we need? How many more will it take before you realize that criminals don't obey laws, no matter how many there are?

That's exactly why we should abolish speed limits.

I've never said we should abolish all gun laws. My point is that we have thousands that are insufficiently enforced.

More and newly worded laws will be just as ineffective to stop gun violence. Putting violent felons in prison for keeps WOULD have an effect.

We have the fullest jails in the world. Seems like other countries must be doing something better.

They don't have as many black people.

Just saying.