Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[2aguy]

Nope…completely different dynamic…..and not on point. When you are going for a job that is not the same thing as buying a legal product. Again, we are not cops and it is not our job to drag people to a gun store or police station to do a background check. Also, they can get by us and our background check the same way as they get past the mandatory background check at a gun store..they will simply get a friend or relative to buy the gun from you for them.?

So you think it should be legal for you to sell kids alcohol out of the back of your truck?

lol. You are retarded.

where did I say that asswipe?

It was a yes or no question.

You can sell guns out of the back of your truck without a background check of the buyer,

so shouldn't you be able to sell booze in the same manner without an ID check?

and if you sell to a minor you can be arrested. all you are looking for is age, not an entire criminal background history, That requires more money and police manpower and makes you into an amatier cop....

If you sell a gun to felon in a private transaction, can you be arrested if you were not required to determine if he was a felon?

No.

if you sell a computer to a felin convicted of child porn can you be arrested?

if you sell a car to a convicted drunk driver can you be arrested?


a private seller who sells a gun to a felon is not the felon....you can already arrest the felon since he knows he can't buy the gun...and when the felon commits a crime with the gun you can arrest him for that too..and you can arrest that felon without universal background checks.

 

[2aguy]

"Won't work because they won't...." sure sounds like an NRA argument. I am reminded of the many arguments that begin in this fashion, it won't work. But at least no one that I have discovered as yet, has used the favorite conservative argument, "Because gun control leads to communism."
Still, it might be worth a shot.

You are one of the dumber gun grabbers......please enlighten us.....name a gun control measure you like and explain how it stops any....not all, jist any criminals and mass shooters from getting a gun if they want one.


we don't just say your gun control laws won't work...we explain exactly why they won't work.....so please be more accurate in your posts....

Laws are not designed to eliminate crime. They are designed to deter it and to punish for it after the fact.

We don't have laws against rape for the purpose of ending all rape, do we?

No, the analogy is requiring all men to get a background check before they go out with any woman at any time...to make sure they are not a convicted rapist and if a woman dates a man without paying for a background check then she can be arrested for not doing it. since the goal os to stop rape...right and since most rape is date rape or aquaintance rape her not getting the background check is enabling a rapist...right?


You guys want to punish people before a crime is committed.....


do you want a law passed that requires all computer sales to be subject to a criminal background check?

do you want all car sales,to be subject to a background check for DUI convictions?

 

[2aguy]

"Won't work because they won't...." sure sounds like an NRA argument. I am reminded of the many arguments that begin in this fashion, it won't work. But at least no one that I have discovered as yet, has used the favorite conservative argument, "Because gun control leads to communism."
Still, it might be worth a shot.

You are one of the dumber gun grabbers......please enlighten us.....name a gun control measure you like and explain how it stops any....not all, jist any criminals and mass shooters from getting a gun if they want one.


we don't just say your gun control laws won't work...we explain exactly why they won't work.....so please be more accurate in your posts....

Laws are not designed to eliminate crime. They are designed to deter it and to punish for it after the fact.

We don't have laws against rape for the purpose of ending all rape, do we?

Gun licensing, gun registration and universal checks don't even deter crime......so now what?

 

[regent]

"Won't work because they won't...." sure sounds like an NRA argument. I am reminded of the many arguments that begin in this fashion, it won't work. But at least no one that I have discovered as yet, has used the favorite conservative argument, "Because gun control leads to communism."
Still, it might be worth a shot.

You are one of the dumber gun grabbers......please enlighten us.....name a gun control measure you like and explain how it stops any....not all, jist any criminals and mass shooters from getting a gun if they want one.


we don't just say your gun control laws won't work...we explain exactly why they won't work.....so please be more accurate in your posts....

Laws are not designed to eliminate crime. They are designed to deter it and to punish for it after the fact.

We don't have laws against rape for the purpose of ending all rape, do we?

Gun licensing, gun registration and universal checks don't even deter crime......so now what?

Might try the "gun control leads to communism" thing, It has worked to stop many suggested changes in our nation. In fact, I think it is a better deterrent to changing laws than most arguments on these boards. Would the NRA support amending the Second Amendment, that also might help.

 

[Ernie S.]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Start by closing the loophole that allows an individual to legally sell a gun to a felon.

It's already against the law, punishable for up to 10 years, to sell, give or transfer a gun to a felon(d) It shall be unlawful for any person to sell or otherwise dispose of any firearm or ammunition to any person knowing or having reasonable cause to believe that such person—
(1)
is under indictment for, or has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2)
is a fugitive from justice;
(3)
is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4)
has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A)
is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B)
except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
(6)
who [2] has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7)
who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) is subject to a court order that restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child, except that this paragraph shall only apply to a court order that—
(A)
was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had the opportunity to participate; and.......

18 U.S. Code § 922 (d)

 

[Ernie S.]

"Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?"

Arm every citizen when they reach school age!

I agree! All citizens have the right to keep and bear arms. Hey Chief, I'm a bit short this week and I need another weapon. How about you pony up?

 

[NYcarbineer]

So you think it should be legal for you to sell kids alcohol out of the back of your truck?

lol. You are retarded.

where did I say that asswipe?

It was a yes or no question.

You can sell guns out of the back of your truck without a background check of the buyer,

so shouldn't you be able to sell booze in the same manner without an ID check?

and if you sell to a minor you can be arrested. all you are looking for is age, not an entire criminal background history, That requires more money and police manpower and makes you into an amatier cop....

If you sell a gun to felon in a private transaction, can you be arrested if you were not required to determine if he was a felon?

No.

if you sell a computer to a felin convicted of child porn can you be arrested?

if you sell a car to a convicted drunk driver can you be arrested?


a private seller who sells a gun to a felon is not the felon....you can already arrest the felon since he knows he can't buy the gun...and when the felon commits a crime with the gun you can arrest him for that too..and you can arrest that felon without universal background checks.

The felon who cannot buy a gun at the gun dealer because he flunks the background check should not be able to go somewhere else and buy the same gun,

because the background check there need not be done.

 

[2aguy]

where did I say that asswipe?

It was a yes or no question.

You can sell guns out of the back of your truck without a background check of the buyer,

so shouldn't you be able to sell booze in the same manner without an ID check?

and if you sell to a minor you can be arrested. all you are looking for is age, not an entire criminal background history, That requires more money and police manpower and makes you into an amatier cop....

If you sell a gun to felon in a private transaction, can you be arrested if you were not required to determine if he was a felon?

No.

if you sell a computer to a felin convicted of child porn can you be arrested?

if you sell a car to a convicted drunk driver can you be arrested?


a private seller who sells a gun to a felon is not the felon....you can already arrest the felon since he knows he can't buy the gun...and when the felon commits a crime with the gun you can arrest him for that too..and you can arrest that felon without universal background checks.

The felon who cannot buy a gun at the gun dealer because he flunks the background check should not be able to go somewhere else and buy the same gun,

because the background check there need not be done.

Sorry...they get their guns from gun dealers...how? They simply get someone with a clean background check to walk in and buy the gun for them......that is the way they get their guns...they are not getting them from private sellers. So, if they get them from gun stores through people who can pass a background check, they can do the exact same thing to a private seller.

 

[2aguy]

"Won't work because they won't...." sure sounds like an NRA argument. I am reminded of the many arguments that begin in this fashion, it won't work. But at least no one that I have discovered as yet, has used the favorite conservative argument, "Because gun control leads to communism."
Still, it might be worth a shot.

You are one of the dumber gun grabbers......please enlighten us.....name a gun control measure you like and explain how it stops any....not all, jist any criminals and mass shooters from getting a gun if they want one.


we don't just say your gun control laws won't work...we explain exactly why they won't work.....so please be more accurate in your posts....

Laws are not designed to eliminate crime. They are designed to deter it and to punish for it after the fact.

We don't have laws against rape for the purpose of ending all rape, do we?

Gun licensing, gun registration and universal checks don't even deter crime......so now what?

Might try the "gun control leads to communism" thing, It has worked to stop many suggested changes in our nation. In fact, I think it is a better deterrent to changing laws than most arguments on these boards. Would the NRA support amending the Second Amendment, that also might help.

Actually, the argument is that gun control will allow the government to murder it's citizens...which is what has happened in all the countries with genocide.....Europe in Particular murdered 12 million people...who were all disarmed...

 

[Ernie S.]

where did I say that asswipe?

It was a yes or no question.

You can sell guns out of the back of your truck without a background check of the buyer,

so shouldn't you be able to sell booze in the same manner without an ID check?

and if you sell to a minor you can be arrested. all you are looking for is age, not an entire criminal background history, That requires more money and police manpower and makes you into an amatier cop....

If you sell a gun to felon in a private transaction, can you be arrested if you were not required to determine if he was a felon?

No.

if you sell a computer to a felin convicted of child porn can you be arrested?

if you sell a car to a convicted drunk driver can you be arrested?


a private seller who sells a gun to a felon is not the felon....you can already arrest the felon since he knows he can't buy the gun...and when the felon commits a crime with the gun you can arrest him for that too..and you can arrest that felon without universal background checks.

The felon who cannot buy a gun at the gun dealer because he flunks the background check should not be able to go somewhere else and buy the same gun,

because the background check there need not be done.

He can't buy a gun legally and no one can legally sell him a gun now, you fool. How many ways does that need to be said?

 

[NYcarbineer]

It was a yes or no question.

You can sell guns out of the back of your truck without a background check of the buyer,

so shouldn't you be able to sell booze in the same manner without an ID check?

and if you sell to a minor you can be arrested. all you are looking for is age, not an entire criminal background history, That requires more money and police manpower and makes you into an amatier cop....

If you sell a gun to felon in a private transaction, can you be arrested if you were not required to determine if he was a felon?

No.

if you sell a computer to a felin convicted of child porn can you be arrested?

if you sell a car to a convicted drunk driver can you be arrested?


a private seller who sells a gun to a felon is not the felon....you can already arrest the felon since he knows he can't buy the gun...and when the felon commits a crime with the gun you can arrest him for that too..and you can arrest that felon without universal background checks.

The felon who cannot buy a gun at the gun dealer because he flunks the background check should not be able to go somewhere else and buy the same gun,

because the background check there need not be done.

Sorry...they get their guns from gun dealers...how? They simply get someone with a clean background check to walk in and buy the gun for them......that is the way they get their guns...they are not getting them from private sellers. So, if they get them from gun stores through people who can pass a background check, they can do the exact same thing to a private seller.

Learn to read.

You've already stated that you think minors should be able to legally buy booze from YOU.

I think we're done here.

 

[2aguy]

and if you sell to a minor you can be arrested. all you are looking for is age, not an entire criminal background history, That requires more money and police manpower and makes you into an amatier cop....

If you sell a gun to felon in a private transaction, can you be arrested if you were not required to determine if he was a felon?

No.

if you sell a computer to a felin convicted of child porn can you be arrested?

if you sell a car to a convicted drunk driver can you be arrested?


a private seller who sells a gun to a felon is not the felon....you can already arrest the felon since he knows he can't buy the gun...and when the felon commits a crime with the gun you can arrest him for that too..and you can arrest that felon without universal background checks.

The felon who cannot buy a gun at the gun dealer because he flunks the background check should not be able to go somewhere else and buy the same gun,

because the background check there need not be done.

Sorry...they get their guns from gun dealers...how? They simply get someone with a clean background check to walk in and buy the gun for them......that is the way they get their guns...they are not getting them from private sellers. So, if they get them from gun stores through people who can pass a background check, they can do the exact same thing to a private seller.

Learn to read.

You've already stated that you think minors should be able to legally buy booze from YOU.

I think we're done here.

Nope, never said that.

 

[NYcarbineer]

"Won't work because they won't...." sure sounds like an NRA argument. I am reminded of the many arguments that begin in this fashion, it won't work. But at least no one that I have discovered as yet, has used the favorite conservative argument, "Because gun control leads to communism."
Still, it might be worth a shot.

You are one of the dumber gun grabbers......please enlighten us.....name a gun control measure you like and explain how it stops any....not all, jist any criminals and mass shooters from getting a gun if they want one.


we don't just say your gun control laws won't work...we explain exactly why they won't work.....so please be more accurate in your posts....

Laws are not designed to eliminate crime. They are designed to deter it and to punish for it after the fact.

We don't have laws against rape for the purpose of ending all rape, do we?

Gun licensing, gun registration and universal checks don't even deter crime......so now what?

Might try the "gun control leads to communism" thing, It has worked to stop many suggested changes in our nation. In fact, I think it is a better deterrent to changing laws than most arguments on these boards. Would the NRA support amending the Second Amendment, that also might help.

Actually, the argument is that gun control will allow the government to murder it's citizens...which is what has happened in all the countries with genocide.....Europe in Particular murdered 12 million people...who were all disarmed...

You're off in faked moon landing world.

 

[Fishlore]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

For starters, we need to look at how other advanced democracies regulate guns and how effective those regulations seem to be. We might also study the people and circumstances in which guns are misused to see if there are profiles or predictive patterns.

The large number of guns in circulation in the USA indeed makes the challenge harder. It has been suggested to more strictly control ammunition as one possible approach.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you sell a gun to felon in a private transaction, can you be arrested if you were not required to determine if he was a felon?

No.

if you sell a computer to a felin convicted of child porn can you be arrested?

if you sell a car to a convicted drunk driver can you be arrested?


a private seller who sells a gun to a felon is not the felon....you can already arrest the felon since he knows he can't buy the gun...and when the felon commits a crime with the gun you can arrest him for that too..and you can arrest that felon without universal background checks.

The felon who cannot buy a gun at the gun dealer because he flunks the background check should not be able to go somewhere else and buy the same gun,

because the background check there need not be done.

Sorry...they get their guns from gun dealers...how? They simply get someone with a clean background check to walk in and buy the gun for them......that is the way they get their guns...they are not getting them from private sellers. So, if they get them from gun stores through people who can pass a background check, they can do the exact same thing to a private seller.

Learn to read.

You've already stated that you think minors should be able to legally buy booze from YOU.

I think we're done here.

Nope, never said that.

Excuse me...

"You can sell guns out of the back of your truck without a background check of the buyer,

so shouldn't you be able to sell booze in the same manner without an ID check?"

YOUR ANSWER:

Yes.

 

[Lakhota]

"Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?"

Arm every citizen when they reach school age!

Yeah, baby, that'll sure make playing cowboys and Indians more fun.

 

[kaz]

Every time there's a shooting, liberals run around saying this proves we need more gun laws. I ask liberals over and over how exactly you are going to keep guns out of the hands of criminals every time you say you want more gun laws.

In particular, address given that drugs are illegal, and yet any parent knows any kid can get as much pot as they want. There are millions of guns in the US, millions more in the world. So don't just say more laws, explain how more laws are going to actually work.

So, there have been 7 shootings killing at least 10 people in the last decade. The only thing you've achieved so far is that no one was shooting back.

For starters, we need to look at how other advanced democracies regulate guns and how effective those regulations seem to be. We might also study the people and circumstances in which guns are misused to see if there are profiles or predictive patterns.

The large number of guns in circulation in the USA indeed makes the challenge harder. It has been suggested to more strictly control ammunition as one possible approach.

Is there an answer in there somewhere? Also, if you want to look at other cultures, that's fine, but typically liberals ignore the differences between us and without factoring that you learn nothing from the exercise.

 

[kaz]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Start by closing the loophole that allows an individual to legally sell a gun to a felon.

Since none of the mass shooters were stopped by that law currently…how would changing it stop them later…..

How about when you catch a felon with a gun, you just arrest them and put them in jail…the felon knows he can't have the gun……it is on him, not the seller…the seller is not a cop….

And to do that….for all violent criminals…put a tattoo on their shoulder that identifies them as unable to own or carry guns…that way a private seller just has to ask to see the shoulder…..if they see the mark, they don't sell the gun…..

No need for paperwork, licensing normal gun owners, registering guns or new background checks.

Do you think that jobseekers in places where children are involved should not be screened for a criminal record involving child abuse, pedophilia, etc.?

I mean, children still get molested. What's the sense of having laws trying to prevent it?

Laws may not end child abuse. just as laws have not stopped drunk drivers, nor those running red lights, nor any number of infractions but they may cut down on the numbers of laws broken. Is that the conservative goal now, have no laws either by not passing them or removing them cause laws don't work 100%? All that just to have guns?

Here's the obvious difference that a high school debater would recognize.

Your argument is a false analogy. Our argument is not that we should not have gun laws because criminals don't follow them, it's that they don't follow them and their victims do because we aren't criminals which harms us. That isn't applicable to any of your other analogies. You are harming victims.

I mean Jesus fucking Christ, that is so blatantly obvious. How can a supposed adult not recognize that ridiculous fallacy when you say it?

 

[kaz]

So after 606 responses on how to keep guns from criminals, how many were NRA type arguments, arguing why it can't be done and how many plans were put forth that addressed the problem?

Our point is you can't disarm criminals, Holmes, so stop disarming victims. I mean duh

 

[kaz]

"Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?"

Arm every citizen when they reach school age!

Yeah, baby, that'll sure make playing cowboys and Indians more fun.

Typical liberal. Choice isn't an option to you. Either we force citizens to not be armed or we force them to be armed. No one is proposing forcing anyone to be armed, Adolph. that's a you thing