Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

[kaz]

"Won't work because they won't...." sure sounds like an NRA argument. I am reminded of the many arguments that begin in this fashion, it won't work. But at least no one that I have discovered as yet, has used the favorite conservative argument, "Because gun control leads to communism."
Still, it might be worth a shot.

Is there anything left in your ass after all the crap you pulled out? You never seem to run out

 

[kaz]

"Won't work because they won't...." sure sounds like an NRA argument. I am reminded of the many arguments that begin in this fashion, it won't work. But at least no one that I have discovered as yet, has used the favorite conservative argument, "Because gun control leads to communism."
Still, it might be worth a shot.

There's no sound reason to adopt a law that will not achieve its stated purpose, especially when the mechanism of the law limits the rights of the law abiding.

Exactly, no matter how many times we tell him that, he's just too flat out stupid to grasp what he's being told and he repeats his fallacy ignoring it. there is no discussion here, he'd have to process our points to have that and he just doesn't

 

[kaz]

"Won't work because they won't...." sure sounds like an NRA argument. I am reminded of the many arguments that begin in this fashion, it won't work. But at least no one that I have discovered as yet, has used the favorite conservative argument, "Because gun control leads to communism."
Still, it might be worth a shot.

You are one of the dumber gun grabbers......please enlighten us.....name a gun control measure you like and explain how it stops any....not all, jist any criminals and mass shooters from getting a gun if they want one.


we don't just say your gun control laws won't work...we explain exactly why they won't work.....so please be more accurate in your posts....

Laws are not designed to eliminate crime. They are designed to deter it and to punish for it after the fact.

We don't have laws against rape for the purpose of ending all rape, do we?

Gun licensing, gun registration and universal checks don't even deter crime......so now what?

Might try the "gun control leads to communism" thing, It has worked to stop many suggested changes in our nation. In fact, I think it is a better deterrent to changing laws than most arguments on these boards. Would the NRA support amending the Second Amendment, that also might help.

Why would we want to argue that?

 

[NYcarbineer]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Start by closing the loophole that allows an individual to legally sell a gun to a felon.

Since none of the mass shooters were stopped by that law currently…how would changing it stop them later…..

How about when you catch a felon with a gun, you just arrest them and put them in jail…the felon knows he can't have the gun……it is on him, not the seller…the seller is not a cop….

And to do that….for all violent criminals…put a tattoo on their shoulder that identifies them as unable to own or carry guns…that way a private seller just has to ask to see the shoulder…..if they see the mark, they don't sell the gun…..

No need for paperwork, licensing normal gun owners, registering guns or new background checks.

Do you think that jobseekers in places where children are involved should not be screened for a criminal record involving child abuse, pedophilia, etc.?

I mean, children still get molested. What's the sense of having laws trying to prevent it?

Laws may not end child abuse. just as laws have not stopped drunk drivers, nor those running red lights, nor any number of infractions but they may cut down on the numbers of laws broken. Is that the conservative goal now, have no laws either by not passing them or removing them cause laws don't work 100%? All that just to have guns?

Here's the obvious difference that a high school debater would recognize.

Your argument is a false analogy. Our argument is not that we should not have gun laws because criminals don't follow them, it's that they don't follow them and their victims do because we aren't criminals which harms us. That isn't applicable to any of your other analogies. You are harming victims.

I mean Jesus fucking Christ, that is so blatantly obvious. How can a supposed adult not recognize that ridiculous fallacy when you say it?

Criminals don't follow any laws against what they do as criminals. You're making an argument against all laws, which makes your argument absurd.

 

[2aguy]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

Start by closing the loophole that allows an individual to legally sell a gun to a felon.

Since none of the mass shooters were stopped by that law currently…how would changing it stop them later…..

How about when you catch a felon with a gun, you just arrest them and put them in jail…the felon knows he can't have the gun……it is on him, not the seller…the seller is not a cop….

And to do that….for all violent criminals…put a tattoo on their shoulder that identifies them as unable to own or carry guns…that way a private seller just has to ask to see the shoulder…..if they see the mark, they don't sell the gun…..

No need for paperwork, licensing normal gun owners, registering guns or new background checks.

Do you think that jobseekers in places where children are involved should not be screened for a criminal record involving child abuse, pedophilia, etc.?

I mean, children still get molested. What's the sense of having laws trying to prevent it?

Laws may not end child abuse. just as laws have not stopped drunk drivers, nor those running red lights, nor any number of infractions but they may cut down on the numbers of laws broken. Is that the conservative goal now, have no laws either by not passing them or removing them cause laws don't work 100%? All that just to have guns?

Here's the obvious difference that a high school debater would recognize.

Your argument is a false analogy. Our argument is not that we should not have gun laws because criminals don't follow them, it's that they don't follow them and their victims do because we aren't criminals which harms us. That isn't applicable to any of your other analogies. You are harming victims.

I mean Jesus fucking Christ, that is so blatantly obvious. How can a supposed adult not recognize that ridiculous fallacy when you say it?

Criminals don't follow any laws against what they do as criminals. You're making an argument against all laws, which makes your argument absurd.

no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. That is exactly what laws are designed to do.....you guys...you believe you prevent the criminal from committing the crime in the first place...which is what each one of your gun control policies is aimed at. and since laws don't prevent law breaking, they only punish those who decide to break the law....your policies will never work.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Could try Greg Bear's idea in his novel "Eon" and make it legal, and encourage criminals to hunt and kill each other. Offer complete legality and some financial incentive. Solve the problem for us.

 

[Wildman]

Keeping guns from criminals - liberals, what is your plan?

whine, cry, stomp feet, hold breath, threaten to run away from home, pee their panties, wet the bed every night, throw another 4 year old childish tantrum, refuse to take out the trash as mother asked them to do, call 911 and claim abuse, shoot spit wads at the teacher.., the list is nearly endless if their MESSiah does not issue a dump truck full of EO's restricting the legal sale of guns, banning guns from private sales, once more, the list is endless.

demoscum/libertards have no solution other than what i have listed above.

 

[kaz]

Since none of the mass shooters were stopped by that law currently…how would changing it stop them later…..

How about when you catch a felon with a gun, you just arrest them and put them in jail…the felon knows he can't have the gun……it is on him, not the seller…the seller is not a cop….

And to do that….for all violent criminals…put a tattoo on their shoulder that identifies them as unable to own or carry guns…that way a private seller just has to ask to see the shoulder…..if they see the mark, they don't sell the gun…..

No need for paperwork, licensing normal gun owners, registering guns or new background checks.

Do you think that jobseekers in places where children are involved should not be screened for a criminal record involving child abuse, pedophilia, etc.?

I mean, children still get molested. What's the sense of having laws trying to prevent it?

Laws may not end child abuse. just as laws have not stopped drunk drivers, nor those running red lights, nor any number of infractions but they may cut down on the numbers of laws broken. Is that the conservative goal now, have no laws either by not passing them or removing them cause laws don't work 100%? All that just to have guns?

Here's the obvious difference that a high school debater would recognize.

Your argument is a false analogy. Our argument is not that we should not have gun laws because criminals don't follow them, it's that they don't follow them and their victims do because we aren't criminals which harms us. That isn't applicable to any of your other analogies. You are harming victims.

I mean Jesus fucking Christ, that is so blatantly obvious. How can a supposed adult not recognize that ridiculous fallacy when you say it?

Criminals don't follow any laws against what they do as criminals. You're making an argument against all laws, which makes your argument absurd.

no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. That is exactly what laws are designed to do.....you guys...you believe you prevent the criminal from committing the crime in the first place...which is what each one of your gun control policies is aimed at. and since laws don't prevent law breaking, they only punish those who decide to break the law....your policies will never work.

I have the dumb ass on ignore, so I only saw this when you responded.

He didn't grasp my post, I didn't say what he said I said at all. In fact, what he said I said directly contradicted what I actually said. He's a dumb ass. His only interest is arguing that anyone not a left wing leftist like him is a "Republican." He's a useless idiot, I enjoy only having to see his crap when someone quotes the loser

 

[NYcarbineer]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you think the felon just out of jail for armed robbery should be able to buy his next gun for his next robbery,

no questions asked, and let the law deal with him after the fact of his next bank robbery.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you don't think the background of a convicted child molester should be checked before he's given a job around children,

you think we should just wait until he molests his next child at that job and then punish him.

 

[2aguy]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you think the felon just out of jail for armed robbery should be able to buy his next gun for his next robbery,

no questions asked, and let the law deal with him after the fact of his next bank robbery.

Nope.....I gave you my actual solution put a tattoo on his shoulder...so anyone selling a gun can easily see he can't buy one. That actually works. And it doesn't require a universal background check. I have also said I don't mind current background checks. I oppose universal background checks because 1) they need universal gun registration to work 2) they will be bypassed the same way that current mandated, federal background checks can be bypassed, your felon just out of jail will steal a gun or get a friend or family member with a clean background to by the gun for him, or he will just by an already illegally acquired gun from another criminal.

I support current background checks because you guys want them...and I will give in to that much....but universal background checks go too far.....and are just as useless as current background checks.

And yes...the best way to stop him is to lock him up for a long time when you catch him the first time using a gun to commit a crime.

Again......put a tattoo on the shoulder of a convicted felon and then you will immediately know he can't have a gun.....he will never be able to buy a gun by himself ever again...not in a gun store, not at a gun show and not in a private sale.

And if someone sells a gun to a felon, as a single item....that should be a fine, not a crime...just like selling pot.

 

[2aguy]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you don't think the background of a convicted child molester should be checked before he's given a job around children,

you think we should just wait until he molests his next child at that job and then punish him.

Nope, child molestors should get life sentences since they cannot control their urge to hurt children. They should never be released into the population ever again....kind of solves that problem.

But with the laws we have, yes, we need to do a background check on employees....to make sure they aren't criminals.

Gun background checks are different. Guns are a legal product. It is against the law for felons to own or carry them and they can already be arrested for that.

Selling a gun is no different than selling a car or a computer...all are legal products.

Do you want all computer sales to require a criminal background check before you can buy them to include, ipads, notebooks, and any device that can be hooked up to the internet........to be sure that you are not selling a computer to a child porn criminal, a convicted hacker or a computer identity theft criminal, a convicted criminal who stole state secrets via computer hacking....

If you support background checks on guns you have to support background checks for computers since great harm is done with them.....you can hack state secrets and endanger lives...right? or children can be exploited and murdered using computers...right?

And cars...Almost every crime needs a car to be successful....all mass shooters take cars to their shooting sites, all drug dealers transport their drugs in cars, and all rapists and murderers use cars..right?

Not to forget drunk drivers....right?

So you have to support criminal background checks on all car purchases to ensure that drunk drivers are not buying the car...right?

If you don't support background check on these items you are a hypocrite....

 

[NYcarbineer]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you think the felon just out of jail for armed robbery should be able to buy his next gun for his next robbery,

no questions asked, and let the law deal with him after the fact of his next bank robbery.

Nope.....I gave you my actual solution put a tattoo on his shoulder...so anyone selling a gun can easily see he can't buy one. That actually works. And it doesn't require a universal background check. I have also said I don't mind current background checks. I oppose universal background checks because 1) they need universal gun registration to work 2) they will be bypassed the same way that current mandated, federal background checks can be bypassed, your felon just out of jail will steal a gun or get a friend or family member with a clean background to by the gun for him, or he will just by an already illegally acquired gun from another criminal.

I support current background checks because you guys want them...and I will give in to that much....but universal background checks go too far.....and are just as useless as current background checks.

And yes...the best way to stop him is to lock him up for a long time when you catch him the first time using a gun to commit a crime.

Again......put a tattoo on the shoulder of a convicted felon and then you will immediately know he can't have a gun.....he will never be able to buy a gun by himself ever again...not in a gun store, not at a gun show and not in a private sale.

And if someone sells a gun to a felon, as a single item....that should be a fine, not a crime...just like selling pot.

Please. You people come up with the damnedest shit to defend an indefensible position.

 

[NYcarbineer]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you don't think the background of a convicted child molester should be checked before he's given a job around children,

you think we should just wait until he molests his next child at that job and then punish him.

Nope, child molestors should get life sentences since they cannot control their urge to hurt children. They should never be released into the population ever again....kind of solves that problem.

But with the laws we have, yes, we need to do a background check on employees....to make sure they aren't criminals.

.

But we don't need background checks for gun buying to make sure the buyer isn't a criminal...

jesus you are off the deep end.

 

[2aguy]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you don't think the background of a convicted child molester should be checked before he's given a job around children,

you think we should just wait until he molests his next child at that job and then punish him.

Nope, child molestors should get life sentences since they cannot control their urge to hurt children. They should never be released into the population ever again....kind of solves that problem.

But with the laws we have, yes, we need to do a background check on employees....to make sure they aren't criminals.

.

But we don't need background checks for gun buying to make sure the buyer isn't a criminal...

jesus you are off the deep end.

We have background checks already....and they don't work. Universal background checks won't work either.

My idea...putting a tattoo on the shoulder of convicted felons who can never own a gun...will work everytime....

(Of course they will just steal the gun, get a straw purchaser or buy the gun illegally)

I am not going to let you anti gun extremists set up the need for universal registration of gun owners....and that is all universal background checks are meant to do...since again, they will not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns....

 

[NYcarbineer]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you don't think the background of a convicted child molester should be checked before he's given a job around children,

you think we should just wait until he molests his next child at that job and then punish him.

Nope, child molestors should get life sentences since they cannot control their urge to hurt children. They should never be released into the population ever again....kind of solves that problem.

But with the laws we have, yes, we need to do a background check on employees....to make sure they aren't criminals.

.

But we don't need background checks for gun buying to make sure the buyer isn't a criminal...

jesus you are off the deep end.

We have background checks already....and they don't work. Universal background checks won't work either.

My idea...putting a tattoo on the shoulder of convicted felons who can never own a gun...will work everytime....

(Of course they will just steal the gun, get a straw purchaser or buy the gun illegally)

I am not going to let you anti gun extremists set up the need for universal registration of gun owners....and that is all universal background checks are meant to do...since again, they will not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns....

So why require ID to vote when fake ID can be obtained?

 

[NYcarbineer]

[

(Of course they will just steal the gun, get a straw purchaser or buy the gun illegally)

...

So the problem of the straw purchaser is solved by just letting anyone who comes along buy a gun, no questions asked....

christ.

 

[2aguy]

[


no, not even close....we make the srgument that criminal activity should be stopped when the criminal is caught breaking the law and then punished. .

So you don't think the background of a convicted child molester should be checked before he's given a job around children,

you think we should just wait until he molests his next child at that job and then punish him.

Nope, child molestors should get life sentences since they cannot control their urge to hurt children. They should never be released into the population ever again....kind of solves that problem.

But with the laws we have, yes, we need to do a background check on employees....to make sure they aren't criminals.

.

But we don't need background checks for gun buying to make sure the buyer isn't a criminal...

jesus you are off the deep end.

We have background checks already....and they don't work. Universal background checks won't work either.

My idea...putting a tattoo on the shoulder of convicted felons who can never own a gun...will work everytime....

(Of course they will just steal the gun, get a straw purchaser or buy the gun illegally)

I am not going to let you anti gun extremists set up the need for universal registration of gun owners....and that is all universal background checks are meant to do...since again, they will not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns....

So why require ID to vote when fake ID can be obtained?

I have no problem showing a photo I.D. to buy a gun to make sure you are you.....


Because you have to at least show you are you.....notice they aren't insisting on a criminal background check to vote...right.....thanks for your posts since this just came to me........

If you are consistent....then you would require a criminal background check before you can vote since felons are not allowed to vote..........right?

Do you support requiring that each citizen pass a background check to vote....?

 

[2aguy]

[

(Of course they will just steal the gun, get a straw purchaser or buy the gun illegally)

...

So the problem of the straw purchaser is solved by just letting anyone who comes along buy a gun, no questions asked....

christ.

Did I say that. The only way to solve the straw purchaser...is to catch the criminal and get him to turn on his supplier. If the supplier is a big enough gun trafficker...you do what we always do in criminal matters...you set up a sting, and arrest that supplier...that way you concentrate on the actual problem...not the guy who sells a gun to his neighbor or the widow who gives the dead husbands guns to his children.

Your universal background check targets the guy who sells his gun to his family member or a freind, since he now has to drag them in to do a background check....or the widow who gives her dead husbands guns to her kids.......

And it does nothing to stop the criminals...since as you pointed out, the criminals will simply get a straw purchaser and not bother with the universal background check.

We just had an arms trafficker in chicago get sentenced....he brought 43 guns into chicago and tried to sell them to criminals....how did the police catch him......the old fashioned way...and informant....

And that is all you need to do now....old fashioned police work to get straw purchasers and sellers

The real problem.....this guy selling 43 guns to criminals.....he got sentenced to 3 years....3 years...and he will be out in 2....that is the problem....he should get 10 years for each gun.....do that...and you will reduce the gun murder rate......as you guys say, you won't get rid of it completely, but you will narrow it down to the really evil types.

 

[NYcarbineer]

So you don't think the background of a convicted child molester should be checked before he's given a job around children,

you think we should just wait until he molests his next child at that job and then punish him.

Nope, child molestors should get life sentences since they cannot control their urge to hurt children. They should never be released into the population ever again....kind of solves that problem.

But with the laws we have, yes, we need to do a background check on employees....to make sure they aren't criminals.

.

But we don't need background checks for gun buying to make sure the buyer isn't a criminal...

jesus you are off the deep end.

We have background checks already....and they don't work. Universal background checks won't work either.

My idea...putting a tattoo on the shoulder of convicted felons who can never own a gun...will work everytime....

(Of course they will just steal the gun, get a straw purchaser or buy the gun illegally)

I am not going to let you anti gun extremists set up the need for universal registration of gun owners....and that is all universal background checks are meant to do...since again, they will not stop criminals or mass shooters from getting guns....

So why require ID to vote when fake ID can be obtained?

I have no problem showing a photo I.D. to buy a gun to make sure you are you.....


Because you have to at least show you are you.....notice they aren't insisting on a criminal background check to vote...right.....thanks for your posts since this just came to me........

If you are consistent....then you would require a criminal background check before you can vote since felons are not allowed to vote..........right?

Do you support requiring that each citizen pass a background check to vote....?

You show ID when you vote to confirm you're the person who is REGISTERED to vote.

There is no federal law against felons voting. There is against felons buying guns.