Killer sets trap, says its "stand your ground"

[Vandalshandle]

AS much as the vigilantly committee on this thread is all in favor of giving this home owner the "Citizen of the Year" award for enticing an unarmed teenager into entering his garage to steal a purse, so that he could shoot him, he is going to be convicted of one form of homicide or another. No state allows lethal force against someone for that reason, no matter what I have seen posted here. In addition, there are numerous reasons why someone would enter the garage for other reasons. My neighbor entered my garage last month to shut it, because I had left home, having forgotten to do that. I have entered my neighbor's garage to return a tool he had loaned me. I had a teenager enter my kitchen and steal a 6 pack of beer on the counter, because he saw it while walking down the street to a party, and decided to snatch it. Shooting a teenaged kid to death for that is not legal anywhere. Moore importantly to me, anyway, is how anyone could do something like that, leaving a kid in his grave and his family heart broken, and then look into the mirror at himself for the rest of his life is beyond my understanding. The law puts a burden on adults not to have an attractive hazard on their property. For example, you would be consider to have contributed to the death of a neighborhood kid who drowned in your swimming pool if you had left the gate open. It makes one wonder what the penalty this guy would have meted out for a kid walking on his grass...just maiming?

 

[Skull Pilot]

AS much as the vigilantly committee on this thread is all in favor of giving this home owner the "Citizen of the Year" award for enticing an unarmed teenager into entering his garage to steal a purse, so that he could shoot him, he is going to be convicted of one form of homicide or another. No state allows lethal force against someone for that reason, no matter what I have seen posted here. In addition, there are numerous reasons why someone would enter the garage for other reasons. My neighbor entered my garage last month to shut it, because I had left home, having forgotten to do that. I have entered my neighbor's garage to return a tool he had loaned me. I had a teenager enter my kitchen and steal a 6 pack of beer on the counter, because he saw it while walking down the street to a party, and decided to snatch it. Shooting a teenaged kid to death for that is not legal anywhere. Moore importantly to me, anyway, is how anyone could do something like that, leaving a kid in his grave and his family heart broken, and then look into the mirror at himself for the rest of his life is beyond my understanding. The law puts a burden on adults not to have an attractive hazard on their property. For example, you would be consider to have contributed to the death of a neighborhood kid who drowned in your swimming pool if you had left the gate open. It makes one wonder what the penalty this guy would have meted out for a kid walking on his grass...just maiming?

Enticing?

I have forgotten to close my barn door on occasion and I have thousands of dollars worth of tools inside.

If some scumbag piece of shit tries to steal anything you think it's my fault?

If I caught someone in there I would most likely feel compelled to defend myself because there is only one way out.

If you don't want to take the chance of getting shot you do not ever walk into someone else's home uninvited. I don't care if every door and window in the place is wide open and there's a stack on 20s on the table you just don't walk in uninvited. PERIOD.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

 

[eflatminor]

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this guy's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this thief's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

If...a big if...this guy "set a trap", that is indeed wrong, but let's not forget the motherfucker that was attempting take what didn't belong to him...m'kay?

Oh. Sorry. I didn't know that stealing a purse is a capital offense...

Someone needs a dictionary. One would have to be convicted of a crime to be considered guilty of a capital offense and therefore capital punishment.

A homeowner protecting his property hasn't a damn thing to do with criminal convictions. We have a right to protect ourselves, our families and our property. You're free to hand it over and hope for the best.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

If there is even a chance they would harm you you defend defend yourself.

Anyone willing to walk into my house uninvited when I am home is prepared to confront me.

If they weren't they wouldn't break in while I was home.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

If there is even a chance they would harm you you defend defend yourself.

Anyone willing to walk into my house uninvited when I am home is prepared to confront me.

If they weren't they wouldn't break in while I was home.

Details. You must have details. Does this person have a gun pointed at you? Are they charging you with a knife or other weapon? If not...and you have a gun in your hand....you can probably defend yourself without firing the weapon. Isn't that preferable?

That is a yes or no question, by the way.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Man Who Set A Trap To Kill 17-Year-Old Intruder Invokes Stand Your Ground-Like Defense | ThinkProgress

Seventeen-year-old Diren Dede lost his life Sunday, while in Missoula, Montana on a high school exchange program from Germany. He was shot dead at the home of Markus Kaarma, after Kaarma set a trap for intruders by intentionally leaving the garage open and placing a purse in clear view.

After motion sensors detected someone in the garage, Kaarma shot Dede. And while he has since been charged with first degree murder, he is already invoking a Stand Your Ground-like defense.

Kaarma is not the first to claim he was justified in killing someone after setting a trap. A Minnesota jury rejected Byron Smith’s argument that he was standing his ground when he made it look as though he wasn’t home, and waited in the basement with food and water until two teen intruders descended, and he shot them dead. Audio recorded by Smith depicted him toying with the victims after he shot them, according to the New York Daily News, saying “you’re dead.” He also likened them to “vermin.”

Like we didn't see this coming.

Its a shame that we value things more than we value human lives.

I don't want my belongings stolen but no way is my TV worth more than a human life.

Cops set traps all the time. If you're not a thief you've got nothing to worry about.
I say fuckem....

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

in the news stories you have no idea why the kid went into the garage. he may well have been intending to burglarize the place. he may not have..

Pretty stupid thing to do. Trespassing and all.

you've never closed your neighbor's garage door when they accidentally left it open at night?
you're right, i don't. just as the shooter had no idea what was in the mind of the kid, because he blindly shot into the dark.

your material possessions are not worth the life of anyone

Bullshit. I have the right to defend my property. Don't steal shit and you won't have a problem. You're free to allow thugs to take from you but you have no right to impose that nonsense on others.

it's not nonsense. your property is not worth another human life. it just isn't. your property can be replaced. or has nobody told you that they're just things and you can't take it with you?

Of course you cant take it with you. Just ask the guy who got shot........

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this guy's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this thief's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

If...a big if...this guy "set a trap", that is indeed wrong, but let's not forget the motherfucker that was attempting take what didn't belong to him...m'kay?

Oh. Sorry. I didn't know that stealing a purse is a capital offense...

It is in my law book.

 

[Shaitra]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

If there is even a chance they would harm you you defend defend yourself.

Anyone willing to walk into my house uninvited when I am home is prepared to confront me.

If they weren't they wouldn't break in while I was home.

Details. You must have details. Does this person have a gun pointed at you? Are they charging you with a knife or other weapon? If not...and you have a gun in your hand....you can probably defend yourself without firing the weapon. Isn't that preferable?

That is a yes or no question, by the way.

What legitimate reason would someone have for breaking into another person's home while they are home?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Man Who Set A Trap To Kill 17-Year-Old Intruder Invokes Stand Your Ground-Like Defense | ThinkProgress

Seventeen-year-old Diren Dede lost his life Sunday, while in Missoula, Montana on a high school exchange program from Germany. He was shot dead at the home of Markus Kaarma, after Kaarma set a trap for intruders by intentionally leaving the garage open and placing a purse in clear view.

After motion sensors detected someone in the garage, Kaarma shot Dede. And while he has since been charged with first degree murder, he is already invoking a Stand Your Ground-like defense.

Kaarma is not the first to claim he was justified in killing someone after setting a trap. A Minnesota jury rejected Byron Smith’s argument that he was standing his ground when he made it look as though he wasn’t home, and waited in the basement with food and water until two teen intruders descended, and he shot them dead. Audio recorded by Smith depicted him toying with the victims after he shot them, according to the New York Daily News, saying “you’re dead.” He also likened them to “vermin.”

Like we didn't see this coming.

Its a shame that we value things more than we value human lives.

I don't want my belongings stolen but no way is my TV worth more than a human life.

Next it will be psychos inviting people into their house, killing them, and claiming they broke in.

People have been armed for a loooooong time. If it hasn't been a big problem yet,I find it unlikely to become one just on your say so.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If there is even a chance they would harm you you defend defend yourself.

Anyone willing to walk into my house uninvited when I am home is prepared to confront me.

If they weren't they wouldn't break in while I was home.

Details. You must have details. Does this person have a gun pointed at you? Are they charging you with a knife or other weapon? If not...and you have a gun in your hand....you can probably defend yourself without firing the weapon. Isn't that preferable?

That is a yes or no question, by the way.

What legitimate reason would someone have for breaking into another person's home while they are home?

None. Nobody ever said they did. You got little birdies whispering shit in your ear?

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

So you're going to wait until he pulls his pistol before you grab your wiffle ball bat?

 

[Vandalshandle]

That anyone would even ATTEMPT to defend this thief's despicable behavior boggles my mind.

If...a big if...this guy "set a trap", that is indeed wrong, but let's not forget the motherfucker that was attempting take what didn't belong to him...m'kay?

Oh. Sorry. I didn't know that stealing a purse is a capital offense...

Someone needs a dictionary. One would have to be convicted of a crime to be considered guilty of a capital offense and therefore capital punishment.

A homeowner protecting his property hasn't a damn thing to do with criminal convictions. We have a right to protect ourselves, our families and our property. You're free to hand it over and hope for the best.

And you think that killing an unarmed teenager in your garage is something the law will back you on? Nope. The law will see you as guilty of manslaughter at the very least. If you set and baited a trap, it would be more likely first or second degree murder.
I don't give a shit about your desire to blow someone away because they invaded your territorial urine marked space. What matters to me is the law, and this guy is going to be convicted.

 

[Vandalshandle]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

If there is even a chance they would harm you you defend defend yourself.

Anyone willing to walk into my house uninvited when I am home is prepared to confront me.

If they weren't they wouldn't break in while I was home.

That's odd, Skull, because I am on a first responder team, and we do it all the time. If a deputy is with us, he may break down the door, with probable cause. This is how we rescue elderly people who live alone, and have fallen and broken their hip. Kudos for you for threatening to shoot paramedics who are trying to save you. Since I have been on this team, about a year and a half, that is how we found and removed three dead bodies in 18 months in this retirement community. If you are the kind of person that you say you are, and put a notice to that effect on your front door, as a first responder, I would not open you door even if your house was on fire, unless an armed deputy showed up to go in instead. And, if it took an extra 15 minutes for him to get there, well, then so be it. I'm sure as hell not going to risk my life tio save your sorry ass. I'm a volunteer, and Zero pay is not enough for that.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Man Who Set A Trap To Kill 17-Year-Old Intruder Invokes Stand Your Ground-Like Defense | ThinkProgress



Like we didn't see this coming.

Its a shame that we value things more than we value human lives.

I don't want my belongings stolen but no way is my TV worth more than a human life.

It is not about a tv. It is about the sanctity of your home. It is about not feeling violated. It is about feeling safe in your own home. If you can't feel safe in your home, where will you feel safe?

I don't agree with the baiting. But if the person doesn't take the bait, a.k.a. act like a criminal, nothing bad happens.

The garage scenario is an example why I am armed within the home. For today, the Bersa Thunder is the carry choice that will be on my side in a Crossbreed Supertuck

Walking in my garage will get you an introduction

-Geaux

I'm partial to the FNX-45 Tactical for the home. Fifteen rounds in the mag and one in the pipe.
Whats not to like?
And the LCP .380 with the LaserMax is about the size of my wallet. In fact it'll fit in the watch pocket of a pair of Levi's right up to the grip. Dont even need a holster.

 

[LoneLaugher]

It is not about a tv. It is about the sanctity of your home. It is about not feeling violated. It is about feeling safe in your own home. If you can't feel safe in your home, where will you feel safe?

I don't agree with the baiting. But if the person doesn't take the bait, a.k.a. act like a criminal, nothing bad happens.

The garage scenario is an example why I am armed within the home. For today, the Bersa Thunder is the carry choice that will be on my side in a Crossbreed Supertuck

Walking in my garage will get you an introduction

-Geaux

I'm partial to the FNX-45 Tactical for the home. Fifteen rounds in the mag and one in the pipe.
Whats not to like?
And the LCP .380 with the LaserMax is about the size of my wallet. In fact it'll fit in the watch pocket of a pair of Levi's right up to the grip. Dont even need a holster.

Oooooh! Badass alert!

 

[LoneLaugher]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

So you're going to wait until he pulls his pistol before you grab your wiffle ball bat?

That's a good nutter! Assume that the person you are talking to.....being a lib....does not have a firearm. Idiot.

I would wait until I was 100% certain. That is what I would do. You, being an idiot, would not. I get it.

 

[Brain357]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

If there is even a chance they would harm you you defend defend yourself.

Anyone willing to walk into my house uninvited when I am home is prepared to confront me.

If they weren't they wouldn't break in while I was home.

You seem really scared like a bunny.

 

[CaféAuLait]

Shit....every nutter here thinks they are Rambo and life is a movie set.

You don't shoot someone......anyone.....unless you are 100% ( not 99%) sure that they are going to harm you physically.....and there is no other option available for defending yourself.

If there is even a chance they would harm you you defend defend yourself.

Anyone willing to walk into my house uninvited when I am home is prepared to confront me.

If they weren't they wouldn't break in while I was home.

You seem really scared like a bunny.

Seriously? Scared like a bunny? How many people break into your home to do something good? How long are you willing to wait to see if they are there to kill you are rape your kids or wife?

I'm not waiting, and I'm certainly not setting traps, you break into my home, I'm not going to guess why you are there. I will assume you are there to hurt me or my family.

Its really quite simple. Stay the fuck out of my house and don't break in and you have nothing to worry about.