Krugman kicks von Mises acolyte while he's down

[Kimura]

what? Spending from tax revenue is not counterfeiting, spending from printing is counterfeiting. Get it now?

That's not how it works. Under our fiat system, spending precedes taxation. All tax payments and bond purchases are made with $$$ that is already spent. If this wasn't the case, there'd be ZERO $$$$ to purchase Treasuries or any $$$$ to pay your tax obligations.

The settlement of bond auctions and tax payments to Treasury only occur through reserve accounts. The balances in these reserve accounts emanate from previous government deficits from FED loans or credits to these reserve accounts. These FED loans can be made by the purchase of private securities, loans, and repos.

It all boils down to spending first. Get it now?

dear, the issue is whether the govt intends to cover its spending from taxes or from merely printing more money. I'm not surprised that a progressive libertarian would be equally confused about everything!

All government spending is "printing money". I just explained it to you. I'm not the one confused here.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

That's not how it works. Under our fiat system, spending precedes taxation. All tax payments and bond purchases are made with $$$ that is already spent. If this wasn't the case, there'd be ZERO $$$$ to purchase Treasuries or any $$$$ to pay your tax obligations.

The settlement of bond auctions and tax payments to Treasury only occur through reserve accounts. The balances in these reserve accounts emanate from previous government deficits from FED loans or credits to these reserve accounts. These FED loans can be made by the purchase of private securities, loans, and repos.

It all boils down to spending first. Get it now?

dear, the issue is whether the govt intends to cover its spending from taxes or from merely printing more money. I'm not surprised that a progressive libertarian would be equally confused about everything!

All government spending is "printing money". I just explained it to you. I'm not the one confused here.

then why do they tax us??

 

[Kimura]

dear, the issue is whether the govt intends to cover its spending from taxes or from merely printing more money. I'm not surprised that a progressive libertarian would be equally confused about everything!

All government spending is "printing money". I just explained it to you. I'm not the one confused here.

then why do they tax us??

Good question.


#1 - Taxes regulate aggregate demand. Like I explained in the money supply thread, taxes would constantly have to increase with spending to control inflation if all else remained equal. If the federal government keeps spending without taxation, we'd see an eventual rise in the general price level. Inflation and budget deficits aren't always connected, btw. A perfect example would a high savings rate. If people don't spend, and they hoard $$$$, we end up with a deflationary scenario.

#2 - Taxes create demand for the national unit of account (dollars in the good ol' U S of A). It guarantees all assets, debts and prices are denominated in US Dollars.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

All government spending is "printing money". I just explained it to you. I'm not the one confused here.

then why do they tax us??

Good question.


.

dear, they tax us so they have money to spend. See why we say slow?

 

[Kimura]

then why do they tax us??

Good question.


.

dear, they tax us so they have money to spend. See why we say slow?

Um...no they don't. Taxes aren't required for revenue as I just explained.

And for the third time, stop referring to me as dear, unless you're a 25 year-old-blond yoga instructor and we've had a few cocktails.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Taxes aren't required for revenue.

what are they required for??

Tax revenue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_revenue
Wikipedia
Tax revenue is the income that is gained by governments through taxation.

see why we say slow??

 

[Kimura]

Taxes aren't required for revenue.

what are they required for??

Tax revenue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_revenue
Wikipedia
Tax revenue is the income that is gained by governments through taxation.

see why we say slow??

That's needs to be updated, so do most of the macro textbooks. Tax and spend, as an operational reality, went out the window when Nixon closed the gold window.

The government doesn't need to tax back what it issues as the monopoly issuer of the currency. It spends by crediting private banks accounts.

 

[Dot Com]

EdwardBaiamonte should have quit when he was behind.

As to the OP, yeah- Krugman "nailed it"

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Taxes aren't required for revenue.

what are they required for??

Tax revenue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_revenue
Wikipedia
Tax revenue is the income that is gained by governments through taxation.

see why we say slow??

That's needs to be updated, so do most of the macro textbooks.

dear, your brain needs to be updated not the entire world. I see how you got to be an uber confused progressive libertarian.


What are the federal government's sources of revenue?
www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/.../revenue.cf...
Tax Policy Center
Sep 13, 2011 - Individual income taxes and payroll taxes now account for four out of every five federal revenue dollars. Corporate income taxes contribute ...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

First Ryan (R) put forward his budget that was universally decried/derided by the Catholic church for punishing the Poor while simultaneously showering tax cuts on the Rich.

THEN, the von Mises acolyte ran on the last Repub ticket and lost

Now Krugman calls him out for his rw/psychotic libertarian failings:


Fiscal Flimflam, Revisited
(snip)

As I and others pointed out at the time, when you looked at the substance of what Ryan was proposing, it didn’t at all match up to his supposed deep concern over the deficit. Specifically, in the first decade he proposed savage cuts in aid to the poor, but he also proposed huge tax cuts for the rich — and the tax cuts for the rich were bigger than the aid cuts for the poor, so that the specifics of the plan were actually deficit-increasing, not deficit-reducing.

So how did he claim otherwise? By declaring that he would make his tax cuts deficit-neutral by closing loopholes — but he refused to say anything about which loopholes he would close; and by claiming that he would make huge cuts in discretionary spending, again without specifying what he would cut. So the budget was essentially a con job.

Way to go Paul Keep exposing those rw snake oil salesmen who just happen to be, sadly, in republican leadership positions

Krugman is funny. Especially when his eyes get all wide and the spit starts flying.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Taxes aren't required for revenue.

what are they required for??

Tax revenue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_revenue
Wikipedia
Tax revenue is the income that is gained by governments through taxation.

see why we say slow??

That's needs to be updated, so do most of the macro textbooks. Tax and spend, as an operational reality, went out the window when Nixon closed the gold window.

The government doesn't need to tax back what it issues as the monopoly issuer of the currency. It spends by crediting private banks accounts.

Of course, the printing press is a great way to finance government.
Until the day it isn't.

 

[Kimura]

what are they required for??

Tax revenue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_revenue
Wikipedia
Tax revenue is the income that is gained by governments through taxation.

see why we say slow??

That's needs to be updated, so do most of the macro textbooks. Tax and spend, as an operational reality, went out the window when Nixon closed the gold window.

The government doesn't need to tax back what it issues as the monopoly issuer of the currency. It spends by crediting private banks accounts.

Of course, the printing press is a great way to finance government.
Until the day it isn't.

Again, it's all "printing $$$$", regardless of budgetary outcomes, due to the mechanics of reserve accounts and the settlement of bond auctions.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

That's needs to be updated, so do most of the macro textbooks. Tax and spend, as an operational reality, went out the window when Nixon closed the gold window.

The government doesn't need to tax back what it issues as the monopoly issuer of the currency. It spends by crediting private banks accounts.

Of course, the printing press is a great way to finance government.
Until the day it isn't.

Again, it's all "printing $$$$", regardless of budgetary outcomes, due to the mechanics of reserve accounts and the settlement of bond auctions.

dear you didn't say what "it's" is. do you know why?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

That's needs to be updated, so do most of the macro textbooks. Tax and spend, as an operational reality, went out the window when Nixon closed the gold window.

The government doesn't need to tax back what it issues as the monopoly issuer of the currency. It spends by crediting private banks accounts.

Of course, the printing press is a great way to finance government.
Until the day it isn't.

Again, it's all "printing $$$$", regardless of budgetary outcomes, due to the mechanics of reserve accounts and the settlement of bond auctions.

It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed.

 

[Kimura]

Of course, the printing press is a great way to finance government.
Until the day it isn't.

Again, it's all "printing $$$$", regardless of budgetary outcomes, due to the mechanics of reserve accounts and the settlement of bond auctions.

It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed.

Not really, you seemed confused again.

FED injections precede bond offerings and taxes.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Of course, the printing press is a great way to finance government.
Until the day it isn't.

Again, it's all "printing $$$$", regardless of budgetary outcomes, due to the mechanics of reserve accounts and the settlement of bond auctions.

It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed.

Kimura may be the only person in world who doesnt know that, but then he's a libertarian progressive

 

[Kimura]

Again, it's all "printing $$$$", regardless of budgetary outcomes, due to the mechanics of reserve accounts and the settlement of bond auctions.

It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed.

Kimura may be the only person in world who doesnt know that, but then he's a libertarian progressive

Like I said, FED injections precede taxes and bond offerings.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Again, it's all "printing $$$$", regardless of budgetary outcomes, due to the mechanics of reserve accounts and the settlement of bond auctions.

It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed.

Not really, you seemed confused again.

FED injections precede bond offerings and taxes.

Sometimes the Fed goes long periods without injecting liquidity.

 

[Kimura]

It's not all printing money.
The only part that is printing money is spending more than you taxed and borrowed.

Not really, you seemed confused again.

FED injections precede bond offerings and taxes.

Sometimes the Fed goes long periods without injecting liquidity.

Think of it this way: tax payments and bond sales lead to monetary destruction. In a similar fashion, for example, the way your loan repayments will destroy bank deposits.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Not really, you seemed confused again.

FED injections precede bond offerings and taxes.

Sometimes the Fed goes long periods without injecting liquidity.

Think of it this way: tax payments and bond sales lead to monetary destruction. In a similar fashion, for example, your loan repayments will destroy bank deposits.

Think of it this way, the government isn't allowed to print money to pay for spending.
Currently.