Kyle Rittenhouse trial...already disproving SO MANY LIES from the left

[AZrailwhale]

Grosskreutz.

And the skateboard guy. If he had survived he could have been charged with ADW. He used that skateboard as a club.

 

[emilynghiem]

You are confused.

Kyle loved Kenosha. He worked there, he had relatives there his father lived and worked in Kenosha. Kyle spent an awful lot of time in the city. The filthy rioters were burning down the town Kyle loved.

He knew the National Guard had been stood down by the feckless Governor, the Police had stood down as there was nobody else working to quell the fires and destruction so he took to putting out fires where he could. He was threatened and attacked for doing so. He was pursued and chased around and he knew nobody was coming to help him. Once cornered he fought back, rightly so. It is called the Right to Self Defense.

Yes, he was trying to defend himself.
And as posted before, I hold all the leaders equally responsible for failing to meet in advance to set up safe agreed protocol for all participants to sign in order to attend organized rallies, and to set up designated areas for both people who agree to comply with policies and authorities, and those who refuse to sign advance agreements.

I have gone to protests outside Planned Parenthood that had barricaded areas set up for crowd control.

And an anti Klan rally that had designated areas to manage the protestors and keep them separated.

Knowing there were going to be eruptions like a war zone, district and police officials should have set up checkpoints at entrances and managed the areas targeted, the businesses and the city offices and police stations.

Maybe I am used to officials knowing to do this in advance. From living in Houston, where extreme flooding disasters like Harvey caused whole areas to be blocked off and guarded from looters coming in.

If you know and plan in advance, the damage can be largely limited by barricading and blocking off areas so law enforcement can control the traffic and deter mass chaos and crime.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The problem was there was no agreed process for safety enforcement, normally managed by police, and no way to tell who was acting as trained security or medical emergency help.

The men thought the others were there to instigate violence. When people see a lone person, carrying an automatic weapon, they are considitioned to respond to an Active Shooter threat.

Unfornunately all the men thought the other was there to incite violence, and they all were acting to stop such threat.
Seeing Rittenhouse as an Active Shooter threat also explains why 2 of the 3 men acted to isolate or disarm that threat. Rittenhouse also saw them as the criminal attackers and tried to stop them.

The fear was mutual where each saw the others as the dangerous threat to subdue.

The problem is negligence, in not establishing a uniform consistent safety enforcement process, training and identification, where all protest participants receive and agree to the same standards of security, and process as police are required to follow, where they identify themselves and instruct the person they are apprehending with safe steps to follow.

None of this would happen if citizens and police meet in advance to setup training and agreement to follow the same policies.

Nobody was carrying an automatic weapon.

 

[progressive hunter]

Yes, he was trying to defend himself.
And as posted before, I hold all the leaders equally responsible for failing to meet in advance to set up safe agreed protocol for all participants to sign in order to attend organized rallies, and to set up designated areas for both people who agree to comply with policies and authorities, and those who refuse to sign advance agreements.

I have gone to protests outside Planned Parenthood that had barricaded areas set up for crowd control.

And an anti Klan rally that had designated areas to manage the protestors and keep them separated.

Knowing there were going to be eruptions like a war zone, district and police officials should have set up checkpoints at entrances and managed the areas targeted, the businesses and the city offices and police stations.

Maybe I am used to officials knowing to do this in advance. From living in Houston, where extreme flooding disasters like Harvey caused whole areas to be blocked off and guarded from looters coming in.

If you know and plan in advance, the damage can be largely limited by barricading and blocking off areas so law enforcement can control the traffic and deter mass chaos and crime.

I think its hilarious youre complaining that rioters didnt meet with local leaders to set up rules for their riot,,,

 

[AZrailwhale]

I am not denying what each person knows is or was their intent.

What I am blaming for the deaths was the lack of agreed process of law enforcement.

Had all participants been required to sign agreements to COMPLY with laws and authorities, and follow uniform protocols, then no violence would have occurred or else it would be properly contained and addressed.

These people were set up to fail, enticed and invited to this chaotic dangerous environment.

As for Kyle Rittenhouse, 17 is too young to even train for military or police duty. All he knew was to defend himself from attack, but was not trained to de escalate or apprehend people safely as police have standard protocol they are required to follow.

I sympathize with him and his situation, and hold the city officials and law enforcement equally responsible as the people calling for protest. Knowing there were threats of violence, looting, vandalism and other crimes, the community leaders and officials should have met in advance, identified which leaders and groups were responsible for following agreed protocol, and asked all participants to either sign an agreement to follow the same process, or else protest in designated public areas that would be monitored for anyone refusing to sign. This would have organized the peaceful lawabiding protestors from any outside infiltrators or instigators not agreeing to follow civil laws authorities and protocols.

Back in 1997, I helped a coordinator of a rally in Houston who managed the crowd control by meeting with police and city officials in advance: we co wrote a pledge that each participant was required to sign, including agreements not to bring or consume alcohol or drugs, not to cause harm to any person or property, and to refrain from any conduct that would invoke arrest. Similar advance planning was done between LA police and protestors for the Ferguson/Michael Brown case where protestors set up a process with police to communicate which people were outside instigators and reporting any such threats that were not part of the peaceful demonstration.

This agreed protocol and meeting of organizers with local officials and law enforcement helps deter, reduce and prevent chaos and criminal violence due to lack of crowd control.

There are ways to set up security in advance.

Neither Kyle nor any of the others coming in as volunteers were trained or identified in advance, to address such a chaotic situation safely. It was like going into a war zone with no agreed rules of engagement, and no agreed identification for people acting as security.

Kyle is lucky to be alive, as well as the third man who survived getting shot.
Two lived and two died.

They all could have died given the chaos.

Just a mob going after anyone.

Rittenhouse would have to be trained and have backup, and still could have suffered the same ambush.

The failure was in not setting up safe agreed protocol between the city officials and leader organizers. That makes all the difference in keeping law abiding peaceful citizens safe and separated from anyone with ill intent to violate laws.

I feel equally for Rittenhouse as I do for the people shot and those killed.

They were all set up to fail. And Kyle is lucky to be alive and survive without major injury as the other survivor who lost use of his arm.

I sympathize with all of them.

Given this chaotic situation, the mob mentality makes people act beyond normal ability to reason. People just go mad and are not thinking rationally.

Nobody is safe in that kind of chaos.

This can be prevented with advance planning.

As for the people attacking Kyle:
One witness reported that one of these men chased after Kyle for putting out a fire that man started. The witness testimony and video show Kyle being chased extensively and people calling to go get him or kill him like a mob.

Again, I do not deny any of these reports that support Kyle's self defense position.

What I blame is the entire set up that allowed all this to occur.

If you are going to blame the city and police for negligence, then all the protestors are equally negligent for shared failures to set up agreed protocol in advance. Everyone is guilty of negligence if you are going to start blaming people.

Good luck getting people who intend to riot to agree with the police on ground rules. If they were interested in obeying the law, they wouldn’t be rioting in the first place.

 

[emilynghiem]

I appreciate your general sentiment. But I don’t think a group like ANTIFA would ever meaningfully agree to any pledge to refrain from violence against people or damage to property. I further doubt that they’d be hobbled by or constrained to comply with such a pledge anyway.

maybe Kyle was too young. But when riots Serve to prevent lawful authorities — like the police — from even arriving at an emergency scene, the community has a right to protect itself and to join together in such an effort.

Antifa never had any right to commit arson or to stone police vehicles or attack anyone who tries to put out their fires, etc. On balance, therefore, there is but one valid conclusion. Rittenhouse was mostly if not fully in the right.

Yes, even fully trained veterans and police would avoid a situation as he got into, in the first place, in order not to get ambushed and killed by a mob.

As for Antifa not following protocol: That is the whole point and purpose. It separates the people with ill intent to instigate violence. This helps screen out the outside instigators, as well as deter them more effectively by organizing the peaceful protestors agreeing to coordinate with police and city officials.

The lawabiding participants such as Kyle and others like him would be the type to work out plans in advance and agree to sign and follow those standards of not violating any laws, and or possibly having means of communicating with police to report unsafe conditions.

He and other volunteers could have been issued safety vests to identify emergency volunteers. When the HPD set up community volunteers they all had safety vests or shirts that identified them.

So instead of false or disputed claims that the attackers were there "administering medical assistance as volunteers", the officials would already know and establish a list of which people agreed to volunteer in that capacity.

The whole point is to weed out disruptive people, and organize the ones really there to enforce laws for public safety.

Exactly!

 

[emilynghiem]

I think its hilarious youre complaining that rioters didnt meet with local leaders to set up rules for their riot,,,

You start with the sincere protestors who want to rally legally and organize from there.

Yes, this was done with LA protestors meeting in advance with LAPD before Ferguson protests.

The real peace and justice activists are serious about credibility and leverage to urge reforms.

This separates the real leadership from the rioters who just want to vent, rage or protest violently for personal or political reasons, but are not serious about the real work to improve govt and enforce laws of justice which requires obeying higher standards of authority.

 

[progressive hunter]

You start with the sincere protestors who want to rally legally and organize from there.

Yes, this was done with LA protestors meeting in advance with LAPD before Ferguson protests.

The real peace and justice activists are serious about credibility and leverage to urge reforms.

This separates the real leadership from the rioters who just want to vent, rage or protest violently for personal or political reasons, but are not serious about the real work to improve govt and enforce laws of justice which requires obeying higher standards of authority.

protest dont happen in the middle of the night and dont involve burning property,,,

but please continue,, youre really funny,,

 

[BackAgain]

Yes, even fully trained veterans and police would avoid a situation as he got into, in the first place, in order not to get ambushed and killed by a mob.

As for Antifa not following protocol: That is the whole point and purpose. It separates the people with ill intent to instigate violence. This helps screen out the outside instigators, as well as deter them more effectively by organizing the peaceful protestors agreeing to coordinate with police and city officials.

The lawabiding participants such as Kyle and others like him would be the type to work out plans in advance and agree to sign and follow those standards of not violating any laws, and or possibly having means of communicating with police to report unsafe conditions.

He and other volunteers could have been issued safety vests to identify emergency volunteers. When the HPD set up community volunteers they all had safety vests or shirts that identified them.

So instead of false or disputed claims that the attackers were there "administering medical assistance as volunteers", the officials would already know and establish a list of which people agreed to volunteer in that capacity.

The whole point is to weed out disruptive people, and organize the ones really there to enforce laws for public safety.

Exactly!

We are closer to each other’s position than any disagreement on certain points might imply. Much closer.

 

[Flash]

I am not denying what each person knows is or was their intent.

What I am blaming for the deaths was the lack of agreed process of law enforcement.

Had all participants been required to sign agreements to COMPLY with laws and authorities, and follow uniform protocols, then no violence would have occurred or else it would be properly contained and addressed.

These people were set up to fail, enticed and invited to this chaotic dangerous environment.

As for Kyle Rittenhouse, 17 is too young to even train for military or police duty. All he knew was to defend himself from attack, but was not trained to de escalate or apprehend people safely as police have standard protocol they are required to follow.

I sympathize with him and his situation, and hold the city officials and law enforcement equally responsible as the people calling for protest. Knowing there were threats of violence, looting, vandalism and other crimes, the community leaders and officials should have met in advance, identified which leaders and groups were responsible for following agreed protocol, and asked all participants to either sign an agreement to follow the same process, or else protest in designated public areas that would be monitored for anyone refusing to sign. This would have organized the peaceful lawabiding protestors from any outside infiltrators or instigators not agreeing to follow civil laws authorities and protocols.

Back in 1997, I helped a coordinator of a rally in Houston who managed the crowd control by meeting with police and city officials in advance: we co wrote a pledge that each participant was required to sign, including agreements not to bring or consume alcohol or drugs, not to cause harm to any person or property, and to refrain from any conduct that would invoke arrest. Similar advance planning was done between LA police and protestors for the Ferguson/Michael Brown case where protestors set up a process with police to communicate which people were outside instigators and reporting any such threats that were not part of the peaceful demonstration.

This agreed protocol and meeting of organizers with local officials and law enforcement helps deter, reduce and prevent chaos and criminal violence due to lack of crowd control.

There are ways to set up security in advance.

Neither Kyle nor any of the others coming in as volunteers were trained or identified in advance, to address such a chaotic situation safely. It was like going into a war zone with no agreed rules of engagement, and no agreed identification for people acting as security.

Kyle is lucky to be alive, as well as the third man who survived getting shot.
Two lived and two died.

They all could have died given the chaos.

Just a mob going after anyone.

Rittenhouse would have to be trained and have backup, and still could have suffered the same ambush.

The failure was in not setting up safe agreed protocol between the city officials and leader organizers. That makes all the difference in keeping law abiding peaceful citizens safe and separated from anyone with ill intent to violate laws.

I feel equally for Rittenhouse as I do for the people shot and those killed.

They were all set up to fail. And Kyle is lucky to be alive and survive without major injury as the other survivor who lost use of his arm.

I sympathize with all of them.

Given this chaotic situation, the mob mentality makes people act beyond normal ability to reason. People just go mad and are not thinking rationally.

Nobody is safe in that kind of chaos.

This can be prevented with advance planning.

As for the people attacking Kyle:
One witness reported that one of these men chased after Kyle for putting out a fire that man started. The witness testimony and video show Kyle being chased extensively and people calling to go get him or kill him like a mob.

Again, I do not deny any of these reports that support Kyle's self defense position.

What I blame is the entire set up that allowed all this to occur.

If you are going to blame the city and police for negligence, then all the protestors are equally negligent for shared failures to set up agreed protocol in advance. Everyone is guilty of negligence if you are going to start blaming people.

BLM/ANTIFA never had any intentions of ever establishing any "protocols". That is not how they operate.

 

[M14 Shooter]

BLM/ANTIFA never had any intentions of ever establishing any "protocols". That is not how they operate.

Not so.
1: Loot
2: Burn
They figured this out the hard way.

 

[Muhammed]

As for Kyle Rittenhouse, 17 is too young to even train for military or police duty. All he knew was to defend himself from attack, but was not trained to de escalate or apprehend people safely as police have standard protocol they are required to follow.

I see you know nothing about Kyle's training.

Actually witnesses said that Kyle successfully deescalated situations and he's on video deescalating a situation. And he did have police training and police issued body armor as a member of the Grayslake Police Department's Explorer program.

Kyle was also an Antioch Firefighter/EMT cadet. He also worked as a certified lifeguard and had CPR and basic emergency life support training.

Kyle was there putting out fires and administering first aid to injured people. Contrary to fake news reports and the corrupt prosecutor, Kyle never chased down or tried to apprehend anyone.

The video evidence that the prosecutor unsuccessfully tried to suppress at the beginning of the trial and the eyewitness testimony proves that Kyle was the one being chased, it wasn't the other way around.

 

[Muhammed]

Maybe I am used to officials knowing to do this in advance. From living in Houston, where extreme flooding disasters like Harvey caused whole areas to be blocked off and guarded from looters coming in.

If you know and plan in advance, the damage can be largely limited by barricading and blocking off areas so law enforcement can control the traffic and deter mass chaos and crime.

You don't seem to get it. The Democrat city officials wanted the riots and terrorist attacks to happen. They were on the side of the Democrat rioters/terrorists.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are we still using this thread to beat each other senseless over the Rittenhouse trial?

 

[PoliticalChic]

That's faulty reasoning.

The judge allowing the jury to consider it is not inferring one way or another whether he thinks it's true or not.

There's a reason why trial courts have juries, you legally illiterate shill. They are the ones who determine the veracity of claims and evidence made or submitted by the witnesses, plaintiffs, and defendants.

Let's not ignore the state media when it comes to the ability of citizens to judge veracity.

 

[TemplarKormac]

 

[TemplarKormac]

 

[TemplarKormac]

 

[TemplarKormac]

 

[TemplarKormac]