Laid Off

[BlackSand]

It doesn't reward failure, it rewards the working people who actually do the work, oh boy, your bullshit "success" argument.

The workers are not rewarded by Socialists ... They are only truly rewarded when they accomplish the intended goal.
Capitalist are the people who can truly reward the workers ... I can pay them what they desire without your input at all.

The fact you think workers want to live and work in an environment where they need to be taken care of ... Instead of provided with an environment where they can accomplish their goals ... Is just fucking stupid.

.

 

[BluesLegend]

Friends husband was just laid off from job he has had for 11 years.IT/Computer etc. Outsourcing entire department to Philippines! Oh the wonderful joys of Capitalism. Bosses get richer,long term SKILLED employees get the shaft and slaves do work for pennies in Philippines....or should I say indentured servants.He is filing for unemployment but that's not the point...its wrong and should be stopped.

You can thank the Democrats. Thank them for the highest business taxes in the entire world. Thank them for 800,000 pages of government regulations in just the last 10 years. Thank them for choosing pet left wing causes over jobs and people. Thank them for the scam climate change. You getting the picture?

Why are you blaming the high rates on the Democrats? Did Obama raise the corporate tax rates?

Please refrain from voting until you become better informed.

Please refrain from making assertions that you can't or won't backup with actual facts.

That you are ignorant of tax increases does not mean they don't exist, what a crazy outlook you have. Democrats gave us Obamacare, there's over $1 trillion dollars in tax increase in that bill alone.

 

[Marxist]

It doesn't reward failure, it rewards the working people who actually do the work, oh boy, your bullshit "success" argument.

The workers are not rewarded by Socialists ... They are only truly rewarded when they accomplish the intended goal.
Capitalist are the people who can truly reward the workers ... I can pay them what they desire without your input at all.

The fact you think workers want to live and work in an environment where they need to be taken care of ... Instead of provided with an environment where they can accomplish their goals ... Is just fucking stupid.

.

The workers own the means of production, oh yeah, what is their goal without capitalism? Please, explain. LOL. They can't reward themselves? Yeah, hundreds of millions desire less then enough to meet the recommended nutritional needs, gee, thanks for that insight. No one says they need to be taken care of, they deserve to own the means of production for the benefit of everyone.

 

[BlackSand]

Its capable of showing a real problem that is inherit with capitalism. I'm not living in the past, suck the life out of others? How? Please explain how letting workers own production does this. Yeah, albert einstein, martin luther king were failures, good to know. They thrive on failure? You define failure as not being a capitalist, LOL

Einstein Failed ... Martin Luther King failed ... We all fail and it only makes a difference when you accomplish something.

I didn't define failure as not being a Capitalist ... I defined failure as the inability to achieve a goal ... try to argue with that nit-wit.
Workers own their work in every situation ... It is what they do ... What they get paid for.
Your ideas suck the life out of others because they reward the inability to succeed and cannot flourish without the exploitation of the successful.

But I have already explained all that ... And it is obvious you still have nothing more than rhetoric.

.

 

[Marxist]

Its capable of showing a real problem that is inherit with capitalism. I'm not living in the past, suck the life out of others? How? Please explain how letting workers own production does this. Yeah, albert einstein, martin luther king were failures, good to know. They thrive on failure? You define failure as not being a capitalist, LOL

Einstein Failed ... Martin Luther King failed ... We all fail and it only makes a difference when you accomplish something.

I didn't define failure as not being a Capitalist ... I defined failure as the inability to achieve a goal ... try to argue with that nit-wit.
Workers own their work in every situation ... It is what they do ... What they get paid for.
Your ideas suck the life out of others because they reward the inability to succeed and cannot flourish without the exploitation of the successful.

But I have already explained all that ... And it is obvious you still have nothing more than rhetoric.

.

Einstein and martin luther king failed? LOL, THEY FAILED THEIR GOALS? REALLY NOW? Yeah, you're obviously defining the goals of billions of people, most of them would tell you to fuck off. They don't own their work, they work, and the fruits of their labor go to the capitalist, while they receive payment in less then what they are worth, I suck the life out of others? Exploitation of the successful? You fail to understand anything.

 

[BlackSand]

The workers own the means of production, oh yeah, what is their goal without capitalism? Please, explain. LOL. They can't reward themselves? Yeah, hundreds of millions desire less then enough to meet the recommended nutritional needs, gee, thanks for that insight. No one says they need to be taken care of, they deserve to own the means of production for the benefit of everyone.

If the workers want to own the means of production ... They can go out there like anyone else and get it.
They reward themselves in Capitalism by contributing their part and getting paid for it.

You suggest that hundreds of millions of people don't want to make enough money to feed themselves.
I personally think that is bullshit and not what they want at all.
Socialists or government giving them anything ... Is still not an example of them earning the money necessary to survive.

They can have the means of production ... Go out there and get it.
Or continue to wallow in failure ... It is your choice.

.

 

[Marxist]

The workers own the means of production, oh yeah, what is their goal without capitalism? Please, explain. LOL. They can't reward themselves? Yeah, hundreds of millions desire less then enough to meet the recommended nutritional needs, gee, thanks for that insight. No one says they need to be taken care of, they deserve to own the means of production for the benefit of everyone.

If the workers want to own the means of production ... They can go out there like anyone else and get it.
They reward themselves in Capitalism by contributing their part and getting paid for it.

You suggest that hundreds of millions of people don't want to make enough money to feed themselves.
I personally think that is bullshit and not what they want at all.
Socialists or government giving them anything ... Is still not an example of them earning the money necessary to survive.

They can have the means of production ... Go out there and get it.
Or continue to wallow in failure ... It is your choice.

.

Yeah, they can obviously get it when the very idea of capitalism is the capitalist owning production and trade.
I never suggested that, but you keep hinting that people are failures because they don't achieve their goals, and you wont' tell me what their goals are, after refusing that it is to be a capitalist. Wait, you don't understand sarcasm? Jesus fucking christ. Yeah, socialism is simply collective ownership of production, wallow in failure? Please, define this, you refuse to do so.

 

[BlackSand]

Einstein and martin luther king failed? LOL, THEY FAILED THEIR GOALS? REALLY NOW? Yeah, you're obviously defining the goals of billions of people, most of them would tell you to fuck off. They don't own their work, they work, and the fruits of their labor go to the capitalist, while they receive payment in less then what they are worth, I suck the life out of others? Exploitation of the successful? You fail to understand anything.

They failed and they picked themselves up again and succeeded ... You are a nit-wit.
I obviously have not defined the goals of anyone ... That is your old worn out bullshit ... it cannot exist without your applying your definition to everything, however incorrect they may be.

If they are working for less than they think they deserve ... The best thing to do is work somewhere else.
if they think they are capable of doing it all themselves ... Then I suggest they do so ... It is liberating.

.

 

[Marxist]

Einstein and martin luther king failed? LOL, THEY FAILED THEIR GOALS? REALLY NOW? Yeah, you're obviously defining the goals of billions of people, most of them would tell you to fuck off. They don't own their work, they work, and the fruits of their labor go to the capitalist, while they receive payment in less then what they are worth, I suck the life out of others? Exploitation of the successful? You fail to understand anything.

They failed and they picked themselves up again and succeeded ... You are a nit-wit.
I obviously have not defined the goals of anyone ... That is your old worn out bullshit ... it cannot exist without your applying your definition to everything, however incorrect they may be.

If they are working for less than they think they deserve ... The best thing to do is work somewhere else.
if they think they are capable of doing it all themselves ... Then I suggest they do so ... It is liberating.

.

You are trying to apply your definition of failure, and many people pick themselves up all the time. It's not that easy to work somewhere else when all capitalists rely on exploitation, it's not easy when you're in china, india, Uzbekistan, the third world in general, poor urban areas in first world countries, doing it themselves? Ah, sounds like you just want everyone to be capitalists, keep going.

 

[BlackSand]

Yeah, they can obviously get it when the very idea of capitalism is the capitalist owning production and trade.
I never suggested that, but you keep hinting that people are failures because they don't achieve their goals, and you wont' tell me what their goals are, after refusing that it is to be a capitalist. Wait, you don't understand sarcasm? Jesus fucking christ. Yeah, socialism is simply collective ownership of production, wallow in failure? Please, define this, you refuse to do so.

Their goals are anything they desire to achieve ... They are not limited to whatever your design may allow.
Wallowing in failure is the acceptance of failure ... Then the idea that you are incapable of achieving anything without handicapping the system ... And relentlessly crying about it.

.

 

[BlackSand]

You are trying to apply your definition of failure, and many people pick themselves up all the time. It's not that easy to work somewhere else when all capitalists rely on exploitation, it's not easy when you're in china, india, Uzbekistan, the third world in general, poor urban areas in first world countries, doing it themselves? Ah, sounds like you just want everyone to be capitalists, keep going.

Only Socialists are required to rely on exploitation as a matter of existence ... They cannot exist without the support of others.
You are correct ... I do wish everyone was a successful Capitalist ... And I will do what I can to make them that way.

I can do that ... And don't need your help nor a government to do so.

.

 

[Marxist]

You are trying to apply your definition of failure, and many people pick themselves up all the time. It's not that easy to work somewhere else when all capitalists rely on exploitation, it's not easy when you're in china, india, Uzbekistan, the third world in general, poor urban areas in first world countries, doing it themselves? Ah, sounds like you just want everyone to be capitalists, keep going.

Only Socialists are required to rely on exploitation as a matter of existence ... They cannot exist without the support of others.
You are correct ... I do wish everyone was a successful Capitalist ... And I will do what I can to make them that way.

I can do that ... And don't need your help nor a government to do so.

.

You've already admitted that only a minority of people can be capitalists, tell me more about your brilliant plan to make people capitalist, not like we need billions to do actual labor. Socialism doesn't rely on exploitation for existence.. don't know where you're getting this rhetoric.

 

[BlackSand]

You've already admitted that only a minority of people can be capitalists, tell me more about your brilliant plan to make people capitalist, not like we need billions to do actual labor. Socialism doesn't rely on exploitation for existence.. don't know where you're getting this rhetoric.

The plan is simple ...

Find what it is you really want to do ... What you love to do.
Bang the doors ... Go through the hardships it takes to prepare ... Gather the resources available to you.
Take the risk ... Jump in both feet and prepare to fail.

If you fail ... Get back up ... Learn from your mistakes ... Make better preparations and gather better resources.
Use the wisdom you have gained and provide for better conditions should you fail again.
Take the risk ... Jump back in ... Wash and repeat until it kills you, or you succeed.

.

 

[Marxist]

You've already admitted that only a minority of people can be capitalists, tell me more about your brilliant plan to make people capitalist, not like we need billions to do actual labor. Socialism doesn't rely on exploitation for existence.. don't know where you're getting this rhetoric.

The plan is simple ...

Find what it is you really want to do ... What you love to do.
Bang the doors ... Go through the hardships it takes to prepare ... Gather the resources available to you.
Take the risk ... Jump in both feet first and prepare to fail.

If you fail ... Get back up ... Learn from your mistakes ... Make better preparations and gather better resources.
Use the wisdom you have gained and provide for better conditions should you fail again.
Take the risk ... Jump back in ... Wash and repeat until it kills you, or you succeed.

.

Success rate: 1 out of a million
Good job ignoring the fact that only a minority can be capitalists, and that billions will never be given the proper opportunities or education/pathways, and the limited amount of "middle class jobs" and all of the other shit, the fact is, most of these people just want to meet their nutritional needs, have guaranteed access to health care, make a decent wage to buy snacks for their children every couple of days... Wash and repeat until it kills you? - This is worthy of a signature. Oh, you were talking about rhetoric..

 

[BlackSand]

Success rate: 1 out of a million
Good job ignoring the fact that only a minority can be capitalists, and that billions will never be given the proper opportunities or education/pathways, and the limited amount of "middle class jobs" and all of the other shit, the fact is, most of these people just want to meet their nutritional needs, have guaranteed access to health care, make a decent wage to buy snacks for their children every couple of days... Wash and repeat until it kills you? - This is worthy of a signature. Oh, you were talking about rhetoric..

I have not indicated in any way that I am ignoring the fact we all fail.
We have all the things you mention available already ... That's how I got to where I am and where I help as many people as I can get to.

If you are scared of failure, are unwilling to succeed, or just want to take the easy way out ... Well, fuck you. ... You get what you get.

.

 

[Marxist]

Success rate: 1 out of a million
Good job ignoring the fact that only a minority can be capitalists, and that billions will never be given the proper opportunities or education/pathways, and the limited amount of "middle class jobs" and all of the other shit, the fact is, most of these people just want to meet their nutritional needs, have guaranteed access to health care, make a decent wage to buy snacks for their children every couple of days... Wash and repeat until it kills you? - This is worthy of a signature. Oh, you were talking about rhetoric..

I have not indicated in any way that I am ignoring the fact we all fail.
We have all the things you mention available already ... That's how I got to where I am and where I help as many people as I can get to.

If you are scared of failure, are unwilling to succeed, or just want to take the easy way out ... Well, fuck you. ... You get what you deserve.

What are you talking about? You keep repeating the same rhetoric, that you have accused me of doing, which I'm not, since I actually enjoy discussion, but none the less, the majority will always fail to become capitalists, the majority will always be workers under capitalists in the current system, we have all the things I mention available? Yeah, in select areas of first world countries, let's ignore the third world and the workers in asia/india/etc... I'm not scared of failure, and I feel like I am successful, again, you said you're not defining success, but you act like it only is becoming a capitalist.

 

[Dragonlady]

I feel like I've stumbled into a right-wing talking points convention. How is it that Canada, and the European countries are able to keep most of their jobs, considering that their workers are have higher minimum wages, more unions, higher taxes, and lots of regulations? The recycling laws in Germany would make an American right winger's head explode. And yet these people are retaining most of their manufacturing, and their economies are healthy. Canada now has the fastest growing middle class in the world, and our taxes are higher, are wages are higher, and everything costs more here.

Could it be "gasp" that the right wing is focusing on the WRONG things. My employer is required to pay unemployment insurance premiums, OHIP premiums, and make some Canada Pension Plan contributions, for each of his employees. Employees are also required to contribute to all of these things. Our minimum wage is nearly $11.00 per hour and yet Walmart is still one of the most profitable companies in Canada.

In Canada, if a company moves its IT department offshore, Canadians simply stop doing business with them, If politicians do things we dont' like, we refuse to vote for their party. The Progressive Conservative Party no longer exists because they gave us an 8% value added tax on all purchases. The GST is the most hated tax in Canada. The election after its introduction by the PC's, the part went from a solid majority in Parliament, to 4 sitting members, and lost party status - it takes 6 members to have funding for party offices on Parliament Hill.

And the lot of you here pillory a person who has lost his job through no fault of his own, is willing to work, and has skills. No wonder you vote Republican. You are incapable of discerning how thoroughly they lie to you.

Companies have record profits. They're sitting on piles of cash. They're not going overseas because of unions, regulations or taxes. They're going because it's more profitable. The primary goal of a corporation is to make the most money possible. A company has no other purpose. It has no conscience, no compassion, no feelings. It does care that the economy suffers every time a job is lost.

And you brainwashed twits buy it. Unquestioning loyalty to the party line. You lot are fools for buying it.

Interesting how the leftist answer is always, "If we just stopped allowing so much freedom and MADE people do what we want them to, life would be so much better."

Let me help you out, Twinkles.

Greyhound.com Home

They have lots of one-way trips to Canada. Buh-bye.

No need...she's already in Toronto.

Then why the piss is she even bothering to butt in to the affairs of other countries? You don't see us going around, telling the Canadians how to run THEIR country.[/QUOTE

Yes you do. Americans are always telling us how we should run our country. They even tried to have us cancel our healthcare program as part of the NAFTA negotiations.

We were criticized because our government refused to join in the invasion of Iraq.

No country interferes more in other countries' business than the U.S.

 

[BlackSand]

What are you talking about? You keep repeating the same rhetoric, that you have accused me of doing, which I'm not, since I actually enjoy discussion, but none the less, the majority will always fail to become capitalists, the majority will always be workers under capitalists in the current system, we have all the things I mention available? Yeah, in select areas of first world countries, let's ignore the third world and the workers in asia/india/etc... I'm not scared of failure, and I feel like I am successful, again, you said you're not defining success, but you act like it only is becoming a capitalist.

You are not putting the resources mentioned in third world countries ... I am though.
It better serves my desires to have trained and capable employees that want to work and better their lives.

See ... That has been the difference since the beginning of our discussion.
You have rhetoric and ideas ... I know what works and is beneficial in providing for everyone.

That is why you can talk about it and I can do it (and still have time to sit around and talk with you about it).


Edit:
It should be noted that I do not expend efforts offshore as a simple matter of cheap labor or whatever.
None of the resources I currently utilize in business are within the borders of the United States, nor are they capable of packing and shipping here for production.

.

 

[westwall]

You've already admitted that only a minority of people can be capitalists, tell me more about your brilliant plan to make people capitalist, not like we need billions to do actual labor. Socialism doesn't rely on exploitation for existence.. don't know where you're getting this rhetoric.

The plan is simple ...

Find what it is you really want to do ... What you love to do.
Bang the doors ... Go through the hardships it takes to prepare ... Gather the resources available to you.
Take the risk ... Jump in both feet first and prepare to fail.

If you fail ... Get back up ... Learn from your mistakes ... Make better preparations and gather better resources.
Use the wisdom you have gained and provide for better conditions should you fail again.
Take the risk ... Jump back in ... Wash and repeat until it kills you, or you succeed.

.

Success rate: 1 out of a million
Good job ignoring the fact that only a minority can be capitalists, and that billions will never be given the proper opportunities or education/pathways, and the limited amount of "middle class jobs" and all of the other shit, the fact is, most of these people just want to meet their nutritional needs, have guaranteed access to health care, make a decent wage to buy snacks for their children every couple of days... Wash and repeat until it kills you? - This is worthy of a signature. Oh, you were talking about rhetoric..

Well, it's not one out of a million, but even if it were at least that's one. In a purely socialist economy there are far fewer winners. You have the small ruling elite who live like emperors, and then you have the rest of the proletariat who are no better than serfs.

Capitalism works far better, for more people than socialism ever has, or even can.

 

[Pheonixops]

Friends husband was just laid off from job he has had for 11 years.IT/Computer etc. Outsourcing entire department to Philippines! Oh the wonderful joys of Capitalism. Bosses get richer,long term SKILLED employees get the shaft and slaves do work for pennies in Philippines....or should I say indentured servants.He is filing for unemployment but that's not the point...its wrong and should be stopped.

You can thank the Democrats. Thank them for the highest business taxes in the entire world. Thank them for 800,000 pages of government regulations in just the last 10 years. Thank them for choosing pet left wing causes over jobs and people. Thank them for the scam climate change. You getting the picture?

Why are you blaming the high rates on the Democrats? Did Obama raise the corporate tax rates?

Please refrain from voting until you become better informed.

Please refrain from making assertions that you can't or won't backup with actual facts.

That you are ignorant of tax increases does not mean they don't exist, what a crazy outlook you have. Democrats gave us Obamacare, there's over $1 trillion dollars in tax increase in that bill alone.

I'm not ignorant of anything, I was specifically addressing this "Thank them for the highest business taxes in the entire world." . I took that to mean the corporate income tax. If one googles "business tax" it will come up as corporate tax .

You then responded with the Obamacare (which I am not in favor of because of the mandatory provisions) "tax" in an exasperated manner.
Will The Middle Class Really Pay One Trillion In New Obamacare Taxes And If True What Would It Buy Them - Forbes