Law professor: Slippery slope to legal incest and polygamy

[Seawytch]

Because a stable nuclear family is the foundation of society and therefore in the state's interest to promote.
That pretty well covers it. You can carp and dither all you want about childless couples and older couples but it is irrelevant.

Nonsense.

This ‘argument’ was used and failed in Perry.

Advocates of Proposition 8 failed to provide any objective, documented evidence in support of this canard.

It is hardly a canard. It is the truth. People are so screwed up they cannot see it.
It is a fact that children coming out of a stable home with 2 parents tend to have fewer problems than otherwise. We are already seeing children raised in deviant homes being subjected to essentially child abuse by politically hyperactive "parents".

How is the discrimination different?

People who engage in the sin of interracial marriage need to reflect upon the offspring they will parent. What race will these children identify with? We know of a child who asked her maternal grandmother when she would turn white like her. ... The above-mentioned child put powder all over herself one day, in an attempt to look like her mother. This, of course, did not work. It will never work, and this child will suffer for her mother's sin forever.

What God Says About Interracial Marriage

 

[Gadawg73]

You're becoming especially incoherent now that i've taken you to cleaners on this issue.
There is no ban. There are no gay police out there hauling off couples to jail because they posted a piece of paper on a wall.
Go have another scotch and maybe things will be clearer.

So you spent millions on a referendum to ban same sex marriage and it passes and you allow marriage licenses for same sex couples as a result of that.
Back in my playing days I always knew when I had that big, overgrown man mountain of an offensive tackle beat when he started calling me names, crying to the line ref and making excuses.
You have been caught and filleted. You claim that your state passed a Constitutional Amendment banning same sex marriages yet do not enforce it.
Enforcement IS NOT PRISON, it is NOT issuing them a license.
B

You keep on with the fallacy that the state banned same sex marriage. I've already pointed out that is wrong. I quoted the text of the TN Constitution that establishes the rule. And yet you continue to spew misinformation and claim you somehow "won" because you've disproven what I never wrote.
Are you feeling quite all right?

"We support the passage of a Constitutional Amendment THAT MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN ONLY"
And you claim with a straight face that is not wanting to allow gay folks to get married.
You labeled the bill THE TENNESSEE MARRIAGE PROTECTION AMENDMENT
What are you protecting your self against there?
Hate to make you look real bad here as I tried to avoid that but you do not even know that Tennessee had EXISTING STATUTES that banned gay marriage and civil unions before your "protection" act.
You folks can marry your first cousins LEGALLY but gay folks can not get married.
You can marry under age 16 with a court order.
Fitting.
The Official Code Annotated in Tennessee specifically states "the LEGAL union of matrimony of ONLY ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN SHALL BE THE ONLY RECOGNIZED UNION IN THIS STATE"
That is the law and you claim there is no law there.
Give it up, your bull shit has been exposed as fraud.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yes, you're right komrad. Families must be regulated for the good of the state.

You're kinda stupid, aren't you?

Komrad Rabbi, like all right wing progressive statists, believes the government should make all do as he believes is right.

 

[The Rabbi]

So you spent millions on a referendum to ban same sex marriage and it passes and you allow marriage licenses for same sex couples as a result of that.
Back in my playing days I always knew when I had that big, overgrown man mountain of an offensive tackle beat when he started calling me names, crying to the line ref and making excuses.
You have been caught and filleted. You claim that your state passed a Constitutional Amendment banning same sex marriages yet do not enforce it.
Enforcement IS NOT PRISON, it is NOT issuing them a license.
B

You keep on with the fallacy that the state banned same sex marriage. I've already pointed out that is wrong. I quoted the text of the TN Constitution that establishes the rule. And yet you continue to spew misinformation and claim you somehow "won" because you've disproven what I never wrote.
Are you feeling quite all right?

"We support the passage of a Constitutional Amendment THAT MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN ONLY"
And you claim with a straight face that is not wanting to allow gay folks to get married.
You labeled the bill THE TENNESSEE MARRIAGE PROTECTION AMENDMENT
What are you protecting your self against there?
Hate to make you look real bad here as I tried to avoid that but you do not even know that Tennessee had EXISTING STATUTES that banned gay marriage and civil unions before your "protection" act.
You folks can marry your first cousins LEGALLY but gay folks can not get married.
You can marry under age 16 with a court order.
Fitting.
The Official Code Annotated in Tennessee specifically states "the LEGAL union of matrimony of ONLY ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN SHALL BE THE ONLY RECOGNIZED UNION IN THIS STATE"
That is the law and you claim there is no law there.
Give it up, your bull shit has been exposed as fraud.

You continue to say I claim things which I clearly don't.
Gays get married in TN all the time. Please show me a gay couple who got married and then got hauled off to jail for it. There is nothing illegal about 2 gays, or anyone else, marrying each other.
The state however does not recognize such marriages.

Do you need the state to recognize your marriage for it to be legitimate?

 

[The Rabbi]

Nonsense.

This ‘argument’ was used and failed in Perry.

Advocates of Proposition 8 failed to provide any objective, documented evidence in support of this canard.

It is hardly a canard. It is the truth. People are so screwed up they cannot see it.
It is a fact that children coming out of a stable home with 2 parents tend to have fewer problems than otherwise. We are already seeing children raised in deviant homes being subjected to essentially child abuse by politically hyperactive "parents".

How is the discrimination different?

People who engage in the sin of interracial marriage need to reflect upon the offspring they will parent. What race will these children identify with? We know of a child who asked her maternal grandmother when she would turn white like her. ... The above-mentioned child put powder all over herself one day, in an attempt to look like her mother. This, of course, did not work. It will never work, and this child will suffer for her mother's sin forever.

What God Says About Interracial Marriage

Because interracial marriage is not gay marriage. Therefore they are different. The state had no legitimate interest in promoting same race marriage over interracial marriage. That is not the case with gay marriage where the state has a compelling interest.
But you keep banging that drum and maybe someone will buy the bullshit.

 

[RKMBrown]

You cannot say that unless you can point to said inbred child.

By the way, inbreeding occurs when a gene pool is too small, and takes generations to occur. It doesn't happen simply because cousins, or even siblings, have sex. Also, it is just as likely that any child of siblings would have a positive trait reinforced as a negative one.

I was not referring to small gene pool problems, I was referring to laws against incest as brought up in the OP.

Since I wrote the OP I can state categorically that you missed the whole point that the professor was making.

Think of the Children!

This argument is more relevant to incest than polygamy. Incest raises the risk of birth defects, or so we’ve been told. But the risks are reportedly small, and probably less than for parents over forty, or smokers, or those with certain hereditary diseases. If the government stepped in to regulate the decisions of potential parents on those grounds, we’d rightly dust off our “nanny state” bromides. This is the kind of thing we usually leave for people to decide for themselves. Here, too, the argument that marriage is about protecting the children sounds eerily familiar to the arguments trotted out against same-sex couples for years. And even if we wanted to intervene to protect the potential offspring of incestuous couples, there are things we could do (mandatory genetic counseling, for example) short of outright bans on their marriages.

The point he, and I, am trying to make is that you have to come up with better arguments than the standard ones you have, yet you keep trotting out the same idiotic argument, even after you admit that you have no explanation as to people with higher risk of passing on deleterious traits are allowed to reproduce without regulation.

Keep swinging though, sooner or later you will realize that you can't hit a fastball with a ping pong paddle.

>>> you can't hit a fastball with a ping pong paddle

Yes I can.

to your point.. you are trying to prove a wrong makes a right a wrong. Your argument makes no sense. You are trying to prove that because someone else is allowed to do wrong you should be allowed to do a different but similar wrong that is illegal. It makes no sense. It makes no sense because "fairness" is a myth. Didn't your mom teach you that?

 

[Seawytch]

It is hardly a canard. It is the truth. People are so screwed up they cannot see it.
It is a fact that children coming out of a stable home with 2 parents tend to have fewer problems than otherwise. We are already seeing children raised in deviant homes being subjected to essentially child abuse by politically hyperactive "parents".

How is the discrimination different?

People who engage in the sin of interracial marriage need to reflect upon the offspring they will parent. What race will these children identify with? We know of a child who asked her maternal grandmother when she would turn white like her. ... The above-mentioned child put powder all over herself one day, in an attempt to look like her mother. This, of course, did not work. It will never work, and this child will suffer for her mother's sin forever.

What God Says About Interracial Marriage

Because interracial marriage is not gay marriage. Therefore they are different. The state had no legitimate interest in promoting same race marriage over interracial marriage. That is not the case with gay marriage where the state has a compelling interest.
But you keep banging that drum and maybe someone will buy the bullshit.

Brilliant! "How is the discrimination different", I ask...

Rabbi's response? "It just is".

Truly brilliant!

You say the state has a compelling interest to "promote marriage" and yet you didn't say how letting me legally marry and protect my partner and family "un-promotes" marriage.

seems to me it boils down to you not being "special" anymore.

We don't have to have a "compelling state reason" to get married, but you do have to provide an overriding harm in allowing it. You can't.

 

[Gadawg73]

You keep on with the fallacy that the state banned same sex marriage. I've already pointed out that is wrong. I quoted the text of the TN Constitution that establishes the rule. And yet you continue to spew misinformation and claim you somehow "won" because you've disproven what I never wrote.
Are you feeling quite all right?

"We support the passage of a Constitutional Amendment THAT MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN ONLY"
And you claim with a straight face that is not wanting to allow gay folks to get married.
You labeled the bill THE TENNESSEE MARRIAGE PROTECTION AMENDMENT
What are you protecting your self against there?
Hate to make you look real bad here as I tried to avoid that but you do not even know that Tennessee had EXISTING STATUTES that banned gay marriage and civil unions before your "protection" act.
You folks can marry your first cousins LEGALLY but gay folks can not get married.
You can marry under age 16 with a court order.
Fitting.
The Official Code Annotated in Tennessee specifically states "the LEGAL union of matrimony of ONLY ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN SHALL BE THE ONLY RECOGNIZED UNION IN THIS STATE"
That is the law and you claim there is no law there.
Give it up, your bull shit has been exposed as fraud.

You continue to say I claim things which I clearly don't.
Gays get married in TN all the time. Please show me a gay couple who got married and then got hauled off to jail for it. There is nothing illegal about 2 gays, or anyone else, marrying each other.
The state however does not recognize such marriages.

Do you need the state to recognize your marriage for it to be legitimate?

HAHAHA
I quoted the law that limits who can marry and gay folks are not in it.
A STATUTE, A LAW.
The law specifically states ONLY a certain group can get married.
Substitute "white" in there and you would not make up this dog and pony show of yours.
"Black folks get married in Tennessee all the time, they do not get hauled off to jail. There is nothing illegal about black folks marrying each other"
You do not even know how stupid you look hiding behind that fraud of an "argument".

 

[RKMBrown]

How is the discrimination different?

People who engage in the sin of interracial marriage need to reflect upon the offspring they will parent. What race will these children identify with? We know of a child who asked her maternal grandmother when she would turn white like her. ... The above-mentioned child put powder all over herself one day, in an attempt to look like her mother. This, of course, did not work. It will never work, and this child will suffer for her mother's sin forever.

What God Says About Interracial Marriage

Because interracial marriage is not gay marriage. Therefore they are different. The state had no legitimate interest in promoting same race marriage over interracial marriage. That is not the case with gay marriage where the state has a compelling interest.
But you keep banging that drum and maybe someone will buy the bullshit.

Brilliant! "How is the discrimination different", I ask...

Rabbi's response? "It just is".

Truly brilliant!

You say the state has a compelling interest to "promote marriage" and yet you didn't say how letting me legally marry and protect my partner and family "un-promotes" marriage.

seems to me it boils down to you not being "special" anymore.

We don't have to have a "compelling state reason" to get married, but you do have to provide an overriding harm in allowing it. You can't.

Why are you asking him to explain the fifference between homosexual behavior and race mixing? They are different, duh.

 

[The Rabbi]

How is the discrimination different?

People who engage in the sin of interracial marriage need to reflect upon the offspring they will parent. What race will these children identify with? We know of a child who asked her maternal grandmother when she would turn white like her. ... The above-mentioned child put powder all over herself one day, in an attempt to look like her mother. This, of course, did not work. It will never work, and this child will suffer for her mother's sin forever.

What God Says About Interracial Marriage

Because interracial marriage is not gay marriage. Therefore they are different. The state had no legitimate interest in promoting same race marriage over interracial marriage. That is not the case with gay marriage where the state has a compelling interest.
But you keep banging that drum and maybe someone will buy the bullshit.

Brilliant! "How is the discrimination different", I ask...

Rabbi's response? "It just is".

Truly brilliant!

You say the state has a compelling interest to "promote marriage" and yet you didn't say how letting me legally marry and protect my partner and family "un-promotes" marriage.

seems to me it boils down to you not being "special" anymore.

We don't have to have a "compelling state reason" to get married, but you do have to provide an overriding harm in allowing it. You can't.

Somehow I knew you'd miss the point completely.
It's different because it is different. Cabbage is not steak. Interracial marriage is not gay marriage. Quit trying to make them anything alike.
I dont give a shit about your "marriage". Neither should anyone else. But dont ask the rest of us to fund it.

The state has a compelling interest in promoting some marriages over others. This is simply fact.

 

[The Rabbi]

"We support the passage of a Constitutional Amendment THAT MARRIAGE IS BETWEEN A MAN AND WOMAN ONLY"
And you claim with a straight face that is not wanting to allow gay folks to get married.
You labeled the bill THE TENNESSEE MARRIAGE PROTECTION AMENDMENT
What are you protecting your self against there?
Hate to make you look real bad here as I tried to avoid that but you do not even know that Tennessee had EXISTING STATUTES that banned gay marriage and civil unions before your "protection" act.
You folks can marry your first cousins LEGALLY but gay folks can not get married.
You can marry under age 16 with a court order.
Fitting.
The Official Code Annotated in Tennessee specifically states "the LEGAL union of matrimony of ONLY ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN SHALL BE THE ONLY RECOGNIZED UNION IN THIS STATE"
That is the law and you claim there is no law there.
Give it up, your bull shit has been exposed as fraud.

You continue to say I claim things which I clearly don't.
Gays get married in TN all the time. Please show me a gay couple who got married and then got hauled off to jail for it. There is nothing illegal about 2 gays, or anyone else, marrying each other.
The state however does not recognize such marriages.

Do you need the state to recognize your marriage for it to be legitimate?

HAHAHA
I quoted the law that limits who can marry and gay folks are not in it.
A STATUTE, A LAW.
The law specifically states ONLY a certain group can get married.
Substitute "white" in there and you would not make up this dog and pony show of yours.
"Black folks get married in Tennessee all the time, they do not get hauled off to jail. There is nothing illegal about black folks marrying each other"
You do not even know how stupid you look hiding behind that fraud of an "argument".

Please quote the law that states who can marry. There is no such law. I've pointed this out a dozen times and you repeat the same drivel. If you repeat a lie often enough it doesn't make it true. It makes you an idiot.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I was not referring to small gene pool problems, I was referring to laws against incest as brought up in the OP.

Since I wrote the OP I can state categorically that you missed the whole point that the professor was making.

Think of the Children!

This argument is more relevant to incest than polygamy. Incest raises the risk of birth defects, or so we’ve been told. But the risks are reportedly small, and probably less than for parents over forty, or smokers, or those with certain hereditary diseases. If the government stepped in to regulate the decisions of potential parents on those grounds, we’d rightly dust off our “nanny state” bromides. This is the kind of thing we usually leave for people to decide for themselves. Here, too, the argument that marriage is about protecting the children sounds eerily familiar to the arguments trotted out against same-sex couples for years. And even if we wanted to intervene to protect the potential offspring of incestuous couples, there are things we could do (mandatory genetic counseling, for example) short of outright bans on their marriages.

The point he, and I, am trying to make is that you have to come up with better arguments than the standard ones you have, yet you keep trotting out the same idiotic argument, even after you admit that you have no explanation as to people with higher risk of passing on deleterious traits are allowed to reproduce without regulation.

Keep swinging though, sooner or later you will realize that you can't hit a fastball with a ping pong paddle.

>>> you can't hit a fastball with a ping pong paddle

You are trying to prove that because someone else is allowed to do wrong you should be allowed to do a different but similar wrong that is illegal. It makes no sense. It makes no sense because "fairness" is a myth. Didn't your mom teach you that?

Leave family out. Reported.

The rest is your false logic.

Live as you wish. Leave everyone else to do the same. All of you social traditionalist right wing statists' days are done. Get used to it.

 

[Circe]

Well, I've given up. Obviously there's a strong "Ick!" factor with most of the change going on now, and most of it is change never before seen in human history. And here it is right in our lifetimes, oh, nice.

Interracial marriage, men marrying men and women marrying women, a restoration of the Mormon polygamy plus a gazumpteen variation on the theme, legitimization of incest, etc.

There is nothing we can do about all this, as far as I can see, and it's spreading wildly all over the world.

So, why is unprecedented weirdness happening?

I assume it's because of gross, unprecedented overpopulation, the famous hockey stick: we had a billion people on the planet about 1800, now we have 7 billion and rising rapidly and it's causing panic: so Global Warming frauds start up to scare people into stopping this, and also there are many, many antinatalist themes that get promoted and adopted all over, such as "marriages" unproductive of children. Abortion is also an unprecedented easy option that has occurred in our lifetime and birth control --- many of us can remember only a few decades ago when that was next door to impossible, now it's easy.

But nothing works: the rise continues, at least in non-white lands.

We are in a race with the Reverend Malthus and want to cut the population before the Four Horsemen do it for us. We are an Outbreak, like diseases and caterpillars and plant molds --- it's rare for mammals to have an outbreak, but our species did, and all this craziness is an effort to cut births.

I suppose it's not as bad as nuclear war. Nuclear war on us, that is.

 

[Circe]

Leave family out. Reported.

Yow. I don't think that was about your family ------

You could be scary to talk to, JakeStarkey.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Leave family out. Reported.

Yow. I don't think that was about your family ------

You could be scary to talk to, JakeStarkey.

Read the rules, Circe. No family.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Well, I've given up. Obviously there's a strong "Ick!" factor with most of the change going on now, and most of it is change never before seen in human history. And here it is right in our lifetimes, oh, nice.

Interracial marriage, men marrying men and women marrying women, a restoration of the Mormon polygamy plus a gazumpteen variation on the theme, legitimization of incest, etc.

There is nothing we can do about all this, as far as I can see, and it's spreading wildly all over the world.

So, why is unprecedented weirdness happening?

I assume it's because of gross, unprecedented overpopulation, the famous hockey stick: we had a billion people on the planet about 1800, now we have 7 billion and rising rapidly and it's causing panic: so Global Warming frauds start up to scare people into stopping this, and also there are many, many antinatalist themes that get promoted and adopted all over, such as "marriages" unproductive of children. Abortion is also an unprecedented easy option that has occurred in our lifetime and birth control --- many of us can remember only a few decades ago when that was next door to impossible, now it's easy.

But nothing works: the rise continues, at least in non-white lands.

We are in a race with the Reverend Malthus and want to cut the population before the Four Horsemen do it for us. We are an Outbreak, like diseases and caterpillars and plant molds --- it's rare for mammals to have an outbreak, but our species did, and all this craziness is an effort to cut births.

I suppose it's not as bad as nuclear war. Nuclear war on us, that is.

Reasons: (1) increased population (2) vastly improved social media and personal communication (3) a growing sense of individualism and refusal to be judged by others

Good or bad: depends on one situational beliefs.

Don't like some of this stuff? Hint: don't do it.

 

[RKMBrown]

Since I wrote the OP I can state categorically that you missed the whole point that the professor was making.



The point he, and I, am trying to make is that you have to come up with better arguments than the standard ones you have, yet you keep trotting out the same idiotic argument, even after you admit that you have no explanation as to people with higher risk of passing on deleterious traits are allowed to reproduce without regulation.

Keep swinging though, sooner or later you will realize that you can't hit a fastball with a ping pong paddle.

>>> you can't hit a fastball with a ping pong paddle

You are trying to prove that because someone else is allowed to do wrong you should be allowed to do a different but similar wrong that is illegal. It makes no sense. It makes no sense because "fairness" is a myth. Didn't your mom teach you that?

Leave family out. Reported.

The rest is your false logic.

Live as you wish. Leave everyone else to do the same. All of you social traditionalist right wing statists' days are done. Get used to it.

You are just a lying prick quoting me out of context, changing my words, projecting vile crap against the wall.

 

[Redfish]

Well, I've given up. Obviously there's a strong "Ick!" factor with most of the change going on now, and most of it is change never before seen in human history. And here it is right in our lifetimes, oh, nice.

Interracial marriage, men marrying men and women marrying women, a restoration of the Mormon polygamy plus a gazumpteen variation on the theme, legitimization of incest, etc.

There is nothing we can do about all this, as far as I can see, and it's spreading wildly all over the world.

So, why is unprecedented weirdness happening?

I assume it's because of gross, unprecedented overpopulation, the famous hockey stick: we had a billion people on the planet about 1800, now we have 7 billion and rising rapidly and it's causing panic: so Global Warming frauds start up to scare people into stopping this, and also there are many, many antinatalist themes that get promoted and adopted all over, such as "marriages" unproductive of children. Abortion is also an unprecedented easy option that has occurred in our lifetime and birth control --- many of us can remember only a few decades ago when that was next door to impossible, now it's easy.

But nothing works: the rise continues, at least in non-white lands.

We are in a race with the Reverend Malthus and want to cut the population before the Four Horsemen do it for us. We are an Outbreak, like diseases and caterpillars and plant molds --- it's rare for mammals to have an outbreak, but our species did, and all this craziness is an effort to cut births.

I suppose it's not as bad as nuclear war. Nuclear war on us, that is.

Reasons: (1) increased population (2) vastly improved social media and personal communication (3) a growing sense of individualism and refusal to be judged by others

Good or bad: depends on one situational beliefs.

Don't like some of this stuff? Hint: don't do it.

A civilization with no moral and ethics is a doomed civilization. We are following the example of the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and Mayans. great civilizations destroyed by liberal thought.

 

[G.T.]

Well, I've given up. Obviously there's a strong "Ick!" factor with most of the change going on now, and most of it is change never before seen in human history. And here it is right in our lifetimes, oh, nice.

Interracial marriage, men marrying men and women marrying women, a restoration of the Mormon polygamy plus a gazumpteen variation on the theme, legitimization of incest, etc.

There is nothing we can do about all this, as far as I can see, and it's spreading wildly all over the world.

So, why is unprecedented weirdness happening?

I assume it's because of gross, unprecedented overpopulation, the famous hockey stick: we had a billion people on the planet about 1800, now we have 7 billion and rising rapidly and it's causing panic: so Global Warming frauds start up to scare people into stopping this, and also there are many, many antinatalist themes that get promoted and adopted all over, such as "marriages" unproductive of children. Abortion is also an unprecedented easy option that has occurred in our lifetime and birth control --- many of us can remember only a few decades ago when that was next door to impossible, now it's easy.

But nothing works: the rise continues, at least in non-white lands.

We are in a race with the Reverend Malthus and want to cut the population before the Four Horsemen do it for us. We are an Outbreak, like diseases and caterpillars and plant molds --- it's rare for mammals to have an outbreak, but our species did, and all this craziness is an effort to cut births.

I suppose it's not as bad as nuclear war. Nuclear war on us, that is.

Reasons: (1) increased population (2) vastly improved social media and personal communication (3) a growing sense of individualism and refusal to be judged by others

Good or bad: depends on one situational beliefs.

Don't like some of this stuff? Hint: don't do it.

A civilization with no moral and ethics is a doomed civilization. We are following the example of the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and Mayans. great civilizations destroyed by liberal thought.

Morals and ethics are subjective.

 

[RKMBrown]

Well, I've given up. Obviously there's a strong "Ick!" factor with most of the change going on now, and most of it is change never before seen in human history. And here it is right in our lifetimes, oh, nice.

Interracial marriage, men marrying men and women marrying women, a restoration of the Mormon polygamy plus a gazumpteen variation on the theme, legitimization of incest, etc.

There is nothing we can do about all this, as far as I can see, and it's spreading wildly all over the world.

So, why is unprecedented weirdness happening?

I assume it's because of gross, unprecedented overpopulation, the famous hockey stick: we had a billion people on the planet about 1800, now we have 7 billion and rising rapidly and it's causing panic: so Global Warming frauds start up to scare people into stopping this, and also there are many, many antinatalist themes that get promoted and adopted all over, such as "marriages" unproductive of children. Abortion is also an unprecedented easy option that has occurred in our lifetime and birth control --- many of us can remember only a few decades ago when that was next door to impossible, now it's easy.

But nothing works: the rise continues, at least in non-white lands.

We are in a race with the Reverend Malthus and want to cut the population before the Four Horsemen do it for us. We are an Outbreak, like diseases and caterpillars and plant molds --- it's rare for mammals to have an outbreak, but our species did, and all this craziness is an effort to cut births.

I suppose it's not as bad as nuclear war. Nuclear war on us, that is.

Reasons: (1) increased population (2) vastly improved social media and personal communication (3) a growing sense of individualism and refusal to be judged by others

Good or bad: depends on one situational beliefs.

Don't like some of this stuff? Hint: don't do it.

A civilization with no moral and ethics is a doomed civilization. We are following the example of the Romans, Greeks, Egyptians, and Mayans. great civilizations destroyed by liberal thought.

Last I checked Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians are still alive and kicking. How did liberal thought destroy the Mayans?