Zone1 Leftists, do you agree that kids should receive sex-change operations without parental knowing?

[AMart]

Everyone involved in ghoulish frankenstein mutilation is on an express elevator to hell. I would not want to be them.

 

[forkup]

The topic is teens getting sex change operations and other transsexual issues not race

Try your cutie pie debate shenanigans on someone else

It wasn't a debate tactic. It was the context of my quote you used. I think clarity is important.

So I'll repeat my point. How do you know that the current real problem some teens have with transgenders in showers, not bathrooms because I don't see how someone using a private stall next to another private stall should be enough reason to disallow people access to bathrooms couldn't be resolved by the simple expediency of letting shifting social norms take care of it?

 

[rampart]

Wait. Do you mean that a lot of white teens have a problem sharing a shower with a black one? Just so we're clear. Since my point was that societal norms can make previous taboos go away.

Mac-7 did you mean that children, who must learn to live and work together who have not learned to do so from their parents, should not be taught proper manners in school?

 

[Mac-7]

A person identifying with a different gender is rare. Changing their mind after is rarer still. In the end though it doesn't matter. Unless of course they've taken the drastic step of surgery.

What you're saying is that people should feel guilty for identifying with another gender because very rarely they change their mind later. A problem THEY not you, have to deal with if that occurs.

It seems to me that your problems with transgenders is exactly that. A problem you have.

Drugs being given to children alter their bodies and will affect them for the rest of their life

 

[Mac-7]

It wasn't a debate tactic. It was the context of my quote you used. I think clarity is important.

So I'll repeat my point. How do you know that the current real problem some teens have with transgenders in showers, not bathrooms because I don't see how someone using a private stall next to another private stall should be enough reason to disallow people access to bathrooms couldn't be resolved by the simple expediency of letting shifting social norms take care of it?

It makes rape and peeping toms more likely when men are free to go in the woman's bathroom

There is no good reason for society to run that risk

 

[Mac-7]

Mac-7 did you mean that children, who must learn to live and work together who have not learned to do so from their parents, should not be taught proper manners in school?

You mean forcing children to accept sexual deviants as normal?

That's a terrible idea

 

[forkup]

Drugs being given to children alter their bodies and will affect them for the test of their life

Children only get those drugs under supervision of medical professionals. It's not like you simply go to a pharmacy and pick them up like it's Tylenol. Again, most children who get these drugs are much more comfortable after.

Let me put it like this. Not allowing those drugs for children who want and need them cause some of them to commit suicide. In fact, and I won't say I have data to support it, this is more common than children changing their mind after they have been given gender affirming care. I dare say being dead has a more profound effect than having to live with the effects of been given hormones when you're young.

 

[Seymour Flops]

I believe that some boys feel like they're born in the wrong body and are more comfortable as a girl. In fact, I know people like that have been around throughout history. Biologically they are still male. I don't see a problem though for them to be legally classified as female. Which is what they're asking.

Forkup, you're a smart guy, so I'm hoping for an intelligent answer to this:

Why do Democrats, woke, liberals, or whatever you want to call them do that? Minimize what is happening to children who receive "gender affirming care?"

This thread is not about people who believe they are in the wrong body wanting to be "legally classified" as the sex/gender they believe they really are. It is about children young enough that parental consent is normally required for any medical treatment having their bodies surgically treated and altered in ways that hinder their normal healthy physical development, and sometimes destroy or remove vital organs, such as breasts, vaginas, penises, and testicles.

What perplexes me is that you know this. I won't even entertain the notion that an intelligent poster like you does not know it. So why pretend otherwise? You absolutely saw the question, understood what the OP was asking, but then decided to join the thread by pretending the question was something else.

Why the subterfuge?

You're not the only progressive who does this. All of them do, on this topic. With the others, I don't bother to ask them why, because I know why.

I often disagree with you, but up until this very post, you have always been straightforward in what you believe and offered reasonable arguments for it. Yet on this one topic, you have to lie to even participate in the discussion.

Why?

 

[forkup]

It makes rape and peeping toms more likely when men are free to go in the woman's bathroom

There is no good reason for society to run that risk

Why is it that being transgender apparently makes rape more likely?

 

[Mac-7]

Children only get those drugs under supervision of medical professionals.

“Professionals” have no business giving drugs to children without the parents permission

 

[Mac-7]

Why is it that being transgender apparently makes rape more likely?

When any man is free to visit the womens bathroom you cannot know he’s a 100% transsexual

 

[forkup]

Forkup, you're a smart guy, so I'm hoping for an intelligent answer to this:

Why do Democrats, woke, liberals, or whatever you want to call them do that? Minimize what is happening to children who receive "gender affirming care?"

This thread is not about people who believe they are in the wrong body wanting to be "legally classified" as the sex/gender they believe they really are. It is about children young enough that parental consent is normally required for any medical treatment having their bodies surgically treated and altered in ways that hinder their normal healthy physical development, and sometimes destroy or remove vital organs, such as breasts, vaginas, penises, and testicles.

What perplexes me is that you know this. I won't even entertain the notion that an intelligent poster like you does not know it. So why pretend otherwise? You absolutely saw the question, understood what the OP was asking, but then decided to join the thread by pretending the question was something else.

Why the subterfuge?

You're not the only progressive who does this. All of them do, on this topic. With the others, I don't bother to ask them why, because I know why.

I often disagree with you, but up until this very post, you have always been straightforward in what you believe and offered reasonable arguments for it. Yet on this one topic, you have to lie to even participate in the discussion.

Why?

his is what the bill does. First it doesn't say that children can simply go to California to get sex-change surgeries. What it does say that when theirs a dispute over it a judge CAN decide to allow gender affirming care. Not WILL. Sex-change surgeries on minors do need permission from at least a parent.

As for the question itself.

I can imagine situations where this would make sense. Broken home. One parent who has custody sees that the child is in need of gender affirming care. The other parent who is at odds doesn't want to allow it. What is the solution that's best for the kid here?

The problem here is that you and people like you have decided that the trans community is your enemy. Because being homophobic has gone out of style. So now it's a convenient cultural issue that with the proper misinformation is a political boon.

After all. "Democrats want to allow doctors to cut off little children's penises" sounds bad and is easily understood to be bad for those that don't bother to actually look at what's really going on.

This is my complete answer to the topic of the OP.

Do you believe that a boy can become a girl?

This is what the quote was in response too.

So what subterfuge are you referring too. I responded straightforwardly to the question that was asked, AFTER I engaged the premise of the OP.

 

[forkup]

“Professionals” have no business giving drugs to children without the parents permission

And they aren't doing so, unless in some very rare cases where it is a judge who makes these decisions. At least in California.

 

[surada]

Do you believe that a boy can become a girl?

Lolol now you change the discussion . How cowardly.

 

[forkup]

When any man is free to visit the womens bathroom you cannot know he’s a 100% transsexual

Nor does not having a law allowing a transsexual to enter a womans bathroom prevent a rapist from entering.

I don't see how the law makes it more likely.

 

[Mac-7]

And they aren't doing so, unless in some very rare cases where it is a judge who makes these decisions. At least in California.

Bullshit

A judge should not have the authority to overrule parents when it comes to sex change drugs

 

[Mac-7]

Nor does not having a law allowing a transsexual to enter a womans bathroom prevent a rapist from entering.

I don't see how the law makes it more likely.

If men are not allowed in women’s bathrooms a rapist will not have much time time to accomplish his goal before someone calls the cops

 

[HeyNorm]

-Most bathrooms I've ever seen are closed off. One person one stall. So why is bathrooms a problem?
-Showers are another matter, because I'm aware that some biological females would be uncomfortable with a biological male in the shower. On the other hand, in the 1950's most whites wouldn't have dreamed sharing a shower with a black person. Now, I don't think many high school kids find it problematic. Society adapts to shifting social norms.

- Sports is in my view the only reasonable objection. Although I will also say that social norms play a part here too. Sports at its base is about a fair contest, and a biological male has by definition some physical advantages. But here again I have to ask where draw the line? I've played sports my entire life. Even did so semi-professional. I'm average height, average weight, and average build. And I truly believe that it was this lack of exceptional physique that kept me from going full pro. I had both the technical ability and determination to excel. Would you accept my argument that only average people can compete because of this?

Both bathrooms and showers are sex segregated for not only privacy, but safety issues as well.

 

[Seymour Flops]

This is my complete answer to the topic of the OP.

This is what the quote was in response too.

So what subterfuge are you referring too. I responded straightforwardly to the question that was asked, AFTER I engaged the premise of the OP.

You're still being dishonest. Still minimizing to avoid discussing the actual topic.

Surgery is included in "gender affirming care." Underage people have had organs removed. Under these California law the can do it without parental consent but "consent" from a judge.That is the topic of the thread.

Your posts are like arguing against banning the death penalty by claiming no one actually gets executed.

 

[JoeB131]

Apparently, children can travel to California and get sex-change surgeries without their parents knowledge or consent. Do you support that?

I would depend on the case. If you had one parent who took him to the doctor, but the other parent is a religious bigot, then, yes, I can see where they should be able to get gender affirming care. .