Legalize it!

[Vast LWC]

The funny thing is that Pharma companies are selling drugs that are the equivalent of Cocaine or Meth right now, as a treatment for ADD:

Adderall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's just as addictive, and has the same damn effects as the narcotics I mentioned, but apparently it's legal because the Pharmas make money hand-over-fist from selling it.

In fact, if it's sold outside of the normal ways, it's a schedule III narcotic.

But as long as a college student fakes ADD to the school psychologist, they can get all they want.

 

[MikeK]

[...]

Starting off with legal drugs, I've had the opinion that cigarette smoking and tobacco use is so physically addicting that the best approach would be removing purchasing it from the general public. What gave me the concept was noticing how hard liquor was dealt with in Onslow County, North Carolina, when I was stationed at Camp Lejeune.[...]

The mention of Onslow County in your message rang a memory gong. I haven't heard that name in quite some time.

I was stationed at LeJeune from '57, when returning from Okinawa to '60, when I separated (the happiest day of my life). I don't remember anything about the ABC stores, etc., because I've never cared much for alcohol. I would nurse a few bottles of beer in the Jazzland and the Double Eagle bars in Jacksonville because it facilitated getting next to the waitresses, a few of whom I managed to romance -- that being the only recreation which kept me sane.

I was 1345, Engineer, attached to artillery: HQ Btry, 3rd Bn, 10th Rg., which as I recall was located in the 500 area.

So, Semper Fi!

 

[Dubya]

[...]

Starting off with legal drugs, I've had the opinion that cigarette smoking and tobacco use is so physically addicting that the best approach would be removing purchasing it from the general public. What gave me the concept was noticing how hard liquor was dealt with in Onslow County, North Carolina, when I was stationed at Camp Lejeune.[...]

The mention of Onslow County in your message rang a memory gong. I haven't heard that name in quite some time.

I was stationed at LeJeune from '57, when returning from Okinawa to '60, when I separated (the happiest day of my life). I don't remember anything about the ABC stores, etc., because I've never cared much for alcohol. I would nurse a few bottles of beer in the Jazzland and the Double Eagle bars in Jacksonville because it facilitated getting next to the waitresses, a few of whom I managed to romance -- that being the only recreation which kept me sane.

I was 1345, Engineer, attached to artillery: HQ Btry, 3rd Bn, 10th Rg., which as I recall was located in the 500 area.

So, Semper Fi!

Semper Fi!

Jazzland sounds familiar. When I was there that whole main street of Jacksonville was bars and stores, mostly clothing and watches is what I remember. The bars were all dark, painted black with go-go dancers in lighted areas. We called that area the strip. I grew tired of it and their expensive beer quickly, so I would go to that USO on a street west of there for pool and music. I heard about some bar near the edge of town that others went to, but they said it was country. I'd go up to Delaware on weekends and eventually started hitchhiking up and taking the bus back to save half the money. I did it through the winter and sometimes I would buy a small bottle of Ginger Brandy to take with me. I was engaged before I entered the Marines, was married and had our first son at the Naval Hospital in Lejeune. I took auto mech training at Montford Point, where they once trained the Blacks. It was within walking distance of J-ville and later I was stationed near the PX, but I doubt it was built when you were there. It was across from the power plant in the main base area. I only worked as a mechanic for a few days and was taken up to the company office, because I could type. I started in files, went to SRB school and eventually took over as Admin Chief. I even managed to get the cheap apartment of our Sgt., when he left to go back to Louisiana. I left Friday, Jan. 11, 1974, because my date to leave fell on a Sunday.

 

[Dubya]

The funny thing is that Pharma companies are selling drugs that are the equivalent of Cocaine or Meth right now, as a treatment for ADD:

Adderall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's just as addictive, and has the same damn effects as the narcotics I mentioned, but apparently it's legal because the Pharmas make money hand-over-fist from selling it.

In fact, if it's sold outside of the normal ways, it's a schedule III narcotic.

But as long as a college student fakes ADD to the school psychologist, they can get all they want.

One of the last things they prescribed meth for was hyperactivity in children. It sounds counter intuitive, but they claim it worked. The other use was for extreme obesity.

Like other stimulant drugs, such as methamphetamine and cocaine, Adderall directly affects the mesolimbic reward pathway in the brain. Amphetamine salt preparations are considered to have high abuse potential, and it is classified as Schedule II by the US DEA. With the Safe Streets and Communities Act in Canada, Adderall has been reclassified from Schedule III to Schedule I.[5]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall

 

[Vast LWC]

One of the last things they prescribed meth for was hyperactivity in children. It sounds counter intuitive, but they claim it worked. The other use was for extreme obesity.

Did not know that. Fascinating.

 

[Dubya]

While I believe sweeping legalization of all presently banned drugs would be a bad idea because it would occur as a traumatic transition and if the effect were severely negative it would be difficult to regain control. A much better approach to weaning away from the existing brute force drug war would be to decriminalize marijuana. Then, when the public becomes accustomed to that level of relaxation, establish regulations for production and distribution to adults according to the existing liquor distribution model.

The next step could be registered addict access to inexpensive, clinically pure and measured doses of heroin along with sterile needles and syringes. This step would immediately produce a substantial reduction in existing levels of crime typically associated with heroin junkies (burglary, shoplifting, auto theft, street level prostitution, etc). Make treatment and gradual withdrawal programs available to addicts who are interested.

Beyond that I won't speculate on further steps where other, more dangerous and destructive, drugs are concerned. But having managed to break away from the wholly counterproductive brute force approach to dealing with marijuana and heroin use the acquired experience might suggest a potentially useful approach to such really hard drugs as freebase cocaine and amphetamines.

One thing I will suggest is the same approach which has been eminently successful in dealing with cigarette smoking, which is realistic and motivated public education. That method is what encouraged me to quit smoking cigarettes after my 35 year addiction to them and there is no question that cigarette smoking has substantially decreased.

As for those who simply cannot, or will not, break away from compulsive use or the really hard drugs, your suggestion of voluntary isolation with unlimited access to one's choice of poison is the best idea I can think of. Because I strongly believe degenerate hard core drug use is slow-motion suicide.

I don't think a particular political ideology or philosophical approach can deal with all drugs, because they all have their unique properties and ways of affecting society.

Starting off with legal drugs, I've had the opinion that cigarette smoking and tobacco use is so physically addicting that the best approach would be removing purchasing it from the general public. What gave me the concept was noticing how hard liquor was dealt with in Onslow County, North Carolina, when I was stationed at Camp Lejeune. We could buy beer and wine in a Mom and Pop store, but the beer was only 3.2% alcohol, which is good for that hot climate. To buy anything stronger than wine, you had to go to the ABC store, which stands for Alcohol Beverage Commission. These stores weren't allowed to have advertisement and were only allowed to have an ABC sign outside. I'm fairly sure there was also a law that they had to be a separated from other shopping areas, so what I remember was a plain brick building with only an ABC sign above the door. They didn't even have advertisement inside the store to suggest a product. You definitely had the feeling going there that you were a social outcast from the citizens of that county, tolerated, but not appreciated. I figured the best thing to do with cigarettes was to phase quickly out the machines and do a similar phase out for other places that sold cigarettes and tobacco products. I figured around a two year phase out period and placing future sales in tobacco or liquor stores where strict ID applied, meaning anyone even looking close to being underage is carded, with stiff penalties up to losing your license for serving a minor. I'm not saying the businesses have to be like those ABC stores, but concept is to remove advertising and restrict the product to special locations for sales, just like all alcohol is restricted to only liquor stores in my state. My hope was such a system would prevent a new generation of smokers or drastically cut their numbers down. Other common sense measures like warning of the dangers of smoking in schools a couple of times a year starting at a fairly young age was also part of my concept. I never considered taxing and raising the price of an addicting substance to be a just idea considering many started smoking before the harmful effects were known and it was encouraged.

I'd suggest a similar approach to marijuana, but I don't like these stores in cities taking advantage of the high cost of pot and governments gaming the system. Pot could be put in liquor and tobacco stores, just like cigarettes. Pot is so harmless, I say legalize it except for exports, which is a treaty violation. I'd like to see it kept so cheap that there is no black market interest in it, just like there wouldn't be black market interest in cigarettes without the taxes. My state doesn't have a sales tax, but the only tax on pot should be the normal sales tax in states that raise revenue that way. Most people would just grow and freeze their own supply of pot, so all that money saved would be able to be spent on more productive products in our society. Obviously, I firmly support progressive taxation to the point of removing all excise taxes, except on a short list of luxury goods. I don't even believe in highway tolls or other hidden taxes.

I have a similar approach to you about heroin and other truly harmful drugs. I don't want users thrown in jail, but I want mandatory involvement in a program to deal with their drug problems, whether Methadone or whatever is the answer. The solution is to allow them to quickly plead guilty and get involved in dealing with their drug problems. They should be treated like sick people, but placed on probation with lose of liberty, so they can be checked in their homes. They should be required to surrender firearms. Care should be taken in devising any type of counseling or treatment program, because patronage and graft are often the rule and not the exception. The politicians will hand programs over to a fat cat, who will jack up the costs for their own profit. The rule of thumb should be find the cheapest way to effectively accomplish it and use existing government facilities that are owned and not rented, whenever possible. It's important to keep the costs low, because the people possessing the drugs are going to pay for it, which is a great incentive to get other heroin users and addicts involved to help pay the costs. A drug user without income should be a sure sign of other criminal behavior and alert immediate concern. I would make reporting for treatment or counseling a daily or every other day requirement, even if it's only a brief visit and stress frequent random drug testing.

With heroin and other harmful drugs on the user and dealer level, I'd suggest rewards for turning in the dealer or other dealers would work. Care should be taken that the award isn't used up in drugs, even with the person in a program, so the reward can be mostly or totally kept on the books for their treatment. The first step in dealing with a dealer is to lock them up to determine if they are a dealer or a user dealer and their behavior will usually allow that to be known, even if they are quickly out on bail, instead of pleading guilty. The solution really becomes carrot and stick police work at that level, if the person will not cooperate and get treatment. User dealers should be allowed to enter treatment whether incarcerated or not, but that has to be done with care to make sure they aren't dealing heroin or any drug for a living. I think it would be smart for Judges to require personal background checks as a condition of bail for anyone found in possession of drugs. The system should be interested in how the person lives and makes their money at that point and not later. Since a citizen has the right to a speedy trial, I'd give people caught with drugs every benefit of that right, even if I had to hold night court. Think about it, you get caught with a small amount of drugs, arrested and given a chance to plead guilty, when bail is set at a magistrate arraignment level, which can send you to a program. If the person chooses to plead not guilty or is caught with larger quantities of drug, they are quickly arraigned at the next court level, even if it's night court. If they continue to plead not guilty and want a jury trial, they're going to quickly get that wish, even if it's night court. Along the way the person can be sent to the prosecutor's office to review a possible deal. I personally think dealing with these drug cases quickly will eventually save a lot of court time, but some initial overtime may be required. The same quick path to justice and dealing with authorities like the prosecutor cutting a deal for a guilty plea could reduce a backlog of other cases and allow more concentation on important cases. The cops could even start the process by showing the person arrested what lies ahead with more specific and realistic details prepared by the prosecution, after giving them their rights and questioning them on video.

I still think the best way to deal with /cocaine/crack/coca is to destroy the plantations growing it before the March harvest, every two years if need be. Opium poppies are a different matter. Let's face it we are in Afghanistan and nothing has been done, but to increase production. I would think meth labs would have a unique chemical signature that could be traced. Doctors should be required to report the prescription drugs they prescribe and the pharmacy should check to see if the prescription has been reported. The doctor's ID, prescription number, date and the amount and type of drug is all the information required to identify a pill mill and the data can be checked by simple computer programs to locate criminal activity.

As previously mentioned, I don't even speculate on projected methods of eliminating the primary sources for such substances as cocaine and heroin. The main reason for this is I don't believe the substances, per se, are the problem so much as is the psychology of the individual users.

Assuming your projected means of destroying the sources of these subsances are workable, with your obvious background in chemistry you know better than I that if the sources of coca and opium are permanently eliminated it will be a matter of time before some outlaw Ph.D. synthesizes something with equal or greater destructive potential, which will turn up on the same street corners as its predecessors. E.g., I'm recalling that it wasn't long after quaalude was eliminated that MDMA (Ecstasy) popped up.

I believe that marijuana should be legalized mainly because the basis for its prohibition is predicated on gross exaggerations and outright lies. There is no good reason to prohibit adults from enjoying the benefits available from responsible use of this natural euphoric tranquilizer. As far as distribution is concerned, every effort, including the imposition of severe criminal penalties, should be made to preclude access by minors. But availability should occur along the same lines as the existing liquor distribution model, with appropriate penalties for bootleg distribution.

Where the harder drugs are concerned, I am guided by the belief that there are two distinctly different categories of addict. There are those (Type-A) who became addicted via frivolous experimentation but who wish to be free of their compulsion. And there are those (Type-B) whose innately addictive personality is rooted in a profoundly self-destructive orientation. And as any competent behavioral professional will attest, because of certain indelible characteristics the determinedly self-destructive personality is rarely responsive to even the most extensive and intensive psychotherapy.

I believe most Type-A examples can be prevented by realistic and intelligently designed public education programs -- which must include exposure to the ugly realities of drug addiction. But those who are Type-B, the socially useless, down-and-out junkies whose addiction to dangerous drugs is a primary manifestation of their essentially suicidal nature, should be isolated from society, afforded the basic essentials of civilized existence, provided with as much of their drug of choice as desired, and allowed to fulfill their subliminal death wish apart from mainstream society.

The single exception to the isolation of Type-B being the filming of their miseries and degradation for use in anti-drug abuse public education programs. Show these films in schools and let children, especially those with Type-A potential, see what crack, smack, and meth can do to them.

Those are my thoughts on the subject.

Coca is a bush that grows big enough to be called a tree. The seeds are planted during the rainy season around December to January and take about a year and a half to mature enough to harvest. The main harvest is in March, but there is another harvest at the end of June and from October to November. Only the fresh growth leaves are harvested and coca can live for around 40 years. It's grown on plantations in South America with union pickers in Bolivia. They've developed herbicide resistant varieties, but they don't resist a sharp machete. Once dried in place it can be set on fire. The herbicides that could do the trick are very toxic to the environment and people, you'd be having cancers for years. Napalm would work, but it would take getting the people warned away and a lot of it. Coca leaf is consumed so much in South America that destroying the plantations would be enough to stop exports. It's still used in Coca Cola as a flavoring with the drug removed.

The problem is these are rogue countries and they don't care what damage they do in other areas of the world. Heroin isn't as big of a problem in the US as it is in other countries, but it takes a lot of effort to cut the capsules before they flower and gather the opium latex. The plant is so hardy, it's essentially a weed if you are trying to get rid of it. Eventually all the seeds in the ground will be exhausted, but I would think it may take seven years or so to totally eradicate it from an area. These rogue areas growing drugs are also under the control of the people wanting to profit from the drug. It isn't like you can buy it from the source.

 

[Jarlaxle]

One of the last things they prescribed meth for was hyperactivity in children. It sounds counter intuitive, but they claim it worked. The other use was for extreme obesity.

Did not know that. Fascinating.

Ritalin is an amphetamine.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

The funny thing is that Pharma companies are selling drugs that are the equivalent of Cocaine or Meth right now, as a treatment for ADD:

Adderall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's just as addictive, and has the same damn effects as the narcotics I mentioned, but apparently it's legal because the Pharmas make money hand-over-fist from selling it.

In fact, if it's sold outside of the normal ways, it's a schedule III narcotic.

But as long as a college student fakes ADD to the school psychologist, they can get all they want.

One of the last things they prescribed meth for was hyperactivity in children. It sounds counter intuitive, but they claim it worked. The other use was for extreme obesity.

That wasn't Methedrine.

It was Dexedrine.

....And, combat-pilots LOVE 'EM!!!!!

 

[Mr. Shaman]

February 26 2013

Nobel Prize (For DNA Pioneer Francis Crick); On The Auction Block​

January 16, 2012

Better Living Thru Chemistry!​

"Francis Crick reportedly told numerous friends and colleagues about his LSD experimentation during the time he spent working to determine the molecular structure that houses all life's information."

​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Cats On DOPE!!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3scQ0wq5zLE]CATNIP: EGRESS TO OBLIVION? - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[purplemonkey84]

Check out a new episode of Weed Country this Wednesday on Discovery Channel. I watched it last week and now I'm hooked.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Check out a new episode of Weed Country this Wednesday on Discovery Channel. I watched it last week and now I'm hooked.

Here's another for you......


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Qnwp6J7P20]Marijuana Inc. on MSNBC with Al Roker - Part 1 of 5 - YouTube[/ame]
*

*
​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

Check out a new episode of Weed Country this Wednesday on Discovery Channel. I watched it last week and now I'm hooked.

Yeah....I (finally) caught the first-two shows.....and, it's (merely) one, more "reality"-show.

Too-many situations appear scripted....and, the local-cops act like MEGA-assholes!!!!

*

This is considered a good bust....this mangy, little "garden"??!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZStbap1xS8g]Marijuana Takedown | Weed Country - YouTube[/ame]

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Episode 2 "featured" the asshole-cops, fairly-well.

They HAD to be "putting-on", for the show. There can't possibly (still) be cops this fuckin' stupid, anymore....especially in No. Cali.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpXhDmttwTw]Weed country ep2 - YouTube[/ame]​

 

[Dubya]

The funny thing is that Pharma companies are selling drugs that are the equivalent of Cocaine or Meth right now, as a treatment for ADD:

Adderall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's just as addictive, and has the same damn effects as the narcotics I mentioned, but apparently it's legal because the Pharmas make money hand-over-fist from selling it.

In fact, if it's sold outside of the normal ways, it's a schedule III narcotic.

But as long as a college student fakes ADD to the school psychologist, they can get all they want.

One of the last things they prescribed meth for was hyperactivity in children. It sounds counter intuitive, but they claim it worked. The other use was for extreme obesity.

That wasn't Methedrine.

It was Dexedrine.

....And, combat-pilots LOVE 'EM!!!!!

You haven't followed what was said.

I know the difference between the two drugs and know the last two things meth was prescirbed for was extreme life threatening obesity and extremely hyperactive children. Meth was once a legal prescription drug and I haven't checked it's status since the early to mid '80s. The fact that amphetamines are prescribed for things like ADHD isn't surprising to someone who has seen the history of the drugs used.

 

[Mr. Shaman]

One of the last things they prescribed meth for was hyperactivity in children. It sounds counter intuitive, but they claim it worked. The other use was for extreme obesity.

That wasn't Methedrine.

It was Dexedrine.

....And, combat-pilots LOVE 'EM!!!!!

You haven't followed what was said.

I know the difference between the two drugs and know the last two things meth was prescirbed for was extreme life threatening obesity and extremely hyperactive children. Meth was once a legal prescription drug and I haven't checked it's status since the early to mid '80s. The fact that amphetamines are prescribed for things like ADHD isn't surprising to someone who has seen the history of the drugs used.

Methedrine was THE drug that fueled Hitler, the German Army (See; Blitzkreig) & Japan's ground-combat troops.​

 

[Mr. Shaman]

One of the last things they prescribed meth for was hyperactivity in children. It sounds counter intuitive, but they claim it worked. The other use was for extreme obesity.

That wasn't Methedrine.

It was Dexedrine.

....And, combat-pilots LOVE 'EM!!!!!

You haven't followed what was said.

I know the difference between the two drugs and know the last two things meth was prescirbed for was extreme life threatening obesity and extremely hyperactive children.

No, it wasn't Methedrine. It was......

....Dexedrine!!

Diet Pills

 

[Dubya]

That wasn't Methedrine.

It was Dexedrine.

​

You haven't followed what was said.

I know the difference between the two drugs and know the last two things meth was prescirbed for was extreme life threatening obesity and extremely hyperactive children.

No, it wasn't Methedrine. It was......

....Dexedrine!!

Diet Pills

If you trace what was said, we were only talking about meth. You don't know what the hell you are talking about.

 

[maxamus]

Legalize it but make the penalties for things like driving while under the influence or commiting a crime while stoned VERY harsh, like 10 to 20 years.

 

[maxamus]

And everyone needs to stop comparing weed to alcohol, that is so stupid, two different things. Why don't we compare weed to say oregano? See how stupid that sounds?

 

[GuyPinestra]

Legalize it but make the penalties for things like driving while under the influence or commiting a crime while stoned VERY harsh, like 10 to 20 years.

You'll have all kinds of problems with enforcement. Marijuana isn't metabolized like alcohol or other drugs. It stays in your fat cells for 30 days, which means you can be completely sober and still register positive.

Besides, I don't think anyone has shown the kind of loss of motor skills that would justify that kind of draconian punishment. The marijuana smokers I know slow down and chill out when driving, becoming much SAFER on the road.