Let the States Decide- ALA Supreme Court Justice urges Defiance- Gay Marraige

[Skylar]

Nobody is hostile against people who want to have gay sex together. People advocating for children (who cannot vote) having access to both a mother and father in marriage for their best psychological welfare (Prince's Trust study; the largest of its kind) does not equal animus towards people being homosexual with each other.

Knock yourselves out. Just don't call it marriage. Bulimics feel complusion to vomit after they eat. Their condition is intractable. Yet we don't call what they do "normal eating" ..and model that to successive generations of kids just to make bulimics feel better..

Your beloved and often cited Prince's Trust doesn't study or even mention gay parents. I have asked you on several occasions to show me exactly where the study mentions gay parents. It doesn't. And instead of owning up to the error you ignore and pretend that it does anyway. You can ignore the fact that your study doesn't mention/study gay parents but you cannot make the rest of us do the same.

I suspect both of our posts will ignored by Sil.

It doesn't mention any kind of parenting. It doesn't mention marriage. It doesn't mention the source of good role models. That could be parents. Or siblings. Or friends. Or aunts and uncles. Or grandparents. Or clergy. Or coworkers. Or fellow students. Or teachers. Or mentors.

The Prince Trust Study never says, as it doesn't measure any of it. Yet Silo bizarrely concludes that the only possible source for positive role models is parents. And then just as bizarrely insists that because of this we should ban gay marriage. As if banning gay marriage would magically mean that all children of same sex couples have hetero parents.

The two have nothing to do with each other. His claims are just a disjointed mess from beginning to end.

All that matters to Sil is the narrative.

Honestly, I think he's building his own mythology preemptively.

I strongly suspect Sil knows what's coming. So he's preparing his basis of outrage ahead of time. The 'Prince Trust Study'....which doesn't say anything he claims it does. The '56 citations in the Windsor decision'....when the Windsor decision never even mentions gay marriage bans. Let alone rules on them.

And his straight up desperate, willful ignorance of any study that contradicts him, any mention of constitutional guarantees in the Windsor decision, or any mention in the Windsor decision of the harm caused children by the denial of gay marriage.

What we're seeing is a blue print for how he plans on lying to himself come June.

I can't wait b/c it should be very entertaining.

Oh, undoubtedly it will include claims that the court 'ignored Windsor'. Which, of course, they didn't. And that they 'ignored the Price Trust Study'. Despite the Prince Trust Study never even mentioning same sex parenting. And include such colorful words as 'treason' and 'coup' and 'revolution' and 'tyranny' and all sorts of other panty shitting hysterics.

This is the same soul that gave us the 'end of civilization if we treat EBOLA patients' schtick. So you can pretty much set your watch to mascara running melodrama come June.

 

[danielpalos]

Windsor is irrelevant to the privileges and immunities of the citizens in the several States, and Electorate of the United States.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Meanwhile, in the real world:

'Starting Monday morning in the state of Alabama, probate offices throughout the state will begin issuing same sex marriage licenses. This, after a federal court denied the state's request to delay a lower court's ruling that overturns Alabama's gay marriage ban. It has been met with much opposition from Montgomery.

Probate offices in both Baldwin and Mobile Counties will be prepared to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples. Changes have already been made to the marriage license application to accommodate those couples. Probate Judge Tim Russell in Baldwin County said he'll follow the law, but isn't sure what to expect.

“I don't know of any office that issues marriage licenses through the probate offices that will not be issuing them on Monday,” Russell noted.

Russell said it's his office's responsibility to issue licenses for the state as required by law. He said it's not a judicial decision he's making, but instead an administrative issue.

“I'm obeying the law that I've been instructed by my attorneys to follow and that is to issue the licenses that we're required to by the federal ruling,” he explained.'

Probate offices prepare to issue same sex marriage licenses - MyFoxAL.com - FOX6 WBRC Birmingham AL

It's encouraging to hear there are at least some officers of the state who respect the rule of law.

 

[The Rabbi]

Alabama needs to stand firm against federal tyranny.

 

[danielpalos]

Alabama needs to stand firm against federal tyranny.

What federal tyranny is that?

Article 4, Section 2 was ratified by the several States.
The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

 

[Geaux4it]

Alabama needs to stand firm against federal tyranny.

What federal tyranny is that?

Article 4, Section 2 was ratified by the several States.
The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

Good... Then that means my non-resident CCW's from Florida and Arizona must be recognized by California too?

-Geaux

 

[The Rabbi]

Alabama needs to stand firm against federal tyranny.

What federal tyranny is that?

Article 4, Section 2 was ratified by the several States.
The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

Marriage is neither a privilege nor an immunity.
On your argument I should be entitled t tax breaks because VW got tax breaks when they located a factory here.

 

[Seawytch]

They do? Who does that? Name them?

Here are a few, Skylar, Syriusly, World Watcher and JakeStarkey

I need links and exact quotes of what you're talking about. Saying they want to "freeze the system" is a little vague.

LOL, you don't have a college degree, but you have the equivalent. Literacy is the most basic college skill, you aren't even reading at a high school graduate level.

Nope, no college degree. I was a little busy serving my country and enjoying it. Then I got a really good job serving my community when I retired.

You know, you could just say you were mistaken again and can't provide any proof instead of being insulting, but that's your MO.

If I don't insult you, I'm going to put you on ignore. I realize you have no long term memory, but I've told you numerous times I have two modes, serious and fun. To get in my serious mode, you have to read, process and lucidly respond to my posts. Something you have consistently proven incapable of doing.

Oh look...more deflection. Still can't provide that evidence? Yeah, you keep promising that you're going to ignore me...but just can't stay away.

As for the military, contrary to what a lot of liberals think they do have minimum standards. I believe literacy is one of them, which makes your claim to have spent 20 years in the up or out military dubious at best. You can't read a three line post and comprehend it.

I not only met, but exceeded the standards, thanks. My comprehension skills are just fine. You do seem to accuse a lot of people of having a comprehension problem, though. Logically most would conclude that the problem seems to be with you.

Whether you believe in the existence of my DD214 or not doesn't make it any less real.

 

[Seawytch]

I feel sorry for you, you are broken and will never ,now, and you will never ever ,now the pain within your children, I can see from your advocacy that you have created an environment in which your, "kids", can not express themselves without hurting you.

Thanks for sharing your opinion but our children are fine. We communicate very well with our children and they have no problem expressing themselves.

Our 13 year old daughter, after talking to one of her classmates on the phone, came out and thanked us for still loving each other and being married to each other. See, all but one of her best friends come from divorced homes. All of my son's friends have divorced parents and they tell my son all the time that they love coming to our house and love HIS parents. Truly, save your pity for those kids. They're already fucked up from the divorce and their still in their teens.

Are you the biological mother or is there no real mother in your, "family". No real mother would be a worst case scenario.

You're against all adoption? You want kids forever in orphanages? Jesus fucking Christ are you living in Dicken's London?

I gave birth to our children but we are both their parents...legally and emotionally.

Of course I am humoring you, there is no way you have, "kids", I think you are simply a troll, maybe a Eunuch, which reminds me, "In the World of the Seawytch the Eunuch raises the children".

I've given birth to five babies. Two are mine and my wife's and three were for a gay male couple. They used a donor egg and their sperm. I actually believe the twins had two different fathers. Whether you believe in their existence or not, they do exist and they are costing me a fortune. I've got to make a Costco and commissary trip just to feed them for the next week.

I forgot all about that, now I will simply laugh at you, that was a bit ago, right, "Gender-less Parenting".

In the land of the Seawytch, the Eunuch raises the child.

I'm still attributing your misunderstanding to the fact that English is not your native language. I never said gender-less parenting, I said the gender of parents has no bearing on child raising. Children need a nurturer and a structurer for the best outcomes. Which parent provides those does not matter but it is why two parent homes are the ideal.

A 13 year old in a house without a father will have much in common with 13 year olds who's parents get divorced, no difference there. I am not sure if you had a point in there, but the irony is you claim your daughter has something they do not when your daughter lives in a home without a father, you need not divorce to put your "daughter" in the same situation. It already exists for her.

Actually, there is a great deal of difference in a household of married parents who still love each other and divorced parents. Its one of the reasons we always seem to have kids over here and why our kids don't want to go to their friends houses...the chaos and disruption of two households.

My daughter has met her donor. She likes him okay, but thinks he talks too much. He's not her parent though, she has as much said so. My partner and I are her parents.

Great mother you are, of 5 babies you only kept 2, you got a long way baby before you can claim success as a parent. Like the rest of your life.

I was a gestational surrogate. That means that they were not my babies. They used a donor egg and the father's sperm. I was the oven that baked the cake, I had no involvement or ingredients in the batter. They weren't MY children.

But now I do pity the story you tell, the ignorance you display.

Good. I hope it takes up a lot of your time, this pitying of me.

You may or may not have children but it is clear you are not a mother. No mother I would wish for any child. You honestly are willing to deny not one, but three babies their mother and on top of that force them into the life to homosexual lovers?

I am sorry, but you have made a whole slew of mistakes, but of all your mistakes, the biggest mistake of your life will be to deny three babies their mother. They won't have a perfect life with you, but I see it as being less than perfect being torn from the "family" they are born into.

You will regret it if you give them away, that is guaranteed.

Broken families happen, its not the best situation but we are only human, its just a bit worst when people purposely create broken families.

A mother and father is best for any child. Anything less...................

Nope, two parents are best for a child...at least that's what ALL the studies show. Oh, and our kids are proof positive of that as well. They're fine.

Have you found someone to take your kids if you die or are they going to an orphanage?

I feel sorry for you, you are broken and will never ,now, and you will never ever ,now the pain within your children, I can see from your advocacy that you have created an environment in which your, "kids", can not express themselves without hurting you.

Thanks for sharing your opinion but our children are fine. We communicate very well with our children and they have no problem expressing themselves.

Our 13 year old daughter, after talking to one of her classmates on the phone, came out and thanked us for still loving each other and being married to each other. See, all but one of her best friends come from divorced homes. All of my son's friends have divorced parents and they tell my son all the time that they love coming to our house and love HIS parents. Truly, save your pity for those kids. They're already fucked up from the divorce and their still in their teens.

Are you the biological mother or is there no real mother in your, "family". No real mother would be a worst case scenario.

You're against all adoption? You want kids forever in orphanages? Jesus fucking Christ are you living in Dicken's London?

I gave birth to our children but we are both their parents...legally and emotionally.

Of course I am humoring you, there is no way you have, "kids", I think you are simply a troll, maybe a Eunuch, which reminds me, "In the World of the Seawytch the Eunuch raises the children".

I've given birth to five babies. Two are mine and my wife's and three were for a gay male couple. They used a donor egg and their sperm. I actually believe the twins had two different fathers. Whether you believe in their existence or not, they do exist and they are costing me a fortune. I've got to make a Costco and commissary trip just to feed them for the next week.

I forgot all about that, now I will simply laugh at you, that was a bit ago, right, "Gender-less Parenting".

In the land of the Seawytch, the Eunuch raises the child.

I'm still attributing your misunderstanding to the fact that English is not your native language. I never said gender-less parenting, I said the gender of parents has no bearing on child raising. Children need a nurturer and a structurer for the best outcomes. Which parent provides those does not matter but it is why two parent homes are the ideal.

A 13 year old in a house without a father will have much in common with 13 year olds who's parents get divorced, no difference there. I am not sure if you had a point in there, but the irony is you claim your daughter has something they do not when your daughter lives in a home without a father, you need not divorce to put your "daughter" in the same situation. It already exists for her.

Actually, there is a great deal of difference in a household of married parents who still love each other and divorced parents. Its one of the reasons we always seem to have kids over here and why our kids don't want to go to their friends houses...the chaos and disruption of two households.

My daughter has met her donor. She likes him okay, but thinks he talks too much. He's not her parent though, she has as much said so. My partner and I are her parents.

Great mother you are, of 5 babies you only kept 2, you got a long way baby before you can claim success as a parent. Like the rest of your life.

I was a gestational surrogate. That means that they were not my babies. They used a donor egg and the father's sperm. I was the oven that baked the cake, I had no involvement or ingredients in the batter. They weren't MY children.

But now I do pity the story you tell, the ignorance you display.

Good. I hope it takes up a lot of your time, this pitying of me.

You may or may not have children but it is clear you are not a mother. No mother I would wish for any child. You honestly are willing to deny not one, but three babies their mother and on top of that force them into the life to homosexual lovers?

I am sorry, but you have made a whole slew of mistakes, but of all your mistakes, the biggest mistake of your life will be to deny three babies their mother. They won't have a perfect life with you, but I see it as being less than perfect being torn from the "family" they are born into.

You will regret it if you give them away, that is guaranteed.

Broken families happen, its not the best situation but we are only human, its just a bit worst when people purposely create broken families.

A mother and father is best for any child. Anything less...................

Nope, two parents are best for a child...at least that's what ALL the studies show. Oh, and our kids are proof positive of that as well. They're fine.

Have you found someone to take your kids if you die or are they going to an orphanage?

You do not have to justify and explain your decision to me, I can see you are in denial. A lot of rationalizing going on there, you might convince 1 or 2 out of your five children that you made the right choices, but you will never convince all 5.

Convince 5 of what? What five of my children? I don't have five children, I have two. A gay male couple have three. They are their children. It wasn't my eggs. They were never my children.

Further, it is not you who gets to decide if you succeed or fail as a parent, it is the child, grown into an adult, and with luck you won't out live your children.

Well, no shit Sherlock. Got a point?

Saddest part of what you describe is the suicide rate is highest in children that come from a home such as the one you created. You would be wise to take that as gospel and not dismiss it, that kind of information could possible wake you up before you make another gross error in your life.

I would hope you do not need a link for that, your children are in a high risk group for suicide, you must be so careful now that you put them in that situation.

I'm afraid you're wrong. I do need a link for that, because you're full of shit. Children of gays are not more likely to commit suicide, the gay children of anti gay bigots like you are.

 

[Seawytch]

Alabama needs to stand firm against federal tyranny.

What federal tyranny is that?

Article 4, Section 2 was ratified by the several States.
The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

Good... Then that means my non-resident CCW's from Florida and Arizona must be recognized by California too?

-Geaux

You know what? That would be a great subject for a thread, why CCW permits are not treated the same as marriage licenses, but the fact is they are so you are trying to compare apples to kumquats.

If you and I get a CCW permit in FL, it is treated exactly the same. Yours isn't valid in some states and not in another because you are straight. Now, if you and I both get a CA marriage license, yours is valid in all 50 states...mine, issued by the same authority is not. Understand the difference now?

 

[kaz]

If you actually believed your own bullshit, you'd pay the same rate as a single person.

My own bullshit that people should cheat on and evade their taxes? I should pay more taxes or I am a hypocrite?

This word, "hypocrite," I do not think it means what you think it means. You know, dumb ass, you don't even have to own a dictionary anymore, you're on ... the Internet ...

Your own bullshit....that married people should pay the same rate as single people. If you actually believed it, you'd do it.

You don't, hypocrite. You enjoy the very benefits you insist no one should ever have.

You don't pay taxes you advocate, I don't pay taxes I oppose.

Only a liberal is stupid enough to call me the hypocrite.

 

[kaz]

So Obama saying what Obamacare is is "irrelevant." LOL, somewhere a village is missing its idiot...

Red herring. Obama speaking about Obamacare is not the 'law'. This was the claim: the law explicitly said the mandate was not a tax.

That's three strikes. You're clearly have no interest in discussing the topic.

I'm waiting for you to show me the legislation W had passed that said FEMA was responsible for Katrina. You finding that yet?

Red herring.

Its your logic, applied consistently. Obama is not accountable for what he says his legislation is unless it's in the legislation.

You treat your own claims like the garbage they are. You'll understand when "I" treat your claims the same way, hypocrite.

And yes, you speak for hordes of people, hundreds, thousands. They hang on your every word saying yes, Skylar speaks for me. I guess you're not woody, you're limpy. "I" is a far more powerful word than "we" because I'm man enough to believe I am man enough to have a view, you need the validation of others to even think what you think.

Red herring. This is the claim: the law explicitly said the mandate was not a tax.

Either you'll address the claim or you won't.

Gotcha, I didn't say what you told me to, so I didn't address it. I directly addressed it.

You find that W legislation that FEMA is responsible for Katrina yet? How's that search going?

 

[kaz]

Here are a few, Skylar, Syriusly, World Watcher and JakeStarkey

I need links and exact quotes of what you're talking about. Saying they want to "freeze the system" is a little vague.

LOL, you don't have a college degree, but you have the equivalent. Literacy is the most basic college skill, you aren't even reading at a high school graduate level.

Nope, no college degree. I was a little busy serving my country and enjoying it. Then I got a really good job serving my community when I retired.

You know, you could just say you were mistaken again and can't provide any proof instead of being insulting, but that's your MO.

If I don't insult you, I'm going to put you on ignore. I realize you have no long term memory, but I've told you numerous times I have two modes, serious and fun. To get in my serious mode, you have to read, process and lucidly respond to my posts. Something you have consistently proven incapable of doing.

Oh look...more deflection. Still can't provide that evidence? Yeah, you keep promising that you're going to ignore me...but just can't stay away.

Answering your question isn't deflection.

As for the military, contrary to what a lot of liberals think they do have minimum standards. I believe literacy is one of them, which makes your claim to have spent 20 years in the up or out military dubious at best. You can't read a three line post and comprehend it.

I not only met, but exceeded the standards, thanks. My comprehension skills are just fine. You do seem to accuse a lot of people of having a comprehension problem, though. Logically most would conclude that the problem seems to be with you.

Whether you believe in the existence of my DD214 or not doesn't make it any less real.

Yes, liberals have serious comprehension problems. You can't process anything you aren't directed to think by lawyers.

 

[The Rabbi]

Alabama needs to stand firm against federal tyranny.

What federal tyranny is that?

Article 4, Section 2 was ratified by the several States.
The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

Good... Then that means my non-resident CCW's from Florida and Arizona must be recognized by California too?

-Geaux

You know what? That would be a great subject for a thread, why CCW permits are not treated the same as marriage licenses, but the fact is they are so you are trying to compare apples to kumquats.

If you and I get a CCW permit in FL, it is treated exactly the same. Yours isn't valid in some states and not in another because you are straight. Now, if you and I both get a CA marriage license, yours is valid in all 50 states...mine, issued by the same authority is not. Understand the difference now?

Nope.
You marry a man in FL. Your marriage certificate is valid in all 50 states. If I marry a man in FL it isnt valid in a bunch. You're gay and I'm straight but that's irrelevant.
You have a handgun carry permit. It isnt valid in CA or NJ.

 

[danielpalos]

If you actually believed your own bullshit, you'd pay the same rate as a single person.

My own bullshit that people should cheat on and evade their taxes? I should pay more taxes or I am a hypocrite?

This word, "hypocrite," I do not think it means what you think it means. You know, dumb ass, you don't even have to own a dictionary anymore, you're on ... the Internet ...

Your own bullshit....that married people should pay the same rate as single people. If you actually believed it, you'd do it.

You don't, hypocrite. You enjoy the very benefits you insist no one should ever have.

You don't pay taxes you advocate, I don't pay taxes I oppose.

Only a liberal is stupid enough to call me the hypocrite.

I only claim most of the right is cognitively dissonant when it comes to capitalism and socialism in our republic. it is almost as if they can't tell the difference or are indifferent to the distinction up to the point of engendering a perception of being "amoral" as to the differences.

 

[Seawytch]

I need links and exact quotes of what you're talking about. Saying they want to "freeze the system" is a little vague.

LOL, you don't have a college degree, but you have the equivalent. Literacy is the most basic college skill, you aren't even reading at a high school graduate level.

Nope, no college degree. I was a little busy serving my country and enjoying it. Then I got a really good job serving my community when I retired.

You know, you could just say you were mistaken again and can't provide any proof instead of being insulting, but that's your MO.

If I don't insult you, I'm going to put you on ignore. I realize you have no long term memory, but I've told you numerous times I have two modes, serious and fun. To get in my serious mode, you have to read, process and lucidly respond to my posts. Something you have consistently proven incapable of doing.

Oh look...more deflection. Still can't provide that evidence? Yeah, you keep promising that you're going to ignore me...but just can't stay away.

Answering your question isn't deflection.

As for the military, contrary to what a lot of liberals think they do have minimum standards. I believe literacy is one of them, which makes your claim to have spent 20 years in the up or out military dubious at best. You can't read a three line post and comprehend it.

I not only met, but exceeded the standards, thanks. My comprehension skills are just fine. You do seem to accuse a lot of people of having a comprehension problem, though. Logically most would conclude that the problem seems to be with you.

Whether you believe in the existence of my DD214 or not doesn't make it any less real.

Yes, liberals have serious comprehension problems. You can't process anything you aren't directed to think by lawyers.

No, you never did provide evidence of your claim that Skylar, WW, Jake, etc wanted to "freeze the system". You keep making these claims and then not backing them up. There's probably a term for it, but I guess I'm far too uneducated to know it.

Ah, so it's not Kaz that has a problem getting his point across, its that ALL liberals are just stupid.

 

[Seawytch]

Alabama needs to stand firm against federal tyranny.

What federal tyranny is that?

Article 4, Section 2 was ratified by the several States.
The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

Good... Then that means my non-resident CCW's from Florida and Arizona must be recognized by California too?

-Geaux

You know what? That would be a great subject for a thread, why CCW permits are not treated the same as marriage licenses, but the fact is they are so you are trying to compare apples to kumquats.

If you and I get a CCW permit in FL, it is treated exactly the same. Yours isn't valid in some states and not in another because you are straight. Now, if you and I both get a CA marriage license, yours is valid in all 50 states...mine, issued by the same authority is not. Understand the difference now?

Nope.
You marry a man in FL. Your marriage certificate is valid in all 50 states. If I marry a man in FL it isnt valid in a bunch. You're gay and I'm straight but that's irrelevant.
You have a handgun carry permit. It isnt valid in CA or NJ.

Silly, I'm not married to a man, I'm married to a woman...legally and everything. I have a civil marriage license issued by the state of California.

Did you know that some states allow 1st cousins to marry and some states don't but that even in the states that don't marry 1st cousins, their marriage is valid?

This is why I know that my marriage will be valid in all 50 states come June because that is the least of what the SCOTUS will do, get rid of the rest of DOMA.

 

[kaz]

No, you never did provide evidence of your claim that Skylar, WW, Jake, etc wanted to "freeze the system".

That isn't what I said. I'm tired of explaining and reexplaining conversations to you.

You keep making these claims and then not backing them up. There's probably a term for it, but I guess I'm far too uneducated to know it.

I won't prove water is wet either. I expect a minimum cognitive ability which includes the ability to comprehend a post and follow simple logic and the existence of basic long term memory. You have none of those.

Ah, so it's not Kaz that has a problem getting his point across, its that ALL liberals are just stupid.

That ... you are ...

 

[danielpalos]

Alabama needs to stand firm against federal tyranny.

What federal tyranny is that?

Article 4, Section 2 was ratified by the several States.
The citizens of each state shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of citizens in the several states.

Good... Then that means my non-resident CCW's from Florida and Arizona must be recognized by California too?

-Geaux

No. That is a full faith and credit clause issue:

Article IV, Section 1: Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

Article 4, Section 2 has more to do with securing due process and natural rights established by the Body and community of the People and citizens in the several States.

 

[Seawytch]

No, you never did provide evidence of your claim that Skylar, WW, Jake, etc wanted to "freeze the system".

That isn't what I said. I'm tired of explaining and reexplaining conversations to you.

Maybe it's just that you forget what you said and that's why you won't support ANY of your claims. Here's what you said:

Kaz: How many liberal straights are arguing for gay marriage? It's not just the gays who actually get married, it's all the liberals who want a different system. They all will want the system to freeze once they get their way.

When I asked you who, you listed Skylar, Syriusly, World Watcher and JakeStarkey so I asked you to provide links to where they advocated "getting their way and then freezing the system". You then proceeded to do your usual deflection. It's okay, I understand that I called you on something you can't back up so you react with vehemence. It's textbook something I'm sure.