Let us argue about abortion

[C_Clayton_Jones]

If you were honest you would admit you place more value on the mother's convenience than the child's life.

Want to try for real honesty, or are you going to try and lie your way through this by claiming all abortions occur because the mother will die without it?

it makes no difference WHY any woman wants an abortion. Its her body and her business if she wants to be an incubator.

When one views the fetus as a human being, then it is their business to prevent the murder of human beings, just as it is everyone's business to outlaw all other murders.

Incorrect.

Individuals are free to ‘view’ a fetus however they see fit, in accordance with whatever religious or moral criteria they recognize, and thus make their own decisions.

They are not authorized, however, to act on that belief, by attempting to codify their subjective opinions into secular law, manifesting an undue burden to a woman’s exercising the right to privacy.

 

[koshergrl]

Let us argue about abortion

Which wouldn’t be possible without privacy rights.

That the individual might decide the matter for himself free from government interference is a good thing.

So you maintain that it's each individual's right to decide whether or not they should kill someone else or not, and that decision is protected by their right to privacy?

That's scary.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

I think discussing the value of life is difficult, the article is right, pro-choice people( at least the honest ones) understand that a fetus is a human life, they(me included) simply place more value on the mothers life, than the fetus'.

That would be fine if abortion only took place when the mother's life was at stake.

What you are saying is a woman's convenience is more important than a fetus' life. And that's disgusting.


All the caterwauling about "personhood" and "viability" was just smoke screen to hide the real agenda...to de-value particular sets of people, and kill them. It will start with babies (well it has already). It will move on to the elderly, the disabled, the poor, and those who are judged to be unhappy.

Citizens can not be compelled to justify the exercising of a fundamental right, such as privacy, as some sort of ‘prerequisite’ to indeed do so.

That you might perceive abortion to be ‘disgusting’ means that you won’t have an abortion, it doesn’t mean you can dictate the same to others.

 

[Clementine]

What do you think about the tactic of admitting defeat to pro lifers and siding with the eugenicists who want to improve the human race by killing undesirables?

As long as the culling of undesirables is done of the mother's own free will, law says its her choice.

It was also her choice, as it is in most circumstances, to create the child to begin with. The number of pregnancies due to rape is such a small percent of the total that I won't address that. If a woman doesn't use birth control or have the intelligence to do what's in her best interest before she finds herself pregnant, I don't have a lot of faith in her ability to make any decisions after she is pregnant. Face it, some women just don't have their shit together. They require drastic measures and other peoples' money to get themselves out of their predicament and many make the same mistake more than once.

I know many will say birth control doesn't always work, etc. True. But it does work most of the time, so the fact that millions of abortions are performed each year mean that a lot of women aren't smart enough to take precautions. Birth control pills are cheap at Walmart, in fact cost less per month than one trip to a fast food place. I'm sure they accept EBT cards, too, so there is no excuse!!!!

And in late term abortions, it's actually more risky to stop the delivery half way through to jam a sharp object into the baby's head to kill it than it is to simply induce labor and let the baby be born. A woman who decides that late in the game that she doesn't want the baby needs to have her head examined.

It's a legal procedure and it's their choice. And they should pay for their own choices. I suggest that the wealthy liberals pool their money and create more abortion clinics and find doctors to do them for free or allow the women to make small payments till their bills are paid. In this free capitalist country, the liberal politicians and the Hollywood liberals could probably start themselves one hell of an abortion business. I don't know why they haven't done this already instead of begging for tax money from already overtaxed working stiffs. Those who constantly cry about how others should pay for these women need to step up and put their own money on the table for what they believe.

I'm not whining about how people should pay for my asthma inhaler or my physical therapy for my back. I pay a lot of my own money for what I need. Others can do the same and stop acting like their problem, that they bought on themselves in most cases, makes them special and deserving of tax payer money.

 

[Luissa]

If you were honest you would admit you place more value on the mother's convenience than the child's life.

Want to try for real honesty, or are you going to try and lie your way through this by claiming all abortions occur because the mother will die without it?

NO she won't...But it is none of your business why a woman decides to have an abortion, and you have no clue why they make it or how it effects them. It is their choice, and their burden to live with. Roe V Wade won't be over turned. So just continue to sit in judgement of things you don't understand and argue something that you will never change......

Strangely enough, it doesn't happen to be your business why a crazy guy kills a bunch of first graders, that hasn't stopped you from having an opinion about it.

You mean my opinion to not have my son go to school in prison? And that we need to start treating our mentally ill different?
I think it is my business what goes on at my son's school, and I work with the mentally ill. So your point again?

 

[Luissa]

When one views the fetus as a human being, then it is their business to prevent the murder of human beings, just as it is everyone's business to outlaw all murders.

What if one doesn't agree with gun ownership, and believes it is their business to prevent gun ownership? Guns cause death too.
Long story short...Both are rights given to use by our constitution. I don't want your guns, stay away from my right to privacy.

Guns "caused" 30,708 deaths in 1998, there were at least 884,273 abortions that same year, that is over 28 deaths of a child for every single gun death.

Did you have a point?

I did and you obviously missed it. Which isn't my problem.

 

[Luissa]

it makes no difference WHY any woman wants an abortion. Its her body and her business if she wants to be an incubator.

That's the part they don't understand. It is none of their business as to why a woman would want one. We don't care if they judge us. It is our choice and we are the ones who have to deal with it all. It is easy to judge something we know nothing about.

What makes you think I don't understand your justification? I happen to understand lots of things that don't make sense to sane people.

I didn't just mention justification.
You will never understand what it's like to make that decision or go through it... But it doesn't stop you from judging someone... Hmmmm

 

[syrenn]

Let us argue about abortion

Which wouldn’t be possible without privacy rights.

That the individual might decide the matter for himself free from government interference is a good thing.

So you maintain that it's each individual's right to decide whether or not they should kill someone else or not, and that decision is protected by their right to privacy?

That's scary.

it is a matter of opinion as to what the cells are.... ie: someone or not someone.

 

[Inthemiddle]

I think discussing the value of life is difficult, the article is right, pro-choice people( at least the honest ones) understand that a fetus is a human life, they(me included) simply place more value on the mothers life, than the fetus'.

A fetus is human life. That does not mean that people simply must agree that a fetus is a human life. My kidney is human life. It's hardly a human life, though.

 

[Mr. H.]

Spent soda bottles.

Quench the fuck, discard the empty container.

 

[Inthemiddle]

The wacky left wants bacteria considered a person under the law, what's your point?

You have a link for that?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

NO she won't...But it is none of your business why a woman decides to have an abortion, and you have no clue why they make it or how it effects them. It is their choice, and their burden to live with. Roe V Wade won't be over turned. So just continue to sit in judgement of things you don't understand and argue something that you will never change......

Strangely enough, it doesn't happen to be your business why a crazy guy kills a bunch of first graders, that hasn't stopped you from having an opinion about it.

You mean my opinion to not have my son go to school in prison? And that we need to start treating our mentally ill different?
I think it is my business what goes on at my son's school, and I work with the mentally ill. So your point again?

Get the schools back in control of the parents instead of the feds and you will have a lot more say about what happens at your sons school. Unfortunately, for you, you actually think having the feds in charge of your son's school makes sense.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

That's the part they don't understand. It is none of their business as to why a woman would want one. We don't care if they judge us. It is our choice and we are the ones who have to deal with it all. It is easy to judge something we know nothing about.

What makes you think I don't understand your justification? I happen to understand lots of things that don't make sense to sane people.

I didn't just mention justification.
You will never understand what it's like to make that decision or go through it... But it doesn't stop you from judging someone... Hmmmm

Justification: 1: the act, process, or state of being justified by God
2a : the act or an instance of justifying : vindication
b : something that justifies

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I think discussing the value of life is difficult, the article is right, pro-choice people( at least the honest ones) understand that a fetus is a human life, they(me included) simply place more value on the mothers life, than the fetus'.

A fetus is human life. That does not mean that people simply must agree that a fetus is a human life. My kidney is human life. It's hardly a human life, though.

Your kidney is not human life.

 

[syrenn]

I think discussing the value of life is difficult, the article is right, pro-choice people( at least the honest ones) understand that a fetus is a human life, they(me included) simply place more value on the mothers life, than the fetus'.

A fetus is human life. That does not mean that people simply must agree that a fetus is a human life. My kidney is human life. It's hardly a human life, though.

Your kidney is not human life.

exactly!

but it is living human tissue... and not a stand alone LIFE of its own. It cannot live without a host....

 

[clevergirl]

A fetus is human life. That does not mean that people simply must agree that a fetus is a human life. My kidney is human life. It's hardly a human life, though.

Your kidney is not human life.

exactly!

but it is living human tissue... and not a stand alone LIFE of its own. It cannot live without a host....

The "host" argument is a canard*. A kidney is not a "life". An unborn child is a complete individual human being. It has everything it will need to move through each stage of its life. It takes an outside force to kill it once its life begins. That force can be organic or it can be inorganic. But either way it is no mere piece of living tissue- GAWD but you people are brutal wicked killers aren't you.

A child without a caretaker cannot survive outside the womb either*.

 

[Inthemiddle]

A kidney is not a "life".

Neither is a formless mass of cells. But you seem to like those an awful lot.

An unborn child is a complete individual human being.

At what point does this come to pass?

It has everything it will need to move through each stage of its life. It takes an outside force to kill it once its life begins.

Okay, I'm not going any farther than this. You apparently need to learn some biology 101.

 

[koshergrl]

What if one doesn't agree with gun ownership, and believes it is their business to prevent gun ownership? Guns cause death too.
Long story short...Both are rights given to use by our constitution. I don't want your guns, stay away from my right to privacy.

Guns "caused" 30,708 deaths in 1998, there were at least 884,273 abortions that same year, that is over 28 deaths of a child for every single gun death.

Did you have a point?

I did and you obviously missed it. Which isn't my problem.

No, it's obvious you aren't committed to debate. You want to spout logical fallacy and thread red herrings. Go for it.

 

[koshergrl]

Your kidney is not human life.

exactly!

but it is living human tissue... and not a stand alone LIFE of its own. It cannot live without a host....

The "host" argument is a canard*. A kidney is not a "life". An unborn child is a complete individual human being. It has everything it will need to move through each stage of its life. It takes an outside force to kill it once its life begins. That force can be organic or it can be inorganic. But either way it is no mere piece of living tissue- GAWD but you people are brutal wicked killers aren't you.

A child without a caretaker cannot survive outside the womb either*.

Which is why progressives have no problem with killing young children. You won't ever see them get worked up over children dying. It's always a price they're willing to pay. They wouldn't care if gunmen walked into every school and stated they were targeting unarmed schools before shooting all the kids down...they still would refuse to allow us to protect our children.

So you can see, the age has nothing to do with it.

 

[Wicked Jester]

Threads dealing with this issue are both interesting and sad. Particularly when you see the insignificance the pro-choice crowd places on human life....The coldness they display at times, is downright chilling.

Sadly, there are some seriously sick and twisted people in this world.

Just sayin'.