Let's put an end to this nonsense once & for all

[rdean]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

You wrote this:

Grampa Murked U - Where, if anywhere, does personal responsibility fit into that? I made shit wages when I started out in life. In fact my first two bosses only hired me because of the tax incentives they got for hiring an ex con.

And yet it seems you don't want others to be given the same chance you were given.

 

[Moonglow]

I am sure he is like me and we both hired ex-cons..

 

[Dot Com]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

you in particular? ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! You're too emo

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

This will sound like complete pie in the sky bullshit but this is what I think. And this is part of my thoughts on rehabilitation.

First and foremost:
Treat them like human beings. Creatures that like you have feelings & emotional needs.
While in prison i was a number. 39384.... very few guards treated me or anyone else with any level of respect. We were a means to a paycheck. The only ones who cared were the trade school teachers, pastors & the medical staff. There was no counseling. I got more insight from my dui classes than i did in my entire prison stint.
I guess what im trying to say is if you keep kicking a dog that dog will eventually turn on you.
Now im obviously not suggesting we baby criminals but if you want them to change you don't keep treating them like everyone did on the streets.

Second:
Double the pay parole officers recieve & give them the resources to treat individuals like individuals instead of that prison number they were assigned. Also screen them for personality traits conducive to helping others. My first parole officer was a female and she used her role as a weapon to ride me like a bad step parent.

Thirdly:
The "check box" felons have to mark on applications needs serious oversight. Perhaps the box should be changed to reflect parole status... ie (are you currently on parole). If a person fulfills their parole the ods of them commiting another crime are DRASTICALLY reduced. However, if they cant find a job because of that box the chances will likewise go up.

Fourth:
Stop making convicts work for .65 per day while they make products that make the "system" millions per year. While in prison i made outdoor buildings that were sold to the public for SIXTY FIVE FUCKING CENTS A DAY.
FORCE educational courses instead.


I could go on and on but I'm getting aggrivated thinking about it. The system is 100% broken

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

You wrote this:

Grampa Murked U - Where, if anywhere, does personal responsibility fit into that? I made shit wages when I started out in life. In fact my first two bosses only hired me because of the tax incentives they got for hiring an ex con.

And yet it seems you don't want others to be given the same chance you were given.

Please prove your last sentence or just SHUT THE FUCK UP

 

[HUGGY]

It used to be that criminal incarceration was the eventual logical outcome of what is supposed to be a fair way for any local society to separate dangerous people from the "good" people.

I've come to believe, over the years, that hatred and evil exists in the hearts of most people. They are the ones less worthy. You did YOUR time. Most of them have never had to atone for their sins. One in seven murderers are caught. Nearly 20% of our children are raped by a close relative. Many millions don't pay their taxes.

Attorneys working for the prosecution are not seeking truth. They seek convictions. If it makes them seem better candidates for advancement so much the better if they are not concerned so much about justice.

Our police have learned that lying is honorable in seeking convictions for the prosecutors.

Now the "justice system" has come full circle and many of those that have been deemed guilty are simply fodder for companies that are paid by localities to do their dirty work and house prisoners on the cheap.

Prison violence is on the rise as Prison Inc. cuts corners.

Gramps can believe that there are people that care. If only he just asked the right ones... Sorry Pops, those that care never make it to the decision making offices. They are reserved for those that DON'T care.

 

[JBond]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

Hello fellow Kansas City citizen. Having made many mistakes in my life, none of them felonies, I know for a fact experience can bring wisdom in some cases. As you mentioned that is different than losing a right as part of your penality.

 

[JBond]

As far as I'm concerned once that debt is repaid then the state has an obligation to return all rights taken period. The Supreme Court should take a case and make it official, no one should lose rights for good.

In most states there is a process to restore voting rights. Maybe Grampa can elaborate on that.

Never mind. Auto restore in Missouri. Also in Kansas, my state.

 

[Moonglow]

As far as I'm concerned once that debt is repaid then the state has an obligation to return all rights taken period. The Supreme Court should take a case and make it official, no one should lose rights for good.

In most states there is a process to restore voting rights. Maybe Grampa can elaborate on that.

In Mizzouri, all you have to do is serve your time...or get off probation..

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

As far as I'm concerned once that debt is repaid then the state has an obligation to return all rights taken period. The Supreme Court should take a case and make it official, no one should lose rights for good.

In most states there is a process to restore voting rights. Maybe Grampa can elaborate on that.

You are correct but this isn't really about voting rights.

 

[Wry Catcher]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

Your arguments (so to speak) are opinions, not well thought out and framed by your biases. That said, I believe anyone who has completed a prison sentence (or a jail sentence) and discharged honorably from parole (or successfully completed probation) should have all of his or her civil rights restored, with the caveat that parole be extended for life to anyone who committed a violent act, thus forfeiting their 2nd A. and 4th A. Rights.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

Your arguments (so to speak) are opinions, not well thought out and framed by your biases. That said, I believe anyone who has completed a prison sentence (or a jail sentence) and discharged honorably from parole (or successfully completed probation) should have all of his or her civil rights restored, with the caveat that parole be extended for life to anyone who committed a violent act, thus forfeiting their 2nd A. and 4th A. Rights.

I didnt really make any arguments. If you read a bit further you will see my real thoughts on the subject.

 

[Disir]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

I don't. I find it hysterically funny that every other thread is how you hate liberals even though it is liberals that are fighting on the front lines for ex-cons to have a reinstatement of their right to vote.

 

[Two Thumbs]

As it pertains to politics?

So many of you know I am a VOTING, and boisterous ex con. I served my time, learned my "lesson" and became one of the few that reintigrated into society.

Put aside your political bias about different states passing or suggesting that ex prisoners be allowed to vote. Do you believe my experience makes my opinion or vote somehow less valuable than yours? I'm not talking about the "right" to vote, I'm talking about opinions & wisdom.

So many of you think my status is a reason to ridicule or insult. More often than not I see those insults as an inability to respond coherently to an argument I've made.

This mostly falls into the grey 'depends' arena.

a habitual offender will decide that certain laws should be done away with or the punishment lessened. They can still make logical votes, but it will be votes that benfit them and not society.

an addict will obviously vote with the mentality of an addict.

a 1 or 2 time offender is going to rejoin the part of society he feels most comfy with and vote according to his or the countries needs.

The higher up you go in influence, the more dangerous the vote can get.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I believe that there ought to be voting booths inside prisons and that all eligible US citizens should retain their right to vote.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

It costs many times the "taxpayer money" to keep people in jail than we spend on "rehabilitating" them.

I see. So how do we keep them from going back then? It's a waste of money either way. First in the attempt to "rehab" them, second for each of the times they get sent back to jail. Something has to give...

The way to lower the recidivism rates is to make it easier for felons to become functioning members of society.

Oh, I get it now. The best way for that to happen is to eliminate the bias against felons in the workplace, you know, against those who committed burglary, theft, various other misdemeanors... things like that. You know, give direction to those who seem lost in the world.

I don't know what the "best way" to make it easier for felons to return to society is. There's no way to "eliminate" the bias.

I think taking that checkbox off job applications would be a step in the right direction, though.

I'm unconvinced about that. I would certainly check out on my own any potential employee by the myriad of means available before I would hire them.

As the employer, I have the right to know who I am employing, and any potential risks to myself, my employees and the business in hiring them. What I would never do is hire someone simply because the government or some strange politically-correct idea of fairness tried to compel me to do so.

 

[Disir]

This will sound like complete pie in the sky bullshit but this is what I think. And this is part of my thoughts on rehabilitation.

First and foremost:
Treat them like human beings. Creatures that like you have feelings & emotional needs.
While in prison i was a number. 39384.... very few guards treated me or anyone else with any level of respect. We were a means to a paycheck. The only ones who cared were the trade school teachers, pastors & the medical staff. There was no counseling. I got more insight from my dui classes than i did in my entire prison stint.
I guess what im trying to say is if you keep kicking a dog that dog will eventually turn on you.
Now im obviously not suggesting we baby criminals but if you want them to change you don't keep treating them like everyone did on the streets.

Second:
Double the pay parole officers recieve & give them the resources to treat individuals like individuals instead of that prison number they were assigned. Also screen them for personality traits conducive to helping others. My first parole officer was a female and she used her role as a weapon to ride me like a bad step parent.

Thirdly:
The "check box" felons have to mark on applications needs serious oversight. Perhaps the box should be changed to reflect parole status... ie (are you currently on parole). If a person fulfills their parole the ods of them commiting another crime are DRASTICALLY reduced. However, if they cant find a job because of that box the chances will likewise go up.

Fourth:
Stop making convicts work for .65 per day while they make products that make the "system" millions per year. While in prison i made outdoor buildings that were sold to the public for SIXTY FIVE FUCKING CENTS A DAY.
FORCE educational courses instead.


I could go on and on but I'm getting aggrivated thinking about it. The system is 100% broken

Actually, it would just be peachy if parole officers were allowed to be parole officers and probation officers were allowed to be probation officers AND they were provided the necessary tools to work with.

A series of "assessment" tools has been devised and utilized to predict whether or not someone will reoffend. There is a hella lot wrong with these tools but no one wants to investigate this shit. People need to start looking at the money behind it.

Most prisons already have GED classes. You can force 'em but many are low functioning and they won't be able to pass it.
For those that can and move on liberals are fighting for those pell grants:
U.S. Department of Education Launches Second Chance Pell Pilot Program for Incarcerated Individuals | U.S. Department of Education

It's really hard to get people on board with this when they manage to stay out of prison and are in debt up to their ears in student loans.

 

[Seawytch]

You don't lose the fundamental right to marry while in prison, why should you lose the fundamental right to vote?

 

[Old Rocks]

Once they spent their time owed to society they should all be allowed to vote. People make mistakes and should be forgiven.

Interesting. People who say, committed heinous acts of violence, say rape, murder, child abuse, spousal abuse and etc, should be allowed have a say so in what laws govern us? They didn't seem interested in the law when they broke it. It's counterproductive.

Most in prison did not commit a heinous crime.

 

[SwimExpert]

So, I'm curious, at what point do we stop trying? I was just looking at some NIJ statistics from 2005 which followed 405,000 prisoners who were released from jail. Nearly 67% fell to recidivism in the first three years after release, with 75% of them doing so five years after. To me it takes up so much time and taxpayer money to continue rehabilitating people who continually violate the law despite our best efforts...could it be the efficacy of the treatment?

Recidivism | National Institute of Justice

It costs many times the "taxpayer money" to keep people in jail than we spend on "rehabilitating" them.

I see. So how do we keep them from going back then? It's a waste of money either way. First in the attempt to "rehab" them, second for each of the times they get sent back to jail. Something has to give...

The way to lower the recidivism rates is to make it easier for felons to become functioning members of society.

Oh, I get it now. The best way for that to happen is to eliminate the bias against felons in the workplace, you know, against those who committed burglary, theft, various other misdemeanors... things like that. You know, give direction to those who seem lost in the world.

I don't know what the "best way" to make it easier for felons to return to society is. There's no way to "eliminate" the bias.

I think taking that checkbox off job applications would be a step in the right direction, though.

Funny thing about that checkbox....it's there for tax reasons.