Let's Reform The Individual Mandate In ACA

[Bombur]

Your generalizations do not constitute argument.
/fail.

You made general claims that are blatantly false and then run away when called on it?

It takes a special kind of someone to bring up costs as a reason why the German system is in worse shape than the US. I guess I should have seen this coming.

Every claim I made is not only true but verified. That you cannot follow an argument is not my fault.

LOL

You claimed Germany has a cost problem and their system "failed" but their per person cost is significantly less than the US. Like almost half. When pressed on this issue you attributed the cost difference to malpractice and claimed the number of doctors doesn't matter. Then you pointed to Iceland and ran away.

No offense but you don't know anything about the topic. You have a spattering of talking points and that is about it.

The US has a massive cost problem. I would even admit that some of that has to do with malpractice in the US. Even generous estimates for the cost of malpractice don't even come remotely close to justifying the cost differentials.

 

[RDD_1210]

0.5% reduction with Malpractice reform represents a tiny, tiny portion of the cost of healthcare. I think you didn't understand the simple statement by the CBO or you chose to ignore it. This clearly demonstrates your overused talking point is just that, a weak talking point with zilch to back it up.

All his ridiculous points are easily defeated. Every last one of them in this thread have been shred apart. He doesn't post evidence for his BS and ignores evidence that disproves his nonsense.

That is Rabbi in a nutshell.

Now he'll neg me and call me a dunce. He's beyond predictable.

You keep saying my points are easily defeated. And then fail to do so.
You are a dunce. There is no question.

Ok pyscho. Maybe your insanity is why your POS business shut down.

 

[dblack]

As I wrote, high malpractice insurnce premiums are one factor. That means there are many others. The CBO's predictions have never been correct. NEver.
I understand you have to challenge things that contradict your world view. But pick on a less informed, less skillful poster than me. Save everyone a lot of time.

Now that's throwing down the gauntlet!

You mean waving the white flag.

Well, the challenge has been declared. Just try and find a poster less informed, or less skillful! Sounds like a dare to me.

 

[RDD_1210]

You made general claims that are blatantly false and then run away when called on it?

It takes a special kind of someone to bring up costs as a reason why the German system is in worse shape than the US. I guess I should have seen this coming.

Every claim I made is not only true but verified. That you cannot follow an argument is not my fault.

LOL

You claimed Germany has a cost problem and their system "failed" but their per person cost is significantly less than the US. Like almost half. When pressed on this issue you attributed the cost difference to malpractice and claimed the number of doctors doesn't matter. Then you pointed to Iceland and ran away.

No offense but you don't know anything about the topic. You have a spattering of talking points and that is about it.

The US has a massive cost problem. I would even admit that some of that has to do with malpractice in the US. Even generous estimates for the cost of malpractice don't even come remotely close to justifying the cost differentials.

Save your breath with him. He's literally insane and I'm not just saying that. He's not all there.

 

[RDD_1210]

Now that's throwing down the gauntlet!

You mean waving the white flag.

Well, the challenge has been declared. Just try and find a poster less informed, or less skillful! Sounds like a dare to me.

Than Rabbi? I give up. You win.

 

[TemplarKormac]

No. Get rid of the entire law and pass a viable alternative.

 

[ScienceRocks]

No. Get rid of the entire law and pass a viable alternative.

A hybrid of single payer and health insurance personal accounts. The single payer would be for the people that can't and the health accounts would be the better off.

What do you think about that?

 

[The Rabbi]

You made general claims that are blatantly false and then run away when called on it?

It takes a special kind of someone to bring up costs as a reason why the German system is in worse shape than the US. I guess I should have seen this coming.

Every claim I made is not only true but verified. That you cannot follow an argument is not my fault.

LOL

You claimed Germany has a cost problem and their system "failed" but their per person cost is significantly less than the US.

You understand that is a non sequitur, right? Just because their cost per person is less than the US does not mean their system cannot fail. As it happens it did, and I posted proof they are intently trying to reform the system due to its very high cost.

Like almost half. When pressed on this issue you attributed the cost difference to malpractice and claimed the number of doctors doesn't matter. Then you pointed to Iceland and ran away.

Are your reading skills this poor? I specifically wrote "high malpractice premiums are one of many reasons." THat means there are more reasons than high malpractice premiums. But the premiums are one reason.

Your physician spends 10 cents on malpractice insurance from every dollar you pay for health care, according to Diana Furchtgott-Roth, a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Furchgott-Roth notes that premiums vary from $20,000 annually in low-cost states to $200,000 annually in high-cost states. According to a survey published November 2011 in "Modern Medicine," family and general practitioners paid premiums of $12,100, and pediatricians' premiums averaged $11,800. OB-GYNs paid an average of $46,400, and plastic surgeons reported median premiums averaging $30,000.

How Much Do Doctors Pay for Insurance? | Chron.com
Yes, 10 cents out of every dollar spent is due to premiums. You don't think that's significant? Europe does not have premiums like that because they do not have a tort culture like ours.
The number of doctors may or may not matter. WHat matters is patient access to them. ANd as I wrote, in some places doctors limit their time because their salaries are limited by law. You never bothered to answer the question about Iceland. I wrote from memory and it was in fact Ireland. Although doctors in Iceland also struck Probably because you're too ignorant to have read about it and too stupid to care. Here's an article:
http://www.marxist.com/ireland-junior-doctors-to-strike.htm
Why would they strike? If they work more, the get paid more. That's how things work here. But they dont get paid more. Thus the strike. Their labor is essentially rationed in the system. I realize this is high level thinking for you and you will doubtless miss the point.

No offense but you don't know anything about the topic. You have a spattering of talking points and that is about it.

The US has a massive cost problem. I would even admit that some of that has to do with malpractice in the US. Even generous estimates for the cost of malpractice don't even come remotely close to justifying the cost differentials.

No offense but your reading skills are about on a 3rd grade level. Nice to see you admitting what I already wrote, after you ridiculed it. Your logic skills are about on a par.

 

[JoeB131]

Here's a modest proposal:
The Obamacare roll out and the rough time people have had getting insurance have led to many people not being able to get affordable insurance. If they can't prove they have insurance they will have to pay the penalty under Obamacare.
To help them out, let's let people opt out of the mandate. Perhaps they can simply make a statement that complying is a hardship and that will excuse them from the penalty.
What do you think?

I think that's pretty stupid.

Because then everyone could opt out until they get sick, and then sign up for something. It would bankrupt insurance companies within years.

The real problem with ACA is that it props up the Trillion Dollar Health Insurance Industry. We should go to single payer like every other industrialized nation has done.

 

[The Rabbi]

Here's a modest proposal:
The Obamacare roll out and the rough time people have had getting insurance have led to many people not being able to get affordable insurance. If they can't prove they have insurance they will have to pay the penalty under Obamacare.
To help them out, let's let people opt out of the mandate. Perhaps they can simply make a statement that complying is a hardship and that will excuse them from the penalty.
What do you think?

I think that's pretty stupid.

Because then everyone could opt out until they get sick, and then sign up for something. It would bankrupt insurance companies within years.

The real problem with ACA is that it props up the Trillion Dollar Health Insurance Industry. We should go to single payer like every other industrialized nation has done.

You uunderstand the administration did exactly that on its own, right?

 

[Edgetho]

Here's a modest proposal:
The Obamacare roll out and the rough time people have had getting insurance have led to many people not being able to get affordable insurance. If they can't prove they have insurance they will have to pay the penalty under Obamacare.
To help them out, let's let people opt out of the mandate. Perhaps they can simply make a statement that complying is a hardship and that will excuse them from the penalty.
What do you think?

I think that's pretty stupid.

Because then everyone could opt out until they get sick, and then sign up for something. It would bankrupt insurance companies within years.

The real problem with ACA is that it props up the Trillion Dollar Health Insurance Industry. We should go to single payer like every other industrialized nation has done.

That's a lie, douche.

Not every other nation has gone to single payor. And the ones that have deeply regret it and are trying to go to one like Switzerland has.... The one I have always been a proponent of. The one where government simply mandates but people buy through the Private Market.

And this is why obamacare will fail. Because dimocraps like you are lying scum.

Everything about the ACA was a lie. Everything.

We're gonna sve you $2,500 a year... A lie

We're gonna insured the uninsured -- A lie (there will be more uninsured people AFTER obamacare than before)

If you like your Health Care Plan you can keep it, Period. A lie.

A bald-faced fucking lie. A MONUMENTAL lie.

And that's why I hate, despise and detest dimocrap scum like you joey. Because you're lying bitches.

Every last one of you.

And a good program, one that should have worked, one that we need, one that I want, one that the American People want......

It's gonna go to shit because of lying scum like you joey.

lying bitch

 

[JoeB131]

How about single payer modeled after our public educational system.

You mean the education system in which we spend more per student than just about any other country in the world while producing ever shittier results for those that graduate, not to mention the phenomenal drop out rates?

THAT public education system? You want to emulate that?

Are you fucking retarded?

Elfie, your argument would have weight if all those countries that get better results with less money were using vouchers and home-skuling and Christian based schools.

For them most part, they aren't. They've got the government schools, too. And their teachers are unionized.

Now, there are problems with our education system. A disproportionate amount of money goes to "Special Needs", because those parents have learned how to yell the loudest.

And, yes, I will even go so far to say the Teacher Unions have made it too difficult to fire the bad teachers.

But part of the problem are the social problems with America overall.

First, our textbooks are badly written because Texas is the largest market for textbooks, and no one wants to offend Texas by talking about evolution of slavery.

Second, because schools are suffering from wealth inequality, we have education inequality. The rich kids in Evanston are doing well because their schools are well funded.

The poor kids on the south side in the school with the broken boiler so it's cold in the winter and they can't see the blackboard because no one checked their eyesight. Meh. Not so much.

 

[The Rabbi]

How about single payer modeled after our public educational system.

You mean the education system in which we spend more per student than just about any other country in the world while producing ever shittier results for those that graduate, not to mention the phenomenal drop out rates?

THAT public education system? You want to emulate that?

Are you fucking retarded?

Elfie, your argument would have weight if all those countries that get better results with less money were using vouchers and home-skuling and Christian based schools.

For them most part, they aren't. They've got the government schools, too. And their teachers are unionized.

Now, there are problems with our education system. A disproportionate amount of money goes to "Special Needs", because those parents have learned how to yell the loudest.

And, yes, I will even go so far to say the Teacher Unions have made it too difficult to fire the bad teachers.

But part of the problem are the social problems with America overall.

First, our textbooks are badly written because Texas is the largest market for textbooks, and no one wants to offend Texas by talking about evolution of slavery.

Second, because schools are suffering from wealth inequality, we have education inequality. The rich kids in Evanston are doing well because their schools are well funded.

The poor kids on the south side in the school with the broken boiler so it's cold in the winter and they can't see the blackboard because no one checked their eyesight. Meh. Not so much.

Talk out your ass much, Joe?

 

[JoeB131]

[


That's a lie, douche.

Not every other nation has gone to single payor. And the ones that have deeply regret it and are trying to go to one like Switzerland has.... The one I have always been a proponent of. The one where government simply mandates but people buy through the Private Market.

And this is why obamacare will fail. Because dimocraps like you are lying scum.

Everything about the ACA was a lie. Everything.

We're gonna sve you $2,500 a year... A lie

We're gonna insured the uninsured -- A lie (there will be more uninsured people AFTER obamacare than before)

If you like your Health Care Plan you can keep it, Period. A lie.

A bald-faced fucking lie. A MONUMENTAL lie.

And that's why I hate, despise and detest dimocrap scum like you joey. Because you're lying bitches.

Every last one of you.

And a good program, one that should have worked, one that we need, one that I want, one that the American People want......

It's gonna go to shit because of lying scum like you joey.

lying bitch

Actually, you hate because you have deep psychological problems. Seriously, you're the most unhinged poster on this board.

It was going to shit long before Obama Got there. one out of four without insurance or with inadequate insurance.

Switzerland is a small, wealthy country that lives off of it's banking. But let's look at their system.

Health care in Switzerland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh, wait. What they have is pretty much exactly like ObamaCare.

Healthcare in Switzerland is universal[2] and is regulated by the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance. Health insurance is compulsory for all persons residing in Switzerland (within three months of taking up residence or being born in the country)...

The insured person pays the insurance premium for the basic plan up to 8% of their personal income. If a premium is higher than this, the government gives the insured person a cash subsidy to pay for any additional premium.

 

[JoeB131]

You mean the education system in which we spend more per student than just about any other country in the world while producing ever shittier results for those that graduate, not to mention the phenomenal drop out rates?

THAT public education system? You want to emulate that?

Are you fucking retarded?

Elfie, your argument would have weight if all those countries that get better results with less money were using vouchers and home-skuling and Christian based schools.

For them most part, they aren't. They've got the government schools, too. And their teachers are unionized.

Now, there are problems with our education system. A disproportionate amount of money goes to "Special Needs", because those parents have learned how to yell the loudest.

And, yes, I will even go so far to say the Teacher Unions have made it too difficult to fire the bad teachers.

But part of the problem are the social problems with America overall.

First, our textbooks are badly written because Texas is the largest market for textbooks, and no one wants to offend Texas by talking about evolution of slavery.

Second, because schools are suffering from wealth inequality, we have education inequality. The rich kids in Evanston are doing well because their schools are well funded.

The poor kids on the south side in the school with the broken boiler so it's cold in the winter and they can't see the blackboard because no one checked their eyesight. Meh. Not so much.

Talk out your ass much, Joe?

Duly noted you were unable to refute a single point I made.

 

[The Rabbi]

Wow. Twenty five percent of the population did not have insurance before Obama. Who knew?

 

[JoeB131]

Here's a modest proposal:
The Obamacare roll out and the rough time people have had getting insurance have led to many people not being able to get affordable insurance. If they can't prove they have insurance they will have to pay the penalty under Obamacare.
To help them out, let's let people opt out of the mandate. Perhaps they can simply make a statement that complying is a hardship and that will excuse them from the penalty.
What do you think?

I think that's pretty stupid.

Because then everyone could opt out until they get sick, and then sign up for something. It would bankrupt insurance companies within years.

The real problem with ACA is that it props up the Trillion Dollar Health Insurance Industry. We should go to single payer like every other industrialized nation has done.

You uunderstand the administration did exactly that on its own, right?

Well, no, it didn't. We can thank the Senate for that stupidity.

There were a lot of great ideas out there like MediCare Buy in for those over 55 and a Public Option to compete with the insurance companies for the poor people they didn't want, and Republicans and some Democrats in the senate like Lieberman and Bayh shot them down.

I have no doubt we are going to have to go back in and fix this, but not until it's taken hold, unfortunately.

 

[JoeB131]

Wow. Twenty five percent of the population did not have insurance before Obama. Who knew?

46 million had no insurance.

25 million had inadequate insurance.

Yeah, that's one out of four in a population of 300 million.

You must have gotten one of those Texas Math books.

 

[The Rabbi]

I think that's pretty stupid.

Because then everyone could opt out until they get sick, and then sign up for something. It would bankrupt insurance companies within years.

The real problem with ACA is that it props up the Trillion Dollar Health Insurance Industry. We should go to single payer like every other industrialized nation has done.

You uunderstand the administration did exactly that on its own, right?

Well, no, it didn't. We can thank the Senate for that stupidity.

There were a lot of great ideas out there like MediCare Buy in for those over 55 and a Public Option to compete with the insurance companies for the poor people they didn't want, and Republicans and some Democrats in the senate like Lieberman and Bayh shot them down.

I have no doubt we are going to have to go back in and fix this, but not until it's taken hold, unfortunately.

No, idiot. I posted the link. The administration on its own allowed people to opt out of the mandate merely by stating it was a hardship. The Senate had nothing to do with it.
Do you make stuff up because you think it makes you look smart or because you're too lazy to find the truth or because you're just damned stupid?

 

[The Rabbi]

Wow. Twenty five percent of the population did not have insurance before Obama. Who knew?

46 million had no insurance.

25 million had inadequate insurance.

Yeah, that's one out of four in a population of 300 million.

You must have gotten one of those Texas Math books.

The 46M was a lie.
The 25M was also a lie.
And there are more people without insurance today than 2 years ago.
And your numbers add up to less than 25%.