Let's unpack some of the right wing's delusion and dishonesty. Is universal healthcare socialism?

[Blues Man]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

Markets don't work in healthcare for obvious reasons. Counter my emergency room example if you can. Why would an emergency room not continue to increase prices? The number of patients is based on accidents and sudden illness, their pricing has no effect so they can charge more and more....

most medical care does not take place in the emergency room.

But those are huge bills relative to others. So tell me what market force could hold pricing down?

in the aggregate routine medical care adds up and you're not arguing for universal injury insurance or catastrophic illness insurance you want ALL health care to be "free".

billions annually could be saved if the consumer could apply pressure to the market.

Nobody is going bankrupt from routine medical care. The real problem is expensive surgery and emergency care. Markets don't work for those for obvious reason. You only offer a small bandaid to the problem. The expenses that bankrupt people would continue.

And the problem there is that people can no longer get catastrophic care insurance plans that are far cheaper than the plans people are forced to buy today

you really can't realize that if billions could be saved annually on routine care that that leaves more money for catastrophic care?

 

[Blues Man]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

Healthcare was rising drastically long before obamacare. Most sick people don't want to shop around. And if you need life saving surgery you aren't going to go for budget surgery anyhow. Saving a few bucks means nothing if your are dead.

IDGAf if people don't want to shop around.

and the fact is most people will not need lifesaving surgery. Your plan is like saying why should i save on tune ups and brakes because if my transmission goes it will be expensive so I might as well not try to save any money on tune ups and oil changes.

If even part of the health care industry was open to market forces that would leave billions of dollars annually to deal with the emergency issues.

you are too short sighted

That's nice you don't care, but if it was your child in pain who needed medical attention I doubt you would spend much time shopping.

Again, nobody is going bankrupt from the things you are suggesting. Many people don't even get any routine care. If you have no answer for the expensive surgeries and emergency care you have nothing.

I used to have an answer that the government took off the table.

it was called catastrophic injury and illness insurance.

and guess what it was a fuck of a lot cheaper than what i am paying now.

 

[Brain357]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

If you cut out insurance companies on routine care what do you think will happen to the cost of catastrophic care? You only offer a bandaid for a life threatening wound....

 

[Brain357]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

Healthcare was rising drastically long before obamacare. Most sick people don't want to shop around. And if you need life saving surgery you aren't going to go for budget surgery anyhow. Saving a few bucks means nothing if your are dead.

IDGAf if people don't want to shop around.

and the fact is most people will not need lifesaving surgery. Your plan is like saying why should i save on tune ups and brakes because if my transmission goes it will be expensive so I might as well not try to save any money on tune ups and oil changes.

If even part of the health care industry was open to market forces that would leave billions of dollars annually to deal with the emergency issues.

you are too short sighted

That's nice you don't care, but if it was your child in pain who needed medical attention I doubt you would spend much time shopping.

Again, nobody is going bankrupt from the things you are suggesting. Many people don't even get any routine care. If you have no answer for the expensive surgeries and emergency care you have nothing.

I used to have an answer that the government took off the table.

it was called catastrophic injury and illness insurance.

and guess what it was a fuck of a lot cheaper than what i am paying now.

The insurance companies are going to make their money. If you cut them out of routine care the cost of catastrophic will go up rapidly.

 

[Blues Man]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

If you cut out insurance companies on routine care what do you think will happen to the cost of catastrophic care? You only offer a bandaid for a life threatening wound....

where did i say to cut them out?

Make health insurance that covers routine care the responsibility of the consumer.

Get rid of the people drs have to hire to wade through the morass of paperwork required for simple things like physicals , labs and x rays. colonoscopies and breast cancer screening etc etc etc.

Have the consumer submit their bills to their insurance company rather than making a hospital employ hundreds of people to deal with insurance paper work for routine care.

allow consumers to shop around instead of being tied to this network or that network.

The savings will be enormous.

 

[justinacolmena]

There's a health insurance fellow on the property.

catastrophic care insurance ... If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

There's no salvation at the hospital cafeteria. The butchers who do the dirty work won't lift a finger to save a soul without full authority to extort patients and bill them in arrears for the rest of their lives.

Healthcare was rising drastically long before obamacare. Most sick people don't want to shop around. And if you need life saving surgery you aren't going to go for budget surgery anyhow. Saving a few bucks means nothing if your are dead.

What? A few bucks says you’re dead, and you’re going under the knife? We aren’t even allowed to possess firearms if we’ve ever been evaluated for mental health, while convicted felons and violent career criminals with M.D. or D.O. degrees have full hospital privilieges to perform elective surgeries and unnecessary amputations.

in the aggregate routine medical care adds up and you're not arguing for universal injury insurance or catastrophic illness insurance you want ALL health care to be "free".

Shut the psychiatric wards down, and stop the fraudulent billing and late night debt collections from the doctors’s offices. We shouldn't be coerced to “pay” for our own incarcerations when we have done nothing wrong to justify such adverse action against us, nor should we be forced to pay for any other kind of care we don’t want or need.

billions annually could be saved if the consumer could apply pressure to the market.

You’re a consumer, huh? When did they let you out of the mental hospital? Are you off your meds again?

 

[Blues Man]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

Healthcare was rising drastically long before obamacare. Most sick people don't want to shop around. And if you need life saving surgery you aren't going to go for budget surgery anyhow. Saving a few bucks means nothing if your are dead.

IDGAf if people don't want to shop around.

and the fact is most people will not need lifesaving surgery. Your plan is like saying why should i save on tune ups and brakes because if my transmission goes it will be expensive so I might as well not try to save any money on tune ups and oil changes.

If even part of the health care industry was open to market forces that would leave billions of dollars annually to deal with the emergency issues.

you are too short sighted

That's nice you don't care, but if it was your child in pain who needed medical attention I doubt you would spend much time shopping.

Again, nobody is going bankrupt from the things you are suggesting. Many people don't even get any routine care. If you have no answer for the expensive surgeries and emergency care you have nothing.

I used to have an answer that the government took off the table.

it was called catastrophic injury and illness insurance.

and guess what it was a fuck of a lot cheaper than what i am paying now.

The insurance companies are going to make their money. If you cut them out of routine care the cost of catastrophic will go up rapidly.

Insurance companies shouldn't be in the routine care business. as you said most people don't use it anyway so why pay billions of dollars a year for it?

 

[Brain357]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

If you cut out insurance companies on routine care what do you think will happen to the cost of catastrophic care? You only offer a bandaid for a life threatening wound....

where did i say to cut them out?

Make health insurance that covers routine care the responsibility of the consumer.

Get rid of the people drs have to hire to wade through the morass of paperwork required for simple things like physicals , labs and x rays. colonoscopies and breast cancer screening etc etc etc.

Have the consumer submit their bills to their insurance company rather than making a hospital employ hundreds of people to deal with insurance paper work for routine care.

allow consumers to shop around instead of being tied to this network or that network.

The savings will be enormous.

So you have no real answer for the increasing cost of emergency care and life saving surgery, and you will create a ton of work for all consumers. So more work and costs will still increase.

Or we could follow one of the universal healthcare models and drastically lower costs and not have to jump through hoops for everything.

 

[Brain357]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

Healthcare was rising drastically long before obamacare. Most sick people don't want to shop around. And if you need life saving surgery you aren't going to go for budget surgery anyhow. Saving a few bucks means nothing if your are dead.

IDGAf if people don't want to shop around.

and the fact is most people will not need lifesaving surgery. Your plan is like saying why should i save on tune ups and brakes because if my transmission goes it will be expensive so I might as well not try to save any money on tune ups and oil changes.

If even part of the health care industry was open to market forces that would leave billions of dollars annually to deal with the emergency issues.

you are too short sighted

That's nice you don't care, but if it was your child in pain who needed medical attention I doubt you would spend much time shopping.

Again, nobody is going bankrupt from the things you are suggesting. Many people don't even get any routine care. If you have no answer for the expensive surgeries and emergency care you have nothing.

I used to have an answer that the government took off the table.

it was called catastrophic injury and illness insurance.

and guess what it was a fuck of a lot cheaper than what i am paying now.

The insurance companies are going to make their money. If you cut them out of routine care the cost of catastrophic will go up rapidly.

Insurance companies shouldn't be in the routine care business. as you said most people don't use it anyway so why pay billions of dollars a year for it?

Yes and when you cut them out they will have to make up for that somewhere. Look for big increases in catastrophic care...

 

[Blues Man]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

If you cut out insurance companies on routine care what do you think will happen to the cost of catastrophic care? You only offer a bandaid for a life threatening wound....

where did i say to cut them out?

Make health insurance that covers routine care the responsibility of the consumer.

Get rid of the people drs have to hire to wade through the morass of paperwork required for simple things like physicals , labs and x rays. colonoscopies and breast cancer screening etc etc etc.

Have the consumer submit their bills to their insurance company rather than making a hospital employ hundreds of people to deal with insurance paper work for routine care.

allow consumers to shop around instead of being tied to this network or that network.

The savings will be enormous.

So you have no real answer for the increasing cost of emergency care and life saving surgery, and you will create a ton of work for all consumers. So more work and costs will still increase.

Or we could follow one of the universal healthcare models and drastically lower costs and not have to jump through hoops for everything.

you said yourself that routine care isn't the issue so let people take care of that themselves

 

[Flash]

Socialized medicine in the US is a terrible idea for the following reasons:

1. It creates a filthy ass welfare entitlement class that get their bills paid for by other people. Morally wrong.

2. The stupid unaccountable bureaucrats would be making health care decisions for us. Picture the Driver License's Bureau on a national scale. Only an idiot would think that was a peachy idea.

3. As we see in other bloated government programs there would be tremendous government waste.

4. We cannot trust American politics, who are elected by special interest groups, to look after the best interest of the American people. Just look at the idiots of both parties using the Pandemic stimulus money to fund foreign counties and the stupid worthless programs they had in the bill as a recent example of why we can't trust elected officials to ever do the right thing.

5. Either legally under the law or Black Market if illegal it would create a two tier health care system where the rich got good care and the rest of the people were left with what ever crumbs the uncaring government would give them.

 

[Brain357]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

we have never had a transparent pricing model for medical care.

Therefore the consumer can put no pressure on medical service providers to lower their prices.

If any person could walk into a Dr office and see a menu of services offered and the price for each then we could apply market pressure to the health care industry and prices would drop and service would get better

It hardly matters. Emergency and life saving care are the big bills. You have no real choice in emergency care and nobody is going to pick the budget option for life saving care.

and catastrophic care insurance is cheaper than universal health care. All you would need is an insurance policy that covers injuries and severe illness like i used to have before Obama care made me pay for all kinds of shit I don't need and will never use

If you knew the cost of a physical, X rays, lab work etc you then you could shop around for the best price and the best service.

and it would amount to a huge savings.

If you cut out insurance companies on routine care what do you think will happen to the cost of catastrophic care? You only offer a bandaid for a life threatening wound....

where did i say to cut them out?

Make health insurance that covers routine care the responsibility of the consumer.

Get rid of the people drs have to hire to wade through the morass of paperwork required for simple things like physicals , labs and x rays. colonoscopies and breast cancer screening etc etc etc.

Have the consumer submit their bills to their insurance company rather than making a hospital employ hundreds of people to deal with insurance paper work for routine care.

allow consumers to shop around instead of being tied to this network or that network.

The savings will be enormous.

So you have no real answer for the increasing cost of emergency care and life saving surgery, and you will create a ton of work for all consumers. So more work and costs will still increase.

Or we could follow one of the universal healthcare models and drastically lower costs and not have to jump through hoops for everything.

you said yourself that routine care isn't the issue so let people take care of that themselves

That doesn't really fix anything. If you make routine care cheaper by cutting out insurance then catastrophic insurance will drastically increase.

 

[Brain357]

Socialized medicine in the US is a terrible idea for the following reasons:

1. It creates a filthy ass welfare entitlement class that get their bills paid for by other people. Morally wrong.

2. The stupid unaccountable bureaucrats would be making health care decisions for us. Picture the Driver License's Bureau on a national scale. Only an idiot would think that was a peachy idea.

3. As we see in other bloated government programs there would be tremendous government waste.

4. We cannot trust American politics, who are elected by special interest groups, to look after the best interest of the American people. Just look at the idiots of both parties using the Pandemic stimulus money to fund foreign counties and the stupid worthless programs they had in the bill as a recent example of why we can't trust elected officials to ever do the right thing.

5. Either legally under the law or Black Market if illegal it would create a two tier health care system where the rich got good care and the rest of the people were left with what ever crumbs the uncaring government would give them.

What is your plan?

 

[sartre play]

A decent solution to health care wont happen until we take two sided politics out of the search & look for effective solutions not based on political posturing.

 

[justinacolmena]

Make health insurance that covers routine care the responsibility of the consumer.

Time to quit smoking, fellow. Ditch that “routine” with the cigarette held between you forefinger and middle finger up to your lips and the deep inhale.

things like physicals , labs and x rays. colonoscopies and breast cancer screening etc etc etc.

Don’t need to be so “routine” for otherwise healthy people. Quit offering that shit.

Have the consumer submit their bills to their insurance company

You’re just like everyone else in the healthcare industry, trying to sucker us into “care” that is unneeded or inappropriate, and then stick us with the bill, and break our windows and smash our car headlights, knock the windshield out late at night to collect it.

allow consumers to shop around instead of being tied to this network or that network.

All it takes is one bad physician to get hold of our identity and medical insurance and payroll / social security / income tax information, and we’re bankrupt with broken kneecaps due to medical bills whether we’ve actually received any care or services or not from any of these charlatans and medical crooks.

 

[justinacolmena]

A decent solution to health care wont happen until we take two sided politics out of the search & look for effective solutions not based on political posturing.

The doctors are crooks, and they don’t need to be so bloody “efficient” or “efffective” in everything they do.

 

[justinacolmena]

A decent solution to health care wont happen until we take two sided politics out of the search & look for effective solutions not based on political posturing.

Ditch the sick care routine shit. Take a walk around the block, or join a gym and work out if that money is burning such a hole in your pocket.

 

[dblack]

Markets don't work for health care - MarketWatch

>>> In fact, totally free markets are abysmally bad at delivering health care. That's why every advanced economy, to one degree or another, has given government a large role in providing health care to its citizens.​

>>> We've tried the market approach to health care and the result has always been the same: Poor health and poor people.​

>>> Poverty and disease go together, and the causation goes both ways. Show me a country that keeps the government out of health care and I'll show you a country that spends too much on death and not enough on life.​

>>> I'm not arguing that everything government does is good, or that everything the private sector does is bad. It's clear that government actions can have their own failures that make health care more expensive or less effective. All I'm arguing here is that relying on markets exclusively leaves us poorer and sicker.​

Straight from the spokesman of a Communist Party politburo.

If it's some kind of pill or medication, free markets are amazingly efficient at delivering it. If it's something to be forced on patients against their will, then of course there’s always a market for extortion, forced drugging, and involuntary hospitalization under the explicit blessing and protection of government.

The real healthcare market is precisely in the government intervention to enforce routine mayhem, involuntary vaccination, mass murder, and abortion-on-demand at the pleasure of street hookers for every patron of prostitutes and dead-beat dad on the block.

If healthcare is a “good” for individuals making their own decisions, then there is no reason why a free market cannot deliver it. It is when prostitutes have to be involuntarily committed for healthcare against their will and extorted and beaten for the payment of it that government must intervene.

The price of healthcare rises and rises because there is no market pressure for it to decrease.

Because of state policies that interfere with market pressure. Revoke them, and prices normalize.

Markets don't work in healthcare for obvious reasons. Counter my emergency room example if you can.

Sure, I'll "counter" it.

Your emergency room example fails to adequately account for healthcare inflation for several reasons. First, you're talking about emergencies - by definition, exceptional situations. The vast bulk of our health care spending decisions are not made in an emergency. Second, people can and do make cost-based decisions during an emergency, if they are responsible for the costs. I know, I've been there and done that. Third, your "emergency room example" only affects prices for emergency services, and that's not the real problem when it comes to healthcare costs. The real problem is that the prices for basic, routine healthcare services cost more than the average person can afford.

Here's a better example of what drives healthcare inflation: Recently my doctor prescribed a skin cream for my psoriasis. It was new, so I figured it would be expensive. When I picked up my prescription, the price was $40 - for, maybe, two months worth. When I balked at the price, the pharmacist laughed. The forty dollars was my copay. The actual cost for the cream was $325 a tube. I was furious at the stupidity of such a scam, but my doctor said it was good stuff so I paid the forty dollars. My doctor was right, the cream works pretty well. But there's no way in hell I'd pay $325 dollars for a tube of it. No person in their right mind would. The only reason the drug company gets away with charging that much is because their customers have insurance that covers prescription medication.

This kind of cost/benefit decision occurs much, much more often than your "emergency room example". Every single time a healthcare consumer is faced with a cost based decision, that doesn't actually cost them any money, they have an inverted incentive - they have every reason to prefer the more expensive option rather than the less expensive. That's where the market incentives break down.

 

[dblack]

Socialized medicine in the US is a terrible idea for the following reasons:

1. It creates a filthy ass welfare entitlement class that get their bills paid for by other people. Morally wrong.

2. The stupid unaccountable bureaucrats would be making health care decisions for us. Picture the Driver License's Bureau on a national scale. Only an idiot would think that was a peachy idea.

3. As we see in other bloated government programs there would be tremendous government waste.

4. We cannot trust American politics, who are elected by special interest groups, to look after the best interest of the American people. Just look at the idiots of both parties using the Pandemic stimulus money to fund foreign counties and the stupid worthless programs they had in the bill as a recent example of why we can't trust elected officials to ever do the right thing.

5. Either legally under the law or Black Market if illegal it would create a two tier health care system where the rich got good care and the rest of the people were left with what ever crumbs the uncaring government would give them.

In addition, it turns healthcare into a political concern. Every election will be a referendum on healthcare, and each party will use their control of healthcare to further their social agendas. The Republicans will always threaten to drop abortion and birth control coverage, and any other services that might offend the moral sensibilities of the religious right. The Democrats will be pushing to have the government paying for sex reassignment surgery, and who knows what else. It will turn healthcare into a political football. As bad as the "scare the seniors" bs is during elections, the "scare the infirm" will be much worse.

 

[justinacolmena]

Second, people can and do make cost-based decisions during an emergency, if they are responsible for the costs. I know, I've been there and done that. Third, your "emergency room example" only affects prices for emergency services, and that's not the real problem when it comes to healthcare costs.

You've got quite an extortion racket going on there, imposing medical emergencies, breaking kneecaps, smashing windows and headlights to collect debt.

The real problem is that the prices for basic, routine healthcare services cost more than the average person can afford.

I really don't want to “be seen” by those doctors for anything “routine” or have my personal information caught up “in the system” at their billing offices for any particular reason.