Levin: Repeal the 17th Amendment

[Avatar4321]

I believe it should be repealed for the reason Madison cited.

As President, Madison managed to get the nation's capital burned down, more incompetent in national defense than even the Heir Guardsman was. He's doing it again, the pint-sized Dolley doll.

His tenure as President is completely irrelevant to him being an authority on the Constitution.

 

[BlindBoo]

Of course it's just another conservative how-can-we-change-the-rules-to-favor-conservatives scam.

Kind of like the lets give illegal aliens amnesty to buy their votes and in the meantime we won't require a "voter" to prove they are registered and qualified to vote so we can go ahead and get their votes now and if anyone questions it, we'll call them racist. That kind of scam?

If I'm not mistaken there has been no amnesty granted since RayGun did it in the 80's.

I had to prove who I was when I registered to vote. Now that I'm registered all I need to do is show my voter registration card to vote, or a drivers license......

Repealing the 17th would mean less democracy. I do not support repealing it.

 

[Avatar4321]

You're ignoring the gerrymandering. The ruling party of a state legislature gets to gerrymander the districts so they have a disproportionately higher representation.

Then we pass an amendment to stop Gerrymandering.

I'm not sure how you'd do that.

With a well crafted Constitutional amendment presented by the States at a Constitutional Convention.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You're ignoring the gerrymandering. The ruling party of a state legislature gets to gerrymander the districts so they have a disproportionately higher representation.

Texas' congressional lines are drawn by the state legislature, as a regular statute, subject to gubernatorial veto. The members of the state House committee with responsibility for redistricting are listed here; the members of the state Senate committee are listed here.

The legislature is also primarily responsible for drawing state legislative lines. If it fails to pass a plan, authority falls to a five-member backup commission, in place since 1948. The commission consists of the Lieutenant Governor, the Speaker of the state House, the state Attorney General, the Comptroller of Public Accounts, and the Commissioner of the General Land Office. [Tex. Const. art. III, § 28]

And yet gerrymandering still occurs, even in Texas. Concern about gerrymandering is legitimate.

Call it what you want, it's been done by both parties and it consistent with our State Constitution.


No amount if your whining will change it.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

The "Amendment" ought to abolish instead of repealed since it was NEVER adopted.

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both Houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose Amendments to this Constitution, or, on the Application of the Legislatures of two thirds of the several States, shall call a Convention for proposing Amendments, which, in either Case, shall be valid to all Intents and Purposes, as Part of this Constitution, when ratified by the Legislatures of three fourths of the several States or by Conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other Mode of Ratification may be proposed by the Congress; Provided that no Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article; and that no State, without its Consent, shall be deprived of its equal Suffrage in the Senate.[2]



Utah REJECTED the amendment and several states did not vote for it.

.

The 17th amendment doesn't deprive the states of equal suffrage in the Senate you blubbering moron. Each state still has 2 Senators. Where did you go to school? I just wanna make sure I don't send my kid there.

One could argue that the 17th amendment makes the Senators a representative of the people of the state and not the state as was originally intended.

Have any of the states that did not ratify the 17th made that argument before a U.S. court?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Then we pass an amendment to stop Gerrymandering.

I'm not sure how you'd do that.

With a well crafted Constitutional amendment presented by the States at a Constitutional Convention.

Congressional lines are drawn under State Constitutions not the federal Constitution.

 

[francoHFW]

Never-

Make gerrymandering truly illegal.

Make filibustering a true filibuster again.

Controls on lobbying, revolving door, campaign finance.

Have a two minutes of rebuttal/fact check every hour on talk radio and TV...

all because the "no compromise, Un-American GOP" (-TIME) and the power of big money are out of control. See sig.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

I'm not sure how you'd do that.

With a well crafted Constitutional amendment presented by the States at a Constitutional Convention.

Congressional lines are drawn under State Constitutions not the federal Constitution.

Hence the proposal for an AMENDMENT

sheesh

 

[g5000]

How's that joke go? A state legislator is a politician with a skeleton in his closet preventing him from running for national office.

In counterpoint, there is another expression: The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Gerrymandering and the ease with which state legislators could be bribed, blackmailed, or otherwise corrupted are legitimate concerns.

However...

Federal power has usurped the power of the states. Nowadays it goes by the name of "pre-emption" and even Republicans are doing it. I believe this long history of federal abuse is of much greater consequence and concern than gerrymandering or a state senator with a drinking problem he is hiding.

We must restore the Senate to its original and proper role as a check on federal powers. We must do more than pay lip service to "checks and balances".

How to deal with gerrymandering is a separate subject.

 

[PrometheusBound]

The purpose of a Senator is different than the purpose of a Representative. The senators represent the state's interests where the representative represent the constituent's interests. That's why each state has the same number.

No

They both represent the people

The Founders clearly stated the Senate represents the states and the states' authority over the federal government. The 17th amendment greatly undermined that intent.

In other words, only politicians can represent the states in the federal government. What makes you anti-democrats so conceited? You only get where you are through birth or brown-nosing. And yet you say we are jealous of you. Why would we want to be like you? I'd rather stand up like a man to the self-appointed boss than lick his boots.

 

[g5000]

Repealing the 17th would mean less democracy. I do not support repealing it.

It would be less democracy, more republic.

 

[PrometheusBound]

Of course it's just another conservative how-can-we-change-the-rules-to-favor-conservatives scam.

Kind of like the lets give illegal aliens amnesty to buy their votes and in the meantime we won't require a "voter" to prove they are registered and qualified to vote so we can go ahead and get their votes now and if anyone questions it, we'll call them racist. That kind of scam?

Tu Quoque fallacy from the kind of person who brags about his non-existent "critical thinking."

 

[Lonestar_logic]

With a well crafted Constitutional amendment presented by the States at a Constitutional Convention.

Congressional lines are drawn under State Constitutions not the federal Constitution.

Hence the proposal for an AMENDMENT

sheesh

Amending the federal Constitution has no bearing on a State Constitution unless you want to amend the Tenth Amendment as well.

District lines are the responsibility of the State.

 

[JimBowie1958]

No

They both represent the people

The Founders clearly stated the Senate represents the states and the states' authority over the federal government. The 17th amendment greatly undermined that intent.

In other words, only politicians can represent the states in the federal government. What makes you anti-democrats so conceited? You only get where you are through birth or brown-nosing. And yet you say we are jealous of you. Why would we want to be like you? I'd rather stand up like a man to the self-appointed boss than lick his boots.

The difference is who is doing the buying, not whether anyone is being bought.

With election by the legislatures, the Senator is owned by the state Congress and represents the state as a unit.

With state wide election, the Senator represents the national level corporations and banks that buy their political ads by the millions for them instead, and not the state governments nor the people of the states.

 

[g5000]

No

They both represent the people

The Founders clearly stated the Senate represents the states and the states' authority over the federal government. The 17th amendment greatly undermined that intent.

In other words, only politicians can represent the states in the federal government. What makes you anti-democrats so conceited? You only get where you are through birth or brown-nosing. And yet you say we are jealous of you. Why would we want to be like you? I'd rather stand up like a man to the self-appointed boss than lick his boots.

Do you know what federal pre-emption is?

As we speak, Republican Steve King is trying to federally pre-empt state laws against animal cruelty. Republicans on the federal level also pre-empted state gaming laws for banks so the banks could not just figuratively gamble, but literally gamble, with depositor money.

Do you think a Senator selected by the state legislature would go along with a law that would pre-empt the very state legislature which selected him?

I don't. At least it would be very unlikely.

THAT is a check on federal power which has been missing ever since the 17th amendment, my friend.

 

[RKMBrown]

I agree repeal the 17th.

 

[kwc57]

I believe that is the real purpose of the drive to repeal the 17th amendment, with the restoring-states-authority-over-the-federal-government argument just the thinnest of smokescreens.


Have at it.

You "believe" ? I think its quite obvious that is fact! Everything the Republicans do is motivated by winning at any cost to democracy. Heck - a lot of them don't even think we should have a democracy. Republicans believe - and are correct - that if they limit the power of the American voter, they will be better positioned.

Does it physically hurt to be as stoopid as you are? Seroiusly, does it?

 

[bucs90]

Another way for Republicans to circumvent the popular vote

They can no longer win the Senate based on popular election. But they have managed to lock up a majority of State Legislatures

Any wonder why they want to repeal the 17th amendment?

Of course the GOP wants to eliminate more of the public voting.

They truly believe in "running it like a business" when it comes to government. Business is a dictatorship model. A single CEO calling all the shots. Power concentrated in the hands of a few. You think they believe the slugs in the mailroom or warehouse DESERVE any say-so in company operations? HELL NO. Those people need to know their place on the totem pole and shut-up.

And that's how the GOP wants government run. SMALLER government (meaning, less government workers) but, the same amount of power....just, you know, concentrated in the hands of a few- themselves of course.

They know they've lost the population. The younger generations are far more left of center than ever before, and the ones coming after them will be too. They know their brand is a dinosaur on it's last breathe. ONLY by taking the voter out of the equation can they keep power.

Just saw the piece on how the North Carolina GOP is fighting tooth and nail to stop all the college kids on NC campuses from voting. They even took Boone County NC, home of Appalachian State, and have closed ALL voting booths except ONE in the whole county!!! WHy? Well, Boone's long time residents are right wing. Boones college students are not. So, they wont those college students to stop voting. Same in all the other NC college towns.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

I believe that is the real purpose of the drive to repeal the 17th amendment, with the restoring-states-authority-over-the-federal-government argument just the thinnest of smokescreens.


Have at it.

You "believe" ? I think its quite obvious that is fact! Everything the Republicans do is motivated by winning at any cost to democracy. Heck - a lot of them don't even think we should have a democracy. Republicans believe - and are correct - that if they limit the power of the American voter, they will be better positioned.

Does it physically hurt to be as stoopid as you are? Seroiusly, does it?

You have to ask that question? Just look at the name he chose for himself.

 

[PrometheusBound]

I believe that is the real purpose of the drive to repeal the 17th amendment, with the restoring-states-authority-over-the-federal-government argument just the thinnest of smokescreens.


Have at it.

You "believe" ? I think its quite obvious that is fact! Everything the Republicans do is motivated by winning at any cost to democracy. Heck - a lot of them don't even think we should have a democracy. Republicans believe - and are correct - that if they limit the power of the American voter, they will be better positioned.

Libretardian secret oath: "What's best for the 1% is best for all you worthless little people too."