Liberalism and Limitless Welfare: An Explanation.

[frigidweirdo]

No, the joke is you seemingly trying to turn this into some kind of topic about Cuba. It's not about Cuba. However the statistics are what they are. Cuba has a higher literacy rate than the USA. Yes, a country which spends a lot more of its GDP on education.

Latin lessons What can we learn from the world rsquo s most ambitious literacy campaign - Americas - World - The Independent

"The statistics alone are enough to make the parent of the average British schoolchild green with envy: there is a strict maximum of 25 children per primary-school class, many of which have as few as 20. Secondary schools are striving towards only 15 pupils per class – less than half the UK norm."

"The vast majority of Cuba's 150,000 teachers have studied for a minimum of five years, half to master's level. And despite financial woes which prompted the government to recently announce one million public-sector job cuts, it has promised to keep investing in free education at all levels."

"Cuba spends 10 per cent of its central budget on education, compared with 4 per cent in the UK and just 2 per cent in the US, according to Unesco. The result is that three out of five Cubans over the age of 16 are in some type of formal, higher education. Wherever you travel in Cuba, just about everyone can read and write, and many have one or more academic qualifications."

"In a mere half-century, Cuba has developed one of the world's most successful free education systems, admired everywhere, from the UK to Canada to New Zealand. Yet, even though Cuba's 11 million citizens are enormously proud of the educational system that has nourished them for five decades, there is increasing concern that the country's classrooms are not preparing Cubans for life beyond education."

And the last sentence is one of the most important. However I'd say the same about the US too. However this isn't about the Cuban education system. I simply put number on top of the list and then put where the US is, I made the assumption that you'd have the ability to actually look at the list.

The point being, that money doesn't always make improvements. You need to have systems in place for improvements to take place. This seems to be a big problem in the US where politicians are unable and unwilling to improve things.

Also, I said in the last post, and I'm saying it here (are you reading what I'm writing?) that money isn't necessarily the problem as you have stated. The problem starts at the top with the President and Congress, with the Republicans and Democrats who are destroying the US for their own gains, and the people can go to hell.

Education is a political issue in almost every country where people get to vote. Even in China it's an issue and they can't vote. But in the US it seems that it's not really much of an issue in comparison with other countries for the politicians.

But it's just another symptom of the disease that's spreading and that people are ignoring.

It wasn't ME who tried to turn this into a topic on Cuba. I found some GDP education statistics, posted it with number one and the US. Nothing much more. Then it was picked up on by you or someone else, it doesn't even matter who, who tried to make this about Cuba, when it never was. If you reply back to me about Cuba when it wasn't the original point of the argument, you can't accuse me of anything.

So, do you actually have a point here?

 

[eagle1462010]

No, the joke is you seemingly trying to turn this into some kind of topic about Cuba. It's not about Cuba. However the statistics are what they are. Cuba has a higher literacy rate than the USA. Yes, a country which spends a lot more of its GDP on education.

Latin lessons What can we learn from the world rsquo s most ambitious literacy campaign - Americas - World - The Independent

"The statistics alone are enough to make the parent of the average British schoolchild green with envy: there is a strict maximum of 25 children per primary-school class, many of which have as few as 20. Secondary schools are striving towards only 15 pupils per class – less than half the UK norm."

"The vast majority of Cuba's 150,000 teachers have studied for a minimum of five years, half to master's level. And despite financial woes which prompted the government to recently announce one million public-sector job cuts, it has promised to keep investing in free education at all levels."

"Cuba spends 10 per cent of its central budget on education, compared with 4 per cent in the UK and just 2 per cent in the US, according to Unesco. The result is that three out of five Cubans over the age of 16 are in some type of formal, higher education. Wherever you travel in Cuba, just about everyone can read and write, and many have one or more academic qualifications."

"In a mere half-century, Cuba has developed one of the world's most successful free education systems, admired everywhere, from the UK to Canada to New Zealand. Yet, even though Cuba's 11 million citizens are enormously proud of the educational system that has nourished them for five decades, there is increasing concern that the country's classrooms are not preparing Cubans for life beyond education."

And the last sentence is one of the most important. However I'd say the same about the US too. However this isn't about the Cuban education system. I simply put number on top of the list and then put where the US is, I made the assumption that you'd have the ability to actually look at the list.

The point being, that money doesn't always make improvements. You need to have systems in place for improvements to take place. This seems to be a big problem in the US where politicians are unable and unwilling to improve things.

Also, I said in the last post, and I'm saying it here (are you reading what I'm writing?) that money isn't necessarily the problem as you have stated. The problem starts at the top with the President and Congress, with the Republicans and Democrats who are destroying the US for their own gains, and the people can go to hell.

Education is a political issue in almost every country where people get to vote. Even in China it's an issue and they can't vote. But in the US it seems that it's not really much of an issue in comparison with other countries for the politicians.

But it's just another symptom of the disease that's spreading and that people are ignoring.

It wasn't ME who tried to turn this into a topic on Cuba. I found some GDP education statistics, posted it with number one and the US. Nothing much more. Then it was picked up on by you or someone else, it doesn't even matter who, who tried to make this about Cuba, when it never was. If you reply back to me about Cuba when it wasn't the original point of the argument, you can't accuse me of anything.

So, do you actually have a point here?

I didn't bring up Cuba..............you did.............

I responded....................and quoted your own words.........................YES, A COUNTRY THAT SPENDS MORE OF IT'S GDP ON EDUCATION....................

Why did you post that if the problem isn't money?????????????????????? That is me questioning your point......NOT MY POINT.

 

[eagle1462010]

BS

Spending on education 6% of the GDP in this country.........We've been throwing massive money at it forever.......The Strawman of the left is that the GOP doesn't do anything about education and historical evidence is to the contrary.................Throwing money at every problem as our Gov't does doesn't always fix the problem as we've been throwing money at it forever..........

The Solution is COMMON CORE..........to lower the bar and make it easier for the lower grade earners to feel good about themselves while holding back those who excel...........Yeah, lets lower the standards to improve education........A JOKE.

Countries Compared by Education Education spending of GDP. International Statistics at NationMaster.com

% of GDP spent on Education by country.
1. Cuba, 18.7%
37. USA 5.7%

First world country.

However it's not always just pure spending that matters. It's what you do with that money.

I was talking with someone about sex education. They made a false claim, posted a report on it claiming the report backed them up, it didn't.
It said sex education which teaches abstinence with other forms of sex education, like contraceptives, was the best form. Throw the same amount of money at sex ed with ONLY abstinence and you get the worst form (worse than nothing perhaps too) of sex education.

And it was you who made the point that money is thrown at education. I agree. I also agree that lowering standards isn't the answer. I don't like the right or the left's views on education. Austria spends the same % of GDP as the US and has an education which is far better.

Seeing as the US fed govt spends 3 times more on defence, it's pretty sad.

I went back and looked at how the Cuba thing started........which is here.................

I didn't completely read this one........ I saw showing data showing Cuba and I went into the GDP side of the equation...........

Either way.............I'm showing that throwing money at it doesn't work..............I'd have to go back further to who started the education spending issue first.

 

[eagle1462010]

More logical for you perhaps.

Logic is not subjective.

You seem to think you understand liberals, when you're not one.

I was when I was young. You know the saying, "a young person who is not liberal has no heart; a mature person who is liberal has no brain".

Sure, the right get results. They get money in their pockets,

I'm with you so far...

...they get lower people killed, they get crime, they get all that they need for themselves to be better off and ef everyone else.

You lost me there. The right thinks people are responsible for their own well being. They think it's better to teach a man to fish than it is to give a man a fish. But the right is more generous with charitable giving than the left. The left is more generous with other peoples money.

What REALLY surprises me are the hangers on who don't benefit from the the Republican way and yet still vote for them, still deny the reality of the situation.

We don't always agree with who benefits. When I was younger and working, I believed that unemployment was a bad thing. When you apply for a job what do you say you were doing for the last 6 months? If unemployment wasn't available, you'd take any job for the time being. So unemployment is a short term benefit, but a long term liablity.

So, while the RICH are logical, the poorer Republicans are getting it right where the sun don't shine. And they're happy about it.

More rich are demonrat than republican. Demonrats don't care about America. I don't agree with half of what republicans stand for, but I do believe they care about America. Ronald Reagan was the first republican I supported, Jimmy "Peanut Brain" Carter was the last demonrat I supported.

Logic is perceptive if what you think is logical isn't logical for another person.

Sayings are sayings, and sometimes they're not true.
What your saying means is that the interests of the young is hope for the future. Young people look to the future. The old look to the past and want to just be comfortable with life.

However some people get older and want to live life, look to the future and hope other people around them will also be able to live a good life. Do I want the young people of the future to inherit a dead planet? No. Why? When it won't be my problem. Because maybe, even as I get older, I'm not turning into a selfish person. It happens.

Where I lost you. The right look for their own interests. It's clearly in the interests of the rich in the US to be able to ef over people in other countries. It's been happening for a long, long time now.
Iraq, Libya, Venezuela and Iran, the attack on OPEC, making sure it's fragmented, that there's little power in the anti-American parts, killing lots of people, getting Americans killed too, just so the Middle East (especially) is unstable. Who give a foowk about other people's lives as long as the rich are making money?

Crime is higher because of the right. You can't be tough on crime, without the crime. You can't profit from crime without the crime.

Louisiana is the world s prison capital NOLA.com

Here's an example of capitalist prisons for you. One purpose, make money.

Crime also allows to put people in fear so that draconian measures can be put in place more easily, but mainly for the fear factor to be able to tell people how they're going to make it better.

Back to foreign affairs, it's the same. Make al-Qaeda, make ISIS, make the instability which is clearly going to cause terrorism. Then be tough on terrorism, and gain support for talking about how being tough, how having a large military etc will make people feel safer in the future.

So you say the "The right thinks people are responsible for their own well being.", but the reality is the right needs people to fear, needs people to know their place, needs people to do what the right wants them to do.

You talk about teaching a fisherman to fish, but that isn't the Republican Party. They don't make education a massive priority. They don't say "teach a kid how to cook healthy food and to eat properly and know the nutritional value of food", they say "ef it, education costs too much money, it's not our problem to solve it". They don't talk about learning skills in school, they don't big up education. Louisiana state prisons are the perfect example. They need people to not learn their lesson so they can go back in prison and make more money for those who own and run the prisons.
It's about making money for themselves, making sure the poor don't rise up and take their jobs or their children's jobs and that the money will keep coming in.
I can give millions of examples to prove my point here.

You don't agree with Republicans but you agree they care huh? Just means you get taken in with their message. They care? How?

Bush cared about America when he made the world more unstable, made life harder for Americans abroad, got 4,500 killed in Iraq, 10 times this number maimed, plus Afghanistan on top of this. With friends like this you don't need enemies, another saying that sort of fits here.

I don't think the people at the top of the Republican Party give two hoots about the US. What they care about is their own situation and they need to keep things as they like it for their own benefit.

I'd say someone who cares about the US would want democracy (PR or something similar), would want decent education, would want decent healthcare, would want a lot of things to make the country proud. What does America have to make people proud? That it can go around the world deposing who it likes and get millions of people killed in the process? Oh, well that's just great.

Here is where it started..................

FUCK YOU.

 

[zeke]

Sorry, Zekey...but you've been snookered.

PChicky, you got ONE hit piece from a avowed Democrat hater and I googled and got I don't know (1.2 million) how many hits showing you a liar. Now I was wrong about his being a nuke sub commander. He was ONLY Admiral Rickover's chosen one for the development of the nuke sub program.

"Carter was assigned to Rickover's research team, and the young lieutenant was pushed mercilessly by the uncompromising captain. "I think, second to my own father, Rickover had more effect on my life than any other man," Carter would later say. One of the two new submarines being built was the Seawolf, and Carter taught nuclear engineering to its handpicked crew." (the Miller Center.)


Now what was it ronnie did in the military?

And you didn't even address the fact St Ronnie was a two bit movie actor with a very smart wife. How come?

 

[frigidweirdo]

1. Issues like Common core.............both parents working.............kids more worried about texting, IPODS, and their Play Station...................
IT IS A CULTURE PROBLEM..............

Oh, I agree. However sometimes you have to work within certain parameters of life. People get to make choices in life about their individual life.
However govts get to choose too. The US is a country that has based itself around working a lot. Compared to the French, for example, where there are limits on working hours that are more strict. So the US has taken a choice, but then seems to throw it back to individuals to say it's their choice instead.

But mass education is for the govt to make the choices. Do they want a workforce that is highly educated, and also highly skilled for the jobs that need doing? Or do they not care about kids going into the adult world with the skills they need to succeed in jobs and also in adult life?

2. Common core..........teaching standardized test........instead of allowing the Teachers to push the issue where they see areas needing improvement from their
classes..................

This I disagree with. You're concerned with topics. Topics are just a medium with which to pass on skills. Learning Geography is a waste of time for 99% of school students. Who cares where Alaska is? It doesn't help me much in my future life, and chances are I'll learn it if I need it. Learning about erosion too, who cares unless you're going to specialise in this.

Traditional subjects are outdated. They can be used as tools to get kids learning skills they need. But I doubt many schools know what skills will be needed by their pupils when they get to the age of 25.

History is a great subject to teach lateral thinking, also how to present things and so on. But it needs to be set out with this in mind. I've seen it happen and it can work. But I'd still like it to be better.

Again, you brought this topic up........I didn't.................You purposely mentioned the money spent and quoted Cuba...........I didn't..............

then in the same post you praise the data from Cuba and contradict yourself in the same post by saying it's not about the money...............

Cuba, for the money it spends on education, which is extremely limited, does a good job. But do you expect me to be black or white, to say Cuba is amazing or bad? No, part of the point is the importance that Cuba places on education compared to the US. It doesn't spend MORE money than the US, it spends a higher percentage of GDP.

However, you say I contradict myself. Not at all.

No money will lead to a poor education system.
Lots of money doesn't necessarily mean a great education system.
A great and well funded education system will be better than a system with one or the other of these two but not both.

Again, it's not black or white.

What are the solutions since you have now admitted it isn't the money.....................

Do you agree with common core............................

How do we force kids to learn when they'd rather play on the play station.....................

.........................................

A lot of times it's about manipulating students. In China you study at high school to get into a good university. Your life will depend on whether you get into a tier one university or not. Welfare here is an issue, and this is one of those issues where I really don't agree with either side on the best way of making it work.

I agree with welfare, but I also think for young workers it should be minimal. In fact I think young people, like under 25 should only get welfare if they are doing something, more education (and achieving results). Also that welfare payouts increase the more someone has paid into the system. So a 55 year old who's worked their whole life will get the support they need, whereas a 22 year old won't.

When kids are forced to react to the real world from a young age, get the pressure from parents, it can have a good impact, if done right.

Education should be relevant. Like I have spoken about with technical schools. Having kids learning stuff that means something to them. You're going to be a mechanic (we need mechanics, it's a good job) why study History, Geography etc?
However technical schools don't just teach the subject that is going to be their job, but any subjects that are taught can be relevant to the job they will do. If they teach math, make it math related to their job, for example. It helps kids understand better.

Where money comes in is with teachers. Teachers should be teaching a number of hours that allows them to do professional development, rewards good teachers, allows struggling teachers to improve.

Also teacher networks where this is promoted, I've seen this done on a small scale, like 6 schools or so, each helping the other, and it really worked well.

Support for children needs to be relevant. Some kids struggle for a variety of reasons and these need to be addressed. Bullying and things like this need to be targeted massively. Schools need to be a positive environment for all. Not just good kids doing well.
I believe in tiering classes, keeping kids back if they are failing, allowing smarter kids to move ahead with other smarter kids and so on.

From a cultural point of view, I think making parents more responsible for their kids. The US has a Bill of Rights. No Bill of Responsibility. People know their rights.

Also, the attitude I've seen on here needs to change massively. The topic of Michelle Obama's attempt at stopping schools serving more than one ketchup and people got all pissy about it. For me this is something important. Food is a part of learning, it helps you learn better, it means you're more active, the brain works better. But also from the point of view of govt interference, I can understand why people don't trust the govt, but when they're fighting against development of education and supporting politicians who fight against it, then we have a big problem.

 

[frigidweirdo]

More logical for you perhaps.

Logic is not subjective.

You seem to think you understand liberals, when you're not one.

I was when I was young. You know the saying, "a young person who is not liberal has no heart; a mature person who is liberal has no brain".

Sure, the right get results. They get money in their pockets,

I'm with you so far...

...they get lower people killed, they get crime, they get all that they need for themselves to be better off and ef everyone else.

You lost me there. The right thinks people are responsible for their own well being. They think it's better to teach a man to fish than it is to give a man a fish. But the right is more generous with charitable giving than the left. The left is more generous with other peoples money.

What REALLY surprises me are the hangers on who don't benefit from the the Republican way and yet still vote for them, still deny the reality of the situation.

We don't always agree with who benefits. When I was younger and working, I believed that unemployment was a bad thing. When you apply for a job what do you say you were doing for the last 6 months? If unemployment wasn't available, you'd take any job for the time being. So unemployment is a short term benefit, but a long term liablity.

So, while the RICH are logical, the poorer Republicans are getting it right where the sun don't shine. And they're happy about it.

More rich are demonrat than republican. Demonrats don't care about America. I don't agree with half of what republicans stand for, but I do believe they care about America. Ronald Reagan was the first republican I supported, Jimmy "Peanut Brain" Carter was the last demonrat I supported.

Logic is perceptive if what you think is logical isn't logical for another person.

Sayings are sayings, and sometimes they're not true.
What your saying means is that the interests of the young is hope for the future. Young people look to the future. The old look to the past and want to just be comfortable with life.

However some people get older and want to live life, look to the future and hope other people around them will also be able to live a good life. Do I want the young people of the future to inherit a dead planet? No. Why? When it won't be my problem. Because maybe, even as I get older, I'm not turning into a selfish person. It happens.

Where I lost you. The right look for their own interests. It's clearly in the interests of the rich in the US to be able to ef over people in other countries. It's been happening for a long, long time now.
Iraq, Libya, Venezuela and Iran, the attack on OPEC, making sure it's fragmented, that there's little power in the anti-American parts, killing lots of people, getting Americans killed too, just so the Middle East (especially) is unstable. Who give a foowk about other people's lives as long as the rich are making money?

Crime is higher because of the right. You can't be tough on crime, without the crime. You can't profit from crime without the crime.

Louisiana is the world s prison capital NOLA.com

Here's an example of capitalist prisons for you. One purpose, make money.

Crime also allows to put people in fear so that draconian measures can be put in place more easily, but mainly for the fear factor to be able to tell people how they're going to make it better.

Back to foreign affairs, it's the same. Make al-Qaeda, make ISIS, make the instability which is clearly going to cause terrorism. Then be tough on terrorism, and gain support for talking about how being tough, how having a large military etc will make people feel safer in the future.

So you say the "The right thinks people are responsible for their own well being.", but the reality is the right needs people to fear, needs people to know their place, needs people to do what the right wants them to do.

You talk about teaching a fisherman to fish, but that isn't the Republican Party. They don't make education a massive priority. They don't say "teach a kid how to cook healthy food and to eat properly and know the nutritional value of food", they say "ef it, education costs too much money, it's not our problem to solve it". They don't talk about learning skills in school, they don't big up education. Louisiana state prisons are the perfect example. They need people to not learn their lesson so they can go back in prison and make more money for those who own and run the prisons.
It's about making money for themselves, making sure the poor don't rise up and take their jobs or their children's jobs and that the money will keep coming in.
I can give millions of examples to prove my point here.

You don't agree with Republicans but you agree they care huh? Just means you get taken in with their message. They care? How?

Bush cared about America when he made the world more unstable, made life harder for Americans abroad, got 4,500 killed in Iraq, 10 times this number maimed, plus Afghanistan on top of this. With friends like this you don't need enemies, another saying that sort of fits here.

I don't think the people at the top of the Republican Party give two hoots about the US. What they care about is their own situation and they need to keep things as they like it for their own benefit.

I'd say someone who cares about the US would want democracy (PR or something similar), would want decent education, would want decent healthcare, would want a lot of things to make the country proud. What does America have to make people proud? That it can go around the world deposing who it likes and get millions of people killed in the process? Oh, well that's just great.

Here is where it started..................

FUCK YOU.

Oh, well done, gone to swearing now.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Sorry, Zekey...but you've been snookered.

PChicky, you got ONE hit piece from a avowed Democrat hater and I googled and got I don't know (1.2 million) how many hits showing you a liar. Now I was wrong about his being a nuke sub commander. He was ONLY Admiral Rickover's chosen one for the development of the nuke sub program.

"Carter was assigned to Rickover's research team, and the young lieutenant was pushed mercilessly by the uncompromising captain. "I think, second to my own father, Rickover had more effect on my life than any other man," Carter would later say. One of the two new submarines being built was the Seawolf, and Carter taught nuclear engineering to its handpicked crew." (the Miller Center.)


Now what was it ronnie did in the military?

And you didn't even address the fact St Ronnie was a two bit movie actor with a very smart wife. How come?

1. Every thing I posted about the failure, Carter, was a fact.

2. "Now what was it ronnie did in the military?"
The great one ended the possibility of war with the Evil Empire...without firing a shot.
No greater accomplishment could be attributed to a commander in chief.

3. "(1.2 million) how many hits showing you a liar."
I never lie.
You provided zero links.....strange.

 

[eagle1462010]

More logical for you perhaps.

Logic is not subjective.

You seem to think you understand liberals, when you're not one.

I was when I was young. You know the saying, "a young person who is not liberal has no heart; a mature person who is liberal has no brain".

Sure, the right get results. They get money in their pockets,

I'm with you so far...

...they get lower people killed, they get crime, they get all that they need for themselves to be better off and ef everyone else.

You lost me there. The right thinks people are responsible for their own well being. They think it's better to teach a man to fish than it is to give a man a fish. But the right is more generous with charitable giving than the left. The left is more generous with other peoples money.

What REALLY surprises me are the hangers on who don't benefit from the the Republican way and yet still vote for them, still deny the reality of the situation.

We don't always agree with who benefits. When I was younger and working, I believed that unemployment was a bad thing. When you apply for a job what do you say you were doing for the last 6 months? If unemployment wasn't available, you'd take any job for the time being. So unemployment is a short term benefit, but a long term liablity.

So, while the RICH are logical, the poorer Republicans are getting it right where the sun don't shine. And they're happy about it.

More rich are demonrat than republican. Demonrats don't care about America. I don't agree with half of what republicans stand for, but I do believe they care about America. Ronald Reagan was the first republican I supported, Jimmy "Peanut Brain" Carter was the last demonrat I supported.

Logic is perceptive if what you think is logical isn't logical for another person.

Sayings are sayings, and sometimes they're not true.
What your saying means is that the interests of the young is hope for the future. Young people look to the future. The old look to the past and want to just be comfortable with life.

However some people get older and want to live life, look to the future and hope other people around them will also be able to live a good life. Do I want the young people of the future to inherit a dead planet? No. Why? When it won't be my problem. Because maybe, even as I get older, I'm not turning into a selfish person. It happens.

Where I lost you. The right look for their own interests. It's clearly in the interests of the rich in the US to be able to ef over people in other countries. It's been happening for a long, long time now.
Iraq, Libya, Venezuela and Iran, the attack on OPEC, making sure it's fragmented, that there's little power in the anti-American parts, killing lots of people, getting Americans killed too, just so the Middle East (especially) is unstable. Who give a foowk about other people's lives as long as the rich are making money?

Crime is higher because of the right. You can't be tough on crime, without the crime. You can't profit from crime without the crime.

Louisiana is the world s prison capital NOLA.com

Here's an example of capitalist prisons for you. One purpose, make money.

Crime also allows to put people in fear so that draconian measures can be put in place more easily, but mainly for the fear factor to be able to tell people how they're going to make it better.

Back to foreign affairs, it's the same. Make al-Qaeda, make ISIS, make the instability which is clearly going to cause terrorism. Then be tough on terrorism, and gain support for talking about how being tough, how having a large military etc will make people feel safer in the future.

So you say the "The right thinks people are responsible for their own well being.", but the reality is the right needs people to fear, needs people to know their place, needs people to do what the right wants them to do.

You talk about teaching a fisherman to fish, but that isn't the Republican Party. They don't make education a massive priority. They don't say "teach a kid how to cook healthy food and to eat properly and know the nutritional value of food", they say "ef it, education costs too much money, it's not our problem to solve it". They don't talk about learning skills in school, they don't big up education. Louisiana state prisons are the perfect example. They need people to not learn their lesson so they can go back in prison and make more money for those who own and run the prisons.
It's about making money for themselves, making sure the poor don't rise up and take their jobs or their children's jobs and that the money will keep coming in.
I can give millions of examples to prove my point here.

You don't agree with Republicans but you agree they care huh? Just means you get taken in with their message. They care? How?

Bush cared about America when he made the world more unstable, made life harder for Americans abroad, got 4,500 killed in Iraq, 10 times this number maimed, plus Afghanistan on top of this. With friends like this you don't need enemies, another saying that sort of fits here.

I don't think the people at the top of the Republican Party give two hoots about the US. What they care about is their own situation and they need to keep things as they like it for their own benefit.

I'd say someone who cares about the US would want democracy (PR or something similar), would want decent education, would want decent healthcare, would want a lot of things to make the country proud. What does America have to make people proud? That it can go around the world deposing who it likes and get millions of people killed in the process? Oh, well that's just great.

Here is where it started..................

FUCK YOU.

Oh, well done, gone to swearing now.

You blatantly stated ABSOLUTE LIES..........which is why I said FU.............

You started this fight...........Stating that top republicans don't give a hoot about the US............STRAW MAN LIBERAL TALKING POINT.

Then you accused that they should want a decent education.................Show where they don't want that for our kids............

They don't make education a massive priority.........Another Lie.........as education spending and programs expanded under Bush.......

They say if education cost's too much, it's not our problem to solve it.......................

BLATANT LIES............................

FROM YOU.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Because the education industry is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc.

Rather than education, their main interests are along these lines:

"The California Federation of Teachers (CFT)passed a resolution at its most recent convention claiming that “the continued unjust incarceration of Mumia Abu-Jamal represents a threat to the civil rights of all people.” Thirty years ago, Abu-Jamal took away Philadelphia policeman Daniel Faulkner’s foremost civil right: his life. How obtuse of the CFT to disregard “the threat to the civil rights of all people” represented by someone capable of gunning down a man tasked with protecting the public.

The pantheon of leftist saints includes the Haymarket Square bombers, responsible for the deaths of eight Chicago cops, Joe Hill, murderer of former police officer John Morrison in Salt Lake City, Huey Newton, murderer of Oakland policeman John Frey, and Leonard Peltier, murderer of FBI agents Jack Coler and Ronald Williams. Notice a pattern?"
Teachers' Mumia Abu-Jamal Resolution Out of Sync Morally and Historically | Human Events

I'm failing to see what this has to do with anything.

So the passed some resolution based on something that has nothing to do with anything. So what?

Questions that need to be asked are. If liberals who are more interested in politics than education run things, then why haven't the right ever done anything to change things?
Why has this situation allowed to exist and stay, even when Republicans run a lot of states and half the time run the USA?
And many more questions on such a line.

"And yet the US education system isn't succeeding, especially for poorer kids. Why not?"

I answered that and provided a prime example to support same.



"I'm failing to see...."

Exactly.

 

[frigidweirdo]

You blatantly stated ABSOLUTE LIES..........which is why I said FU.............

You started this fight...........Stating that top republicans don't give a hoot about the US............STRAW MAN LIBERAL TALKING POINT.

Then you accused that they should want a decent education.................Show where they don't want that for our kids............

They don't make education a massive priority.........Another Lie.........as education spending and programs expanded under Bush.......

They say if education cost's too much, it's not our problem to solve it.......................

BLATANT LIES............................

FROM YOU.

So you want a fight huh? Then go find someone else who is interested in a fight. You want to debate or not? You think I said something and blah blah, I don't even CARE, it's nonsense.

If you want to debate, read on. You don't, then don't.


As I've said, throwing money at something doesn't necessarily work, it also doesn't mean that someone cares. I made my point, if you wish to counter this point, then fine. If you wish to insult, go away, if you wish to have a slagging match, then go away.

 

[eagle1462010]

1. Issues like Common core.............both parents working.............kids more worried about texting, IPODS, and their Play Station...................
IT IS A CULTURE PROBLEM..............

Oh, I agree. However sometimes you have to work within certain parameters of life. People get to make choices in life about their individual life.
However govts get to choose too. The US is a country that has based itself around working a lot. Compared to the French, for example, where there are limits on working hours that are more strict. So the US has taken a choice, but then seems to throw it back to individuals to say it's their choice instead.

But mass education is for the govt to make the choices. Do they want a workforce that is highly educated, and also highly skilled for the jobs that need doing? Or do they not care about kids going into the adult world with the skills they need to succeed in jobs and also in adult life?

2. Common core..........teaching standardized test........instead of allowing the Teachers to push the issue where they see areas needing improvement from their
classes..................

This I disagree with. You're concerned with topics. Topics are just a medium with which to pass on skills. Learning Geography is a waste of time for 99% of school students. Who cares where Alaska is? It doesn't help me much in my future life, and chances are I'll learn it if I need it. Learning about erosion too, who cares unless you're going to specialise in this.

Traditional subjects are outdated. They can be used as tools to get kids learning skills they need. But I doubt many schools know what skills will be needed by their pupils when they get to the age of 25.

History is a great subject to teach lateral thinking, also how to present things and so on. But it needs to be set out with this in mind. I've seen it happen and it can work. But I'd still like it to be better.

Again, you brought this topic up........I didn't.................You purposely mentioned the money spent and quoted Cuba...........I didn't..............

then in the same post you praise the data from Cuba and contradict yourself in the same post by saying it's not about the money...............

Cuba, for the money it spends on education, which is extremely limited, does a good job. But do you expect me to be black or white, to say Cuba is amazing or bad? No, part of the point is the importance that Cuba places on education compared to the US. It doesn't spend MORE money than the US, it spends a higher percentage of GDP.

However, you say I contradict myself. Not at all.

No money will lead to a poor education system.
Lots of money doesn't necessarily mean a great education system.
A great and well funded education system will be better than a system with one or the other of these two but not both.

Again, it's not black or white.

What are the solutions since you have now admitted it isn't the money.....................

Do you agree with common core............................

How do we force kids to learn when they'd rather play on the play station.....................

.........................................

A lot of times it's about manipulating students. In China you study at high school to get into a good university. Your life will depend on whether you get into a tier one university or not. Welfare here is an issue, and this is one of those issues where I really don't agree with either side on the best way of making it work.

I agree with welfare, but I also think for young workers it should be minimal. In fact I think young people, like under 25 should only get welfare if they are doing something, more education (and achieving results). Also that welfare payouts increase the more someone has paid into the system. So a 55 year old who's worked their whole life will get the support they need, whereas a 22 year old won't.

When kids are forced to react to the real world from a young age, get the pressure from parents, it can have a good impact, if done right.

Education should be relevant. Like I have spoken about with technical schools. Having kids learning stuff that means something to them. You're going to be a mechanic (we need mechanics, it's a good job) why study History, Geography etc?
However technical schools don't just teach the subject that is going to be their job, but any subjects that are taught can be relevant to the job they will do. If they teach math, make it math related to their job, for example. It helps kids understand better.

Where money comes in is with teachers. Teachers should be teaching a number of hours that allows them to do professional development, rewards good teachers, allows struggling teachers to improve.

Also teacher networks where this is promoted, I've seen this done on a small scale, like 6 schools or so, each helping the other, and it really worked well.

Support for children needs to be relevant. Some kids struggle for a variety of reasons and these need to be addressed. Bullying and things like this need to be targeted massively. Schools need to be a positive environment for all. Not just good kids doing well.
I believe in tiering classes, keeping kids back if they are failing, allowing smarter kids to move ahead with other smarter kids and so on.

From a cultural point of view, I think making parents more responsible for their kids. The US has a Bill of Rights. No Bill of Responsibility. People know their rights.

Also, the attitude I've seen on here needs to change massively. The topic of Michelle Obama's attempt at stopping schools serving more than one ketchup and people got all pissy about it. For me this is something important. Food is a part of learning, it helps you learn better, it means you're more active, the brain works better. But also from the point of view of govt interference, I can understand why people don't trust the govt, but when they're fighting against development of education and supporting politicians who fight against it, then we have a big problem.

Summing it up...........

1. You agree with me on common core.
2. You don't like Geography. See no importance in it..........WE'LL disagree there.
3. Traditional skills are outdated..........WE'll disagree there as well. Reading, Math, Science, History are basic fundamentals.
4. Again you bring up Cuba on cost per GDP even after we have both agreed it is not the issue.
5. Tech Schools and Trade Schools...... I agree and they are offered to students who apply........money is there........they must choose to do so.
6. You ditch History and Geography again...........I disagree.......They should know our history and should be able to read a dang map.
7. Teachers pay should be reward based on ability. We agree.
8. Bullying needs to be addressed.....that is as old as it gets.........it's been going on forever and how is it dealt wrong now..
9. Parents need to be more involved. We agree......but we don't need a parents bill of rights.
10. We should support Michele's school lunch program.........We disagree.

 

[eagle1462010]

You blatantly stated ABSOLUTE LIES..........which is why I said FU.............

You started this fight...........Stating that top republicans don't give a hoot about the US............STRAW MAN LIBERAL TALKING POINT.

Then you accused that they should want a decent education.................Show where they don't want that for our kids............

They don't make education a massive priority.........Another Lie.........as education spending and programs expanded under Bush.......

They say if education cost's too much, it's not our problem to solve it.......................

BLATANT LIES............................

FROM YOU.

So you want a fight huh? Then go find someone else who is interested in a fight. You want to debate or not? You think I said something and blah blah, I don't even CARE, it's nonsense.

If you want to debate, read on. You don't, then don't.


As I've said, throwing money at something doesn't necessarily work, it also doesn't mean that someone cares. I made my point, if you wish to counter this point, then fine. If you wish to insult, go away, if you wish to have a slagging match, then go away.

YAWN...........

You drew first blood..............by making false accusations.............end of discussion.............

Don't do that and you will not get return fire from me.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The One Cent Solution Penny Plan balances the federal budget by 2019.

The Three Keys
1. A Plan that Works
The One Cent Solution is beautifully simple: If the government cuts one cent out of every dollar of its total spending (excluding interest payments) each year for five years, and then caps overall federal spending at 18 percent of national income from then on, we can:

• Reduce federal spending by $7.5 trillion over 10 years.
• Balance the budget by 2019.

Moreover, instead of using inflated budget “baselines” to claim nonexistent spending “cuts” a common practice in Washington, the One Cent Solution calls for real cuts. Under the One Cent plan, the sum of all discretionary and entitlement spending will have to go down from one year to the next, by one percent or more.

2. Legislative Strategy
The One Percent Spending Reduction Act of 2011 embodies the principles of the One Cent Solution. Also known as the “Penny Plan” on Capitol Hill, this legislation was introduced by Congressman Connie Mack (R-FL) and Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) and is currently supported by 71 Members of the House and 13 Members of the Senate. Visit our current legislation page to view the list.

The “Penny Plan” legislation would cap overall spending to fit within the One Cent Solution targets. The legislation then calls on Congress to evaluate all areas of the federal government to make certain that future spending fits under the caps.

Under the One Cent Solution or “Penny Plan”, not all programs must be cut by one percent. Congress may determine that some programs are too critical to cut, but that would require that other programs be reduced more so that the total amount cut is equal to one cent for every dollar each year for six years.

For example, let’s say the federal budget only had three programs, each with an annual budget of $1.00. How might Congress meet the One Cent mandate?

1. Congress cuts Program A by one cent every year for six years. That means the annual budget for Program A is $0.99 in year one and then $0.98, $0.97, $0.96, $0.95 and finally $0.94.
2. Program B is found to be essential and efficient — Congress chooses not to cut Program B.
3. Program C is outdated and needs to be restructured — Congress cuts two cents each year for six years from Program C.

In this example, Congress is able to make program-by-program decisions to bring spending within the One Cent Solution caps. If Congress fails to make those tough decisions, then automatic, across-the-board cuts would be imposed to make sure the caps were enforced. The One Cent Solution is a “belt and suspenders” approach to making certain spending is brought under control and the budget is balanced.

3. Public Support

That's a fascinating pipe dream. How will it solve poverty and create good paying jobs?

It is all interconnected with the entire problem, buy your rhetoric will not allow you to see that will it.......................

It is about our economy as a whole...............and the endless cycle of debt that leads to the devaluation of our currency............Now you can go and do as others and show our currency increasing in value versus other currencies in the current currency Wars.............All across the world these manipulators of FIAT PAPER are rigging the system NOT ON REAL THINGS...........BUT PAPER...............

Part of our economic problem is that our currency losing it's value as it has been since the 70's..............Our buying power and the cost of buying everyday items is part of the Standard of Living for our country.................

The ultimate FIX is NOT FROM GOV'T...............as people like you keep saying.........Like WE NEED A JOBS BILL..........WE NEED MINIMUM WAGE INCREASES.............those are not the ultimate fix.............The Ultimate fix is PRIVATE and NOT MORE BORROWING AND MORE FEDERAL DEBT.............

Which means we need to encourage INVESTMENT by simplifying tax codes and STOP REGULATING INDUSTRY TO DEATH................See the 10 thousand commandments...............

At the same time we need to end Free Trade...............and place tariffs on unfair trade agreements............

All is interconnected.............

PIPE DREAM..........only if you are a FOOL.........anyone that says we can't CUT 1 CENT ON THE DOLLAR off the Federal Budget a year for a period of 6 years is a FOOL............and shouldn't hold ANY OFFICE.............

I've shown the waste on this very thread again...........Tell me who has cut THESE ABSOLUTE FRAUD SPENDING on the American Taxpayers........................see Wastebook..........

I have posted these very areas many many times on many of threads and a hell of a lot more.

You chose to ignore it...........as always............as does the Status Quo of both parties....................BECAUSE YOU WANT MORE GOV'T.......................

and that is the problem.

Because the education industry is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc.

Rather than education, their main interests are along these lines:

"The California Federation of Teachers (CFT)passed a resolution at its most recent convention claiming that “the continued unjust incarceration of Mumia Abu-Jamal represents a threat to the civil rights of all people.” Thirty years ago, Abu-Jamal took away Philadelphia policeman Daniel Faulkner’s foremost civil right: his life. How obtuse of the CFT to disregard “the threat to the civil rights of all people” represented by someone capable of gunning down a man tasked with protecting the public.

The pantheon of leftist saints includes the Haymarket Square bombers, responsible for the deaths of eight Chicago cops, Joe Hill, murderer of former police officer John Morrison in Salt Lake City, Huey Newton, murderer of Oakland policeman John Frey, and Leonard Peltier, murderer of FBI agents Jack Coler and Ronald Williams. Notice a pattern?"
Teachers' Mumia Abu-Jamal Resolution Out of Sync Morally and Historically | Human Events

I'm failing to see what this has to do with anything.

So the passed some resolution based on something that has nothing to do with anything. So what?

Questions that need to be asked are. If liberals who are more interested in politics than education run things, then why haven't the right ever done anything to change things?
Why has this situation allowed to exist and stay, even when Republicans run a lot of states and half the time run the USA?
And many more questions on such a line.

"And yet the US education system isn't succeeding, especially for poorer kids. Why not?"

I answered that and provided a prime example to support same.



"I'm failing to see...."

Exactly.

Do you realize that poor kids only even get to go to school in this country because we have a socialist school system?

In your free market non-socialist vision of America, who would pay for the education of the children whose parents could not afford the market price of an education?

lol, PC won't answer, so any of you anti-socialism types are invited to give it a shot.

 

[eagle1462010]

The One Cent Solution Penny Plan balances the federal budget by 2019.

The Three Keys
1. A Plan that Works
The One Cent Solution is beautifully simple: If the government cuts one cent out of every dollar of its total spending (excluding interest payments) each year for five years, and then caps overall federal spending at 18 percent of national income from then on, we can:

• Reduce federal spending by $7.5 trillion over 10 years.
• Balance the budget by 2019.

Moreover, instead of using inflated budget “baselines” to claim nonexistent spending “cuts” a common practice in Washington, the One Cent Solution calls for real cuts. Under the One Cent plan, the sum of all discretionary and entitlement spending will have to go down from one year to the next, by one percent or more.

2. Legislative Strategy
The One Percent Spending Reduction Act of 2011 embodies the principles of the One Cent Solution. Also known as the “Penny Plan” on Capitol Hill, this legislation was introduced by Congressman Connie Mack (R-FL) and Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) and is currently supported by 71 Members of the House and 13 Members of the Senate. Visit our current legislation page to view the list.

The “Penny Plan” legislation would cap overall spending to fit within the One Cent Solution targets. The legislation then calls on Congress to evaluate all areas of the federal government to make certain that future spending fits under the caps.

Under the One Cent Solution or “Penny Plan”, not all programs must be cut by one percent. Congress may determine that some programs are too critical to cut, but that would require that other programs be reduced more so that the total amount cut is equal to one cent for every dollar each year for six years.

For example, let’s say the federal budget only had three programs, each with an annual budget of $1.00. How might Congress meet the One Cent mandate?

1. Congress cuts Program A by one cent every year for six years. That means the annual budget for Program A is $0.99 in year one and then $0.98, $0.97, $0.96, $0.95 and finally $0.94.
2. Program B is found to be essential and efficient — Congress chooses not to cut Program B.
3. Program C is outdated and needs to be restructured — Congress cuts two cents each year for six years from Program C.

In this example, Congress is able to make program-by-program decisions to bring spending within the One Cent Solution caps. If Congress fails to make those tough decisions, then automatic, across-the-board cuts would be imposed to make sure the caps were enforced. The One Cent Solution is a “belt and suspenders” approach to making certain spending is brought under control and the budget is balanced.

3. Public Support

That's a fascinating pipe dream. How will it solve poverty and create good paying jobs?

It is all interconnected with the entire problem, buy your rhetoric will not allow you to see that will it.......................

It is about our economy as a whole...............and the endless cycle of debt that leads to the devaluation of our currency............Now you can go and do as others and show our currency increasing in value versus other currencies in the current currency Wars.............All across the world these manipulators of FIAT PAPER are rigging the system NOT ON REAL THINGS...........BUT PAPER...............

Part of our economic problem is that our currency losing it's value as it has been since the 70's..............Our buying power and the cost of buying everyday items is part of the Standard of Living for our country.................

The ultimate FIX is NOT FROM GOV'T...............as people like you keep saying.........Like WE NEED A JOBS BILL..........WE NEED MINIMUM WAGE INCREASES.............those are not the ultimate fix.............The Ultimate fix is PRIVATE and NOT MORE BORROWING AND MORE FEDERAL DEBT.............

Which means we need to encourage INVESTMENT by simplifying tax codes and STOP REGULATING INDUSTRY TO DEATH................See the 10 thousand commandments...............

At the same time we need to end Free Trade...............and place tariffs on unfair trade agreements............

All is interconnected.............

PIPE DREAM..........only if you are a FOOL.........anyone that says we can't CUT 1 CENT ON THE DOLLAR off the Federal Budget a year for a period of 6 years is a FOOL............and shouldn't hold ANY OFFICE.............

I've shown the waste on this very thread again...........Tell me who has cut THESE ABSOLUTE FRAUD SPENDING on the American Taxpayers........................see Wastebook..........

I have posted these very areas many many times on many of threads and a hell of a lot more.

You chose to ignore it...........as always............as does the Status Quo of both parties....................BECAUSE YOU WANT MORE GOV'T.......................

and that is the problem.

Because the education industry is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc.

Rather than education, their main interests are along these lines:

"The California Federation of Teachers (CFT)passed a resolution at its most recent convention claiming that “the continued unjust incarceration of Mumia Abu-Jamal represents a threat to the civil rights of all people.” Thirty years ago, Abu-Jamal took away Philadelphia policeman Daniel Faulkner’s foremost civil right: his life. How obtuse of the CFT to disregard “the threat to the civil rights of all people” represented by someone capable of gunning down a man tasked with protecting the public.

The pantheon of leftist saints includes the Haymarket Square bombers, responsible for the deaths of eight Chicago cops, Joe Hill, murderer of former police officer John Morrison in Salt Lake City, Huey Newton, murderer of Oakland policeman John Frey, and Leonard Peltier, murderer of FBI agents Jack Coler and Ronald Williams. Notice a pattern?"
Teachers' Mumia Abu-Jamal Resolution Out of Sync Morally and Historically | Human Events

I'm failing to see what this has to do with anything.

So the passed some resolution based on something that has nothing to do with anything. So what?

Questions that need to be asked are. If liberals who are more interested in politics than education run things, then why haven't the right ever done anything to change things?
Why has this situation allowed to exist and stay, even when Republicans run a lot of states and half the time run the USA?
And many more questions on such a line.

"And yet the US education system isn't succeeding, especially for poorer kids. Why not?"

I answered that and provided a prime example to support same.



"I'm failing to see...."

Exactly.

Do you realize that poor kids only even get to go to school in this country because we have a socialist school system?

In your free market non-socialist vision of America, who would pay for the education of the children whose parents could not afford the market price of an education?

lol, PC won't answer, so any of you anti-socialism types are invited to give it a shot.

Trying to defend socialism again................

Education is a fundamental program in every country in the world..........Has been in every style of Government from Communism to Democracies............

It serves no purpose to make it an excuse fore SOCIALISM GOOD, CAPITALISM BAD......................

That is rhetoric of an agenda and your agenda is well known to me.

Conservatives agree our kids need an education and have never balked on providing one................it is a non issue as is the amount spent.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Conservative ignorance as to the facts and truth of public assistance programs is comprehensive and absolute; they adhere only to the myths and lies contrived to comport with errant rightwing dogma.

 

[NYcarbineer]

The One Cent Solution Penny Plan balances the federal budget by 2019.

The Three Keys
1. A Plan that Works
The One Cent Solution is beautifully simple: If the government cuts one cent out of every dollar of its total spending (excluding interest payments) each year for five years, and then caps overall federal spending at 18 percent of national income from then on, we can:

• Reduce federal spending by $7.5 trillion over 10 years.
• Balance the budget by 2019.

Moreover, instead of using inflated budget “baselines” to claim nonexistent spending “cuts” a common practice in Washington, the One Cent Solution calls for real cuts. Under the One Cent plan, the sum of all discretionary and entitlement spending will have to go down from one year to the next, by one percent or more.

2. Legislative Strategy
The One Percent Spending Reduction Act of 2011 embodies the principles of the One Cent Solution. Also known as the “Penny Plan” on Capitol Hill, this legislation was introduced by Congressman Connie Mack (R-FL) and Senator Mike Enzi (R-WY) and is currently supported by 71 Members of the House and 13 Members of the Senate. Visit our current legislation page to view the list.

The “Penny Plan” legislation would cap overall spending to fit within the One Cent Solution targets. The legislation then calls on Congress to evaluate all areas of the federal government to make certain that future spending fits under the caps.

Under the One Cent Solution or “Penny Plan”, not all programs must be cut by one percent. Congress may determine that some programs are too critical to cut, but that would require that other programs be reduced more so that the total amount cut is equal to one cent for every dollar each year for six years.

For example, let’s say the federal budget only had three programs, each with an annual budget of $1.00. How might Congress meet the One Cent mandate?

1. Congress cuts Program A by one cent every year for six years. That means the annual budget for Program A is $0.99 in year one and then $0.98, $0.97, $0.96, $0.95 and finally $0.94.
2. Program B is found to be essential and efficient — Congress chooses not to cut Program B.
3. Program C is outdated and needs to be restructured — Congress cuts two cents each year for six years from Program C.

In this example, Congress is able to make program-by-program decisions to bring spending within the One Cent Solution caps. If Congress fails to make those tough decisions, then automatic, across-the-board cuts would be imposed to make sure the caps were enforced. The One Cent Solution is a “belt and suspenders” approach to making certain spending is brought under control and the budget is balanced.

3. Public Support

That's a fascinating pipe dream. How will it solve poverty and create good paying jobs?

It is all interconnected with the entire problem, buy your rhetoric will not allow you to see that will it.......................

It is about our economy as a whole...............and the endless cycle of debt that leads to the devaluation of our currency............Now you can go and do as others and show our currency increasing in value versus other currencies in the current currency Wars.............All across the world these manipulators of FIAT PAPER are rigging the system NOT ON REAL THINGS...........BUT PAPER...............

Part of our economic problem is that our currency losing it's value as it has been since the 70's..............Our buying power and the cost of buying everyday items is part of the Standard of Living for our country.................

The ultimate FIX is NOT FROM GOV'T...............as people like you keep saying.........Like WE NEED A JOBS BILL..........WE NEED MINIMUM WAGE INCREASES.............those are not the ultimate fix.............The Ultimate fix is PRIVATE and NOT MORE BORROWING AND MORE FEDERAL DEBT.............

Which means we need to encourage INVESTMENT by simplifying tax codes and STOP REGULATING INDUSTRY TO DEATH................See the 10 thousand commandments...............

At the same time we need to end Free Trade...............and place tariffs on unfair trade agreements............

All is interconnected.............

PIPE DREAM..........only if you are a FOOL.........anyone that says we can't CUT 1 CENT ON THE DOLLAR off the Federal Budget a year for a period of 6 years is a FOOL............and shouldn't hold ANY OFFICE.............

I've shown the waste on this very thread again...........Tell me who has cut THESE ABSOLUTE FRAUD SPENDING on the American Taxpayers........................see Wastebook..........

I have posted these very areas many many times on many of threads and a hell of a lot more.

You chose to ignore it...........as always............as does the Status Quo of both parties....................BECAUSE YOU WANT MORE GOV'T.......................

and that is the problem.

Because the education industry is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Liberalism, Inc.

Rather than education, their main interests are along these lines:

"The California Federation of Teachers (CFT)passed a resolution at its most recent convention claiming that “the continued unjust incarceration of Mumia Abu-Jamal represents a threat to the civil rights of all people.” Thirty years ago, Abu-Jamal took away Philadelphia policeman Daniel Faulkner’s foremost civil right: his life. How obtuse of the CFT to disregard “the threat to the civil rights of all people” represented by someone capable of gunning down a man tasked with protecting the public.

The pantheon of leftist saints includes the Haymarket Square bombers, responsible for the deaths of eight Chicago cops, Joe Hill, murderer of former police officer John Morrison in Salt Lake City, Huey Newton, murderer of Oakland policeman John Frey, and Leonard Peltier, murderer of FBI agents Jack Coler and Ronald Williams. Notice a pattern?"
Teachers' Mumia Abu-Jamal Resolution Out of Sync Morally and Historically | Human Events

I'm failing to see what this has to do with anything.

So the passed some resolution based on something that has nothing to do with anything. So what?

Questions that need to be asked are. If liberals who are more interested in politics than education run things, then why haven't the right ever done anything to change things?
Why has this situation allowed to exist and stay, even when Republicans run a lot of states and half the time run the USA?
And many more questions on such a line.

"And yet the US education system isn't succeeding, especially for poorer kids. Why not?"

I answered that and provided a prime example to support same.



"I'm failing to see...."

Exactly.

Do you realize that poor kids only even get to go to school in this country because we have a socialist school system?

In your free market non-socialist vision of America, who would pay for the education of the children whose parents could not afford the market price of an education?

lol, PC won't answer, so any of you anti-socialism types are invited to give it a shot.

Trying to defend socialism again................

Education is a fundamental program in every country in the world..........Has been in every style of Government from Communism to Democracies............

It serves no purpose to make it an excuse fore SOCIALISM GOOD, CAPITALISM BAD......................

That is rhetoric of an agenda and your agenda is well known to me.

Conservatives agree our kids need an education and have never balked on providing one................it is a non issue as is the amount spent.

Right, so conservatives agree that the free market and the private sector can't do everything, and that socialism is in fact the appropriate approach in some circumstances.

Education is one. Healthcare should be another.

Why do conservatives, as you claim, accept socialism in education but reject socialized medicine?

Or, perhaps, as I have said many times, conservatives really don't reject socialized medicine at least to the extent that it provides healthcare to those who otherwise couldn't afford it at market prices.

 

[eagle1462010]

Conservative ignorance as to the facts and truth of public assistance programs is comprehensive and absolute; they adhere only to the myths and lies contrived to comport with errant rightwing dogma.

Then state the facts based on sources and not just dogma from your side.............

Disprove the data posted on this thread as I presented it.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Although I don't ever see it happening, I'm more and more inclined to support the idea that every American get a guaranteed basic income,

regardless of their situation, that replaces all or most of the programs for the poor.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Conservative ignorance as to the facts and truth of public assistance programs is comprehensive and absolute; they adhere only to the myths and lies contrived to comport with errant rightwing dogma.

Then state the facts based on sources and not just dogma from your side.............

Disprove the data posted on this thread as I presented it.

The author of this thread starts by saying that welfare is limitless. That is nonsense. That 'data' is wrong.

Need proof beyond the existence of common sense?