Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent to sex

[emilynghiem]

Consent is two people of legal age agreeing through words or actions that they want to do something. Some of the extreme progressive woman are insane and just want to hang men with anything they can get their hands on.

Dear Matthew
What I found out is people don't realize that when they have sexual relations this does involve psychology and spiritual connections with
themselves and other people. Not everyone is fully aware of the implications, so not everyone is giving fully informed consent.

I would compare it with people of legal age "consenting" to do drugs like marijuana, when cultural influences are telling them there is no lasting harm.
Later they find out there was, and many ppl report had they known, they would never have started.
Same with abortion.

Too many people think they consent to sex, but regret it afterward and realize they didn't.
I would call this "relationship abuse" that it is doing things within that relationship that hurt one or both people because it is outside their TRUE limits,
conditions or bounds. They may think it was consensual, but realize if they had known the conditions and consequences attached, the true answer is no.

It takes more counseling than a one night interlude to make sure people don't abuse sex or relations.
We just can't regulate or mandate that through govt, people have to figure it out individually
and set up counseling to help prevent abuses in the future.

This lax attitude of sending mixed signals that drugs and sex don't cause any lasting risk or harm
comes across as irresponsible and unethical to teach people that, and let them learn the hard way.
Better to explain there are implications and risks, and quit pretending that you can do anything as long as you consent and it won't cause problems later.

 

[JOSweetHeart]

There's something wrong when two consenting adults, a male and a female, have sex while intoxicated, and the woman can now accuse the man of rape, but not the other way around.

Amen to this.

God bless you always!!!

Holly

P.S. To me, if you are not willing to take responsibility for what you might be setting yourself up for, don't go jumping in until you are willing.

 

[Syriusly]

Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent for sex.

However, if both the man and woman are drunk, the man has raped the woman.

Google

Feminists and liberals, please explain.

As a side note, when I was a teenager, I was in a hot tub, a girl grabbed me and gave me a full kiss on the lips. I did not encourage her in any way. She was so drunk that she didn't even remember the kiss the next morning, and I didn't tell her.

Question: Did she rape me, or did I rape her?

How hilarious- your 'link' is to a bunch of people's opinions.

Tell me Blackrook- if a person is so drunk that they pass out- and you have sex with the unconscious drunk person- is it consensual?

I was not talking about that, was I?

What's happening is a criminalizing of normal sexual behavior between men and women.

So people so drunk that they cannot remember who they had sex with is just 'normal sexual behavior between men and women'?

 

[Syriusly]

There's something wrong when two consenting adults, a male and a female, have sex while intoxicated, and the woman can now accuse the man of rape, but not the other way around.

From your 'link'- really- didn't you pretend to practice law at one point?

ELI5: if a man and a woman both get drunk and have intercourse, why is the man charged with rape due to the woman not being able to consent due to being intoxicated, when, by the same logic, the man is intoxicated so cannot give consent either? • /r/explainlikeimfive

This isn't an accurate statement of the law, at least not in any jurisdiction I'm familiar with (I'm a military prosecutor by trade). However, this is consistent with what I've seen from many victim advocacy groups. Frankly misinformation like this does more harm than good from a prosecutor's standpoint, because any smart defense counsel will ask the victim if this is what she was taught. If so, they can then argue that she only "cried rape" because her miseducation about the subject caused her to believe she was sexually assaulted, when in reality, she made a decision that she now regrets.
Just being "drunk" has no legal significance for either the victim or the accused. Voluntary intoxication is not a defense to sexual assault. Therefore a court can only view the accused's actions through the eyes of how a reasonable, sober person would act. The law states that a person who is "substantially incapacitated" cannot consent to sex and that the accused knew or should have known about that condition. Basically that means that a victim has to be so drunk that they lose the capacity to consent, i.e., really, really drunk, and the offender knew it.
The choice of whether to charge this case in civilian jurisdictions belongs to the prosecutor and in military jurisdictions it belongs to the commander (who almost always follows the recommendations of his prosecutor). Hopefully the prosecutor takes all of the facts into account before charging someone in this type of case.
TLDR - The system works as well as it reasonably can, but this poster is a misstatement of the law.

I am not inclined to trust the "system" and I'm not inclined to trust prosecutors not to abuse their power.
.

I am not inclined to trust anything you post.

You have yet to actually post a link to any 'fact' to support your claims.

 

[Syriusly]

"Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent to sex"

This is a lie – 'liberals' have 'declared' no such thing.

Actually what we have in this thread is Blackrook declaring what he believes- rather than any facts.

 

[Katzndogz]

Consent is two people of legal age agreeing through words or actions that they want to do something. Some of the extreme progressive woman are insane and just want to hang men with anything they can get their hands on.

Dear Matthew
What I found out is people don't realize that when they have sexual relations this does involve psychology and spiritual connections with
themselves and other people. Not everyone is fully aware of the implications, so not everyone is giving fully informed consent.

I would compare it with people of legal age "consenting" to do drugs like marijuana, when cultural influences are telling them there is no lasting harm.
Later they find out there was, and many ppl report had they known, they would never have started.
Same with abortion.

Too many people think they consent to sex, but regret it afterward and realize they didn't.
I would call this "relationship abuse" that it is doing things within that relationship that hurt one or both people because it is outside their TRUE limits,
conditions or bounds. They may think it was consensual, but realize if they had known the conditions and consequences attached, the true answer is no.

It takes more counseling than a one night interlude to make sure people don't abuse sex or relations.
We just can't regulate or mandate that through govt, people have to figure it out individually
and set up counseling to help prevent abuses in the future.

This lax attitude of sending mixed signals that drugs and sex don't cause any lasting risk or harm
comes across as irresponsible and unethical to teach people that, and let them learn the hard way.
Better to explain there are implications and risks, and quit pretending that you can do anything as long as you consent and it won't cause problems later.

Where did you get the idea that having sex has anything to do with spiritual or emotional connections?

 

[Katzndogz]

Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent for sex.

However, if both the man and woman are drunk, the man has raped the woman.

Google

Feminists and liberals, please explain.

As a side note, when I was a teenager, I was in a hot tub, a girl grabbed me and gave me a full kiss on the lips. I did not encourage her in any way. She was so drunk that she didn't even remember the kiss the next morning, and I didn't tell her.

Question: Did she rape me, or did I rape her?

How hilarious- your 'link' is to a bunch of people's opinions.

Tell me Blackrook- if a person is so drunk that they pass out- and you have sex with the unconscious drunk person- is it consensual?

I was not talking about that, was I?

What's happening is a criminalizing of normal sexual behavior between men and women.

So people so drunk that they cannot remember who they had sex with is just 'normal sexual behavior between men and women'?

Perhaps normal isn't the right word. Common or not unusual are better terms.

 

[emilynghiem]

Consent is two people of legal age agreeing through words or actions that they want to do something. Some of the extreme progressive woman are insane and just want to hang men with anything they can get their hands on.

Dear Matthew
What I found out is people don't realize that when they have sexual relations this does involve psychology and spiritual connections with
themselves and other people. Not everyone is fully aware of the implications, so not everyone is giving fully informed consent.

I would compare it with people of legal age "consenting" to do drugs like marijuana, when cultural influences are telling them there is no lasting harm.
Later they find out there was, and many ppl report had they known, they would never have started.
Same with abortion.

Too many people think they consent to sex, but regret it afterward and realize they didn't.
I would call this "relationship abuse" that it is doing things within that relationship that hurt one or both people because it is outside their TRUE limits,
conditions or bounds. They may think it was consensual, but realize if they had known the conditions and consequences attached, the true answer is no.

It takes more counseling than a one night interlude to make sure people don't abuse sex or relations.
We just can't regulate or mandate that through govt, people have to figure it out individually
and set up counseling to help prevent abuses in the future.

This lax attitude of sending mixed signals that drugs and sex don't cause any lasting risk or harm
comes across as irresponsible and unethical to teach people that, and let them learn the hard way.
Better to explain there are implications and risks, and quit pretending that you can do anything as long as you consent and it won't cause problems later.

Where did you get the idea that having sex has anything to do with spiritual or emotional connections?

Dear Tipsycatlover
1. People are body mind and spirit.
So when two people have an intimate relationship, they are connecting with body mind and spirit.

2. People's psychology and patterns of thought, communication and perception of control
are connected to their past relations especially parents and family.
Two patterns I notice in particular
a. communication patterns tend to reflect relations with mother and family
b. control issues of conscience, perception of equal or unequal power, authority tend to reflect past relations
with father and romantic relations

ie mommy and daddy issues
Collectively people may
project their female issues onto the church as a mother figure for nurturing and helping
and their male issues onto the state as a father figure for protection and authority in charge

3. Tipsycatlover even when I relate to people here, completely verbally,
you can see these "mommy issues" and "daddy issues" come up and get
projected by one person onto others, or their perception of whole groups,
this party or that party, this government or that church. When confronting conflict,
how quickly does the communication regress into "brats and bullies" either whining
and crying like a baby needing affirmation, or trying to smash the opposition to defend turf.

This projection comes from our internal male/female issues.
It comes up in our personal relations, especially romantic and intimate that touch our deepest
internal sense of male/female dynamics, and also project outward onto our political relations collectively.

People are going to communicate their will, and defend it from outside controls that threaten it.
So their power and control issues come up,
and their ability or inability to communicate their terms and boundaries comes up.

This happens with all people in all relations I have seen.
Especially intimate sexual ones that touch on all the levels at once.

 

[baileyn45]

This issue is becoming more pronounced, particularly on campus. A friends son, now a sophomore in college, told me he and his friends are scared to talk to girls when they're sober let alone drinking. Between the PC police and issues such as this he said it's safer to just shut up, keep to yourself, graduate and move on.

 

[Katzndogz]

Consent is two people of legal age agreeing through words or actions that they want to do something. Some of the extreme progressive woman are insane and just want to hang men with anything they can get their hands on.

Dear Matthew
What I found out is people don't realize that when they have sexual relations this does involve psychology and spiritual connections with
themselves and other people. Not everyone is fully aware of the implications, so not everyone is giving fully informed consent.

I would compare it with people of legal age "consenting" to do drugs like marijuana, when cultural influences are telling them there is no lasting harm.
Later they find out there was, and many ppl report had they known, they would never have started.
Same with abortion.

Too many people think they consent to sex, but regret it afterward and realize they didn't.
I would call this "relationship abuse" that it is doing things within that relationship that hurt one or both people because it is outside their TRUE limits,
conditions or bounds. They may think it was consensual, but realize if they had known the conditions and consequences attached, the true answer is no.

It takes more counseling than a one night interlude to make sure people don't abuse sex or relations.
We just can't regulate or mandate that through govt, people have to figure it out individually
and set up counseling to help prevent abuses in the future.

This lax attitude of sending mixed signals that drugs and sex don't cause any lasting risk or harm
comes across as irresponsible and unethical to teach people that, and let them learn the hard way.
Better to explain there are implications and risks, and quit pretending that you can do anything as long as you consent and it won't cause problems later.

Where did you get the idea that having sex has anything to do with spiritual or emotional connections?

Dear Tipsycatlover
1. People are body mind and spirit.
So when two people have an intimate relationship, they are connecting with body mind and spirit.

2. People's psychology and patterns of thought, communication and perception of control
are connected to their past relations especially parents and family.
Two patterns I notice in particular
a. communication patterns tend to reflect relations with mother and family
b. control issues of conscience, perception of equal or unequal power, authority tend to reflect past relations
with father and romantic relations

ie mommy and daddy issues
Collectively people may
project their female issues onto the church as a mother figure for nurturing and helping
and their male issues onto the state as a father figure for protection and authority in charge

3. Tipsycatlover even when I relate to people here, completely verbally,
you can see these "mommy issues" and "daddy issues" come up and get
projected by one person onto others, or their perception of whole groups,
this party or that party, this government or that church. When confronting conflict,
how quickly does the communication regress into "brats and bullies" either whining
and crying like a baby needing affirmation, or trying to smash the opposition to defend turf.

This projection comes from our internal male/female issues.
It comes up in our personal relations, especially romantic and intimate that touch our deepest
internal sense of male/female dynamics, and also project outward onto our political relations collectively.

People are going to communicate their will, and defend it from outside controls that threaten it.
So their power and control issues come up,
and their ability or inability to communicate their terms and boundaries comes up.

This happens with all people in all relations I have seen.
Especially intimate sexual ones that touch on all the levels at once.

Having sex is not a relationship. Where do you get this nonsense? Having sex can be a part of a relationship but it isn't necessary. Sex does not automatically mean intimate relationship. Although there are plenty of people devastated when they have imagined an intimate relationship and their sex partner is just passing the time. Perhaps you are one of those.

 

[emilynghiem]

Consent is two people of legal age agreeing through words or actions that they want to do something. Some of the extreme progressive woman are insane and just want to hang men with anything they can get their hands on.

Dear Matthew so if the women (or men) are "insane"
are they legally competent to give consent?

 

[emilynghiem]

"Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent to sex"

This is a lie – 'liberals' have 'declared' no such thing.

Actually what we have in this thread is Blackrook declaring what he believes- rather than any facts.

Dear Syriusly You did very well to point out the facts or the law literally.
All Blackrook is talking about is beliefs about it personally, That's fine, too!
What we believe is consensual, fair or risky. We can still talk about that,
which is often a higher standard than what the law says counts.

What people truly consent to and believe in, is not going to be exactly what the law says.
For example, the law permits and protects abortion, but other people's standards do not.

Blackrook's BELIEFS about what is fair here are not specified in the law literally.
You are good to confirm that part, but Blackrook IS talking about personal beliefs of right and wrong.

 

[Syriusly]

Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent for sex.

However, if both the man and woman are drunk, the man has raped the woman.

Google

Feminists and liberals, please explain.

As a side note, when I was a teenager, I was in a hot tub, a girl grabbed me and gave me a full kiss on the lips. I did not encourage her in any way. She was so drunk that she didn't even remember the kiss the next morning, and I didn't tell her.

Question: Did she rape me, or did I rape her?

How hilarious- your 'link' is to a bunch of people's opinions.

Tell me Blackrook- if a person is so drunk that they pass out- and you have sex with the unconscious drunk person- is it consensual?

I was not talking about that, was I?

What's happening is a criminalizing of normal sexual behavior between men and women.

So people so drunk that they cannot remember who they had sex with is just 'normal sexual behavior between men and women'?

Perhaps normal isn't the right word. Common or not unusual are better terms.

So is it common - or not unusual- for you to be so drunk that you can't remember who you had sex with?

 

[Syriusly]

This issue is becoming more pronounced, particularly on campus. A friends son, now a sophomore in college, told me he and his friends are scared to talk to girls when they're sober let alone drinking. Between the PC police and issues such as this he said it's safer to just shut up, keep to yourself, graduate and move on.

I was scared to talk to girls at first too. Then I got over it and got laid.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Too drunk to consent = true...

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Liberals need to keep their noses out of people's bedrooms. Sound somewhat familiar?

 

[Flopper]

Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent for sex.

However, if both the man and woman are drunk, the man has raped the woman.

Google

Feminists and liberals, please explain.

As a side note, when I was a teenager, I was in a hot tub, a girl grabbed me and gave me a full kiss on the lips. I did not encourage her in any way. She was so drunk that she didn't even remember the kiss the next morning, and I didn't tell her.

Question: Did she rape me, or did I rape her?

It depends on how drunk the women is. Obviously if she is passed out, she can't give consent.

 

[Syriusly]

Liberals need to keep their noses out of people's bedrooms. Sound somewhat familiar?

Conservatives need to stop raping women. Sound somewhat familiar?

 

[Syriusly]

Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent for sex.

However, if both the man and woman are drunk, the man has raped the woman.

Google

Feminists and liberals, please explain.

As a side note, when I was a teenager, I was in a hot tub, a girl grabbed me and gave me a full kiss on the lips. I did not encourage her in any way. She was so drunk that she didn't even remember the kiss the next morning, and I didn't tell her.

Question: Did she rape me, or did I rape her?

It depends on how drunk the women is. Obviously if she is passed out, she can't give consent.

Well that is more nuance than this thread demands.

Can people who are 'drunk' give consent? Maybe- because 'drunk' is a rather broad term- ranging from passed out- to stumbling blind drunk to tipsy but too drunk to drive.

Remember though- this thread is just Blackrook's declaration of outrage- unsupported by any facts.

 

[bodecea]

Liberals have declared that people who are drunk can't give consent for sex.

However, if both the man and woman are drunk, the man has raped the woman.

Google

Feminists and liberals, please explain.

As a side note, when I was a teenager, I was in a hot tub, a girl grabbed me and gave me a full kiss on the lips. I did not encourage her in any way. She was so drunk that she didn't even remember the kiss the next morning, and I didn't tell her.

Question: Did she rape me, or did I rape her?

If someone is drunk can they be held to a contract they sign? Or a confession they give to police?