LilOlLady's Everlasting Gobstopper Illegal Immigration Thread

[johnrocks]

What's next after this, allowing the IRS the power to audit business records to make sure no illegals were hired, the power to spy on employers?

It seems like the "solution" supported by most for every social ill is more regulations,more prisons,more fines and ultimately more government.

 

[Charles_Main]

Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government. You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"

I guess you simply can not grasp that protecting our border and dealing with Illegal Immigration is one of the FEW jobs of our federal government. Supporting them enforcing these laws is entirely consistent with being a constitutionalists.

This is you:

Area Man Passionate Defender Of What He Imagines Constitution To Be

Not even going to look at your stupid link. Are you claiming that protecting our borders is not one of the fundamental responsibilities of the Federal government?

I mean what where you implying if not that if I am for strict enforcement of our Immigration laws, and going after companies who hire them is somehow not consistent with the constitution.

One can be for limited government and still want them to do the jobs that are theirs according to the constitution.

 

[Avorysuds]

Hey, what ever happened to "Too much big government. You should "deregulate" and let the market sort it out?"

And of course here is the issue, you don't even know what the Governments job is per the constitution, that is why you are ok with growing Government in any direction as you seem to be un aware of its limits of powers as well.

Just to clarify… Do you think Government needs to grow and by how much to “crack down on employers?”
Do you feel that Government would be the same size if 12-18 million illegal’s removed themselves from our society… Education, HC policing and so on would see no less demand?

 

[blu]

Most hiring of illegals is not done by cooperation's my friend. The vast majority of Illegals are employed by smaller businesses.

there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company

The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.

what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know

 

[Madeline]

Virtually all crimes a person can commit require intent. Mebbe "willful blindness" or "gross negligence" could suffice, but if the CEO took reasonable steps to assure all hires were legal and one got by him, then no, I don't think the CEO should be punished.

 

[Charles_Main]

there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company

The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.

what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know

Of course not, they would need to be proven to have had knowledge of it. We are still of nation of Laws after all

 

[blu]

The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.

what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know

Of course not, they would need to be proven to have had knowledge of it. We are still of nation of Laws after all

exactly which is what worries me about sending pope to jail since its so hard to prove who knew of the illegal hiring. people at the top could easily shield themselves while mangers and HR staff would be busted quick. its like the mafia w/o rico laws.

I would much prefer heavy finanical fines

 

[Againsheila]

there is still hiring by large corporations, but you still didn't answer the question of who would get arrested in the company

The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.

what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know

Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?" If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.

 

[blu]

The person who hired the illegal, and that person's boss, and that person's boss, all the way up to the CEO of the company and he also does jailtime.

what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know

Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?" If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.

you are either joking or don't know how companies of that size are run

 

[Charles_Main]

what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know

Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?" If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.

you are either joking or don't know how companies of that size are run

It is pretty simple man. Even in the largest cooperation. Everyone has a direct boss, and someone who Hired them. They may or may not be the same person. That person for persons for sure should face some jail time. If they knowingly hired them.

The problem is some illegals have fake ID, and stolen or fake SS numbers. You are going to find the odd one here and there they honestly did not know they hired an illegal.

Take it on a case by case basis. Just like the rest of our court system works. Charge those you can, Don't charge the ones you can't, and yes fine the companies.

 

[chanel]

Agreed Charles. There are many businesses in our area that hire immigrants, and my gut tells me they all have "papers". I was talking to someone who was doing payroll temporarily for a construction company and she said she was surprised by the number of dependents many of these folks have. She speculated that many of them may be illegals, and by exaggerating the number of children they have, they can avoid paying taxes. That might be a red flag for employers, however it's certainly not their job to investigate the family and count the children. Sounds like a job for those extra 15,000 IRS agents the prez will hire.

Did anyone see this story? These people should go away for life.

A South Florida couple is on trial this week for using a temp agency as a front to enslave at least 39 Filipino workers in the service industry. And most of these workers were not slinging hash at backwater diners and rest stops. They were waiting on the rich and famous who frequent the country clubs of Boca Raton and Miami.

Sophia Manuel and Alfonso Baldonado Jr. ran a temporary staffing agency that promised foreign workers the chance to come work in the U.S. For a fee, Manuel and Baldonado would supposedly provide housing, job placement, and transportation for the workers. But for at least 39 men and women who traveled to the U.S. from the Philippines for jobs, all Manuel and Baldonado provided was slavery.

Anywhere between 20 and 40 workers shared the cramped, 3-bedroom house, meaning most of them slept on the floor and in the garage. Their meals consisted of chicken innards and rotten vegetables. The workers were frequently woken in the middle of the night and quizzed on service industry knowledge, like drink recipes. During the course of their captivity, one worker broke his wrist and another began coughing up blood. Neither was allowed to see a doctor. And anyone who complained was threatened with deportation.

But perhaps the most stunning aspect of this case is where the victim were being forced to work -- in upscale country clubs around Boca Raton and Miami. In fact, the Boca Wood Country Club Association is named in a lawsuit on this same case, claiming that they knew the staff being provided to them were slaves.

39 Enslaved Workers Found In South Florida Country Clubs | End Human Trafficking | Change.org

Now should the country club be to blame? How could they know?

 

[Bullfighter]

IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work

What did the French do to people who collaborated with the Nazis during WW2?

 

[LilOlLady]

VERY SIMPLE. EMFORCE THE LAW.


The following is an overview of federal law on hiring and harboring illegal aliens. It is not a substitute for professional legal counsel in specific situations.

Summary
A person (including a group of persons, business, organization or local government) commits a federal felony when he:

assists an alien whom he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him to obtain employment,
encourages that alien to remain in the U.S., by referring him to an employer, by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or
knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions.
Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime.

Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.

Recruitment and Employment of Illegal AliensIt is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an alien for a fee, knowing the alien is unauthorized to work in the United States.
1 It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an alien knowing that the alien is unauthorized to work.
2 Employers may give preference in recruitment and hiring to a U.S. citizen over an alien with work authorization only where the U.S. citizen is equally or better qualified.
3 It is unlawful to hire an individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements.4 Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with 3 days advance notice, they must be made available for inspection.

Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home.
5 Day laborers or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law.
6 An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the alien labor.
7 The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements.
8 If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire
9 An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts.
10 Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer, that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer’s work force.
11 Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual’s accent or foreign appearance. Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien workforce of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.
12 It is illegal for non-profit and religious organizations to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, regardless of claims that their convictions require them to assist aliens.
13 Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment.
14 It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to 5years.
FAIR: The Law Against Hiring or Harboring Illegal Aliens

 

[The Infidel]

As much as gov't officials like to levy fines and taxes.

How about they actually start fining businesses that hire illegals and pay off the national debt?

 

[Againsheila]

what is some lowly guy in GE hired an illegal. should the CEO that is a thousand ladders up the chain really be punished? it would a very small chance that the ceo would know

Have you ever heard the term "the buck stops here?" If the CEO didn't know, he should have and he should go to jail for not doing his job.

you are either joking or don't know how companies of that size are run

I am not joking and I don't care the size of the companies. If an illegal is hired knowingly, then the person who hired him is responsible as are everyone above him in the company all the way up to and including the CEO. I don't buy the idea that the CEO is blind to everything, if he is, he sure as hell shouldn't be CEO of anything. You make that CEO responsible, enforce the law and no one will be hiring illegals, not knowingly.

 

[Againsheila]

As much as gov't officials like to levy fines and taxes.

How about they actually start fining businesses that hire illegals and pay off the national debt?

They do, and businesses like Tyson Foods has discovered it's cheaper to pay the fines than to obey the laws.

 

[Againsheila]

Agreed Charles. There are many businesses in our area that hire immigrants, and my gut tells me they all have "papers". I was talking to someone who was doing payroll temporarily for a construction company and she said she was surprised by the number of dependents many of these folks have. She speculated that many of them may be illegals, and by exaggerating the number of children they have, they can avoid paying taxes. That might be a red flag for employers, however it's certainly not their job to investigate the family and count the children. Sounds like a job for those extra 15,000 IRS agents the prez will hire.

Did anyone see this story? These people should go away for life.

A South Florida couple is on trial this week for using a temp agency as a front to enslave at least 39 Filipino workers in the service industry. And most of these workers were not slinging hash at backwater diners and rest stops. They were waiting on the rich and famous who frequent the country clubs of Boca Raton and Miami.

Sophia Manuel and Alfonso Baldonado Jr. ran a temporary staffing agency that promised foreign workers the chance to come work in the U.S. For a fee, Manuel and Baldonado would supposedly provide housing, job placement, and transportation for the workers. But for at least 39 men and women who traveled to the U.S. from the Philippines for jobs, all Manuel and Baldonado provided was slavery.

Anywhere between 20 and 40 workers shared the cramped, 3-bedroom house, meaning most of them slept on the floor and in the garage. Their meals consisted of chicken innards and rotten vegetables. The workers were frequently woken in the middle of the night and quizzed on service industry knowledge, like drink recipes. During the course of their captivity, one worker broke his wrist and another began coughing up blood. Neither was allowed to see a doctor. And anyone who complained was threatened with deportation.

But perhaps the most stunning aspect of this case is where the victim were being forced to work -- in upscale country clubs around Boca Raton and Miami. In fact, the Boca Wood Country Club Association is named in a lawsuit on this same case, claiming that they knew the staff being provided to them were slaves.

39 Enslaved Workers Found In South Florida Country Clubs | End Human Trafficking | Change.org

Now should the country club be to blame? How could they know?

They hired a temp agency instead of hiring their own staff, of course they knew.

 

[Wolfmoon]

I'm no immigrant and I say, everyone is welcome here as, long as, they have an invitation and the proper documentation and correct and LEGAL immigration papers.

Everyone else, gets deported ASAP! Some of you, stop with your defeatist attitudes and stop your whining and get the job done! The job is vote out all politicians and never let any politician have more than one term in office. Vote out all Latino elected officials. Let's Roll!

 

[Wolfmoon]

IMO it should be 50k an employee, it would stop employers from doing it and it would make the illegals go back home b/c they would have no where to work

Confiscate their ill-gotten gains and seize all their personal property for damages and court cost then fine them and jail them. Take their children away and put them foster homes.

 

[LilOlLady]

DREAM ACT; NIGHTMARE FOR AMERICANS



We teach them English, educate them and if they go into our military we are responsible for them for life and they can petition the legalization of their families. If this is not backdoor amnesty, I don’t know what is and does nothing for enforcement. That still leaves millions that do not want to go to school and do not want to join our military and do not want to become American citizens, what do you plan to do with them?



Those young men and women who are getting an education should go back home and help their country and their people. Mexico needs their education and need them to join the military and help fight the drug cartels, human and drug smuggling and make a better Mexico for all Mexicans.



Dream Act holds me responsible for children of illegal aliens. Hold the parents responsible. They chose to bring them here and their anchor babies are not anchors.

While border patrol agents are putting their lives on the line day and night chasing illegal aliens, human and drug smuggler and other criminals, trying to stop the flow of guns bought legally in Phoenix and sold illegally sold to drug cartels and drug money from going into Mexico, our government is doing everything to stop them by sending the “come” message to illegal aliens and encouraging more illegal immigration with the Dream Act and promise of amnesty. And they are telling Arizona, Sheriff Arpiao and ICE to “leave them alone” and ICE is letting them go back onto the streets as fast as Sheriff Arpiao can arrest and turn them over to ICE.



Hold illegal aliens responsible for all their children and not me. I got enough of my own.If they are allowed to go into our military and they actually go, they are the responsibility of the American taxpayers for life. That means military retirement, medical care, etc.





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PS. The parents on the bus when the man went balistic because his disabled child were being bullied and harrassed could not speak English. Why were they on the bus and why are they even here.