LilOlLady's Everlasting Gobstopper Illegal Immigration Thread

[Speeddemon22]

There was no "drug war" in Mexico in the 70's and 80's when Mexicans were jumping the fence by the millions forcing Reagan/Congress to approve a blanket legalization for them (hell, there wasn't even Nafta back then).

I commend in the strongest terms Madeline and speeddemon's deep sense of compassion towards poor mexicans. They are giants of moral integrity who are light years ahead of the moral depravation of the typical super patriotic american clown ("I only care for America and the rest of the world can starve to death.")

But at the same time I have to be honest enough with myself and recognise that trying to raise the living standards in Mexico as a way to solve the immigration issue is unrealistic, unfeasible, quixotesque, pie in the sky, starry-eyed idealism, etc, etc...

America won't achieve in Mexico what it is already failing miserably to achieve in Iraq and Afghanistan (turn both nations into first world countries where people would not feel tempted to live in the US).

This proposal is indeed a code word for doing nothing about illegal immigration and as Tank said, allow Mexican poverty to cross the border. It is part of the problem not of the solution

I know what you're saying Jose, and you're right. But Mexico's government is collapsing before our very eyes right now. These cartels have the government by the balls and everyone knows it. And if Mexico ever calls for help because it's gotten "past the point of no return" with the cartel violence, who do you think's going to go in there and do something? It sure as Hell won't be Guatemala, Honduras, or El Salvedor. No...WE are their only neighbor capable of helping them fight this vast, bloody war and if worse ever came to worst, we'd come to Mexico's rescue because we cannot afford to let their country collapse.

PS--I knew you had a good argument in you, Jose! LOL

 

[José]

Originally posted by speeddemon
I know what you're saying Jose, and you're right. But Mexico's government is collapsing before our very eyes right now. These cartels have the government by the balls and everyone knows it. And if Mexico ever calls for help because it's gotten "past the point of no return" with the cartel violence, who do you think's going to go in there and do something? It sure as Hell won't be Guatemala, Honduras, or El Salvedor. No...WE are their only neighbor capable of helping them fight this vast, bloody war and if worse ever came to worst, we'd come to Mexico's rescue because we cannot afford to let their country collapse.

PS--I knew you had a good argument in you, Jose! LOL

I hear ya, demon. Mexico's collapse would be a calamity for America. Illegal immigration would undoubtedly increase a thousand fold (I personally don't see the Mexican state collapsing but this is the subject for another thread).

But make no mistake, Mexicans will continue to jump the fence by the millions with or without drug war, with or without NAFTA, with or without massive american economic aid. Economic aid to Mexico with the sole aim of preventing illegal immigration is a waste of American taxpayer's money.

So the USA would be wise to separate both issues (the issue of securing its borders/deportations AND the issue of economic/military aid to Mexico).

Now we return to what I said to Madeline in a previous post:

The political will to combat illegal immigration among american politicians and the necessary climate of social acceptance of mass deportations in the american society is simply not there SO THINGS WILL REMAIN THE SAME AND ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WILL BE DONE.

 

[Madeline]

You might could be right, Jose'. But it's certain that nothing will be done if no one demands it.

You seem young to me, Jose'. It's too soon to be so fatalistic, I would think.

 

[José]

Originally posted by Madeline
But it's certain that nothing will be done if no one demands it.

Now you're really preaching to the choir, Madeline : )

I have been saying for decades that the level of pressure put on american politicians by the HUGE part of the american people who oppose illegal immigration is too weak, insignificant to make them act.

There are so much pro illegal immigration economic interests in corporate America, political interests in W. DC and general apathy among part of the american population that only a drastic, extreme, overwhelming amount of public pressure will bring any significant change.

Maybe you have already seen one of my posts urging the american people to take to the streets and protest but in case you haven't here's a repost:

 

[José]

Originally posted by HereWeGoAgain
And what drastic measures would you suggest?

So what is your solution?

OCT - 15 - 1969​

​

THE VIETNAM WAR MORATORIUM

MILLIONS OF AMERICANS TAKE TO THE STREETS TO PROTEST AGAINST THE VIETNAM WAR​

NOV - 20 - 1969

..................

 

[José]

What do I hear when I urge the american people to take drastic measures to fight illegal immigration like monster protests and giant street battles that helped end the american military involvement in Vietnam?

An endless parade of inane excuses from lazy, spineless people who don't want to do anything beside whining about illegal immigration on the Internet:

"I'm two busy raising my kids to participate in protests."

"The Vietnam War (an issue that in no way posed an existential threat to America) was much more importants than the issue of illegal immigration (an issue that definitely does)".

etc, etc, etc,...

I know it's cruel to say this but when I see such a huge apathy and innaction I almost think the american people deserve to see their country split in half by Aztlan or become a third world nation.

But "almost" is the key word. I'm not THAT mean. : )

 

[José]

And one more thing, Madeline.

As I said in my first post the necessary social climate in America to make your wish come true, to deport millions of illegal immigrants does not presently exist.

But social climates can't be changed!!!!

Let's take my Vietnam analogy as an example:

In 1965 the social climate to end the Vietnam War did not exist but thanks to millions of american civilians who participated in mega protests, fought huge street battles and even died in protests and campuses that social climate was created in 69, 70, 71.

The same thing can happen in 21th century America regarding mass deportations...

But the american people must be willing to pay the price for this to happen:

Weekends spent away from family participating in protests and even in jails, broken ribs, broken teeth and perhaps even some deaths, unfortunately.

As Americans themselves like to say:

NO PAIN, NO GAIN.

 

[FifthColumn]

And one more thing, Madeline.

As I said in my first post the necessary social climate in America to make your wish come true, to deport millions of illegal immigrants does not presently exist.

But social climates can't be changed!!!!

Let's take my Vietnam analogy as an example:

In 1965 the social climate to end the Vietnam War did not exist but thanks to millions of american civilians who participated in mega protests, fought huge street battles and even died in protests and campuses that social climate was created in 69, 70, 71.

The same thing can happen in 21th century America regarding mass deportations...

But the american people must be willing to pay the price for this to happen:

Weekends spent away from family participating in protests and even in jails, broken ribs, broken teeth and perhaps even some deaths, unfortunately.

As Americans themselves like to say:

NO PAIN, NO GAIN.

It would be easier to kick LA RAZA in the ass to stir up the Latino hornet's nest. Once American politicians see Latinos rioting in the streets, the demand to throw them out of the US will be easier because this can be shown to the rest of the world.

They are an invading army and a threat to the safety of the world's future when the possibility that they could get their hands on America's nuclear arsenal is revealed.

 

[José]

Kick La Raza in the ass means violence against Latinos but this would put you in the company of Bin Laden.

 

[José]

I'm fully aware my message is not popular with the members of the US Message Board.

They like to read messages that point the finger of blame at others:

The US government (correctly)

The Mexican government (gross injustice)

The illegal immigrants themselves (open for debate)

etc, etc, etc...

Then all of a sudden this son of a road whore named José appears out of the blue, pointing the finger of blame to them?

"What?!?!? Am I responsible for the immigration problem in America?!?!"

Not exactly. You're responsible for not applying the necessary pressure on the US government to make it enforce the law.

 

[Harry Dresden]

The only two groups that insist on being called other then Americans, are blacks and Mexicans.

Calling them just Americans could provoke a fight.

bullshit.....the Mexicans i work with who were born here dont think so.....calling them Mexicans gets them riled up more....because it implies you are saying they are part of the "ILLEGAL" crowd.....and many of them dont think to highly of their southern cousins....

 

[José]

Dresden...

I wonder how many of your coworkers are themselves the children and grandchildren of at least one hispanic who entered the US illegally or overstayed his/her visa.

Can they all trace their ancestry back to the 19th century Californios?

Would they even be Americans if it weren't for their fence jumper ancestors?

 

[FifthColumn]

Kick La Raza in the ass means violence against Latinos but this would put you in the company of Bin Laden.

Where did you get that idea? LA RAZA is a terrorist group started by Latinos to be a "go-between" when dealing with the US government. That's where the funds get sent when you want to keep them quiet. Follow the money and you'll see I'm right.

 

[FifthColumn]

I'm fully aware my message is not popular with the members of the US Message Board.

They like to read messages that point the finger of blame at others:

The US government (correctly)

The Mexican government (gross injustice)

The illegal immigrants themselves (open for debate)

etc, etc, etc...

Then all of a sudden this son of a road whore named José appears out of the blue, pointing the finger of blame to them?

"What?!?!? Am I responsible for the immigration problem in America?!?!"

Not exactly. You're responsible for not applying the necessary pressure on the US government to make it enforce the law.

Why not just bill Latin America for all the services that had been provided to the illegals? When they see they're going to have to pay 10 times the amount it cost to have their people in the US instead of their own plague invested ghettos, they will welcome them back.

 

[Jackson]

No welfare for anchor babies. No NO No

 

[Jackson]

Right Senator. You can go back to sleep, now.

 

[chikenwing]

The guy is beyond laughing.

 

[strollingbones]

anchor baby = us citizen with foreign parents

 

[Harry Dresden]

Dresden...

I wonder how many of your coworkers are themselves the children and grandchildren of at least one hispanic who entered the US illegally or overstayed his/her visa.

Can they all trace their ancestry back to the 19th century Californios?

Would they even be Americans if it weren't for their fence jumper ancestors?

I wonder how many of your coworkers are themselves the children and grandchildren of at least one hispanic who entered the US illegally or overstayed his/her visa.


you can probably say that about a hell of a lot of Americans Jose.......but thats besides the point.....back in the early 1900's the small amount who came over were hardly noticed......look at the amount today.....now they are having an impact on our society.....and that is the point.....if things were reversed and Mexico was like the US and we like them and we were going down there and overwhelming some of their Services.....IM SURE THEY WOULD NOT BE TO HAPPY with those fucking Gringos.....now tell me im wrong about my last statement....

 

[José]

Originally posted by Harry Dresden
you can probably say that about a hell of a lot of Americans Jose.......but thats besides the point.....back in the early 1900's the small amount who came over were hardly noticed......look at the amount today.....now they are having an impact on our society.....and that is the point.....if things were reversed and Mexico was like the US and we like them and we were going down there and overwhelming some of their Services.....IM SURE THEY WOULD NOT BE TO HAPPY with those fucking Gringos.....now tell me im wrong about my last statement....

I agree with everything you said, Harry but now I'm gonna ask you an apparently off-topic question that will surprise you.

Have you ever heard of Cesar Millan aka The Dog Whisperer, the most famous dog trainer in the world? Millan crossed the Mexican-US border illegally when he was 21. If someone asked him about his views on illegal immigration he'd probably say something like this (if he decided to be really honest):

"I was in favor of illegal immigration right up until the moment I crossed the border. The moment I was safe and sound in America the US government could have closed it for good for all I care."

And this kind of personal opinion is shared by thousands of legal hispanic-americans, Harry, perhaps even some of your coworkers. They all oppose illegal immigration FOR OTHER HISPANICS, but not for them or their parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, etc... If they were under any threat of losing their legal status you'd see them changing their opinon overnight.

And I don't really blame them for having this selfish, opportunist outlook. It's human nature to think that way, to be indulgent with oneself and one's family and incredibly harsh on others. That's why I don't give much credit to "'THE MAJORITY OF CHICANOS OPPOSE ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION" argument. It says much more about human nature than about firmly held opinions.

But make no mistake, you'll have a hard time finding a Latino more suportive immigration laws than me. I just happen to despise this particular argument.

Just think about it, a guy who posts message after message, photo after photo of the Vietnam mass protests exorting the american people to follow the example of their parents and grandparents cannot exactly be considered pro illegal immigration, don't you agree?