LilOlLady's Everlasting Gobstopper Illegal Immigration Thread

[High_Gravity]

Speeddemon writes me an angry message asking me if I don't understand that a prosperous Mexico would be good for both countries. It never ceases to amaze me just how badly you can be misunderstood on the Net no matter how clearly you try to get your message across. Of course a wealthy Mexico would be a gift to both Mexico and America, demon. The only problem is how to get there.

I'm sick and tired of USMB members regurgitating the same line over and over:

Mexico should do

a)

b)

c)

to become a rich country (and help solve the US problem with illegals).

Well, America ruled Puerto Rico and Cuba as overseas colonies for 50 years. The two countries had MUCH LESS AUTONOMY THAN ANY US STATE.

America had half a century to do

a)

b)

c)

to turn Puerto Rico and cuba into first world nations and failed miserably.

Today more Puerto Ricans live in America than in Puerto Rico itself and the country is not in worse shape only because it is still a US colony in many ways.

The members of this Board talk about economic growth as if it were as simple as a cake recipe!!!! If it is that simple why America failed in PR, Cuba and now in Iraq and Afghanistan?

So stop demanding from Mexico the very same thing America failed to deliver in so many parts of the world!!

America controls Cuba? What underground bunker do you live in? Ever hear of Castro?

And Puerto Ricans can't even decided if they want Puerto Rico to be independant. They are so used to sucking on the tit of the Statue of Liberty!

Puerto Rico is overcrowded right and getting a job there is tough, if the US let them go they would be Mexico on an island.

 

[José]

Originally posted by High_Gravity
Puerto Rico is overcrowded right and getting a job there is tough, if the US let them go they would be Mexico on an island.

True. And even being associated with the US, PR is still a poor country. Check out these numbers:

Median household income

Mississippi (the poorest state of the Union): $36,338

Puerto Rico:------------------------------- $17,741

The heart of the matter is that people here desperately want to find a way to blame Mexico for the illegal problem in America and a subtle way to do it is to blame Mexico's underdevelopment entirely on its political class.

So you have to put up with these moronic statements:

Mexico could easily become a developed nation. All the mexican people have to do is get rid of their politicians, shout ABRACADABRA and wish upon a star.

All is fair when it comes to blaming Mexico for the dereliction of US immigration service.

 

[High_Gravity]

Originally posted by High_Gravity
Puerto Rico is overcrowded right and getting a job there is tough, if the US let them go they would be Mexico on an island.

True. And even being associated with the US, PR is still a poor country. Check out these numbers:

Median household income

Mississippi (the poorest state of the Union): $36,338

Puerto Rico:------------------------------- $17,741

The heart of the matter is that people here desperately want to find a way to blame Mexico for the illegal problem in America and a subtle way to do it is to blame Mexico's underdevelopment entirely on its political class.

So you have to put up with these moronic statements:

Mexico could easily become a developed nation. All the mexican people have to do is get rid of their politicians, shout ABRACADABRA and wish upon a star.

All is fair when it comes to blaming Mexico for the dereliction of US immigration service.

A friend of mine in the Military was Puerto Rican and he told me how it was there, going to Puerto Rico for vacations is alot of fun but actually living there is another matter, he told me alot of people join the Military so they can leave there because there are so few good jobs available. I don't see how the Puerto Ricans who want independence think they can live on their own without the help of the US.

 

[FifthColumn]

Originally posted by FifthColumn
So Mexico IS responsible for its own people and to keep those people inside its own border. Countries in the eastern hemisphere have no problem taking back their own people when they try to sneak into other countries, what's with Mexico and the rest of Latin America?

Absolutely wrong...

Mexican citizens who hug or climb the border fence are not doing anything wrong and cannot be harassed by Mexican authorities. They only commit a misdemeanor when they jump to the american side and by then they are not under Mexico's jurisdiction anymore unless you want the federales to invade american soil to arrest Mexicans.

From that moment on they become America's problem. The same goes for american illegal weapons smuggled into Mexico.

Utter nonsense!

Why is Mexico giving out handbooks on how to sneak into the US and how to behave if caught. Seems to me that is what you give spies when you tell them to go behind enemy lines.

 

[LilOlLady]

I've never met any Mexican Muslims.

I personally know several Mexican muslims.

Mexican and Central American people accepting Islam is growing quite rapidly.

There are 4 fairly new all Spanish speaking Mosques right along the U.S./Mexican border.

They are located in the Texas towns of Edinburg, McAllen, Weslaco, and Brownsville.

Mexican people easily convert to Islam because they like the conservative and family oriented values inherent in the religion.

Well there are Muslims from every country in the world, still the majority of them are Catholics. I don't think radical Islam is converting Mexicans en masse like the poster is saying though.

I don't think the article said that at all. It said Mexican are adopting radical Muslim tactics. But there are Mexicans converting to Islam.

 

[LilOlLady]

 

[Willworkforcrak]

So you guys want to deport American citizens to Mexico?

Hell I wouldn't mind being deported to Mexico, and I ain't even Mexican but shit the weather is better down there then up in this ice box so why not?

 

[gekaap]

Yeah split up families and orphan children

You know, it really bugs me when people say stuff like this, and when they wax on about "but they've sacrificed so much to be here, they risked their lives, blah blah blah." If you have a problem with families being broken up because illegal aliens get deported then BLAME THE IRRESPONSIBLE PARENTS FOR PUTTING THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IN THAT SITUATION!

And the talk about "how hard" it is to immigrate legally is a bunch of HOGWASH. Illegal immigrants undertake dangerous activities in their attempts to get into this country, they pay out more money to smugglers and in bribes to officials, and fake documents than it would have cost to immigrate legally, and after all of that they have to go to great lengths to avoid being discovered. Legal immigration is easier than illegal immigration. The underlying force behind illegal immigration is IRRESPONSIBILITY and an ENTITLEMENT COMPLEX that makes them think that they have a birth right to come in and take what they want.

 

[gekaap]

1 - Mexico cannot prevent its citizens from leaving the country freely because this goes against all the fundamental principles of democratic states. This is what totalitarian countries like North Korea do.

First of all, it's not a matter of Mexico preventing its people from leaving that country. Mexico actively lobbies the US to minimize immigration enforcement or to try to persuade us to not go forward with legislative efforts to increase the power of law over illegal immigration. Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate, and emboldens their citizens to believe they have a right to come to the US, like when their President says stupid shit like how Mexico supposedly spills over into the US because illegals are here, and that the Mexican government thus has an obligation to protect the illegals from US "oppression." Of course, all the meanwhile, Mexico maintains strict laws about illegal immigration into its own country, such that any American illegally present could be legally shot dead on sight.

Second, Mexico's heavy flood of illegal aliens does create a responsibility to make attempts to curb the flow, if nothing else at least through means of their own border security making attempts to identify people who are caught attempting to cross the border illegally. Mexico also OUGHT to be running much less interference in US plans and attempts to curb the problem. Mexico has no place objecting to any US border barrier, it has no place telling the US to stop raiding work places that employ illegals, it has not place threatening to cut off economic ties whenever we attempt to step up our enforcement of immigration laws, etc. But that's exactly what happens.

2 - Mexico cannot be blamed for being an underdeveloped, third world country. If America wants to blame Mexico for its poverty it should first turn that dirty poor country of Afghanistan into a developed nation since the country is currently under US control.

Yes it can. The Mexicans are the ones who have built for themselves such a long history of social injustice and prejudice and racism within their own country as to give rise to the current miserable state of Mexican economics. They are the ones that continue to elect cartel backed politicians. They are the ones who choose to remain apathetic to the widespread corruption within the Mexican government. And that's the number one reason why the US needs to curb the flow of illegal immigration. Because the cultural pollution of Mexico's trash is a hindrance to American prosperity.

AMERICA HAS ABSOLUTELY NO AUTHORITY TO DEMAND PROSPERITY FROM MEXICO IF SHE CANNOT BRING THAT SAME PROSPERITY TO ITS OWN "COLONIES".

The US doesn't have any colonies. And the US does not leech off of other governments by encouraging our citizens to illegally immigrate to other countries and to work under the table while also collecting welfare benefits, so that the cash can then be sent back to our economy. I don't demand that Mexico be prosperous. But I do demand that Mexico stop prospering from American taxes, while eating up American jobs and driving down the wages for jobs that America workers hold. And, I demand that Mexicans stop coming into my country and demanding that I should know how to speak their language when they have no interest in trying to learn our language.

3 - According to the international protocol that informally rules border relations between neighboring countries, in the absence of a broad comphehensive border agreement, each country is resposible for its own side of the border.

And yet you hypocritically just said that Mexico cannot be held accountable for what its citizens do on their side of the border when illegals try to come into the US.

 

[mdn2000]

Mexico, the failed nation, Vicente Fox, ex-presidente of Mexico stated he reduced poverty by 50%, funny, it was done by illegal immigration.i
Mexicans are extremely racist people, at least the ones who claim to be of pure Spanish blood, the elites, the poor indians and mixed people suffer. Great people, real sad.

To the point, jobs Americans will not do. I have picked strawberries, blueberries, string beans, apples, and worms. I have worked side by side, with a shovel, landscaping in Southern California with illegal aliens. Hard workers who are typically very good people, a few are pretty confused politically but for the most part they seem okay.

The damn media war that is constantly trying to stir up racism is taking its toll, I think its turning some of the younger Mexicans hateful or fearful of us.

Pretty big shame.

 

[Flopper]

Mexico, the failed nation, Vicente Fox, ex-presidente of Mexico stated he reduced poverty by 50%, funny, it was done by illegal immigration.i
Mexicans are extremely racist people, at least the ones who claim to be of pure Spanish blood, the elites, the poor indians and mixed people suffer. Great people, real sad.

To the point, jobs Americans will not do. I have picked strawberries, blueberries, string beans, apples, and worms. I have worked side by side, with a shovel, landscaping in Southern California with illegal aliens. Hard workers who are typically very good people, a few are pretty confused politically but for the most part they seem okay.

The damn media war that is constantly trying to stir up racism is taking its toll, I think its turning some of the younger Mexicans hateful or fearful of us.

Pretty big shame.

Our condo is undergoing some major renovation. I would say at least 75 percent of the carpenters, foremen, and manual labor is Mexican. These guys work damn hard. There're on scaffolding in freezing weather nailing up waterproofing, pushing wheelbarrows through the mud and ice when the wind chill is about 10 degrees. I suspect that most of these people are illegal or at least would have a problem proving their legal. I really don't believe this country would be better off without them.

I drove home this morning, I passed about 25 Mexicans or at least they appeared to be Mexicans, standing in front of Home Depot ready to do just about any kind of work. A few blocks down the street at the Interstate entrance, I counted four Anglos carrying signs begging for money or food with no mention of work. This is not an isolated incident. I see it daily.

 

[José]

Originally posted by gekaap
First of all, it's not a matter of Mexico preventing its people from leaving that country. Mexico actively lobbies the US to minimize immigration enforcement or to try to persuade us to not go forward with legislative efforts to increase the power of law over illegal immigration. Mexico also encourages their people to illegally immigrate, and emboldens their citizens to believe they have a right to come to the US, like when their President says stupid shit like how Mexico supposedly spills over into the US because illegals are here, and that the Mexican government thus has an obligation to protect the illegals from US "oppression." Of course, all the meanwhile, Mexico maintains strict laws about illegal immigration into its own country, such that any American illegally present could be legally shot dead on sight.

The president of Mexico said this...

The president of Mexico said that...

Mexico lobbies the US...

Mexico files a lawsuit against Arizona...

Mexico files an official complaint...

Mexico this... Mexico that...

BLAH, BLAH, BLAH...

HA, HA, HA... As if the USA didn't put any political and economic pressure on JUST ABOUT EVERY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD INCLUDING MEXICO to force them to accomodate their interests.

Mexico's political/economic pressure is pathetically weak since it is a third world country and any REAL ECONOMIC PRESSURE beyond rethoric would be met with immediate US retaliation that would hurt Mexico much more than the US. The real culprit for the illegal problems are IN AMERICA (political class, corporations, part of the american population who does not give a damn, etc, etc...) NOT IN MEXICO. The country can't force the US to do shit.

But anyway, stop the cheap talk and show me hard evidence that Mexico finance illegals in any way...

Show me proof that Mexico pays their trip to the border... pays the coyote...

Show me proof that Mexico promotes illegal immigration into the US (radio, TV ads).

You can't do any of these things, gekaap... the only thing you can show is A MAP OF THE DESERT Mexico prints due to the fact that hundreds of its citizens die in the desert every year.

You have nothing to accuse Mexico but a HARMLESS PIECE OF PAPER.

You cannot present any hard evidence that Mexico finance illegals BECAUSE YOU ARE A PHONY, GEKAAP!!!

BECAUSE YOU ARE A FRAUD!!!

YOU CAN'T THINK PROPERLY CUZ YOUR MIND IS CLOUDED BY PATRIOTISM!!

THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE, LIAR!!!!

PRESENT HARD EVIDENCE IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE BOARD OF MONEY BEING GIVEN TO ILLEGALS BY MEXICAN OFFICIALS OR ADS PAID BY THE GOVERNMENT OF MEXICO ENCOURAGING ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION OR SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!

PIECES OF PAPER PRINTED TO SAVE LIVES AND THAT IN REALITY STRONGLY DISCOURAGE ILLEGAL CROSSING SIMPLY DO NOT COUNT!!!!

 

[José]

Originally posted by gekaap
Second, Mexico's heavy flood of illegal aliens does create a responsibility to make attempts to curb the flow, if nothing else at least through means of their own border security making attempts to identify people who are caught attempting to cross the border illegally.

Says the total ignoramus who doesn't understand a thing about border relations between neighboring countries.

This is the international norm:

In the absence of a border agreement each side is responsible for its own side of the border.

Mexico is under no obligation to do anything to solve the problem of illegal mexican citizens in America.

And America is under no obligation to help solving the problem of illegal american weapons in Mexico.

But I'll give you another opportunity to back up your claims:

SHOW THE BOARD A DETAILED, COMPREHENSIVE BORDER AGREEMENT SIGNED BY MEXICO AND THE US THAT STATES THAT MEXICO HAS ANY RESPONSABILITY TO HELP SOLVE THE US IMMIGRATION PROBLEM.

I'M TALKING ABOUT DETAILED AGREEMENTS NOT GENERAL, VAGUE PRESIDENTIAL STATEMENTS AND "DECLARATIONS OF INTENTIONS".

You won't be able to find any BECAUSE THIS AGREEMENT SIMPLY DO NOT EXIST. So you pulled your "Mexico's responsability to make attempts to stop the flow" out of your ass.

There's absolutely no international law or border agreement stating that Mexico has such an obligation.

DISMISSED!!

 

[José]

And one more thing.

Mexico not only is under no legal obligation to help the US solve its immigration problems BUT IN MY OPINION THE COUNTRY SHOULD ABSTAIN FROM SUCH COLABORATION AS A MATTER OF NATIONAL PRIDE!!

IT'S HUMILIATING FOR MEXICO TO ACT AS THE BORDER PATROL OF THE SAME COUNTRY THAT STOLE HALF OF ITS TERRITORY BY BRUTE FORCE!!

 

[José]

Originally posted by gekaap
Yes it can. The Mexicans are the ones who have built for themselves such a long history of social injustice and prejudice and racism within their own country as to give rise to the current miserable state of Mexican economics. They are the ones that continue to elect cartel backed politicians. They are the ones who choose to remain apathetic to the widespread corruption within the Mexican government. And that's the number one reason why the US needs to curb the flow of illegal immigration. Because the cultural pollution of Mexico's trash is a hindrance to American prosperity.

COME ON, GEKAAP!!!!

Since you blame Mexico for its underdevelopment explain to the whole Board why the USA

FAILED MISERABLY IN CUBA.

FAILED MISERABLY IN PUERTO RICO.

IS FAILING MISERABLY IN AFGHANISTAN.

IS FAILING MISERABLY IN IRAQ.

Those who want to point the finger of blame at others must set a good example first, gekaap!!!!

YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DEMAND FROM MEXICO THE SAME ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT YOUR OWN NATION FAILED MISERABLY TO ACHIEVE IN SO MANY OF HER PAST AND PRESENT COLONIES!!

STOP HIDING BEHIND THE DESK AND ADMIT THAT YOUR NATION IS IN NO POSITION TO DEMAND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT FROM ANYBODY AFTER ALL THOSE ABYSMAL FAILURES!!

 

[José]

Originally posted by gekaap
But I do demand that Mexico stop prospering from American taxes, while eating up American jobs and driving down the wages for jobs that America workers hold. And, I demand that Mexicans stop coming into my country and demanding that I should know how to speak their language when they have no interest in trying to learn our language.

Demand all these things from the US government!!!!

The US is responsible for arresting and deporting illegal immigrants IN AMERICAN SOIL.

 

[José]

GEKAAP AFTER
THE BEATDOWN

 

[FifthColumn]

Mexico, the failed nation, Vicente Fox, ex-presidente of Mexico stated he reduced poverty by 50%, funny, it was done by illegal immigration.i
Mexicans are extremely racist people, at least the ones who claim to be of pure Spanish blood, the elites, the poor indians and mixed people suffer. Great people, real sad.

To the point, jobs Americans will not do. I have picked strawberries, blueberries, string beans, apples, and worms. I have worked side by side, with a shovel, landscaping in Southern California with illegal aliens. Hard workers who are typically very good people, a few are pretty confused politically but for the most part they seem okay.

The damn media war that is constantly trying to stir up racism is taking its toll, I think its turning some of the younger Mexicans hateful or fearful of us.

Pretty big shame.

Our condo is undergoing some major renovation. I would say at least 75 percent of the carpenters, foremen, and manual labor is Mexican. These guys work damn hard. There're on scaffolding in freezing weather nailing up waterproofing, pushing wheelbarrows through the mud and ice when the wind chill is about 10 degrees. I suspect that most of these people are illegal or at least would have a problem proving their legal. I really don't believe this country would be better off without them.

I drove home this morning, I passed about 25 Mexicans or at least they appeared to be Mexicans, standing in front of Home Depot ready to do just about any kind of work. A few blocks down the street at the Interstate entrance, I counted four Anglos carrying signs begging for money or food with no mention of work. This is not an isolated incident. I see it daily.

Why not stop and ask them why the Mexican Army isn't helping out in Iraq? Oh, yeah! Fighting evil is a job even Mexicans won't do!

Try talking to a holocaust survivior about all the crap they went through while Mexicans were picking crops in the US nice and safe during WW2.

Try talking to a WW2 veteran and ask how many Mexicans were in his outfit.

Try checking out a neighborhood that has been overrun with Mexicans. They attack senior citizens on their way to church and break into cars while Americans go to Mass. Yeah, those Mexicans sure are hard working, God fearing, .........

 

[FifthColumn]

GEKAAP AFTER

THE BEATDOWN​

JOSE HAVING A DISCUSSION WITH L A's FINEST!

​

 

[FifthColumn]

So you guys want to deport American citizens to Mexico?

Hell I wouldn't mind being deported to Mexico, and I ain't even Mexican but shit the weather is better down there then up in this ice box so why not?

I'll bet the more than half of the world's people who live on less than 2 dollars a day and don't have clean drinking water would find Mexico a paradise!