Lincoln was a great leader exclusive of the war, darn him

[bripat9643]

Lincoln's presidency strengthened the right of speech, even so that folks like bripat can post silly things above.

Oh, right. Shutting down 300 newspapers because they criticized the government strengthened the First Amendment.

 

[bripat9643]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

When did Congress declare war on the Confederacy? I must have missed that.

 

[gipper]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh stop it, Hyperbolic Boy.

You have lost this discussion a dozen times over the years.

You are wrong. You disagree. You are still wrong.

 

[gipper]

gipper, it is wonderful in our country that we have generally the freedom to say what we want, yeah? Even you.

Agreed. However freedom of speech is under attack today as it was during Lincoln's time...when he closed hundreds of neespapers and imprisoned hundreds of people who disagreed with his war and unconstitutional acts.

For decades in the South, before the War, Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed.

At least Lincoln did so in a time of war - and most often for good reason.

The Confederacy imprisoned thousands of political prisoners as well, but your DiLorenzo propaganda (the White Nationalist strikes again!) counts a great number of people, who in a time of war were
Deserters or draft evaders, there were those who were smuggling, conducting guerrilla activity, spying, etc.,
those found to be illegally trading with the Confederacy,
thieves who defrauded the War Department,
or those who were Confederate civilians in the Union.

The number of hundreds of newspapers has never been confirmed, DiLorenzo exaggerates, but newspapers who were shut down were often those who were calling for Union soldiers to desert, encouraging men to resist the draft, or advocated more states to join the confederacy - most often carried out by a few Union Officers.

One General who did arrest a newspaper published was called on the carpet by Lincoln with this:

"Under your recent order, which I have approved, you will only arrest individuals, and suppress assemblies, or newspapers, when they may be working palpable injury to the Military in your charge; and, in no other case will you interfere with the expression of opinion in any form, or allow it to be interfere with the expression of opinion in any form, or allow it to be interfered with violently by others. In this, you have a discretion to exercise with great caution, calmness, and forebearance.”
“With the matters of removing the inhabitants of certain counties en masse; and of removing certain individuals from time to time, who are supposed to be mischievous, I am not now interfering, but I am leaving to your own discretion.”

Abraham Lincoln and Missouri

Lincoln's depredations in the course of the war were not confined, however, to the South. As mentioned above Lincoln also interfered with the functioning of constitutional government in the North by arresting elected representatives of the people and holding them for military trial. /57 By Executive Order he closed down hundreds of newspapers in the North which criticized the war. He abolished the writ of habeas corpus and is estimated to have held as many as 20,000 civilians in detention without trial. /58 The suffering of the North, while not as horrific as that of the South, especially since the Northern civilian population at large escaped its severity, was none the less very real. The battle losses were far in excess of anyone's expectations. /59
Shattering the Icon of Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln was hated by many in both the North and South during his disastrous tenure as POTUS. It wasn't until after his death, that he was turned into a cult like figure...which sadly many Americans have accepted as factual.

 

[gipper]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

When did Congress declare war on the Confederacy? I must have missed that.

Do not confuse the Lincoln cultist with facts. They long ago lost the ability to reason logically.

Is it any wonder we now have a government with unlimited powers?

 

[paperview]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

 

[bripat9643]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Also servile toadies like Fakey love it.

 

[bripat9643]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

Hmmmm . . . the first thing the federalists did when they got into power was pass the alien and sedition acts, so you're blubbering about free speech in the South is rather hypocritical, don't you think?

 

[gipper]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

Your post means nothing and appears to be an effort to derail the debate on Lincoln's many tyrannical actions.

I oppose government tyranny no matter where it occurs.

Some simple minded people seem to think if one is critical of Lincoln, then the one automatically loves the south. Try not to be so simplistic.

 

[paperview]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

Hmmmm . . . the first thing the federalists did when they got into power was pass the alien and sedition acts, so you're blubbering about free speech in the South is rather hypocritical, don't you think?

ah, here goest the relativism.

First the alien and sedition acts were passed during a time of war in 1798 - two years later, they were gone.

Now explain how that compared to DECADES - not in a time of war, when the South did not allow Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association?

 

[Moonglow]

because the congress regarded the southern members as merely absent rather than being in a different country somewhere, the Republicans were able to do lots of things for good and bad. The southern members insured transformational politics. I don't like, for example, the corruption that went with the railroads. But the republican congresses between 1861 and 1867 did more for the country than any prior to 1933, and more good for the country ever.

The president of the nation after Lincoln died was a democrat from a slave state....

 

[paperview]

In time of war, the pres does things that are no longer unconstitutional because the Constitution is threatened by traitors. Everything AL did was constitutional.

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

Your post means nothing and appears to be an effort to derail the debate on Lincoln's many tyrannical actions.

I oppose government tyranny no matter where it occurs.

Some simple minded people seem to think if one is critical of Lincoln, then the one automatically loves the south. Try not to be so simplistic.

You're the one that brought it up, Bubba, pointing a finger at one - during wartime, and not acknowledging the wholesale abuse of rights not during wartime, of those you repeatedly defend.

 

[gipper]

If you believe that, you like tyranny.

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

Your post means nothing and appears to be an effort to derail the debate on Lincoln's many tyrannical actions.

I oppose government tyranny no matter where it occurs.

Some simple minded people seem to think if one is critical of Lincoln, then the one automatically loves the south. Try not to be so simplistic.

You're the one that brought it up, Bubba, pointing a finger at one - during wartime, and not acknowledging the wholesale abuse of rights not during wartime, of those you repeatedly defend.

Again you confuse my position.

You seem to believe that because I am critical of Lincoln, I approve of abusive actions by the Confederacy.

Most illogical.

 

[paperview]

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

Your post means nothing and appears to be an effort to derail the debate on Lincoln's many tyrannical actions.

I oppose government tyranny no matter where it occurs.

Some simple minded people seem to think if one is critical of Lincoln, then the one automatically loves the south. Try not to be so simplistic.

You're the one that brought it up, Bubba, pointing a finger at one - during wartime, and not acknowledging the wholesale abuse of rights not during wartime, of those you repeatedly defend.

Again you confuse my position.

You seem to believe that because I am critical of Lincoln, I approve of abusive actions by the Confederacy.

Most illogical.

Every post I've seen of yours on the subject, you defend the South to the hilt. Have some intellectually honesty and admit the future Confederates were every bit the tyrants you abhor in the North.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The silly anarchist and libertarian cultists hate it when their butts get kicked over Lincoln, and that happens every time.

 

[JakeStarkey]

It's fact that it was constitutional.

Those who resisted lawful government and tried to destroy the nation brought on lawful consequences.

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

Your post means nothing and appears to be an effort to derail the debate on Lincoln's many tyrannical actions.

I oppose government tyranny no matter where it occurs.

Some simple minded people seem to think if one is critical of Lincoln, then the one automatically loves the south. Try not to be so simplistic.

You're the one that brought it up, Bubba, pointing a finger at one - during wartime, and not acknowledging the wholesale abuse of rights not during wartime, of those you repeatedly defend.

Again you confuse my position.

You seem to believe that because I am critical of Lincoln, I approve of abusive actions by the Confederacy.

Most illogical.

Be critical by all means, but I suggest you bring objectivity and scholarship to the point.

 

[gipper]

You believe government can do whatever it wants in war time.

Is it any wonder politicians and the power elite love war, when some of the people will gladly grant them unlimited power.

Care to discuss the decades in the South, before the War, when Freedom of Speech, Freedom of the Press and Freedom of Association was not allowed?

Your post means nothing and appears to be an effort to derail the debate on Lincoln's many tyrannical actions.

I oppose government tyranny no matter where it occurs.

Some simple minded people seem to think if one is critical of Lincoln, then the one automatically loves the south. Try not to be so simplistic.

You're the one that brought it up, Bubba, pointing a finger at one - during wartime, and not acknowledging the wholesale abuse of rights not during wartime, of those you repeatedly defend.

Again you confuse my position.

You seem to believe that because I am critical of Lincoln, I approve of abusive actions by the Confederacy.

Most illogical.

Every post I've seen of yours on the subject, you defend the South to the hilt. Have some intellectually honesty and admit the future Confederates were every bit the tyrants you abhor in the North.

You make my point. I regularly criticize Dishonest Abe, but seldom have defended the South other than to say that every state was sovereign, prior to Lincoln's war, and had the right to secede.

You just want to believe that I am some kind of crazy Neo-Confederate for dissing your beloved Lincoln. It is a knee jerk reaction common to Lincoln cultists.

 

[jwoodie]

Oh stop it, Hyperbolic Boy.

You have lost this discussion a dozen times over the years.

You are wrong. You disagree. You are still wrong.

You sound like Obama claiming victory in Iraq.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Oh stop it, Hyperbolic Boy.

You have lost this discussion a dozen times over the years.

You are wrong. You disagree. You are still wrong.

You sound like Obama claiming victory in Iraq.

What, that you wing nuts are wrong? Yeah, you are, just as wrong as Obama and Bush claiming victory.