Live Stream: RIOT WATCH - St Louis, MO ...

[leftwinger]

Never seen a bad shoot. Should be more of them IMVHO. Police Officer hands are tied by elected leftist loons in every major urban center. Better dead scum than valuable trained Officers. Damage awards to scum families need to end now. Leftist court lawyer puke cause that. All DemonCrats are lawyers, must get a big cut........

 

[frigidweirdo]

I didn't claim that at all. I wasn't speaking about one specific incident, I'm speaking about the whole package, all incidents coming together to make people feel like they're being targeted. Now, this is whether what happens is real or not. For example there was the incident of the police officer trying to calm a white woman down. She said she was scared, she didn't want to get shot. Why would she think this? Because of the way a lot of this has been portrayed. The officer said she wasn't black, she wouldn't get shot. This ended up in the media which again perpetuates the whole thing that black people are targets.

Now, you can try blaming the media, but the media is a part of the system which is becoming more and more partisan every year. The problems are becoming worse each year and the two sides have more interest fighting each other than actually doing anything about anything.

That's the problem.

You don't care what color he is. Fine, but that doesn't change the facts that black people often feel like they're being treated differently by the police and others. And after suffering slavery, then segregation, then hidden racism or more overt racism since then, who can really blame them. Then you have political leaders who will always try and stir up the shit in order to further their agenda.

Until the US tries to solve its basic problems, like the way people vote, the two party system being corrupt and partisan as hell, then everything else is pointless. Because nothing will actually change.

They feel like they are being targeted...because they are.

African-Americans are 13% of the population of the United States, but commit 50% of the homicides and nearly 40% of the violent crimes.

If we assume an equal gender divide...nearly 40% of violent crimes and homicides are committed by SIX PERCENT of the population.

Again, when the witnesses identify a black male, or surveillance tapes show a black guy nearly 40% of the time, at 6% of the population, that's pretty fuckin' targeted.

I suppose law enforcement can waste their time and resources looking for a white guy instead...in the spirit of equality. Is that the liberal solution?

This is the factcheck from BBC Channel 4 to back up my statistics.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

Yes, I understand this.

The question here is, why do black people commit more crimes?

Could it be that black people are more likely to be in poverty? Depending on who you listen to, it could be anywhere between like 20% and 30% of black people in poverty. But you have different levels of poverty, and you different levels of social issues, mostly inner city areas are more likely to produce criminals, and black people often live in large cities and they live in the poorer parts.

Detroit is the city (well things have changed quickly there, but based on these statistics) with the highest level of black population. It has 84.3% black population. Also Detroit has lost lots of industry. There are problems in the US with other places attracting businesses and getting tax breaks, and often it's going to hurt those people who are most in poverty.

Other larger cities with large black populations are the inner city places, Birmingham AL, Baltimore, etc etc.

Some people will say that it's blacks that have made these places bad, others might say that it's other reasons. The further you go back the more you see the problems, white people have been controlling things for so long, and black people have ended up with the menial jobs, and been kicked around by white people and made to feel like there's no hope. If two people went from a job in many places, who'd get the job? The white guy. So, these lack of hope can't have helped either. Everyone can make it in the US, but some people have to struggle against unfair bias far more and get frustrated and turn to crime in order to actually make it.

I don't buy it.

There are desperately poor areas in Appalachia and in various places in rural America. But we never see white people behaving the way blacks do: rioting, looting, whining, burning cars and buildings, destroying businesses, etc, etc. And you don't see them making excuses and blaming the whole world for their problems and struggles, either. There is much more at work here. It's a cultural problem as much as a poverty problem, imo.

The one thing that is crystal clear, is that making never-ending excuses for failure and lack of effort does not help.

You don't buy it? Does this mean it isn't true?

Like I said, inner city areas are more likely to end up with people committing crime.

White people probably know that they're at the bottom of the pile because of their own efforts. Black people might not see things like this. They might see racial prejudice as the reason for their position in society, regardless of whether this is true or not. And therefore they believe things are hopeless. Being in inner cities makes people's lives less personal, so they're more likely to commit crime because they don't have the fear of annoying their neighbors, or even being caught by the police.

This isn't necessarily about excuses. This is about seeing what's out there in the world.

The biggest problem is the US govt and many state govts don't want to solve societies issues, and that's the reason why the US has far more problems than Europe. However the right like to make things simple, by just blaming race.

The problem is that the Americas are the crime capital of the world, not Africa. Many countries in Africa have lower crimes rates than the USA, so is it just black people who are the problem? What about Honduras? Is that to blame on the black people too? No, there are hardly any there.

frigidweirdo said:
You don’t buy it? Does this mean it isn’t true?

Of course not, but I have a choice about what I believe. I was raised in an inner city and spent decades there, so my opinions are based on personal experience, not wishful thinking.

frigidweirdo said:
Like I said, inner city areas are more likely to end up with people committing crime.

Yes, like Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, etc, etc., all cities with large black populations in their inner cities? Yeah, I’d agree with that.

frigidweirdo said:
This isn’t necessarily about excuses. This is about seeing what’s out there in the world.

No, it’s not about “seeing what’s out there.” It’s about seeing what we choose to see “out there.”

frigidweirdo said:
White people probably know that they’re at the bottom of the pile because of their own efforts. Black people might not see things like this. They might see racial prejudice as the reason for their position in society, regardless of whether this is true or not. And therefore they believe things are hopeless. Being in inner cities makes people’s lives less personal, so they’re more likely to commit crime because they don’t have the fear of annoying their neighbors, or even being caught by the police.

If black people believe things are hopeless, then that will be true, for them. No one can make them believe in themselves, or in the value of getting an education, or in the value of hard work and thrift. These beliefs are either a part of a culture, or they are not. No one can change that but the people in question. That’s why I said most of the problems are cultural. That’s not to say there are not other issues involved. But if the cultural aspect is not addressed things will never improve, imo. And, only blacks can address their own cultural problems.

frigidweirdo said:
The biggest problem is the US govt and many state govts don’t want to solve societies issues, and that’s the reason why the US has far more problems than Europe. However the right like to make things simple, by just blaming race.

What “issues” is government supposed to solve. It IS NOT the business of government to do for people what they are NOT willing to do for themselves. And this has nothing to do with Europe.

frigidweirdo said:
The problem is that the Americas are the crime capital of the world, not Africa. Many countries in Africa have lower crimes rates than the USA, so is it just black people who are the problem? What about Honduras? Is that to blame on the black people too? No, there are hardly any there.

Blacks are thirteen percent of the population yet they commit an astronomical number of violent crimes (rape and murder, for instance) given the relative size of their population. I’m not an expert in crime statistics so I won’t get into a pissing contest with you about crime in Africa, or America. I couldn’t care less about Africa’s crime rates, or anything else for that matter.

But blacks DO commit loads of crime here, especially in the inner cities. But rather than make more excuses for their behavior, we should consider one huge factor that is always overlooked: the decision to commit a crime is a personal choice. IT IS A CHOICE. No one makes blacks loot and riot. No one make them gather together a mob and run through a mall stealing everything they can carry and attacking innocent people along the way. These are choices these people make for themselves. And they deserve to be sent to prison if they make those choices.

And here's one more thing that’s very interesting. Why is it that so many people immigrate here with nothing but the clothes on their backs, often not speaking English, having no friends, etc., yet through sheer hard work and determination THEY manage to carve out a life for themselves, earn a living, and succeed in modest, and sometimes huge ways. I’ve seen this over and over, with my own eyes, done by people I have known. One thing I’ve never heard these people do, is whine and moan, and blame everyone and everything for their own problems. These immigrants, legal and illegal, were far too busy working their asses off to complain and whine. And they had a secret weapon, too: a huge desire to work hard and improve their lives. They didn’t expect anyone to do anything for them. It’s a cultural thing.

Yes, you have a choice of what you want to believe. Now, do you want to "believe" or do you want to try and figure out the truth? That's really your choice. Most people go with believing because it's easier on the brain, it fits in with their agendas and they're happier.

Yes, if black people believe things are hopeless, then this is what it will be. The problem here is that other people can make this happen too. And we know it's been happening for a long time. Slavery kept black people "in their place", segregation also kept them "in their place". But what happened after this was often more subtle, but nonetheless it happened. Black people were refused jobs, black people were never shown houses in certain areas, black people would be in areas with less money being spent on them, spent on schools, and over time this has manifested itself into what exists today.

"What “issues” is government supposed to solve. It IS NOT the business of government to do for people what they are NOT willing to do for themselves. And this has nothing to do with Europe."

This statement just sums up everything that is wrong with the USA. The voters have been told to think in a certain manner and then they believe it, and the perpetuate the problems because they don't see any problem in these politicians doing nothing. This is one of the reasons why the US is imploding.

What issues is the govt supposed to solve? Social issues, making society a better place. Do you know why you wave flags and sing the national anthem. It's for social cohesion. But it didn't work that well. It keeps the peace to a certain extent, but that's falling apart as some black people see themselves as different, different because they're being treated differently.

As for it has nothing to do with Europe, I didn't say it had anything to do with Europe, what I did say was that if you look to Europe, the place that has the most first world countries, you'll see things working differently and you'll see less problems.

How do you solve problems without looking at those places that solve problems? Oh, right, you don't care because it's not the govt's job to do anything. They're just there to facilitate the rich getting richer and everyone else can fester in a pool of shit.

Okay, blacks are 13% of the country's population. Facts are facts, but you have to understand facts to understand what's going on.

For example in London they have statistics per borough, and I've looked at those statistics, a city where black people do worse than white people. However I found the crime went hand in hand with poverty in the city (it's easier to focus just on a city because poverty outside of cities manifests itself differently).

Now, the problem here is the lack of statistics. You're choosing to believe. I'm searching for the truth. I don't know everything about this topic, simply because I struggle to find the facts.

But when black people suffer around 25% poverty rates and white people suffer 7% poverty rates, and then you wonder why black people commit more crimes than white white people per capita.

Now, the biggest problem here is that black people commit MORE crimes per capita even when taking into account the poverty rate. Which begs the question WHY?

Well, the first problem is that two people in poverty might be earning very different amounts of money.
The second is that two people in poverty might be living in very different areas.

Many people born into inner city areas are surrounded by drugs, gangs, etc. There is a big problem with single parent families, kids are joining gangs at a young age because their family is none existent, and the cycle of poverty goes around and around but getting worse every single time.

How would anyone solve this? Well there are ways, but as no one gives a fuck, then nothing happens. Only people do give a fuck, but they're often fighting a lone battle and the govt won't get involved.

Here's a related example from West Virginia. There's a British TV chef called Jamie Oliver, he went to the West Virginia to a high school to try and change the eating habits in schools. Now, politicians have come up with this nice chart about eating and said you need this and that in the food, and out pops pizza. What the fuck? They're feeding their kids shit food because it's cheap, and the kid will get fat from it.

At first the people were just like "we don't need no Brit to tell us how to do things", then after a while they realized it was actually probably better.

Then they were like "well, you have to prove it can work, before we'll implement it, but we won't let you implement it, until you've proven it can work", ah, the circle "fuck off" argument.

Food is an important part of life for kids, surprisingly. And in the US people can't even be bothered to work together to try and get kids eating properly in schools. Half the people say "get food out of schools, it's not the govt's place to give food to anyone at all, ever", the other half are like "it's my fucking right to feed my kids shit day in day out, and I want them to eat shit at school".

And then you wonder how the fuck a country could have got itself into such a bad mess. And you realize, no one gives a fuck.

It's not the govt's responsibility.
It's not the parent's responsibility.
It's not the school's responsibility.

No, we have rights so we don't have to be responsible for anything. We have power so we don't have to be responsible for anything.

Then you come along and ask we what problems there are to solve.


Fuck me, where do I start?

 

[frigidweirdo]

And here's one more thing that’s very interesting. Why is it that so many people immigrate here with nothing but the clothes on their backs, often not speaking English, having no friends, etc., yet through sheer hard work and determination THEY manage to carve out a life for themselves, earn a living, and succeed in modest, and sometimes huge ways. I’ve seen this over and over, with my own eyes, done by people I have known. One thing I’ve never heard these people do, is whine and moan, and blame everyone and everything for their own problems. These immigrants, legal and illegal, were far too busy working their asses off to complain and whine. And they had a secret weapon, too: a huge desire to work hard and improve their lives. They didn’t expect anyone to do anything for them. It’s a cultural thing.

Yes, they do.

There problem here is attitude. The people who emigrate to the US believe they can make it.

The black people believe they'll be fucked over at ever step.

So, the issue here is, HOW DO YOU CHANGE SUCH AN ATTITUDE?

Here's another part of the problem, god, there are so many problems it's almost impossible to figure out what's going on.

The govt gives large corporations tax breaks, which makes it harder for smaller businesses. In fact it shows that many govts don't care about smaller businesses, which would make the US far better, rather than having people working for low pay, and getting food stamps and govt money for working in Walmart so the Walmart bitches can get rich.

You want people to have the attitude that they can make it, yet they continually go out of their way to make sure RICH PEOPLE make it.

This is just one issue among many which show people that the country isn't about them, that the hope isn't there. Immigrants don't know this shit yet.

 

[Billo_Really]

The prosecution didn't prove its case...

Hence the riots.

The prosecution did. You and the racist judge disagreed.

Hence the riots.

Now shove a Tom Collins up your ass, you racist bitch!

 

[Picaro]

What if one of the retarded domestic terrorist wannabes blocking traffic gets hit like that idiot a few weeks ago.

Is there a video showing Heather was actually hit by the car?

 

[Billo_Really]

Wrong. The video proved the police officer was not wearing a coat or any other clothing that would allow him to conceal a large hand gun out of view of camera in order to plant it.

So...nope. Not proven at all.

The video proved pre-meditated murder, Ms. Zimmerman.

 

[G.T.]

Shoot those assholes! Kill them all! Fuck em!

Sonny Clark

 

[JQPublic1]

People are tired of seeing people being shot to death in our police state.

Come take my guns.

Will my tank convince you to surrender them?

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

The mall was closed for a time. Loss of business.

OMG! They got scared of the noisy white ladies?

The right to protest ends where the equally valid and important rights of others begin. When that point is reached, it is no longer protest, but anarchy.

They walked through the mall. A few hundred people. And then they left. If that's anarchy, I'm the Queen of Sheba.

The merchants have the right to conduct business in an atmosphere conducive to it. That's why they pay rent and fees.

The merchants have the right to conduct business in an atmosphere conducive to it. That's why they pay rent and fees.

Come now. You live in the D.C. area, a place that is no stranger to protests. As long as the protest doesn't devolve into a riot, businesses generally profit. What do D.C. merchants do in advance of protests? They stock up on the wares they offer because folks come to protest also patronize businesses in the area where they protest and stay during the protest.

Quite simply, people don't show up in a place to protest, only protest and then leave. They come, they "bitch and moan," and they eat and shop.

• Some DC businesses say they'll donate portion of inauguration profits to charities

Surely you've been in the city -- "Lawyers Lane," Adams Morgan, Dupont Circle, Georgetown, Penn and Mass Ave. business corridors on Capitol Hill, Chevy Chase, Cleveland Park, and Woodley Park -- when protests happen and observed the uptick in business? Having in my almost 60 years lived in various parts of city -- Forest Hills, Georgetown, West End and Kalorama -- I damn sure have.

• One'd better have reservations or a restaurateur friend who'll offer one a table "in the kitchen" because most places are too busy for one to just walk in and be immediately seated.
• Try hailing or calling for a cab or booking car service.
• Go to a bar or club in the evening; it'll be packed to the gills.

Sadly, though the isolated bits of damage make it into the news, the boom in sales revenue does not, but one need only be present downtown to see that businesses thrive when protests come to town.

You're full of Sterno. Yes, I lived there too, in Georgetown at the height of the war protests. I was very likely at the protest in second pic, trolling for girls and weed. I never missed a one. Many of the businesses along the route were closed, and the streets blocked from traffic.

That said, your reasoning misses the point. The mall in St. Louis closed due to security concerns, and the merchants' rights were trampled.

 

[JQPublic1]

People are tired of seeing people being shot to death in our police state.

Then maybe they should stop giving the police a reason to shoot them.

Aww any ol' reason is good enuf it seems.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

People are tired of seeing people being shot to death in our police state.

Come take my guns.

Will my tank convince you to surrender them?

I strongly suspect your tank contains nothing but nitrous oxide.

 

[jasonnfree]

They feel like they are being targeted...because they are.

African-Americans are 13% of the population of the United States, but commit 50% of the homicides and nearly 40% of the violent crimes.

If we assume an equal gender divide...nearly 40% of violent crimes and homicides are committed by SIX PERCENT of the population.

Again, when the witnesses identify a black male, or surveillance tapes show a black guy nearly 40% of the time, at 6% of the population, that's pretty fuckin' targeted.

I suppose law enforcement can waste their time and resources looking for a white guy instead...in the spirit of equality. Is that the liberal solution?

This is the factcheck from BBC Channel 4 to back up my statistics.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

Yes, I understand this.

The question here is, why do black people commit more crimes?

Could it be that black people are more likely to be in poverty? Depending on who you listen to, it could be anywhere between like 20% and 30% of black people in poverty. But you have different levels of poverty, and you different levels of social issues, mostly inner city areas are more likely to produce criminals, and black people often live in large cities and they live in the poorer parts.

Detroit is the city (well things have changed quickly there, but based on these statistics) with the highest level of black population. It has 84.3% black population. Also Detroit has lost lots of industry. There are problems in the US with other places attracting businesses and getting tax breaks, and often it's going to hurt those people who are most in poverty.

Other larger cities with large black populations are the inner city places, Birmingham AL, Baltimore, etc etc.

Some people will say that it's blacks that have made these places bad, others might say that it's other reasons. The further you go back the more you see the problems, white people have been controlling things for so long, and black people have ended up with the menial jobs, and been kicked around by white people and made to feel like there's no hope. If two people went from a job in many places, who'd get the job? The white guy. So, these lack of hope can't have helped either. Everyone can make it in the US, but some people have to struggle against unfair bias far more and get frustrated and turn to crime in order to actually make it.

I don't buy it.

There are desperately poor areas in Appalachia and in various places in rural America. But we never see white people behaving the way blacks do: rioting, looting, whining, burning cars and buildings, destroying businesses, etc, etc. And you don't see them making excuses and blaming the whole world for their problems and struggles, either. There is much more at work here. It's a cultural problem as much as a poverty problem, imo.

The one thing that is crystal clear, is that making never-ending excuses for failure and lack of effort does not help.

You don't buy it? Does this mean it isn't true?

Like I said, inner city areas are more likely to end up with people committing crime.

White people probably know that they're at the bottom of the pile because of their own efforts. Black people might not see things like this. They might see racial prejudice as the reason for their position in society, regardless of whether this is true or not. And therefore they believe things are hopeless. Being in inner cities makes people's lives less personal, so they're more likely to commit crime because they don't have the fear of annoying their neighbors, or even being caught by the police.

This isn't necessarily about excuses. This is about seeing what's out there in the world.

The biggest problem is the US govt and many state govts don't want to solve societies issues, and that's the reason why the US has far more problems than Europe. However the right like to make things simple, by just blaming race.

The problem is that the Americas are the crime capital of the world, not Africa. Many countries in Africa have lower crimes rates than the USA, so is it just black people who are the problem? What about Honduras? Is that to blame on the black people too? No, there are hardly any there.

frigidweirdo said:
You don’t buy it? Does this mean it isn’t true?

Of course not, but I have a choice about what I believe. I was raised in an inner city and spent decades there, so my opinions are based on personal experience, not wishful thinking.

frigidweirdo said:
Like I said, inner city areas are more likely to end up with people committing crime.

Yes, like Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, etc, etc., all cities with large black populations in their inner cities? Yeah, I’d agree with that.

frigidweirdo said:
This isn’t necessarily about excuses. This is about seeing what’s out there in the world.

No, it’s not about “seeing what’s out there.” It’s about seeing what we choose to see “out there.”

frigidweirdo said:
White people probably know that they’re at the bottom of the pile because of their own efforts. Black people might not see things like this. They might see racial prejudice as the reason for their position in society, regardless of whether this is true or not. And therefore they believe things are hopeless. Being in inner cities makes people’s lives less personal, so they’re more likely to commit crime because they don’t have the fear of annoying their neighbors, or even being caught by the police.

If black people believe things are hopeless, then that will be true, for them. No one can make them believe in themselves, or in the value of getting an education, or in the value of hard work and thrift. These beliefs are either a part of a culture, or they are not. No one can change that but the people in question. That’s why I said most of the problems are cultural. That’s not to say there are not other issues involved. But if the cultural aspect is not addressed things will never improve, imo. And, only blacks can address their own cultural problems.

frigidweirdo said:
The biggest problem is the US govt and many state govts don’t want to solve societies issues, and that’s the reason why the US has far more problems than Europe. However the right like to make things simple, by just blaming race.

What “issues” is government supposed to solve. It IS NOT the business of government to do for people what they are NOT willing to do for themselves. And this has nothing to do with Europe.

frigidweirdo said:
The problem is that the Americas are the crime capital of the world, not Africa. Many countries in Africa have lower crimes rates than the USA, so is it just black people who are the problem? What about Honduras? Is that to blame on the black people too? No, there are hardly any there.

Blacks are thirteen percent of the population yet they commit an astronomical number of violent crimes (rape and murder, for instance) given the relative size of their population. I’m not an expert in crime statistics so I won’t get into a pissing contest with you about crime in Africa, or America. I couldn’t care less about Africa’s crime rates, or anything else for that matter.

But blacks DO commit loads of crime here, especially in the inner cities. But rather than make more excuses for their behavior, we should consider one huge factor that is always overlooked: the decision to commit a crime is a personal choice. IT IS A CHOICE. No one makes blacks loot and riot. No one make them gather together a mob and run through a mall stealing everything they can carry and attacking innocent people along the way. These are choices these people make for themselves. And they deserve to be sent to prison if they make those choices.

And here's one more thing that’s very interesting. Why is it that so many people immigrate here with nothing but the clothes on their backs, often not speaking English, having no friends, etc., yet through sheer hard work and determination THEY manage to carve out a life for themselves, earn a living, and succeed in modest, and sometimes huge ways. I’ve seen this over and over, with my own eyes, done by people I have known. One thing I’ve never heard these people do, is whine and moan, and blame everyone and everything for their own problems. These immigrants, legal and illegal, were far too busy working their asses off to complain and whine. And they had a secret weapon, too: a huge desire to work hard and improve their lives. They didn’t expect anyone to do anything for them. It’s a cultural thing.

Yes, you have a choice of what you want to believe. Now, do you want to "believe" or do you want to try and figure out the truth? That's really your choice. Most people go with believing because it's easier on the brain, it fits in with their agendas and they're happier.

Yes, if black people believe things are hopeless, then this is what it will be. The problem here is that other people can make this happen too. And we know it's been happening for a long time. Slavery kept black people "in their place", segregation also kept them "in their place". But what happened after this was often more subtle, but nonetheless it happened. Black people were refused jobs, black people were never shown houses in certain areas, black people would be in areas with less money being spent on them, spent on schools, and over time this has manifested itself into what exists today.

"What “issues” is government supposed to solve. It IS NOT the business of government to do for people what they are NOT willing to do for themselves. And this has nothing to do with Europe."

This statement just sums up everything that is wrong with the USA. The voters have been told to think in a certain manner and then they believe it, and the perpetuate the problems because they don't see any problem in these politicians doing nothing. This is one of the reasons why the US is imploding.

What issues is the govt supposed to solve? Social issues, making society a better place. Do you know why you wave flags and sing the national anthem. It's for social cohesion. But it didn't work that well. It keeps the peace to a certain extent, but that's falling apart as some black people see themselves as different, different because they're being treated differently.

As for it has nothing to do with Europe, I didn't say it had anything to do with Europe, what I did say was that if you look to Europe, the place that has the most first world countries, you'll see things working differently and you'll see less problems.

How do you solve problems without looking at those places that solve problems? Oh, right, you don't care because it's not the govt's job to do anything. They're just there to facilitate the rich getting richer and everyone else can fester in a pool of shit.

Okay, blacks are 13% of the country's population. Facts are facts, but you have to understand facts to understand what's going on.

For example in London they have statistics per borough, and I've looked at those statistics, a city where black people do worse than white people. However I found the crime went hand in hand with poverty in the city (it's easier to focus just on a city because poverty outside of cities manifests itself differently).

Now, the problem here is the lack of statistics. You're choosing to believe. I'm searching for the truth. I don't know everything about this topic, simply because I struggle to find the facts.

But when black people suffer around 25% poverty rates and white people suffer 7% poverty rates, and then you wonder why black people commit more crimes than white white people per capita.

Now, the biggest problem here is that black people commit MORE crimes per capita even when taking into account the poverty rate. Which begs the question WHY?

Well, the first problem is that two people in poverty might be earning very different amounts of money.
The second is that two people in poverty might be living in very different areas.

Many people born into inner city areas are surrounded by drugs, gangs, etc. There is a big problem with single parent families, kids are joining gangs at a young age because their family is none existent, and the cycle of poverty goes around and around but getting worse every single time.

How would anyone solve this? Well there are ways, but as no one gives a fuck, then nothing happens. Only people do give a fuck, but they're often fighting a lone battle and the govt won't get involved.

Here's a related example from West Virginia. There's a British TV chef called Jamie Oliver, he went to the West Virginia to a high school to try and change the eating habits in schools. Now, politicians have come up with this nice chart about eating and said you need this and that in the food, and out pops pizza. What the fuck? They're feeding their kids shit food because it's cheap, and the kid will get fat from it.

At first the people were just like "we don't need no Brit to tell us how to do things", then after a while they realized it was actually probably better.

Then they were like "well, you have to prove it can work, before we'll implement it, but we won't let you implement it, until you've proven it can work", ah, the circle "fuck off" argument.

Food is an important part of life for kids, surprisingly. And in the US people can't even be bothered to work together to try and get kids eating properly in schools. Half the people say "get food out of schools, it's not the govt's place to give food to anyone at all, ever", the other half are like "it's my fucking right to feed my kids shit day in day out, and I want them to eat shit at school".

And then you wonder how the fuck a country could have got itself into such a bad mess. And you realize, no one gives a fuck.

It's not the govt's responsibility.
It's not the parent's responsibility.
It's not the school's responsibility.

No, we have rights so we don't have to be responsible for anything. We have power so we don't have to be responsible for anything.

Then you come along and ask we what problems there are to solve.


Fuck me, where do I start?

The Chinese were treated badly when they came here. Japanese rounded up and put in concentration camps. Still, they managed to move on and lead successful lives, and they didn't get the preferential treatment that blacks have gotten over the last half century. Maybe the preferential treatment and getting breaks that no other group has had is why some blacks can't make. Just like when some kids get spoiled rotten instead of being allowed to stand alone on their own two feet.

 

[JQPublic1]

You're black, so we'll shoot you. Then you say that black people should stop being black because they're giving the police a reason to shoot them. Holy sheets.

A heroin dealer ignored police commands, tried to run over an officer, attempted to elude police in an 80 mile an hour car chase, reached for a gun in the vehicle...but they only shot him because he's black.

You sir are the problem.

Who told you that...the gang of white cops involved? Hmmmm. I guess it must be true...cops don't lie...especially white cops.

 

[leftwinger]

^^^^^add in Vietnamese "boat people" following 10 years of war. They were hated on, joked about. Now? Extremely Successful. Indians? Same.

 

[Anathema]

Aww any ol' reason is good enuf it seems.

Yes, as it should be. Jaywalking, speeding, fraud, rape, murder.... they're all crimes and all shoild be punishable by death.

 

[JQPublic1]

Yes, I understand this.

The question here is, why do black people commit more crimes?

Could it be that black people are more likely to be in poverty? Depending on who you listen to, it could be anywhere between like 20% and 30% of black people in poverty. But you have different levels of poverty, and you different levels of social issues, mostly inner city areas are more likely to produce criminals, and black people often live in large cities and they live in the poorer parts.

Detroit is the city (well things have changed quickly there, but based on these statistics) with the highest level of black population. It has 84.3% black population. Also Detroit has lost lots of industry. There are problems in the US with other places attracting businesses and getting tax breaks, and often it's going to hurt those people who are most in poverty.

Other larger cities with large black populations are the inner city places, Birmingham AL, Baltimore, etc etc.

Some people will say that it's blacks that have made these places bad, others might say that it's other reasons. The further you go back the more you see the problems, white people have been controlling things for so long, and black people have ended up with the menial jobs, and been kicked around by white people and made to feel like there's no hope. If two people went from a job in many places, who'd get the job? The white guy. So, these lack of hope can't have helped either. Everyone can make it in the US, but some people have to struggle against unfair bias far more and get frustrated and turn to crime in order to actually make it.

I don't buy it.

There are desperately poor areas in Appalachia and in various places in rural America. But we never see white people behaving the way blacks do: rioting, looting, whining, burning cars and buildings, destroying businesses, etc, etc. And you don't see them making excuses and blaming the whole world for their problems and struggles, either. There is much more at work here. It's a cultural problem as much as a poverty problem, imo.

The one thing that is crystal clear, is that making never-ending excuses for failure and lack of effort does not help.

You don't buy it? Does this mean it isn't true?

Like I said, inner city areas are more likely to end up with people committing crime.

White people probably know that they're at the bottom of the pile because of their own efforts. Black people might not see things like this. They might see racial prejudice as the reason for their position in society, regardless of whether this is true or not. And therefore they believe things are hopeless. Being in inner cities makes people's lives less personal, so they're more likely to commit crime because they don't have the fear of annoying their neighbors, or even being caught by the police.

This isn't necessarily about excuses. This is about seeing what's out there in the world.

The biggest problem is the US govt and many state govts don't want to solve societies issues, and that's the reason why the US has far more problems than Europe. However the right like to make things simple, by just blaming race.

The problem is that the Americas are the crime capital of the world, not Africa. Many countries in Africa have lower crimes rates than the USA, so is it just black people who are the problem? What about Honduras? Is that to blame on the black people too? No, there are hardly any there.

frigidweirdo said:
You don’t buy it? Does this mean it isn’t true?

Of course not, but I have a choice about what I believe. I was raised in an inner city and spent decades there, so my opinions are based on personal experience, not wishful thinking.

frigidweirdo said:
Like I said, inner city areas are more likely to end up with people committing crime.

Yes, like Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, etc, etc., all cities with large black populations in their inner cities? Yeah, I’d agree with that.

frigidweirdo said:
This isn’t necessarily about excuses. This is about seeing what’s out there in the world.

No, it’s not about “seeing what’s out there.” It’s about seeing what we choose to see “out there.”

frigidweirdo said:
White people probably know that they’re at the bottom of the pile because of their own efforts. Black people might not see things like this. They might see racial prejudice as the reason for their position in society, regardless of whether this is true or not. And therefore they believe things are hopeless. Being in inner cities makes people’s lives less personal, so they’re more likely to commit crime because they don’t have the fear of annoying their neighbors, or even being caught by the police.

If black people believe things are hopeless, then that will be true, for them. No one can make them believe in themselves, or in the value of getting an education, or in the value of hard work and thrift. These beliefs are either a part of a culture, or they are not. No one can change that but the people in question. That’s why I said most of the problems are cultural. That’s not to say there are not other issues involved. But if the cultural aspect is not addressed things will never improve, imo. And, only blacks can address their own cultural problems.

frigidweirdo said:
The biggest problem is the US govt and many state govts don’t want to solve societies issues, and that’s the reason why the US has far more problems than Europe. However the right like to make things simple, by just blaming race.

What “issues” is government supposed to solve. It IS NOT the business of government to do for people what they are NOT willing to do for themselves. And this has nothing to do with Europe.

frigidweirdo said:
The problem is that the Americas are the crime capital of the world, not Africa. Many countries in Africa have lower crimes rates than the USA, so is it just black people who are the problem? What about Honduras? Is that to blame on the black people too? No, there are hardly any there.

Blacks are thirteen percent of the population yet they commit an astronomical number of violent crimes (rape and murder, for instance) given the relative size of their population. I’m not an expert in crime statistics so I won’t get into a pissing contest with you about crime in Africa, or America. I couldn’t care less about Africa’s crime rates, or anything else for that matter.

But blacks DO commit loads of crime here, especially in the inner cities. But rather than make more excuses for their behavior, we should consider one huge factor that is always overlooked: the decision to commit a crime is a personal choice. IT IS A CHOICE. No one makes blacks loot and riot. No one make them gather together a mob and run through a mall stealing everything they can carry and attacking innocent people along the way. These are choices these people make for themselves. And they deserve to be sent to prison if they make those choices.

And here's one more thing that’s very interesting. Why is it that so many people immigrate here with nothing but the clothes on their backs, often not speaking English, having no friends, etc., yet through sheer hard work and determination THEY manage to carve out a life for themselves, earn a living, and succeed in modest, and sometimes huge ways. I’ve seen this over and over, with my own eyes, done by people I have known. One thing I’ve never heard these people do, is whine and moan, and blame everyone and everything for their own problems. These immigrants, legal and illegal, were far too busy working their asses off to complain and whine. And they had a secret weapon, too: a huge desire to work hard and improve their lives. They didn’t expect anyone to do anything for them. It’s a cultural thing.

Yes, you have a choice of what you want to believe. Now, do you want to "believe" or do you want to try and figure out the truth? That's really your choice. Most people go with believing because it's easier on the brain, it fits in with their agendas and they're happier.

Yes, if black people believe things are hopeless, then this is what it will be. The problem here is that other people can make this happen too. And we know it's been happening for a long time. Slavery kept black people "in their place", segregation also kept them "in their place". But what happened after this was often more subtle, but nonetheless it happened. Black people were refused jobs, black people were never shown houses in certain areas, black people would be in areas with less money being spent on them, spent on schools, and over time this has manifested itself into what exists today.

"What “issues” is government supposed to solve. It IS NOT the business of government to do for people what they are NOT willing to do for themselves. And this has nothing to do with Europe."

This statement just sums up everything that is wrong with the USA. The voters have been told to think in a certain manner and then they believe it, and the perpetuate the problems because they don't see any problem in these politicians doing nothing. This is one of the reasons why the US is imploding.

What issues is the govt supposed to solve? Social issues, making society a better place. Do you know why you wave flags and sing the national anthem. It's for social cohesion. But it didn't work that well. It keeps the peace to a certain extent, but that's falling apart as some black people see themselves as different, different because they're being treated differently.

As for it has nothing to do with Europe, I didn't say it had anything to do with Europe, what I did say was that if you look to Europe, the place that has the most first world countries, you'll see things working differently and you'll see less problems.

How do you solve problems without looking at those places that solve problems? Oh, right, you don't care because it's not the govt's job to do anything. They're just there to facilitate the rich getting richer and everyone else can fester in a pool of shit.

Okay, blacks are 13% of the country's population. Facts are facts, but you have to understand facts to understand what's going on.

For example in London they have statistics per borough, and I've looked at those statistics, a city where black people do worse than white people. However I found the crime went hand in hand with poverty in the city (it's easier to focus just on a city because poverty outside of cities manifests itself differently).

Now, the problem here is the lack of statistics. You're choosing to believe. I'm searching for the truth. I don't know everything about this topic, simply because I struggle to find the facts.

But when black people suffer around 25% poverty rates and white people suffer 7% poverty rates, and then you wonder why black people commit more crimes than white white people per capita.

Now, the biggest problem here is that black people commit MORE crimes per capita even when taking into account the poverty rate. Which begs the question WHY?

Well, the first problem is that two people in poverty might be earning very different amounts of money.
The second is that two people in poverty might be living in very different areas.

Many people born into inner city areas are surrounded by drugs, gangs, etc. There is a big problem with single parent families, kids are joining gangs at a young age because their family is none existent, and the cycle of poverty goes around and around but getting worse every single time.

How would anyone solve this? Well there are ways, but as no one gives a fuck, then nothing happens. Only people do give a fuck, but they're often fighting a lone battle and the govt won't get involved.

Here's a related example from West Virginia. There's a British TV chef called Jamie Oliver, he went to the West Virginia to a high school to try and change the eating habits in schools. Now, politicians have come up with this nice chart about eating and said you need this and that in the food, and out pops pizza. What the fuck? They're feeding their kids shit food because it's cheap, and the kid will get fat from it.

At first the people were just like "we don't need no Brit to tell us how to do things", then after a while they realized it was actually probably better.

Then they were like "well, you have to prove it can work, before we'll implement it, but we won't let you implement it, until you've proven it can work", ah, the circle "fuck off" argument.

Food is an important part of life for kids, surprisingly. And in the US people can't even be bothered to work together to try and get kids eating properly in schools. Half the people say "get food out of schools, it's not the govt's place to give food to anyone at all, ever", the other half are like "it's my fucking right to feed my kids shit day in day out, and I want them to eat shit at school".

And then you wonder how the fuck a country could have got itself into such a bad mess. And you realize, no one gives a fuck.

It's not the govt's responsibility.
It's not the parent's responsibility.
It's not the school's responsibility.

No, we have rights so we don't have to be responsible for anything. We have power so we don't have to be responsible for anything.

Then you come along and ask we what problems there are to solve.


Fuck me, where do I start?

The Chinese were treated badly when they came here. Japanese rounded up and put in concentration camps. Still, they managed to move on and lead successful lives, and they didn't get the preferential treatment that blacks have gotten over the last half century. Maybe the preferential treatment and getting breaks that no other group has had is why some blacks can't make. Just like when some kids get spoiled rotten instead of being allowed to stand alone on their own two feet.

Yep ...its a shame that White women and blacks had to be helped by AA while Japanese and Chinese didn't have to...right??? Oh wait...There were hardly any Asians in our colleges and univerities at all until after AA came alone...hmmmm thats mighty suspicious..mdontcha think?

 

[JQPublic1]

^^^^^add in Vietnamese "boat people" following 10 years of war. They were hated on, joked about. Now? Extremely Successful. Indians? Same.

No...not really...look again. Not all indians have Casinos...and the poorest Asians in America are from the so- called boat people.

 

[harmonica]

these blacks are being shot for being resisting/attacking criminals--in self defense
what don't you and these protesters understand about that?
they are not being shot because they are black

 

[monkrules]

They feel like they are being targeted...because they are.

African-Americans are 13% of the population of the United States, but commit 50% of the homicides and nearly 40% of the violent crimes.

If we assume an equal gender divide...nearly 40% of violent crimes and homicides are committed by SIX PERCENT of the population.

Again, when the witnesses identify a black male, or surveillance tapes show a black guy nearly 40% of the time, at 6% of the population, that's pretty fuckin' targeted.

I suppose law enforcement can waste their time and resources looking for a white guy instead...in the spirit of equality. Is that the liberal solution?

This is the factcheck from BBC Channel 4 to back up my statistics.

FactCheck: do black Americans commit more crime?

Yes, I understand this.

The question here is, why do black people commit more crimes?

Could it be that black people are more likely to be in poverty? Depending on who you listen to, it could be anywhere between like 20% and 30% of black people in poverty. But you have different levels of poverty, and you different levels of social issues, mostly inner city areas are more likely to produce criminals, and black people often live in large cities and they live in the poorer parts.

Detroit is the city (well things have changed quickly there, but based on these statistics) with the highest level of black population. It has 84.3% black population. Also Detroit has lost lots of industry. There are problems in the US with other places attracting businesses and getting tax breaks, and often it's going to hurt those people who are most in poverty.

Other larger cities with large black populations are the inner city places, Birmingham AL, Baltimore, etc etc.

Some people will say that it's blacks that have made these places bad, others might say that it's other reasons. The further you go back the more you see the problems, white people have been controlling things for so long, and black people have ended up with the menial jobs, and been kicked around by white people and made to feel like there's no hope. If two people went from a job in many places, who'd get the job? The white guy. So, these lack of hope can't have helped either. Everyone can make it in the US, but some people have to struggle against unfair bias far more and get frustrated and turn to crime in order to actually make it.

I don't buy it.

There are desperately poor areas in Appalachia and in various places in rural America. But we never see white people behaving the way blacks do: rioting, looting, whining, burning cars and buildings, destroying businesses, etc, etc. And you don't see them making excuses and blaming the whole world for their problems and struggles, either. There is much more at work here. It's a cultural problem as much as a poverty problem, imo.

The one thing that is crystal clear, is that making never-ending excuses for failure and lack of effort does not help.

You don't buy it? Does this mean it isn't true?

Like I said, inner city areas are more likely to end up with people committing crime.

White people probably know that they're at the bottom of the pile because of their own efforts. Black people might not see things like this. They might see racial prejudice as the reason for their position in society, regardless of whether this is true or not. And therefore they believe things are hopeless. Being in inner cities makes people's lives less personal, so they're more likely to commit crime because they don't have the fear of annoying their neighbors, or even being caught by the police.

This isn't necessarily about excuses. This is about seeing what's out there in the world.

The biggest problem is the US govt and many state govts don't want to solve societies issues, and that's the reason why the US has far more problems than Europe. However the right like to make things simple, by just blaming race.

The problem is that the Americas are the crime capital of the world, not Africa. Many countries in Africa have lower crimes rates than the USA, so is it just black people who are the problem? What about Honduras? Is that to blame on the black people too? No, there are hardly any there.

frigidweirdo said:
You don’t buy it? Does this mean it isn’t true?

Of course not, but I have a choice about what I believe. I was raised in an inner city and spent decades there, so my opinions are based on personal experience, not wishful thinking.

frigidweirdo said:
Like I said, inner city areas are more likely to end up with people committing crime.

Yes, like Baltimore, Detroit, New Orleans, etc, etc., all cities with large black populations in their inner cities? Yeah, I’d agree with that.

frigidweirdo said:
This isn’t necessarily about excuses. This is about seeing what’s out there in the world.

No, it’s not about “seeing what’s out there.” It’s about seeing what we choose to see “out there.”

frigidweirdo said:
White people probably know that they’re at the bottom of the pile because of their own efforts. Black people might not see things like this. They might see racial prejudice as the reason for their position in society, regardless of whether this is true or not. And therefore they believe things are hopeless. Being in inner cities makes people’s lives less personal, so they’re more likely to commit crime because they don’t have the fear of annoying their neighbors, or even being caught by the police.

If black people believe things are hopeless, then that will be true, for them. No one can make them believe in themselves, or in the value of getting an education, or in the value of hard work and thrift. These beliefs are either a part of a culture, or they are not. No one can change that but the people in question. That’s why I said most of the problems are cultural. That’s not to say there are not other issues involved. But if the cultural aspect is not addressed things will never improve, imo. And, only blacks can address their own cultural problems.

frigidweirdo said:
The biggest problem is the US govt and many state govts don’t want to solve societies issues, and that’s the reason why the US has far more problems than Europe. However the right like to make things simple, by just blaming race.

What “issues” is government supposed to solve. It IS NOT the business of government to do for people what they are NOT willing to do for themselves. And this has nothing to do with Europe.

frigidweirdo said:
The problem is that the Americas are the crime capital of the world, not Africa. Many countries in Africa have lower crimes rates than the USA, so is it just black people who are the problem? What about Honduras? Is that to blame on the black people too? No, there are hardly any there.

Blacks are thirteen percent of the population yet they commit an astronomical number of violent crimes (rape and murder, for instance) given the relative size of their population. I’m not an expert in crime statistics so I won’t get into a pissing contest with you about crime in Africa, or America. I couldn’t care less about Africa’s crime rates, or anything else for that matter.

But blacks DO commit loads of crime here, especially in the inner cities. But rather than make more excuses for their behavior, we should consider one huge factor that is always overlooked: the decision to commit a crime is a personal choice. IT IS A CHOICE. No one makes blacks loot and riot. No one make them gather together a mob and run through a mall stealing everything they can carry and attacking innocent people along the way. These are choices these people make for themselves. And they deserve to be sent to prison if they make those choices.

And here's one more thing that’s very interesting. Why is it that so many people immigrate here with nothing but the clothes on their backs, often not speaking English, having no friends, etc., yet through sheer hard work and determination THEY manage to carve out a life for themselves, earn a living, and succeed in modest, and sometimes huge ways. I’ve seen this over and over, with my own eyes, done by people I have known. One thing I’ve never heard these people do, is whine and moan, and blame everyone and everything for their own problems. These immigrants, legal and illegal, were far too busy working their asses off to complain and whine. And they had a secret weapon, too: a huge desire to work hard and improve their lives. They didn’t expect anyone to do anything for them. It’s a cultural thing.

Yes, you have a choice of what you want to believe. Now, do you want to "believe" or do you want to try and figure out the truth? That's really your choice. Most people go with believing because it's easier on the brain, it fits in with their agendas and they're happier.

Yes, if black people believe things are hopeless, then this is what it will be. The problem here is that other people can make this happen too. And we know it's been happening for a long time. Slavery kept black people "in their place", segregation also kept them "in their place". But what happened after this was often more subtle, but nonetheless it happened. Black people were refused jobs, black people were never shown houses in certain areas, black people would be in areas with less money being spent on them, spent on schools, and over time this has manifested itself into what exists today.

"What “issues” is government supposed to solve. It IS NOT the business of government to do for people what they are NOT willing to do for themselves. And this has nothing to do with Europe."

This statement just sums up everything that is wrong with the USA. The voters have been told to think in a certain manner and then they believe it, and the perpetuate the problems because they don't see any problem in these politicians doing nothing. This is one of the reasons why the US is imploding.

What issues is the govt supposed to solve? Social issues, making society a better place. Do you know why you wave flags and sing the national anthem. It's for social cohesion. But it didn't work that well. It keeps the peace to a certain extent, but that's falling apart as some black people see themselves as different, different because they're being treated differently.

As for it has nothing to do with Europe, I didn't say it had anything to do with Europe, what I did say was that if you look to Europe, the place that has the most first world countries, you'll see things working differently and you'll see less problems.

How do you solve problems without looking at those places that solve problems? Oh, right, you don't care because it's not the govt's job to do anything. They're just there to facilitate the rich getting richer and everyone else can fester in a pool of shit.

Okay, blacks are 13% of the country's population. Facts are facts, but you have to understand facts to understand what's going on.

For example in London they have statistics per borough, and I've looked at those statistics, a city where black people do worse than white people. However I found the crime went hand in hand with poverty in the city (it's easier to focus just on a city because poverty outside of cities manifests itself differently).

Now, the problem here is the lack of statistics. You're choosing to believe. I'm searching for the truth. I don't know everything about this topic, simply because I struggle to find the facts.

But when black people suffer around 25% poverty rates and white people suffer 7% poverty rates, and then you wonder why black people commit more crimes than white white people per capita.

Now, the biggest problem here is that black people commit MORE crimes per capita even when taking into account the poverty rate. Which begs the question WHY?

Well, the first problem is that two people in poverty might be earning very different amounts of money.
The second is that two people in poverty might be living in very different areas.

Many people born into inner city areas are surrounded by drugs, gangs, etc. There is a big problem with single parent families, kids are joining gangs at a young age because their family is none existent, and the cycle of poverty goes around and around but getting worse every single time.

How would anyone solve this? Well there are ways, but as no one gives a fuck, then nothing happens. Only people do give a fuck, but they're often fighting a lone battle and the govt won't get involved.

Here's a related example from West Virginia. There's a British TV chef called Jamie Oliver, he went to the West Virginia to a high school to try and change the eating habits in schools. Now, politicians have come up with this nice chart about eating and said you need this and that in the food, and out pops pizza. What the fuck? They're feeding their kids shit food because it's cheap, and the kid will get fat from it.

At first the people were just like "we don't need no Brit to tell us how to do things", then after a while they realized it was actually probably better.

Then they were like "well, you have to prove it can work, before we'll implement it, but we won't let you implement it, until you've proven it can work", ah, the circle "fuck off" argument.

Food is an important part of life for kids, surprisingly. And in the US people can't even be bothered to work together to try and get kids eating properly in schools. Half the people say "get food out of schools, it's not the govt's place to give food to anyone at all, ever", the other half are like "it's my fucking right to feed my kids shit day in day out, and I want them to eat shit at school".

And then you wonder how the fuck a country could have got itself into such a bad mess. And you realize, no one gives a fuck.

It's not the govt's responsibility.
It's not the parent's responsibility.
It's not the school's responsibility.

No, we have rights so we don't have to be responsible for anything. We have power so we don't have to be responsible for anything.

Then you come along and ask we what problems there are to solve.


Fuck me, where do I start?

Well, we've taken this thread far off topic, and we're going in circles. So this will be my last response to you.

I believe blacks deserve a fair shake at housing, jobs, education, etc. BUT, that ONLY means that blacks should have the opportunity to WORK for those things — the same way everyone else has to do. Life does NOT owe you, or anyone else, a living.

It's time to stop rioting, whining, complaining, stealing, committing crimes, etc., and to start acting like men. Work for the things you want. Support your own kids. Go to school and be grateful for the opportunity to do so, instead of whining for "safe places" and talking about some fucking "microaggressions". Get rid of the thugs in your neighborhoods. Cops can't live there 24/7 and why would they. They're blamed for every stinking move they make. It's a wonder ANY cop will go into a black neighborhood given the problems that come with it.

And as I said, many of the problems are due to cultural issues. No one can fix these except black folks themselves. These include developing a strong work ethic, a sense of self-reliance and self-responsibility, pride in our behavior, morals, living by the Ten Commandments would help. Everyone knows these things. At least, they should. But, until these kinds of things are honestly dealt with, the black community will be stuck spinning its wheels. This is a heavy lift, and no one can do it for them. It is their choice. Period.

 

[miketx]

People are tired of seeing people being shot to death in our police state.

Come take my guns.

Will my tank convince you to surrender them?

You don't have a tank loser. Come get them.