Lookin' For That Apology...

[Madeline]

it is exactly on point, 90% of the fed income taxes are paid by folks who use the fewest services rendered in specie or otherwsie.


You said the gov. does not have a right to gov. they don't pay for......well???

I find this incredibly short-sighted, Trajan. The middle class family benefits from the peace, security and sense of hope instilled in the poor by every social program we create -- at least those that don't go completely sideways. Is your family safer or happier is riots break out over food shortages?

Mine certainly is not.

But it begs the question as to WHY we are creating ANY programs for people for things they should be doing for themselves?

What is wrong with some of you? When are some of you going to realize that Government is NOT your friend and means to program YOU...with the boubles and trinquests they hand out to make YOU reliant upon THEM and other people?

-Friggin' SHAME-

We all rely on one another and on the government, The T. Even if you bought the Unabomber cabin, you'd have a reasonable expectation that government would protect your property rights, that no marauding bands of starving people would invade your home, that the environment would not be spoiled by business, etc.

I'll agree that many government social relief programs fail to hit their mark, and that designing an effective one is tough going. I might even agree it is impossible to hit the perfect mark between effective relief and waste. What I'll never agree to is that such admissions are a sufficient basis to support ending all such programs.

I dun want to live in a Third World country and I dun understand anyone who does.

 

[The T]

I have no dependents and no deductions of any consequence so I am currently paying at least as much in taxes as anyone in my bracket.

We're talking about borrowing money to pay for this newest stimulus package btw. You're for it, I'm against it.

And btw, since you are a government employee who depends on tax dollars for your living, you're the last person who should be going on about anyone wanting the government to take money from others to pay for his life.

You want the government to borrow your wages from the Chinese, the Saudis, and any or all of our friends and enemies.

Gee, imagine that. One more idiot leftist who can't tell the difference between a military member who earns his pay and benefits, and a welfare recipient who merely has to breathe.

So you're going to tell us that the only government spending you want to cut that would take money out of anyone's pockets is welfare spending?

lolol. And how much does that amount to?

Let me ask you this. If this country did do a meaningful spending reduction, what are you willing to sacrifice?

U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 8

 

[Dr.Traveler]

What is wrong with some of you? When are some of you going to realize that Government is NOT your friend ...

Of course Government is not your friend. What may surprise you is that Government is not your enemy either.

Government is a tool, created by man to accomplish very specific goals. Sometimes those goals are completely justifiable: clear water, clean air, secure borders, safe food. Sometimes those goals are pretty questionable.

Blaming government for your problems is like blaming guns for crime. The problem isn't the tool, it's the tools that operate it.

 

[Madeline]

Of course it makes sense. If spending is cut at the same time taxes are lowered, the debt would be paid off in short order.

What you don't want to do is cut spending -- because you'd lose a lot of Democrat voters.

Hello? I have been banging on spending cuts for weeks now, at least, Dave. But even if we slashed government spending to the bone, we STILL need tax increases to ward off the deficit-induced financial suicide we signed up for.

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

What a catchy slogan. So, IYO, we just whistle in the dark while the deficit looms over our heads and hope we never need borrow again?

Great plan, Dave.

 

[The T]

I find this incredibly short-sighted, Trajan. The middle class family benefits from the peace, security and sense of hope instilled in the poor by every social program we create -- at least those that don't go completely sideways. Is your family safer or happier is riots break out over food shortages?

Mine certainly is not.

But it begs the question as to WHY we are creating ANY programs for people for things they should be doing for themselves?

What is wrong with some of you? When are some of you going to realize that Government is NOT your friend and means to program YOU...with the boubles and trinquests they hand out to make YOU reliant upon THEM and other people?

-Friggin' SHAME-

We all rely on one another and on the government, The T. Even if you bought the Unabomber cabin, you'd have a reasonable expectation that government would protect your property rights, that no marauding bands of starving people would invade your home, that the environment would not be spoiled by business, etc.

I'll agree that many government social relief programs fail to hit their mark, and that designing an effective one is tough going. I might even agree it is impossible to hit the perfect mark between effective relief and waste. What I'll never agree to is that such admissions are a sufficient basis to support ending all such programs.

I dun want to live in a Third World country and I dun understand anyone who does.

Didn't READ ANY FARTHER.

 

[Madeline]

Ah. Offended by the Unabomber reference?

 

[daveman]

Hello? I have been banging on spending cuts for weeks now, at least, Dave. But even if we slashed government spending to the bone, we STILL need tax increases to ward off the deficit-induced financial suicide we signed up for.

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

What a catchy slogan. So, IYO, we just whistle in the dark while the deficit looms over our heads and hope we never need borrow again?

Great plan, Dave.

Good thing that's not what I'm advocating, huh?

 

[Madeline]

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

What a catchy slogan. So, IYO, we just whistle in the dark while the deficit looms over our heads and hope we never need borrow again?

Great plan, Dave.

Good thing that's not what I'm advocating, huh?

We cannot cut spending deeply enough or fast enough to address the deficit in time, Dave. The debt load we are carrying is equal to the GDP.

Increasing taxes is a necessity.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Of course it makes sense. If spending is cut at the same time taxes are lowered, the debt would be paid off in short order.

What you don't want to do is cut spending -- because you'd lose a lot of Democrat voters.

Hello? I have been banging on spending cuts for weeks now, at least, Dave. But even if we slashed government spending to the bone, we STILL need tax increases to ward off the deficit-induced financial suicide we signed up for.

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

This is not about 'prosperity'. This is about fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsiblity is not a stimulus program.

 

[Big Fitz]

These people voted for Nero because he played a mean fiddle and are asking for encores.

Although Minnesota has frozen over, Hell still remains above freezing. Therefore, no apologies forthcoming for something the left believes it did correctly.

Insanity I know, but they are finally seeing their goals of this nation's destruction accomplished. They're not about to stop or apologize now.

Actually, Fitz, you will find a few lefties in the thread who kinda suggested their displeasure with the President...and that's pretty much the honest response.

It's really difficult to outright say 'I was wrong.'

I know they're pissed at P-BO for slowing the revolution. Doesn't change my assessment one iota. Nor it's accurassy.

People with the intellectual integrity of a Kumbaya Folk Song Circle Jerk do not belong in power, nor their idols.

 

[The T]

Hello? I have been banging on spending cuts for weeks now, at least, Dave. But even if we slashed government spending to the bone, we STILL need tax increases to ward off the deficit-induced financial suicide we signed up for.

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

This is not about 'prosperity'. This is about fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsiblity is not a stimulus program.

So if that is true? Why don't the Statists in Government abide?

Blame Bush or Repupublicans solely for it in...

3...
2...
1...

 

[NYcarbineer]

Pay as you go has to work both ways. No spending without paying for it. No tax cuts without paying for them.

so NOW you're a believer in paygo?

I've advocated PAYGO since long before I was ever here.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Gee, imagine that. One more idiot leftist who can't tell the difference between a military member who earns his pay and benefits, and a welfare recipient who merely has to breathe.

So you're going to tell us that the only government spending you want to cut that would take money out of anyone's pockets is welfare spending?

lolol. And how much does that amount to?

Let me ask you this. If this country did do a meaningful spending reduction, what are you willing to sacrifice?

did you watch the you tube video NYC?

I have a computer issue from where I am today. I couldn't load it.

 

[Madeline]

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

This is not about 'prosperity'. This is about fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsiblity is not a stimulus program.

So if that is true? Why don't the Statists in Government abide?

Blame Bush or Repupublicans solely for it in...

3...
2...
1...

It is not all that important to me to affix blame, The T. We need solutions. My biggest complaint about the right these days is that it seems so many of you are distracted by petty concerns.....I feel as if we're rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[Big Fitz]

We're talking about borrowing money to pay for this newest stimulus package btw. You're for it, I'm against it.

If you are referring to QE2, yes.

If you are referring to the Bush Reduced Tax Brackets, it doesn't borrow anything. That is a lie to say it does. It maintains the status quo, and reduces nothing. It prevents a raise. This is akin to saying that when you go to a car dealership you budgeted for a 15k car. When you got there you found a 50k car that you loved more, but stayed with the original car you were going to purchase then claim to your wife you just saved 35k.

It's a damn lie to claim this, and reprehensible intellectual dishonesty.

 

[daveman]

What a catchy slogan. So, IYO, we just whistle in the dark while the deficit looms over our heads and hope we never need borrow again?

Great plan, Dave.

Good thing that's not what I'm advocating, huh?

We cannot cut spending deeply enough or fast enough to address the deficit in time, Dave. The debt load we are carrying is equal to the GDP.

Increasing taxes is a necessity.

Sure. Cripple the economy even further. Grand idea!

 

[daveman]

Hello? I have been banging on spending cuts for weeks now, at least, Dave. But even if we slashed government spending to the bone, we STILL need tax increases to ward off the deficit-induced financial suicide we signed up for.

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

This is not about 'prosperity'. This is about fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsiblity is not a stimulus program.

And the stimulus wasn't fiscally responsible, either.

[But let's look at the numbers. According to Recovery.gov, Obama has funded 675,841 jobs. Obama has also increased the debt by $3,219,617,798,657.

The math says that for every job credited to Obama, it's cost us $4,763,868.72.

Do you really want to keep defending that?

 

[Madeline]

Good thing that's not what I'm advocating, huh?

We cannot cut spending deeply enough or fast enough to address the deficit in time, Dave. The debt load we are carrying is equal to the GDP.

Increasing taxes is a necessity.

Sure. Cripple the economy even further. Grand idea!

There's pain ahead, Dave. How deep and for how long, we could debate, but serious pain is inevitable.

 

[Madeline]

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

This is not about 'prosperity'. This is about fiscal responsibility. Fiscal responsiblity is not a stimulus program.

And the stimulus wasn't fiscally responsible, either.

[But let's look at the numbers. According to Recovery.gov, Obama has funded 675,841 jobs. Obama has also increased the debt by $3,219,617,798,657.

The math says that for every job credited to Obama, it's cost us $4,763,868.72.

Do you really want to keep defending that?

The stimulus was not effective at restarting the economy, but it's likely it prevented even deeper deflation. Are you suggesting we'd have been better off without it?

If your complaint is too much money was wasted I dun think you'll find anyone to argue with.

 

[Big Fitz]

Hello? I have been banging on spending cuts for weeks now, at least, Dave. But even if we slashed government spending to the bone, we STILL need tax increases to ward off the deficit-induced financial suicide we signed up for.

You can't tax a nation into prosperity.

What a catchy slogan. So, IYO, we just whistle in the dark while the deficit looms over our heads and hope we never need borrow again?

Great plan, Dave.

All government ultimately fails. It was not until after FDR stopped "Stimulating" the economy and the war pushed the need for private sector production to grow to make products for our fighting men as well as infrastructure did this nation pull out of the great depression. 1920, same thing, government was cut 50% and the nation recovered and went into the roaring 20's in 18 months.

Taxation removes money from the private sector and consumption because it is taken away from anything that produces. Therefore every dollar removed is a dollar that shrinks the private sector which grows all economies and instead increases the burden on it. Ultimately, till government shrinks and is replaced by the private sector, this nation will continue to fail. Just like Cuba does, and the USSR, and Eastern Europe, and China. Great example, China. They killed 50 million to starvation during the 'glorious revolution' with silly ideas as making 'backyard steel', but when they turned to letting the capitalists go, suddenly they became an economic powerhouse.

Who'da thunk? Even those commies got it right: Capitalism works. Communism goes broke and starves.