Zone1 Mary--An Amazing Young Mother. Also All Of Us.

[SweetSue92]

Disclaimer: I come at Mary with a Protestant mindset, not Catholic. I won't be arguing that in this thread, thanks.

I read Luke 1-2 again yesterday as part of my Bible reading plan, and it strikes me what a remarkable young woman Mary was. An angel tells her, hey, you're gonna be pregnant; nevermind that you're a virgin. And she says basically, "Okay. I'm game."

So Mary conceives Jesus as a virgin. And even though this happened in her own body, she continues to ponder truths about her Son over and over. The shepherds come--she ponders. Meeting Simeon and Anna in the temple--more pondering. She and Joseph 'lose' Jesus in the temple when He is 12, and she's still pondering.

It's so human and relatable. Like all of us, she might have been bogged down in the responsibilities of day-to-day parenting. The cycle of crying baby--feeding--changing diapers...and then, OH YEAH, this is a very special baby!

The relatability of "Hey, where's Jesus? You don't have Him? I thought YOU had Him!" and then when He's discovered, Mary mildly chides Him. We don't see the Mary on her knees serenely praying, knowing God will never let Him stumble. IMO, we see us. A little frantic, maybe a little frustrated.

My takeaway is: do you sometimes "miss it", and need to ponder over and over? Well, consider Mary, who birthed Jesus. We are not alone.

 

[The Irish Ram]

She was just a little girl. About 14 years old when she was asked to give birth to the Savior of the world. God bless her. It could have meant her being stoned to death, but she never wavered.

 

[SweetSue92]

She was just a little girl. About 14 years old when she was asked to give birth to the Savior of the world. God bless her. It could have meant her being stoned to death, but she never wavered.

Agree that she was very young, but maybe about the equivalent of 19 years old now, in terms of marriageable age and maturity. Just want to clarify that she was young but not an inappropriate age when God chose her.

Generally speaking people did not live as long then, and married younger.

 

[Meriweather]

My takeaway is: do you sometimes "miss it", and need to ponder over and over? Well, consider Mary, who birthed Jesus.

Being Catholic, it is inevitable this will be from Catholic perspective, but also with no wish to argue, simply to ponder.

We start with The New Testament is hidden in the Old Testament; The Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament. Jesus' life (and therefore Mary's) is a recapitulation (summarizing and restarting the main points) of God's saving plan for the redemption of mankind.

It's a story of disobedience and obedience; the story of the fall of mankind and the rising of mankind. Both man and woman, through disobedience, brought death to the world. Through obedience both man and woman brought life to the world. While Eve (I wonder her age) gave a 'no' to obedience, Mary said yes. Catholicism notes four who were born/created without Original Sin: Adam. Eve. Mary. Jesus.

So much of my life is spent working with fourteen-year-old girls. They are amazing. Some remind me of Eve, others of Mary.

Obedience is an amazing part of the New Testament. We are told of Mary's obedience; of how twelve-year-old Jesus was obedient to his parents; how the man, Jesus, was obedient to the Father. The awesome power of obedience is worth reflecting on as well.

This brings us to the beginning of John's Gospel. Some see it as following the seven days of creation. On the seventh day, Jesus changed water into wine...the seventh day would become the Lord's day, where we eat bread and drink wine in memory of him. Mary had a part in this story as well. What was needed? (Do you see where John was heading with this?)

In reading John 2:4, there are two different translations, two different perspectives. One, is that Mary was out of line and Jesus put her firmly in her place. But other translations have Jesus saying, "Woman, what has this to do with us? My hour has not yet come." This is a phrase Jesus uses several times in his life. Woman. It is not only a title of respect, some believe that John deliberately uses the word 'woman' here as a reminder of Eve being the woman in the creation story. One translation is, "What has this to do with you?" In Biblical times, this could be used as a rebuke if the phrase was snapped at another. Yet, when no snap/rebuke was intended, it meant, "Let me handle this in my own way." Notice what Mary did. Her next act was not one of someone who had been rebuked. Her next act was to say to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you to do." (She let Jesus handle the situation in his own way.)

It comes the day for all of us mothers to step back and watch our children handle a major problem in their own way. I know how proud I was, so I can imagine how proud Jesus' mother was on that day.

 

[SweetSue92]

Being Catholic, it is inevitable this will be from Catholic perspective, but also with no wish to argue, simply to ponder.

We start with The New Testament is hidden in the Old Testament; The Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament. Jesus' life (and therefore Mary's) is a recapitulation (summarizing and restarting the main points) of God's saving plan for the redemption of mankind.

It's a story of disobedience and obedience; the story of the fall of mankind and the rising of mankind. Both man and woman, through disobedience, brought death to the world. Through obedience both man and woman brought life to the world. While Eve (I wonder her age) gave a 'no' to obedience, Mary said yes. Catholicism notes four who were born/created without Original Sin: Adam. Eve. Mary. Jesus.

So much of my life is spent working with fourteen-year-old girls. They are amazing. Some remind me of Eve, others of Mary.

Obedience is an amazing part of the New Testament. We are told of Mary's obedience; of how twelve-year-old Jesus was obedient to his parents; how the man, Jesus, was obedient to the Father. The awesome power of obedience is worth reflecting on as well.

This brings us to the beginning of John's Gospel. Some see it as following the seven days of creation. On the seventh day, Jesus changed water into wine...the seventh day would become the Lord's day, where we eat bread and drink wine in memory of him. Mary had a part in this story as well. What was needed? (Do you see where John was heading with this?)

In reading John 2:4, there are two different translations, two different perspectives. One, is that Mary was out of line and Jesus put her firmly in her place. But other translations have Jesus saying, "Woman, what has this to do with us? My hour has not yet come." This is a phrase Jesus uses several times in his life. Woman. It is not only a title of respect, some believe that John deliberately uses the word 'woman' here as a reminder of Eve being the woman in the creation story. One translation is, "What has this to do with you?" In Biblical times, this could be used as a rebuke if the phrase was snapped at another. Yet, when no snap/rebuke was intended, it meant, "Let me handle this in my own way." Notice what Mary did. Her next act was not one of someone who had been rebuked. Her next act was to say to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you to do." (She let Jesus handle the situation in his own way.)

It comes the day for all of us mothers to step back and watch our children handle a major problem in their own way. I know how proud I was, so I can imagine how proud Jesus' mother was on that day.

This entire post rests on Mary being sinless, which means there's nothing to say, sadly. Mary had to ponder in her heart over and over; Jesus Christ knew at 12 that He must be in "His Father's House"....there's the difference between sinless and not.

 

[Meriweather]

This entire post rests on Mary being sinless, which means there's nothing to say, sadly. Mary had to ponder in her heart over and over; Jesus Christ knew at 12 that He must be in "His Father's House"....there's the difference between sinless and not.

What is missed is that the entire post rests on the story of salvation, of fallen people and obedient people. Eve was one of the fallen, Mary a woman of obedience. John's Gospel mentions Mary twice, but not her name. In both places she is called 'Woman'.... as was Eve.

 

[SweetSue92]

What is missed is that the entire post rests on the story of salvation, of fallen people and obedient people. Eve was one of the fallen, Mary a woman of obedience. John's Gospel mentions Mary twice, but not her name. In both places she is called 'Woman'.... as was Eve.

We fundamentally differ on salvation and that's obvious.

 

[Meriweather]

Salvation: Liberation of humanity from sin and its consequences.
Redemption: The restoration of man from the bondage of sin to the liberty of the children of God through Christ.

How do you differ on this?

 

[ding]

Christians want to call muhammad a pedo, but god soul fucked a child lolz. Whatever.
These fairy tales, and how people still believe them, blow my mind.

Do you feel better now?

 

[TNHarley]

Agree that she was very young, but maybe about the equivalent of 19 years old now, in terms of marriageable age and maturity. Just want to clarify that she was young but not an inappropriate age when God chose her.

Generally speaking people did not live as long then, and married younger.

Since having sex with kids was fine back then, do you think god would impregnate another child, or do you think his morality evolved with ours? You know, maybe pick an adult this time?

 

[SweetSue92]

Since having sex with kids was fine back then, do you think god would impregnate another child, or do you think his morality evolved with ours? You know, maybe pick an adult this time?

One chance:

Do you just want to be mad at God and Christians or are you at all interested in discussing this?

 

[TNHarley]

One chance:

Do you just want to be mad at God and Christians or are you at all interested in discussing this?

Im not mad at anyone.
Yes, I would love to hear your answer to my question.

 

[Moonglow]

Disclaimer: I come at Mary with a Protestant mindset, not Catholic. I won't be arguing that in this thread, thanks.

I read Luke 1-2 again yesterday as part of my Bible reading plan, and it strikes me what a remarkable young woman Mary was. An angel tells her, hey, you're gonna be pregnant; nevermind that you're a virgin. And she says basically, "Okay. I'm game."

So Mary conceives Jesus as a virgin. And even though this happened in her own body, she continues to ponder truths about her Son over and over. The shepherds come--she ponders. Meeting Simeon and Anna in the temple--more pondering. She and Joseph 'lose' Jesus in the temple when He is 12, and she's still pondering.

It's so human and relatable. Like all of us, she might have been bogged down in the responsibilities of day-to-day parenting. The cycle of crying baby--feeding--changing diapers...and then, OH YEAH, this is a very special baby!

The relatability of "Hey, where's Jesus? You don't have Him? I thought YOU had Him!" and then when He's discovered, Mary mildly chides Him. We don't see the Mary on her knees serenely praying, knowing God will never let Him stumble. IMO, we see us. A little frantic, maybe a little frustrated.

My takeaway is: do you sometimes "miss it", and need to ponder over and over? Well, consider Mary, who birthed Jesus. We are not alone.

Literature has a way of making a sin work out.

 

[Moonglow]

Salvation: Liberation of humanity from sin and its consequences.
Redemption: The restoration of man from the bondage of sin to the liberty of the children of God through Christ.

How do you differ on this?

Mostly it was a move to democratize a religion controlled by priest that kept the people from having a direct relationship with God, no longer did one need an interpreter or representative of God.

 

[SweetSue92]

Im not mad at anyone.
Yes, I would love to hear your answer to my question.

When your average life expectancy is 75-78 years, it makes sense to consider teenagers "children" until they are 18 or so. It makes no sense to do that when the average life expectancy was between 30-35.

And they didn't. Children didn't attend school for the most part; they learned from parents. As soon as girls hit puberty and had their first period they were considered marriageable.

I'm not saying that's right in the 21st century--it's not. But nor was it wrong in the first century.

PS IMO we infantilize our children for far too long. College age ADULTS having mommy and daddy call in to argue grades, etc. That's a failing on our part. In 1 AD they might have truncated childhood but now we extend it far too long.

 

[SweetSue92]

Christians want to call muhammad a pedo, but god soul fucked a child lolz. Whatever.
These fairy tales, and how people still believe them, blow my mind.

Is that also how God created Adam?

Or can He create anyway He wants, since He's God?

 

[SweetSue92]

Salvation: Liberation of humanity from sin and its consequences.
Redemption: The restoration of man from the bondage of sin to the liberty of the children of God through Christ.

How do you differ on this?

They are the same. Salvation/Redemption is individual and not universal.

 

[SweetSue92]

Since having sex with kids was fine back then, do you think god would impregnate another child, or do you think his morality evolved with ours? You know, maybe pick an adult this time?

To the second part of your question:

It is finished. Jesus Christ is the last and completely perfect sacrifice.

 

[hadit]

Disclaimer: I come at Mary with a Protestant mindset, not Catholic. I won't be arguing that in this thread, thanks.

I read Luke 1-2 again yesterday as part of my Bible reading plan, and it strikes me what a remarkable young woman Mary was. An angel tells her, hey, you're gonna be pregnant; nevermind that you're a virgin. And she says basically, "Okay. I'm game."

So Mary conceives Jesus as a virgin. And even though this happened in her own body, she continues to ponder truths about her Son over and over. The shepherds come--she ponders. Meeting Simeon and Anna in the temple--more pondering. She and Joseph 'lose' Jesus in the temple when He is 12, and she's still pondering.

It's so human and relatable. Like all of us, she might have been bogged down in the responsibilities of day-to-day parenting. The cycle of crying baby--feeding--changing diapers...and then, OH YEAH, this is a very special baby!

The relatability of "Hey, where's Jesus? You don't have Him? I thought YOU had Him!" and then when He's discovered, Mary mildly chides Him. We don't see the Mary on her knees serenely praying, knowing God will never let Him stumble. IMO, we see us. A little frantic, maybe a little frustrated.

My takeaway is: do you sometimes "miss it", and need to ponder over and over? Well, consider Mary, who birthed Jesus. We are not alone.

Agreed that her life didn't come with an instruction manual. She didn't know, although Jesus apparently thought she should have, that Jesus would be found in the temple, all she knew was He was missing. Mary's life, as is the case with other Biblical figures, illustrates a powerful truth. When God singles out a person to do something very important, that person often lives a very difficult life.

Mary, ordinary woman, chosen to bear God in the flesh - watched her son be ostracized by much of society, then violently and brutally executed by the state. Just a note on her sinlessness, if she was truly sinless, there would be no need for Jesus to even become human and die, because it would be possible to stand justified before God on our own efforts. We can't.
Sampson, given supernatural strength to rescue the nation of Israel - blinded by his enemies and killed in his final act.
Most of the prophets whose writings are in the Bible - stoned, cut in half, executed in cruel ways, etc.
John the Baptist - beheaded in prison because of a violent woman who pimped out her daughter.
Jonah, chosen to preach to Ninevah - thrown into the sea in the middle of a violent storm.

The point is, with great blessing often comes great hardship.

 

[TNHarley]

When your average life expectancy is 75-78 years, it makes sense to consider teenagers "children" until they are 18 or so. It makes no sense to do that when the average life expectancy was between 30-35.

And they didn't. Children didn't attend school for the most part; they learned from parents. As soon as girls hit puberty and had their first period they were considered marriageable.

I'm not saying that's right in the 21st century--it's not. But nor was it wrong in the first century.

PS IMO we infantilize our children for far too long. College age ADULTS having mommy and daddy call in to argue grades, etc. That's a failing on our part. In 1 AD they might have truncated childhood but now we extend it far too long.

So you didnt answer my question. If god decided to "impregnate" someone else, would he choose a child again? Do you think his morality evolved(obviously much better) with ours?