Mass Killings: The Blame

[Coyote]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

Nonsense. for that to be true we would see school slaughters in every country in the civilised world. Access to machine guns is the difference.

"Access to machine guns is the difference."

You need to get educated on this, in America they cannot just go and buy a machine gun, you not knowing anything about guns in general probably do not even know the difference between an AR-15 and an M&P380.

What to know about machine gun laws in the US

But they can legally and easily purchase bump stocks that can make a gun fully automatic.

 

[Deno]

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some other dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

True...but what about the others? If he hadn't had those kind of guns could he have killed as many people as quickly before someone took him down?

The thing is everyone argues as if it's "ban all guns" or "unrestricted guns". Isn't there some common sense gun control measures that might help prevent some of these things? But no one will even consider it because they are stuck on the extremes...

I can agree with that. We do need common ground and some viable solutions. Not just the 2 extremes.
I am not sure how to solve things to be honest.

As for banning all guns, the ones that really want them will still get them. This is a catch 22 at best IMO.
I do not think this country will ever ban guns, and I believe in the "right to bear", but somewhere along the line there has to be some sort of responsibility. That guy did the killing. HE is responsible for it...not the NRA IMO. Matters not if it was 2 or 22. He murdered. That is where you start.

The Leftists blame the NRA because the Leftists like with most things they are using all of this for political purposes, they have essentially only one goal and that's to ban guns that is their end game the complete disarmament of the whole American population. You have 300 million guns, those who go on these shooting sprees in proportion to responsible gun owners is a minority, yet the Leftists want to remove ALL guns from the population not just assault weapons their goal is the removal of hand guns also.

The NRA is a HUGELY INFLUENTIAL political lobby that refuses to consider even the most minimal gun laws, such as banning gun bump stocks, and are working to undo what few gun restrictions we have such as allowing people to carry guns in bars or making silencers legal or allowing of age high school kids to carry guns in school.

As a leftist I do not support banning all guns, not at all. But there is no reason for the average citizen to have military grade weaponry and armor peircing ammo. There is a common sense area between the extremes represented by NRA on one side and the most rabid leftists on the other.

As long as liberals use the full force

of the United States Government to go

after their political opponents there will

be many that refuse to give up their guns.

 

[Coyote]

This has nothing to do with guns and all to do with society. So where was the catch net? The school, counselors, fellow students, FBI, all knew this person was in deep trouble, yet no one did anything, finally the twig snapped. He was crying out for attention and those that could have helped swept him under the rug. So who is to blame, a tool, in this case a gun, or society and all its programs and failed policies enacted to prevent this from happening.

You are correct they focus completely on the gun and ignore the root cause of most of these happenings, many of these shooters have mental health problems, many also are on the wrong type of medication, the mental health system not just in America but in a lot of Western nations needs to be better structured and also society in general needs to become more aware of mental health in general there is massive ignorance about this issue.

I agree all of those need attention along with gun control. All cards on table.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

What is the explanation….seems to be more and more mass killings….

1. Guns???

If guns kill people, I guess pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat.
No….it’s not inanimate objects that are the ultimate cause.

….there were lots of guns in earlier times….the .45 cal handgun was available….it’s called the 1911 because it was developed in 1911…and it has been ubiquitous since World War I.

In the 1990s with a handgun ban in effect, Wash DC had the highest murder rate in Western Civilization, ….and now you can own guns legally, and the homicide rate has declined.



2. Well, there was the St Valentine’s Day Massacre….and the Texas Tower…but, today we have incidents like the school shooting, and I heard on the news that Chicago sends police to funerals, where people are shooting others who they claim caused the the death they were memorializing.

And this….
“6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.”
6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.


It’s practically commonplace today.


But, no… not the availability of guns….it’s the degradation of the culture.

It's something else.....something that didn't begin with the start of this nation.

Big part is we live in a society of broken families (divorce rates...thanks 1970’s) and parents that don’t communicate with their kids. Also, kids that don’t communicate with each other unless it’s over Facebook...detached...informal. When is the last time you got your child to read a book? Do research project without spellcheck and copy and paste? Kids are fragile emotionally and lazy mentally. We live in a society of “Give me convenience or give me death.” “I wanted an A on that report (even though I didn’t earn it) now my mom and dad will call the teacher and chew their ass out.” “My fast food was late. I’m gonna cuss out the staff and post it on Snapchat.” Finally the classic...”Where’s my participation trophy?” Well...we live in a broken society...the burbs are broken.

You blame the kids for a society they had no part in forming.
Seriously ?

 

[Wry Catcher]

What is the explanation….seems to be more and more mass killings….

1. Guns???

If guns kill people, I guess pencils misspell words, cars drive drunk, and spoons make people fat.
No….it’s not inanimate objects that are the ultimate cause.

….there were lots of guns in earlier times….the .45 cal handgun was available….it’s called the 1911 because it was developed in 1911…and it has been ubiquitous since World War I.

In the 1990s with a handgun ban in effect, Wash DC had the highest murder rate in Western Civilization, ….and now you can own guns legally, and the homicide rate has declined.



2. Well, there was the St Valentine’s Day Massacre….and the Texas Tower…but, today we have incidents like the school shooting, and I heard on the news that Chicago sends police to funerals, where people are shooting others who they claim caused the the death they were memorializing.

And this….
“6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.”
6 dead in 'calculated' shooting at backyard party in Pa.


It’s practically commonplace today.


But, no… not the availability of guns….it’s the degradation of the culture.

It's something else.....something that didn't begin with the start of this nation.

Guns kill people, guns were developed to kill people and other living things. That said I want to give credit to PoliticalChic for her fine expository discussion of guns and empathy; clearly she favors guns over people, since Empathy was not noticed in her first, and only honest post; wherein she made an unexpressed admission that she is also a Callous Conservative (as well as a bloviating hack and narcissistic troll).

 

[Marion Morrison]

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

Nonsense. for that to be true we would see school slaughters in every country in the civilised world. Access to machine guns is the difference.

"Access to machine guns is the difference."

You need to get educated on this, in America they cannot just go and buy a machine gun, you not knowing anything about guns in general probably do not even know the difference between an AR-15 and an M&P380.

What to know about machine gun laws in the US

But they can legally and easily purchase bump stocks that can make a gun fully automatic.

Not really automatic. Accuracy suffers hugely with bump stocks, they're pretty gimmicky.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

Nonsense. for that to be true we would see school slaughters in every country in the civilised world. Access to machine guns is the difference.

"Access to machine guns is the difference."

You need to get educated on this, in America they cannot just go and buy a machine gun, you not knowing anything about guns in general probably do not even know the difference between an AR-15 and an M&P380.

What to know about machine gun laws in the US

But they can legally and easily purchase bump stocks that can make a gun fully automatic.

Except it's not practical. Guns are designed to operate at a certain temperature. Bump stocks cause the gun to jam because it melts the barrel or parts inside.

To my knowledge, we only had one mass shooting where bump stocks were used, and again, it jammed the guns of the shooter.

 

[PoliticalChic]

The Left isn't opposed to school shootings....they're opposed to the second amendment.

Let's prove it....

There exists a plan that has been proven ....PROVEN...100% effective.​

"In 1974, Israel endured the Ma’alot Massacre in which “Palestinian” terrorists took 115 people hostage at Netiv Meir Elementary School. Twenty-two children and three others were killed and 68 injured. Israel now requires schools with 100 or more students to have a guard posted. The civilian police force handles the entire security system of all schools from kindergarten through college. The Ministry of Education funds shelters and fences, reinforces school buses, and hires and trains guards."
Lawrence Meyers - Israel Figured Out How to Prevent School Shootings 40 Years Ago-It's Time the US Followed Suit


From 2012:
"NRA: Guns in schools would protect students
...put armed law enforcement agents in every American school, insisting that guns in schools -- not tougher gun laws -- would most effectively protect children from school shootings."
NRA: Guns in schools would protect students





Did I mention that the Left isn't opposed to school shootings....they're opposed to the second amendment.

 

[Coyote]

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

Nonsense. for that to be true we would see school slaughters in every country in the civilised world. Access to machine guns is the difference.

"Access to machine guns is the difference."

You need to get educated on this, in America they cannot just go and buy a machine gun, you not knowing anything about guns in general probably do not even know the difference between an AR-15 and an M&P380.

What to know about machine gun laws in the US

But they can legally and easily purchase bump stocks that can make a gun fully automatic.

Not really automatic. Accuracy suffers hugely with bump stocks, they're pretty gimmicky.

I think when you are shooting into a mass of people with a fully automatic weapon...accuracy becomes irrelevant.

 

[Coyote]

Schools should not HAVE to be high security areas.

 

[Coyote]

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

Nonsense. for that to be true we would see school slaughters in every country in the civilised world. Access to machine guns is the difference.

"Access to machine guns is the difference."

You need to get educated on this, in America they cannot just go and buy a machine gun, you not knowing anything about guns in general probably do not even know the difference between an AR-15 and an M&P380.

What to know about machine gun laws in the US

But they can legally and easily purchase bump stocks that can make a gun fully automatic.

Except it's not practical. Guns are designed to operate at a certain temperature. Bump stocks cause the gun to jam because it melts the barrel or parts inside.

To my knowledge, we only had one mass shooting where bump stocks were used, and again, it jammed the guns of the shooter.

Yet in the process how many people was he able to kill and injure?

 

[Marion Morrison]

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

Nonsense. for that to be true we would see school slaughters in every country in the civilised world. Access to machine guns is the difference.

"Access to machine guns is the difference."

You need to get educated on this, in America they cannot just go and buy a machine gun, you not knowing anything about guns in general probably do not even know the difference between an AR-15 and an M&P380.

What to know about machine gun laws in the US

But they can legally and easily purchase bump stocks that can make a gun fully automatic.

Not really automatic. Accuracy suffers hugely with bump stocks, they're pretty gimmicky.

I think when you are shooting into a mass of people with a fully automatic weapon...accuracy becomes irrelevant.

ahh, I never gave that much thought, and don't care to jump down that rabbit hole.

 

[Marion Morrison]

Schools should not HAVE to be high security areas.

I agree. Let's put the 10 Commandments, Golden rule and paddling back in school and I bet they won't have to be, because people will be self-governing.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

"There is no left in America."
Gads, you're an imbecile.

"CIA Director Once Voted for Communist Presidential Candidate

CIA Director John Brennan voted for the Communist Party candidate in the 1976 presidential election.

Brennan told a congressional panel last week that he "froze" while taking a CIA polygraph test four years later when the questioner asked him if he had ever worked with or for a group that was "dedicated to overthrowing the U.S.," CNN reported.

"This was back in 1980, and I thought back to a previous election where I voted, and I voted for the Communist Party candidate," Brennan said at a panel discussion regarding diversity in the intelligence community during the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation’s annual conference."
CIA Director Once Voted for Communist Presidential Candidate

Here is the correct formulation of that idea:
While there certainly is a Far Left in America.....

...there is no Far Right.

Is that it ?

I only state facts.

You post selective facts which, on reflection, look ridiculous.

Disprove them because frankly you don't have any credibility. Your word (like everyone else's) is shit.

And during this so called Golden Age you shot two Kennedys,MLK,Reagan and John Lennon

10. Before Liberals/Democrats controlled what we call ‘the culture,’ we lived “in a time in America when right and wrong was more starkly defined, where expectations about behavior were clear, and wickedness hadn’t been normalized.


Those who have been so busy destroying the moral backstops in our culture won’t want to have this conversation. They’ll do what they do -- mock the truth.

Even thirty years ago, the culture still had invisible restraints developed over centuries. Those restraints, those leveling commonalities, were the target of a half-century of attack by the freewheeling counterculture that has now become the dominant replacement culture.

The high school kids who shot rifles in school in 1985 were taught right and wrong. They were taught what to do with their rifle in school, and what not to do. If they got out of line, all the other students and the coach would have come down on them hard. There were no safe spaces, and that was a good thing.

Culture is a powerful force for good. When good behavior is normalized and deviant destructive behavior is ostracized, shamed, and marginalized, you get more good behavior.” Flashback 30 Years: When Guns Were in Schools ... and Nothing Happened




"...the culture still had invisible restraints developed over centuries."

David Mamet put it this way:
" This is the great contribution of our Judeo-Christian foundation to Western civilization. The principles of justice are laid down in the Torah and the Gospels, and implemented through human actions memorialized in judicial codes.

The written laws and rules are codifications of the unwritten ones worked out over millennia as the result of human interactions and experience."


Bolsheviks, Liberals, Socialists....destroyed this.

And during this so called Golden Age you shot two Kennedys,MLK,Reagan and John Lennon. America was born out of gun violence, the legacy continues to this day.

The political assassinations you Europeans committed during the last century makes your statement seem a little less effective as a comparison don't you think?

I don't think I'd be bragging about how much better Europe was during the last century.

*****CHUCKLE*****

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some others dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

Nonsense. for that to be true we would see school slaughters in every country in the civilised world. Access to machine guns is the difference.

"Access to machine guns is the difference."

You need to get educated on this, in America they cannot just go and buy a machine gun, you not knowing anything about guns in general probably do not even know the difference between an AR-15 and an M&P380.

What to know about machine gun laws in the US

But they can legally and easily purchase bump stocks that can make a gun fully automatic.

Except it's not practical. Guns are designed to operate at a certain temperature. Bump stocks cause the gun to jam because it melts the barrel or parts inside.

To my knowledge, we only had one mass shooting where bump stocks were used, and again, it jammed the guns of the shooter.

Yet in the process how many people was he able to kill and injure?

I would say if he didn't have that bump stock, the results would probably have been the same. It may even have been worse since he wouldn't have had to switch weapons so frequently.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Schools should not HAVE to be high security areas.

I agree. Let's put the 10 Commandments, Golden rule and paddling back in school and I bet they won't have to be, because people will be self-governing.

Which do Leftists hate more, guns or religion???

 

[postman]

Schools should not HAVE to be high security areas.

I agree. Let's put the 10 Commandments, Golden rule and paddling back in school and I bet they won't have to be, because people will be self-governing.

Which do Leftists hate more, guns or religion???

Trump spends most of his time at Mar-a-lago. He's practically a Florida resident. So I blame Trump for the school shootings 40 miles from his southern white house.

 

[Damaged Eagle]

Guns make it easier to kill a whole lot of people very fast.

Also save a bunch of people very fast.

Doesn't seem to work that way very often...

NRA/Gun Proponent's answer to every mass shooting: more guns, less restriction. We've seen decades of deregulation to what result? Increased mass shootings.

The latest shooting could have been avoided if the ball wasn't dropped. He SAID he was going to do it. Law enforcement were at his residence 39 times! HE killed the people, and yes, some other dropped the ball on him too. What some do not seem to get it that if he didn't have guns, he would have done this with something else if he was going to do it.

True...but what about the others? If he hadn't had those kind of guns could he have killed as many people as quickly before someone took him down?

The thing is everyone argues as if it's "ban all guns" or "unrestricted guns". Isn't there some common sense gun control measures that might help prevent some of these things? But no one will even consider it because they are stuck on the extremes...

Probably because it isn't the firearms?

If the "assault" weapons, and I use that term loosely, are banned people who want them will still get them through the black market. Whether that means importing them illegally across the border or someone making them in their machine shop..

Where do we go from there?

Build more walls and make it illegal for a person to have a privately owned machine shop?

*****SMILE*****

 

[Marion Morrison]

Common sense solution, one in tune with the way this country was founded.

 

[Coyote]

Common sense solution, one in tune with the way this country was founded.

When this country was founded there were no weapons like we hav e today. Should we legalize nukes?