McDonald's drive-thru: Let us play with FAMILY-GUN!? 12yr-old DEAD by own hands! Thanks, Again, NRA!

[2aguy]

Only in the USA.

Only in the USA???
Hmmm. Well, in various areas of Africa, you have "child soldiers" carrying AK-47's and killing people. In Afghanistan and tribal areas of Pakistan, you have armed kids who will kill you in the name of Allah. Gun incidents occur in those and other nations as well, we just don't get the statistics from such nations.
The child you speak of, had an irresponsible parent. When I was a kid, I learned not only how to hunt, but about the dangers of firearms and the guns were locked up. The NRA teaches "gun safety," which includes the fact that firearms should have trigger-locks or be in gun-safes if not in use. I put in 23 years in the military, am very familiar with many types of firearms and with the exception of my Glock-30, all others are locked in my gun-safe, no one knows the combination but me and the Glock is on my person. My daughter has her own pistol and has her own safe.
As I've said in other posts, there are approximately 300 million firearms legally owned by approximately 80+ million private citizens and almost all of those 80+ million firearms owners are responsible and no threat to you. There will always be some idiot that doesn't take ownership seriously and thankfully, they are in the "extreme" minority.

You don't have to go that far.....Mexican drug cartels, just south of our border, recruit children....

 

[JoeB131]

No...I gave you the link to his redo study...and I gave you a link as to why that study is still wrong......

Except his redo study validated his original work.

and it's still right.

 

[2aguy]

No...I gave you the link to his redo study...and I gave you a link as to why that study is still wrong......

Except his redo study validated his original work.

and it's still right.

You mean except for changing the 43 times to 2.7....you mean except for that...right? Some might call that a real fuck up....and he still didn't correct for the biased sample group he used....moron.

 

[JoeB131]

You mean except for changing the 43 times to 2.7....you mean except for that...right? Some might call that a real fuck up....and he still didn't correct for the biased sample group he used....moron.

Not what he said, but never mind.

Kellerman Stands... I know it hurts your feelings, but guns are dangerous to the people who live with them.

 

[2aguy]

You mean except for changing the 43 times to 2.7....you mean except for that...right? Some might call that a real fuck up....and he still didn't correct for the biased sample group he used....moron.

Not what he said, but never mind.

Kellerman Stands... I know it hurts your feelings, but guns are dangerous to the people who live with them.

No...they are dangerous to violent people who also abuse alcohol, drugs and have repeated contacts with the police......the real indicators of violence in the home.......


Public Health and Gun Control: A Review



Since at least the mid-1980s, Dr. Kellermann (and associates), whose work had been heavily-funded by the CDC, published a series of studies purporting to show that persons who keep guns in the home are more likely to be victims of homicide than those who don¹t.

In a 1986 NEJM paper, Dr. Kellermann and associates, for example, claimed their "scientific research" proved that defending oneself or one¹s family with a firearm in the home is dangerous and counter productive, claiming "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder."8

In a critical review and now classic article published in the March 1994 issue of the Journal of the Medical Association of Georgia (JMAG), Dr. Edgar Suter, Chairman of Doctors for Integrity in Policy Research (DIPR), found evidence of "methodologic and conceptual errors," such as prejudicially truncated data and the listing of "the correct methodology which was described but never used by the authors."5

Moreover, the gun control researchers failed to consider and underestimated the protective benefits of guns.

Dr. Suter writes: "The true measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives and medical costs saved, the injuries prevented, and the property protected ‹ not the burglar or rapist body count.

Since only 0.1 - 0.2 percent of defensive uses of guns involve the death of the criminal, any study, such as this, that counts criminal deaths as the only measure of the protective benefits of guns will expectedly underestimate the benefits of firearms by a factor of 500 to 1,000."5

In 1993, in his landmark and much cited NEJM article (and the research, again, heavily funded by the CDC), Dr. Kellermann attempted to show again that guns in the home are a greater risk to the victims than to the assailants.4 Despite valid criticisms by reputable scholars of his previous works (including the 1986 study), Dr. Kellermann ignored the criticisms and again used the same methodology.

He also used study populations with disproportionately high rates of serious psychosocial dysfunction from three selected state counties, known to be unrepresentative of the general U.S. population.

For example,

53 percent of the case subjects had a history of a household member being arrested,

31 percent had a household history of illicit drug use, 32 percent had a household member hit or hurt in a family fight, and

17 percent had a family member hurt so seriously in a domestic altercation that prompt medical attention was required.
Moreover, both the case studies and control groups in this analysis had a very high incidence of financial instability.

In fact, in this study, gun ownership, the supposedly high risk factor for homicide was not one of the most strongly associated factors for being murdered.

Drinking, illicit drugs, living alone, history of family violence, living in a rented home were all greater individual risk factors for being murdered than a gun in the home. One must conclude there is no basis to apply the conclusions of this study to the general population.

All of these are factors that, as Dr. Suter pointed out, "would expectedly be associated with higher rates of violence and homicide."5

It goes without saying, the results of such a study on gun homicides, selecting this sort of unrepresentative population sample, nullify the authors' generalizations, and their preordained, conclusions can not be extrapolated to the general population.

Moreover, although the 1993 New England Journal of Medicine study purported to show that the homicide victims were killed with a gun ordinarily kept in the home, the fact is that as Kates and associates point out 71.1 percent of the victims were killed by assailants who did not live in the victims¹ household using guns presumably not kept in that home.6

 

[JoeB131]

No...they are dangerous to violent people who also abuse alcohol, drugs and have repeated contacts with the police......the real indicators of violence in the home.......

Yet oddly, all those countries that ban guns don't have these problems with gun violence, even though they have drugs and alcohol.

AMAZING.

Seriously, dude, you are like the scientist who cuts all the legs off a frog, yell "Jump" and then concludes a frog with no legs is deaf.

 

[2aguy]

No...they are dangerous to violent people who also abuse alcohol, drugs and have repeated contacts with the police......the real indicators of violence in the home.......

Yet oddly, all those countries that ban guns don't have these problems with gun violence, even though they have drugs and alcohol.

AMAZING.

Seriously, dude, you are like the scientist who cuts all the legs off a frog, yell "Jump" and then concludes a frog with no legs is deaf.

You mean Britain and Australia, where their gun crime rates are going up...while ours are going down? They both banned and confiscated guns...and their gun crime rates are going up...Sweden not only has an increasing gun crime problem..they also have criminals throwing hand grenades at each other.....I imagine those are banned in Sweden...don't you think?

and the gun crime rates are going up....as their society fails to civilize their young males...

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Moron...I gave you his actual study...where he changed the number......I gave you a link and a quote.....moron.

Actually, you took one quote out of context and pretended it said what it didn't say.

The 43 number stands and Kellerman has never taken it back, ever.

Is that why is new study says 2 and a half cause he never took it back, you are retarded.

 

[blackhawk]

You guys really are morons blaming the NRA for the actions of irresponsible gun owners is like blaming Automotive Safety Council for the actions of irresponsible car owners.

 

[JoeB131]

You mean Britain and Australia, where their gun crime rates are going up...while ours are going down?

No, I mean where theirs is minor and our is still horrific.

I'd rather have it increase from 1 to 2 than decrease from 11K to 10.5K.

 

[peach174]

You guys really are morons blaming the NRA for the actions of irresponsible gun owners is like blaming Automotive Safety Council for the actions of irresponsible car owners.

I agree with you.
That is the result of group thinking rather than individual responsibility.

 

[kwc57]

If only there was a solution to this senseless slaughter ?

NRA tells me to buy more semi-auto AR-15's.
SO you/we/I can massively kill more humans
in less time.

BULLSHIT! Produce evidence that they TELL people to buy guns. Your ignorance just exposed that you're talking out of your ass about something you feel instead of know. You're a liar.

 

[Brain357]

Another day and more cops shot.
3 women killed, 3 cops injured in barricade incident


The suspect, Lance Smith, 49, who police said has seven legal guns registered to his name, was heard saying, "I will not be taken without a fight," Detroit Police Chief James Craig said at a news conference this morning.

Only in the USA.

 

[2aguy]

Another day and more cops shot.
3 women killed, 3 cops injured in barricade incident


The suspect, Lance Smith, 49, who police said has seven legal guns registered to his name, was heard saying, "I will not be taken without a fight," Detroit Police Chief James Craig said at a news conference this morning.

Only in the USA.

And? You anti gunners tell us you don't want all of our guns.....so had this guy only been allowed revolvers and a bolt action rifle, the outcome would have been the same......so the truth is, you are lying.....you will not be happy with some of our guns...you will push these crimes in order to get all of the guns....

And while you post this...I will balance the ledger with the truth.....each year Americans use their guns to stop violent criminals, like this guy, 1,500,000 times a year....according to bill clinton and barak obama.....guns in this country save more lives than they are used to take....by criminals that people like you keep letting out of jail. If you were serious about stopping gun crime, you wouldn't let gun criminals out of jail, over and over again...so your complaint against law abiding gun owners is a lie.....you just want the guns...

 

[2aguy]

Another day and more cops shot.
3 women killed, 3 cops injured in barricade incident


The suspect, Lance Smith, 49, who police said has seven legal guns registered to his name, was heard saying, "I will not be taken without a fight," Detroit Police Chief James Craig said at a news conference this morning.

Only in the USA.

And the truth....when only the government and police have guns.....the murder of innocent people is much higher....

What happens when unarmed people are attacked by an enemy with guns....the death toll from government murder is higher than all of our criminal murder combined.....yet you don't care about that kind of murder........the real death toll.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-in-gun-free-nations/?utm_term=.a687288286d7

Consider, for example, some of the deadliest mass shootings of the 20th century. As soon as the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union began on June 22, 1941, special SS units called Einsatzgruppen were deployed for mass killings. All the Jews or Gypsies (also known as Roma) in a village would be assembled and marched out of town. Then they would all be shot at once. (Yehuda Bauer, “Jewish Resistance in the Ukraine and Belarus during the Holocaust,” in Jewish Resistance Against the Nazis, Patrick Henry ed. [D. C.: Catholic University of America Press, 2014], pp. 485-93.)

Within a year, the 3,000 Einsatzgruppen, aided by several thousand helpers from the German police and military, had murdered about 1 million people, concentrating on small towns in formerly Soviet territory. (Hillary Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial, 1945–1958 [Cambridge, U. K.: Cambridge Univ. Pr., 2009], pp. 4–8; Reuben Ainsztein, Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Eastern Europe [London: Elek Books, 1974], pp. 222–25.) Einsatzgruppen mass shootings took place not only in today’s Russia but also in nations that the Soviet Communists had taken over, and which were then over-run by the Nazis: eastern Poland (taken by Stalin pursuant to the 1939 Nazi-Soviet Pact), Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

------

Victims of a mass shooting perpetrated by organized government are just as dead as victims of a mass shooting perpetrated by a lone nut. Adopt the broadest definition of “mass shooting” that you want (e.g., three victims wounded, one killed). Add up all the mass shooting deaths from lunatics, organized crime, jihadist cells and ordinary criminals. The global, historical total of mass shooting deaths will be gruesome, and it will also be small compared to the total of mass shooting deaths perpetrated by criminal governments — including Fascists, Communists and non-ideological tyrants.

 

[Brain357]

Another day and more cops shot.
3 women killed, 3 cops injured in barricade incident


The suspect, Lance Smith, 49, who police said has seven legal guns registered to his name, was heard saying, "I will not be taken without a fight," Detroit Police Chief James Craig said at a news conference this morning.

Only in the USA.

And? You anti gunners tell us you don't want all of our guns.....so had this guy only been allowed revolvers and a bolt action rifle, the outcome would have been the same......so the truth is, you are lying.....you will not be happy with some of our guns...you will push these crimes in order to get all of the guns....

And while you post this...I will balance the ledger with the truth.....each year Americans use their guns to stop violent criminals, like this guy, 1,500,000 times a year....according to bill clinton and barak obama.....guns in this country save more lives than they are used to take....by criminals that people like you keep letting out of jail. If you were serious about stopping gun crime, you wouldn't let gun criminals out of jail, over and over again...so your complaint against law abiding gun owners is a lie.....you just want the guns...

Your policies are doing a great job killing cops, children, women... It must be hard to sleep at night.

 

[Brain357]

Another day and more cops shot.
3 women killed, 3 cops injured in barricade incident


The suspect, Lance Smith, 49, who police said has seven legal guns registered to his name, was heard saying, "I will not be taken without a fight," Detroit Police Chief James Craig said at a news conference this morning.

Only in the USA.

And the truth....when only the government and police have guns.....the murder of innocent people is much higher....

What happens when unarmed people are attacked by an enemy with guns....the death toll from government murder is higher than all of our criminal murder combined.....yet you don't care about that kind of murder........the real death toll.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...s-in-gun-free-nations/?utm_term=.a687288286d7

Consider, for example, some of the deadliest mass shootings of the 20th century. As soon as the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union began on June 22, 1941, special SS units called Einsatzgruppen were deployed for mass killings. All the Jews or Gypsies (also known as Roma) in a village would be assembled and marched out of town. Then they would all be shot at once. (Yehuda Bauer, “Jewish Resistance in the Ukraine and Belarus during the Holocaust,” in Jewish Resistance Against the Nazis, Patrick Henry ed. [D. C.: Catholic University of America Press, 2014], pp. 485-93.)

Within a year, the 3,000 Einsatzgruppen, aided by several thousand helpers from the German police and military, had murdered about 1 million people, concentrating on small towns in formerly Soviet territory. (Hillary Earl, The Nuremberg SS-Einsatzgruppen Trial, 1945–1958 [Cambridge, U. K.: Cambridge Univ. Pr., 2009], pp. 4–8; Reuben Ainsztein, Jewish Resistance in Nazi-Occupied Eastern Europe [London: Elek Books, 1974], pp. 222–25.) Einsatzgruppen mass shootings took place not only in today’s Russia but also in nations that the Soviet Communists had taken over, and which were then over-run by the Nazis: eastern Poland (taken by Stalin pursuant to the 1939 Nazi-Soviet Pact), Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia.

------

Victims of a mass shooting perpetrated by organized government are just as dead as victims of a mass shooting perpetrated by a lone nut. Adopt the broadest definition of “mass shooting” that you want (e.g., three victims wounded, one killed). Add up all the mass shooting deaths from lunatics, organized crime, jihadist cells and ordinary criminals. The global, historical total of mass shooting deaths will be gruesome, and it will also be small compared to the total of mass shooting deaths perpetrated by criminal governments — including Fascists, Communists and non-ideological tyrants.

What's the homicide rate in Japan?

 

[Brain357]

Another day and more cops shot.
3 women killed, 3 cops injured in barricade incident


The suspect, Lance Smith, 49, who police said has seven legal guns registered to his name, was heard saying, "I will not be taken without a fight," Detroit Police Chief James Craig said at a news conference this morning.

Only in the USA.

And? You anti gunners tell us you don't want all of our guns.....so had this guy only been allowed revolvers and a bolt action rifle, the outcome would have been the same......so the truth is, you are lying.....you will not be happy with some of our guns...you will push these crimes in order to get all of the guns....

And while you post this...I will balance the ledger with the truth.....each year Americans use their guns to stop violent criminals, like this guy, 1,500,000 times a year....according to bill clinton and barak obama.....guns in this country save more lives than they are used to take....by criminals that people like you keep letting out of jail. If you were serious about stopping gun crime, you wouldn't let gun criminals out of jail, over and over again...so your complaint against law abiding gun owners is a lie.....you just want the guns...

Please quote where Clinton or Obama ever said that. Your lies keep getting worse. Meanwhile police are dying.

 

[Brain357]

Another day and more cops shot.
3 women killed, 3 cops injured in barricade incident


The suspect, Lance Smith, 49, who police said has seven legal guns registered to his name, was heard saying, "I will not be taken without a fight," Detroit Police Chief James Craig said at a news conference this morning.

Only in the USA.

And? You anti gunners tell us you don't want all of our guns.....so had this guy only been allowed revolvers and a bolt action rifle, the outcome would have been the same......so the truth is, you are lying.....you will not be happy with some of our guns...you will push these crimes in order to get all of the guns....

And while you post this...I will balance the ledger with the truth.....each year Americans use their guns to stop violent criminals, like this guy, 1,500,000 times a year....according to bill clinton and barak obama.....guns in this country save more lives than they are used to take....by criminals that people like you keep letting out of jail. If you were serious about stopping gun crime, you wouldn't let gun criminals out of jail, over and over again...so your complaint against law abiding gun owners is a lie.....you just want the guns...

Here is a great example of one of your defenses:
A Whitefish Bay man with three prior weapons convictions was allowed to legally carry a concealed gun. The man posted his shooting skills on Facebook. Weeks after the post, police said he shot and killed a man during a drug deal gone bad in an alley near Milwaukee's Riverside High School

Wisconsin law allows repeat gun offenders to carry concealed weapons

The shooter has a long rap sheet. He once shot himself in the foot playing Russian roulette in Shorewood, and blamed three black men. He carried a concealed weapon before it was legal. And he later threatened a man with his gun while drunk. But because all his convictions are misdemeanors, he still qualified for a concealed-carry license.

 

[2aguy]

Another day and more cops shot.
3 women killed, 3 cops injured in barricade incident


The suspect, Lance Smith, 49, who police said has seven legal guns registered to his name, was heard saying, "I will not be taken without a fight," Detroit Police Chief James Craig said at a news conference this morning.

Only in the USA.

And? You anti gunners tell us you don't want all of our guns.....so had this guy only been allowed revolvers and a bolt action rifle, the outcome would have been the same......so the truth is, you are lying.....you will not be happy with some of our guns...you will push these crimes in order to get all of the guns....

And while you post this...I will balance the ledger with the truth.....each year Americans use their guns to stop violent criminals, like this guy, 1,500,000 times a year....according to bill clinton and barak obama.....guns in this country save more lives than they are used to take....by criminals that people like you keep letting out of jail. If you were serious about stopping gun crime, you wouldn't let gun criminals out of jail, over and over again...so your complaint against law abiding gun owners is a lie.....you just want the guns...

Your policies are doing a great job killing cops, children, women... It must be hard to sleep at night.

I sleep like a baby knowing that armed American citizens use their guns to stop violent rapists, robbers and murderers every single day. According to bill clinton and barak obama, Americans use their guns to stop criminals 1,500,000 times a year.....more than the number of criminals who murder each other with guns......and considering 70-80% of gun murder victims are criminals engaged in crime or the criminal life style, that means that very few innocent Americans are the victims of gun crime, and no where near the number who are saved by Americans with guns.