Medicare runs out of $ in 6 years

[blu]

the thing that got me following ron paul was that he would make it so you could opt out of social security, medicare, etc

 

[Oddball]

Name one of your worshiped socialistic welfare state do-gooder programs that has come in under projected costs and delivered more than promised....Just one.

Medicare

The only reason it's having trouble is from outside circumstances, not from issues within the program.

Outside circumstances (economic types call them externalities) that politicians and bureaucrats almost never see coming and never ever adjust to, because they're immune (or so they'd like to think they are anyways) to market forces.

Today. Medicare/Medicaid cost no less than ten times (including inflation) what they were projected to cast back in 1965....So much for the fairy tale of Big Daddy Big Gubmint being able to control costs.

Social Security

It does everything it promises to do without any problem. Usually the investments have exceeded expectations.
The problems SS ran into were again external:
1) various Republican administrations stealing money from it to pay for other programs and
2) the increasing number of old people in the country.

Both programs however come in under projected costs, per person, in doing what they are supposed to do, when one includes dividends on investments in the case of SS.

#1 is an out-and-out lie....Administrations since FDR have been "borrowing" from the cynically dubbed OASI "trust fund", to float and hide the real costs of their Utopian do-goodery.

The notion that OASI is an "investment" is so intellectually repugnant so as to be physically sickening.

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

The sooner programs like this die or are stopped for good, the better. The government is not an insurance policy.

 

[blu]

The sooner programs like this die or are stopped for good, the better. The government is not an insurance policy.

except the people that were robbed (forced to pay in) will never get there money back. it should just be cut off from new members. that would also stop politicians from robbing its funds

 

[BasicGreatGuy]

The sooner programs like this die or are stopped for good, the better. The government is not an insurance policy.

except the people that were robbed (forced to pay in) will never get there money back. it should just be cut off from new members. that would also stop politicians from robbing its funds

Life is tough. Wear a helmet. Cut it off from everyone. Better to stop the bleeding now, than continue to enable the government hacks.

 

[Oddball]

HEY!!

 

[Vast LWC]

Outside circumstances (economic types call them externalities) that politicians and bureaucrats almost never see coming and never ever adjust to, because they're immune (or so they'd like to think they are anyways) to market forces.

Today. Medicare/Medicaid cost no less than ten times (including inflation) what they were projected to cast back in 1965....So much for the fairy tale of Big Daddy Big Gubmint being able to control costs.

Due entirely to rising medical costs and lengthening lifespans due to BETTER MEDICAL CARE.

Thus the program costs more due to the external market forces of private industry, and the fact that it has made people healthier in their old age. It's a victim of it's own success.

#1 is an out-and-out lie....Administrations since FDR have been "borrowing" from the cynically dubbed OASI "trust fund", to float and hide the real costs of their Utopian do-goodery.

But Republican administrations have taken much more from the trust fund than their democratic counterparts, especially in the past 30 years, which is when Social Security began to become insolvent. That's not a "lie" at all, now is it?

The notion that OASI is an "investment" is so intellectually repugnant so as to be physically sickening.

The trust fund was supposed to be invested. It wasn't, due to the point I just made.

The point of what I was getting at though, is that both of these programs successfully did what they were supposed to do, efficiently.

If a private corporation keeps costs down, and produces what it is supposed to efficiently, but someone from the outside comes and destroys their factory, or their only supplier starts charging outrageous prices for raw material, or someone brings a frivolous multi-million dollar lawsuit against the company making them go broke, then it is not the company's fault that it's excellent efforts failed, now is it?

 

[Oddball]

Bull cookies it has made people healthier.

That you claim republican administrations have robbed OASI is irrelevant. Also, the congress (y'know...the body that WRITES BUDGET BILLS) has been mostly in the hands of democrats.

The "trust fund" was never "invested" in anything more than the prospect of more taxpayers being born....Socialist Insecurity has been an out-and-out Ponzi scheme from day one, and anyone with a shred of intellectual honesty (which, apparently, appears to exclude you) knows it.

 

[KissMy]

The sooner programs like this die or are stopped for good, the better. The government is not an insurance policy.

except the people that were robbed (forced to pay in) will never get there money back. it should just be cut off from new members. that would also stop politicians from robbing its funds

We can't help it if the retired people were duped by the full of shit politicians they voted into power when they were young. All I can say they have caused us all to get fleeced by their stupid ponzi scheme.

All I know is I will only vote for politicians who promise to dispose of all these government programs. I vowed 12 years ago they will never get another dime from me & they have not so far. They can't find, devalue, or tax my gold & they can Kiss My Ass. Anyone stupid enough to trust the government with their healthcare, retirement, earnings, or saves in Federal Reserve Notes instead of the Constitutional, legal, lawful gold is an idiot & deserves the poverty coming to them.

My golden retirement fund has increased a tax free 400% since I stopped beliving the government lies & I will have a worry free retirement.

 

[uscitizen]

The entire system is a Ponzi scheme.
I pay 13K a year, probably over 300K for the last 40 years just into my "account", into it plus corporate matching contributions for others.
And if I die the day before I start to draw any of it my heirs get ZERO.
That 300K probably would have grown to over a million bucks.
Government. It sucks.

You nailed it there!

I also believe medicare spends to much on the last year of life for the terminal & elderly. That year is usually miserable for the patient & cost more than the healthcare for their entire life up untill that last year. We do not need a 2,000 page comminust bill that no one will read. We should cut medicare in half & give the needy the most basic coverage.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkLUMHT4aHE&feature=player_embedded"]Gov Healthcare[/ame]

Man , you have upstaged me bad on heartless.

 

[KissMy]

Man , you have upstaged me bad on heartless.

Heartless is the $107 trillion in unfunded SS, Medicare, & Prescription Drug plan that these ass holes are enslaving us with.

Social Security might be managable but "Medicare & Prescription Drugs will sink our ship of state." - David Walker, comptroller general - our nations top accountant.

If you want to know why we pay a high price for healthcare, look no further than the doctor shortage caused by government & unions. They keep prices high by discouraging young people from ever trying to get admission to medical school. A free market would have driven healthcare cost down to earth.

 

[Charles Stucker]

Man , you have upstaged me bad on heartless.

Heartless is the $107 trillion in unfunded SS, Medicare, & Prescription Drug plan that these ass holes are enslaving us with.

Actually that might be the true plan - enslave the people of the US with debt owed to federal "funds"

 

[Polk]

Name one of your worshiped socialistic welfare state do-gooder programs that has come in under projected costs and delivered more than promised....Just one.

Medicare

The only reason it's having trouble is from outside circumstances, not from issues within the program.


Social Security

It does everything it promises to do without any problem. Usually the investments have exceeded expectations.
The problems SS ran into were again external:
1) various Republican administrations stealing money from it to pay for other programs and
2) the increasing number of old people in the country.

Both programs however come in under projected costs, per person, in doing what they are supposed to do, when one includes dividends on investments in the case of SS.

Specifically about the underlined portion: it's not really the increasing number of elderly people as the reduction of the ratio between the elderly and the working age population. At the time the program was created, society operated as it had for the rest of human history: barring food storage, population increases constantly. The result is a relatively constant ratio of elderly to workers. That falls apart with the advent of things like birth control.

 

[Polk]

I also believe medicare spends to much on the last year of life for the terminal & elderly. That year is usually miserable for the patient & cost more than the healthcare for their entire life up untill that last year.

You realize what you're talking about is what your party was touting as "death panels", right? The only difference is that what your side attacked left the decision to the patient, as opposed to your version which may or may not (you weren't specific on the point).

 

[Polk]

Outside circumstances (economic types call them externalities) that politicians and bureaucrats almost never see coming and never ever adjust to, because they're immune (or so they'd like to think they are anyways) to market forces.

Today. Medicare/Medicaid cost no less than ten times (including inflation) what they were projected to cast back in 1965....So much for the fairy tale of Big Daddy Big Gubmint being able to control costs.

Due entirely to rising medical costs and lengthening lifespans due to BETTER MEDICAL CARE.

Thus the program costs more due to the external market forces of private industry, and the fact that it has made people healthier in their old age. It's a victim of it's own success.

Dude's issue here is that he's pissed that the government doesn't have a crystal ball. He also wants you to ignore that his side predicted at the time that the creation of Medicare would result in the nationalization of hospitals and the militarization of the medical profession (government assigned duty stations, etc). Neither of those things actually happened.

#1 is an out-and-out lie....Administrations since FDR have been "borrowing" from the cynically dubbed OASI "trust fund", to float and hide the real costs of their Utopian do-goodery.

But Republican administrations have taken much more from the trust fund than their democratic counterparts, especially in the past 30 years, which is when Social Security began to become insolvent. That's not a "lie" at all, now is it?

You're giving his point too much credit. Until 30 years ago, the revenue from FICA was equal to expenditures. There wasn't a raiding of the "trust fund" because there was no trust fund to raid. The raiding begins after Reagan signs the massive tax hike to put the program on a more stable long-term footing (by spreading the collection cost over a longer period).

 

[KissMy]

I also believe Medicare spends to much on the last year of life for the terminal & elderly. That year is usually miserable for the patient & cost more than the health care for their entire life up until that last year.

You realize what you're talking about is what your party was touting as "death panels", right? The only difference is that what your side attacked left the decision to the patient, as opposed to your version which may or may not (you weren't specific on the point).

I am a Libertarian. As for us we do not believe in government health care, but the fact is we already have it. The Medicare is bankrupting our country. It needs to be cut down & if that means death panels then so be it. If you are stupid enough to want government health care then you need to accept the consequences. If the government death panel cuts off their health care there is no reason they can't pay for their own health care.

Anytime government gets involved prices skyrocket. This is what has already happened to our health care system. Adding a 2,000 page bureaucracy congress did not read forcing everyone into that system will make prices even higher & care worse for us that pay for it. Unlike the H.R.3200 health care bill passed by the house that does away with private health care & forces me to pay more for less, I would at least like the option to provide my own health care. A 10 page health care bill would be enough.

 

[kyzr]

Totally agree. SS is manageable. Even Obama said fixing SS was a "slam dunk". Fixing Medicare is for the heartless. The DC clowns had 40-years to "fix" Medicare, they didn't and now its too late. The only thing we can do now is "ration" medical services.
1. 50% of the medical system is used on only 5% of the population, the sickest 5%.
2. 25% of the medical system is used on the dying during their last year of life.

So essentially we could cut about 40% of the costs of Medicare if thats what it takes. Its heartless, but it saves the system. If anyone has a better idea....lets hear it.

 

[KissMy]

Want to know why there are to few general practitioners & soaring medical cost?

They told me I was too smart to go into primary care "Everyone told me it was the wrong thing to do," recalls Dr. Jennifer Weyler, explaining her decision two years ago as a medical student to become a family doctor. "My teachers discouraged me; administrators discouraged me. They told me I was too smart to go into primary care or that the job wouldn't be enough of a challenge." And sure enough, Weyler, now a resident in family medicine at the University of Massachusetts, is frustrate - but not by her job, which she loves. "It frustrates me," she explains, "to have to continually explain to people what a primary care practitioner is."

It was only 50 years ago, after all, that no one had to be told what a family doctor was, mainly because that's about all there was. Eighty-seven percent of all doctors in the thirties were general practitionersgeneral practitioner - namely internists, pediatricians, and family doctors. Today that figure has dropped to 30 percent.

A New England Medical Center's Health Institute study in 1992 found that specialists order more tests, perform more procedures, and hospitalize patients more often than primary care doctors treating similar symptoms. Family practitioners are less likely to hospitalize patients than specialists treating patients who had similar levels of illness, according to a recent Journal of the American Medical Association report. A 1990 study estimated that a 50-50 mix of primary care doctors to specialists would produce a 39 percent reduction in total expenditures for physician services. "Primary care protects people from unwanted procedures," explains Fitzhugh Mullan, an assistant U.S. surgeon general "General practitioners look at risks and benefits, both in terms of care and costs."

The American Medical Association is a trade union that limits the number of people who can enter medical school. Control over admission to medical school and later licensure enables the profession to limit entry in two ways. The obvious one is simply by turning down many applicants. The less obvious, but probably far more important one, is by establishing standards for admission and licensure that make entry so difficult as to discourage young people from ever trying to get admission.

Like the AMA, SEIU is largely a medical trade union who wrote Obamacare H.R.3200. This is like the POTUS Obama is the SEIU union boss negotiating their pay contract with the US citizens. Do you really want more rationing & higher medical cost? Adding a 2,000 page bureaucracy congress did not read forcing everyone into that system (read pages 16-20) will make prices even higher & care worse for us that pay for it. Unlike the H.R.3200 health care bill passed by the house that does away with private health care & forces me to pay more for less, I would at least like the option to provide my own health care. A 10 page health care bill would be enough.