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* Myth #1 "Guns are only used for killing"
Compared to about 35,000 gun deaths every year, 2.5 million good Americans use guns to protect themselves, their families, and their livelihoods - there are 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun - five lives are protected per minute - and, of those 2.5 million protective uses of guns, about 1/2 million are believed to have saved lives. [2]
* Myth #6 "A homeowner is 43 times as likely to be killed or kill a family member as an intruder"
To suggest that science has proven that defending oneself or one's family with a gun is dangerous, gun prohibitionists repeat Dr. Kellermann's long discredited claim: "a gun owner is 43 times more likely to kill a family member than an intruder." [17] This fallacy , fabricated using tax dollars, is one of the most misused slogans of the anti-self-defense lobby.
The honest measure of the protective benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved, and the property protected not Kellermann's burglar or rapist body count. Only 0.1% (1 in a thousand) of the defensive uses of guns results in the death of the predator. [3] Any study, such as Kellermann' "43 times" fallacy, that only counts bodies will expectedly underestimate the benefits of gun a thousand fold. Think for a minute. Would anyone suggest that the only measure of the benefit of law enforcement is the number of people killed by police? Of course not. The honest measure of the benefits of guns are the lives saved, the injuries prevented, the medical costs saved by deaths and injuries averted, and the property protected. 65 lives protected by guns for every life lost to a gun. [2]
Kellermann recently downgraded his estimate to "2.7 times," [18] but he persisted in discredited methodology. He used a method that cannot distinguish between "cause" and "effect." His method would be like finding more diet drinks in the refrigerators of fat people and then concluding that diet drinks "cause" obesity.
Also, he studied groups with high rates of violent criminality, alcoholism, drug addiction, abject poverty, and domestic abuse . From such a poor and violent study group he attempted to generalize his findings to normal homes. Interestingly, when Dr. Kellermann was interviewed he stated that, if his wife were attacked, he would want her to have a gun for protection.[19] Apparently, Dr. Kellermann doesn't even believe his own studies.
Guy, you've already proved yourself crazy by stalking me, even after I put your sorry ass on ignore.
You are not a sane person. And I guess that is what you gun nuts really fear.
But back to Holmes. The media found out within ONE DAY he was batshit crazy.
one day. Had everything on his ass.
Because they actually bothered to look.
Had Holmes been adjudicated as a mental defective, or committed to a mental institution, or had been found by a court, board, or other lawful authority to be a danger to himself or others, then he could have been prohibited from purchasing a firearm or ammunition.
Absent the due process noted above, however, it would have been unlawful for the state of Colorado, or any of its jurisdictions, to disallow Holmes to purchase a firearm.
The issue is not that it was known Holmes to be mentally ill, but whether or not that determination was made in the context of due process.
Any anger, therefore, should be directed at a society unable or unwilling to comprehensively address the issue of mental illness, not at those who legally sold Holmes the firearms.
It is true that no right is absolute, including the rights enshrined in the Second Amendment, and that rights may be subject to reasonable restrictions by the government. Those restrictions must be rationally based, motivated by a legitimate legislative end, and predicated on objective evidence. Laws disallowing persons adjudicated as a mental defective to own a firearm clearly pass Constitutional muster, but with the additional requirement of due process to justify the prohibition.
The government cannot be trusted to make such decisions.
Lets see, OBAMAS list of people unfit to own firearms due to mental illness.
Combat veterans.
Registered republicans.
Libertarians.
People who subscribe to firearms magazines.
Divorced males.
Gun owners.
Applicants for gun license.
Hunters.
The poor.
The Rich.
People in the inner city.
People in the burbs.
People in the country.
Anyone else not mentioned in the list.
Women.
Blacks.
Whites.
Hispanics.
Asians.
All races.
Should I continue?
It's a way to grab guns, nothing more.
An arbitrary method to apply the label "mentally unstable".
Your mother just died, your in an emotionally unstable position to buy a firearm.
The next application......... Sorry, your last application was rejected for emotional instability, you Are mentally unfit to own a firearm, given your history of mental issues.
That's how it would work.
Combat Veteran?
They have PTSD, sorry bub, mentally unfit!
If you accept gun ownership as a "right", you advocate the insane having access to them.
Don't try to wiggle out of it now.
Insane people can have kids so where do you want to start ?
Face it the vast majority of gun owners are sane law abiding people who will never shoot anyone.
Yet you want to control everyone because of a fraction of a percent of people might do something stupid.
It's you with the problem here.
Yes, but they take kids out of a home with an insane person in it... so that argument doesn't wash.
Because the sane parents will report the crazy ones.
The problem with you gun whacks is that you actually ADVOCATE for Joker Holmes to get a gun.
A simple investigation into his background would have raised all sorts of red flags.
A simple investigation into his background would have raised all sorts of red flags.
No it wouldn't have. In fact he was not a felon and there is no compulsory mental health screening.
And again we are at the point where you want to blame 99.999% of gun owners for what .0001% of gun owners do.
That's like me taking your kids away from you because some other guy beat his.
You just don't get that do you?
A simple investigation into his background would have raised all sorts of red flags.
No it wouldn't have. In fact he was not a felon and there is no compulsory mental health screening.
And again we are at the point where you want to blame 99.999% of gun owners for what .0001% of gun owners do.
That's like me taking your kids away from you because some other guy beat his.
You just don't get that do you?
You are comparing your guns to your kids? Man, you have some fucked up priorities.
For the record, though, the News Media found out Holmes as crazy by TALKING TO HIS MOTHER the very same day of the shooting.
Wow. What a concept.
No it wouldn't have. In fact he was not a felon and there is no compulsory mental health screening.
And again we are at the point where you want to blame 99.999% of gun owners for what .0001% of gun owners do.
That's like me taking your kids away from you because some other guy beat his.
You just don't get that do you?
You are comparing your guns to your kids? Man, you have some fucked up priorities.
For the record, though, the News Media found out Holmes as crazy by TALKING TO HIS MOTHER the very same day of the shooting.
Wow. What a concept.
So you want gun shops to call a grownups parents to see if they are as crazy as you?
No. He wants a dozen bureaucrats to spend a week investigating every single person that wants to buy a gun.
Rather than the thousand man hours the Media invested in Holmes, let's suppose we spent only 100 man hours/purchase.
We would need 865,000 new federal agents, (probably union members) costing 65 $BILLION/year.
A simple investigation into his background would have raised all sorts of red flags.
No it wouldn't have. In fact he was not a felon and there is no compulsory mental health screening.
And again we are at the point where you want to blame 99.999% of gun owners for what .0001% of gun owners do.
That's like me taking your kids away from you because some other guy beat his.
You just don't get that do you?
You are comparing your guns to your kids? Man, you have some fucked up priorities.
For the record, though, the News Media found out Holmes as crazy by TALKING TO HIS MOTHER the very same day of the shooting.
Wow. What a concept.
No. He wants a dozen bureaucrats to spend a week investigating every single person that wants to buy a gun.
Rather than the thousand man hours the Media invested in Holmes, let's suppose we spent only 100 man hours/purchase.
We would need 865,000 new federal agents, (probably union members) costing 65 $BILLION/year.
Good point, Ernie.
We could have 865,000 more gainfully employed people, and we can pay for them by slapping a tax on the sale of guns, ammunition and the renewal of gun and hunting licenses.
You're just a font of great ideas.
Thanks, man, you're the best.
Responsible Gun Owner
Uh, he wasn't the gun owner.
You were saying something about being mentally challenged?
Responsible Gun Owner
Uh, he wasn't the gun owner.
You were saying something about being mentally challenged?
Oh good catch!
This comment was edited out.
Last edited by JoeB131; 08-27-2013 at 05:06 AM. Reason: Using more PC Term in subject line.
No. He wants a dozen bureaucrats to spend a week investigating every single person that wants to buy a gun.
Rather than the thousand man hours the Media invested in Holmes, let's suppose we spent only 100 man hours/purchase.
We would need 865,000 new federal agents, (probably union members) costing 65 $BILLION/year.
Good point, Ernie.
We could have 865,000 more gainfully employed people, and we can pay for them by slapping a tax on the sale of guns, ammunition and the renewal of gun and hunting licenses.
You're just a font of great ideas.
Thanks, man, you're the best.
65 billion paid for by a tax on 18 million gun purchases
$3,600 tax to buy a $400 gun? Oh wait! You support obamacare, don't you?
