MI Moving to a Right to Work State!!! Congrats!!!

[thanatos144]

There are laws against intimidating people into joining a union. If you didn't report the crime that's your problem. Its hardly fair to pass laws prohibiting what kinds of agreements unions and business can make with one another just because some folks are too chicken to report crimes against them.

You do not know that in a union shop state EVERYONE is required to join the union before they can get a job in a union company?

That isn't true.
That's a CLOSED SHOP. Those aren't legal anywhere.

In a union shop you are only required to join the union (or pay dues) within a certain time period AFTER you begin work. You do not need to be a member to get the job in the first place.

And you are of course free to choose to work at a place with no union shop agreement, just as you're free to choose to work at a place that doesn't require you to wear a tie or shave. To suggest its a violation of your freedom because not every potential job is suited to your liking is just absurd.

That just told me you are ether full of shit cause I know for a fact you couldn't join a union shop with out joining the union OR you are to fucking stupid to know your wrong.

 

[Freewill]

Every job I have ever worked has a contract. Without the Union the contract was mostly something I agreed too but wasn't negotiated. I either took the job and liked what I got or didn't. With Unions they keep people out of jobs that don't want to join the union, this law changes that. It does not change the fact that Unions can still represent the employees. For years he Post Office has been right to work and I would say the majority, don't really know, are unionized. What happens is that the Union represents all the employees, they usually have too.

 

[percysunshine]

In Texas, workers at McDonalds get paid more than workers at McDonalds in Michigan.

 

[Freewill]

You do not know that in a union shop state EVERYONE is required to join the union before they can get a job in a union company?

That isn't true.
That's a CLOSED SHOP. Those aren't legal anywhere.

In a union shop you are only required to join the union (or pay dues) within a certain time period AFTER you begin work. You do not need to be a member to get the job in the first place.

And you are of course free to choose to work at a place with no union shop agreement, just as you're free to choose to work at a place that doesn't require you to wear a tie or shave. To suggest its a violation of your freedom because not every potential job is suited to your liking is just absurd.

That just told me you are ether full of shit cause I know for a fact you couldn't join a union shop with out joining the union OR you are to fucking stupid to know your wrong.

As I have been saying for quite sometime, liberals are not stupid they are just uninformed, by design I think.

40 years ago I had just got out of the Navy and was looking for work. The Plumber's union was looking for apprentices and having interviews. I went to see what was up thinking to get experience and start a business. They actually laughed at me because I was a little bit older then the others being interviewed, and I had no connection with the Union.

So I went to work where in a small shop and in time contacted a Union to represent us. We voted in the Union and we all were instantly laid off. But I don't really regret it because people need to stand up for themselves.

Then I went to work where I work today and membership in the Union was both mandatory and advised.

 

[thanatos144]

That isn't true.
That's a CLOSED SHOP. Those aren't legal anywhere.

In a union shop you are only required to join the union (or pay dues) within a certain time period AFTER you begin work. You do not need to be a member to get the job in the first place.

And you are of course free to choose to work at a place with no union shop agreement, just as you're free to choose to work at a place that doesn't require you to wear a tie or shave. To suggest its a violation of your freedom because not every potential job is suited to your liking is just absurd.

That just told me you are ether full of shit cause I know for a fact you couldn't join a union shop with out joining the union OR you are to fucking stupid to know your wrong.

As I have been saying for quite sometime, liberals are not stupid they are just uninformed, by design I think.

40 years ago I had just got out of the Navy and was looking for work. The Plumber's union was looking for apprentices and having interviews. I went to see what was up thinking to get experience and start a business. They actually laughed at me because I was a little bit older then the others being interviewed, and I had no connection with the Union.

So I went to work where in a small shop and in time contacted a Union to represent us. We voted in the Union and we all were instantly laid off. But I don't really regret it because people need to stand up for themselves.

Then I went to work where I work today and membership in the Union was both mandatory and advised.

So your proud that you caused the unemployment of all those in the small shop?

 

[Freewill]

That just told me you are ether full of shit cause I know for a fact you couldn't join a union shop with out joining the union OR you are to fucking stupid to know your wrong.

As I have been saying for quite sometime, liberals are not stupid they are just uninformed, by design I think.

40 years ago I had just got out of the Navy and was looking for work. The Plumber's union was looking for apprentices and having interviews. I went to see what was up thinking to get experience and start a business. They actually laughed at me because I was a little bit older then the others being interviewed, and I had no connection with the Union.

So I went to work where in a small shop and in time contacted a Union to represent us. We voted in the Union and we all were instantly laid off. But I don't really regret it because people need to stand up for themselves.

Then I went to work where I work today and membership in the Union was both mandatory and advised.

So your proud that you caused the unemployment of all those in the small shop?

No, actually I had not control over what the company did. Make a stand that cost me, yeah I am proud.

 

[thanatos144]

As I have been saying for quite sometime, liberals are not stupid they are just uninformed, by design I think.

40 years ago I had just got out of the Navy and was looking for work. The Plumber's union was looking for apprentices and having interviews. I went to see what was up thinking to get experience and start a business. They actually laughed at me because I was a little bit older then the others being interviewed, and I had no connection with the Union.

So I went to work where in a small shop and in time contacted a Union to represent us. We voted in the Union and we all were instantly laid off. But I don't really regret it because people need to stand up for themselves.

Then I went to work where I work today and membership in the Union was both mandatory and advised.

So your proud that you caused the unemployment of all those in the small shop?

No, actually I had not control over what the company did. Make a stand that cost me, yeah I am proud.

What did you think was going to happen when you tried to infest a small shop???? They would have no choice but to fold. Small shops can not afford unions. So you made a stand wanting more money and they had to let go of all of you....So for your greed you cost your co workers their jobs. Not something I would be proud of.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The issue is pretty simple, anyone with some knowledge of history understands the lessons (learned and apparently forgotten) from the late 19th and early 20th century.

Labor is a market. Let capital and labor meet and confer and set mutually acceptable wages and benefits.

Both sides use surrogates to negotiate contracts, what capital - and the GOP - hope is to upset this balance to gain an advantage for capital.

Unions and collective bargaining make for a level field.

Read some history; the ignorance on the far right is astonishing and an embarrassment.

 

[Si modo]

The issue is pretty simple, anyone with some knowledge of history understands the lessons (learned and apparently forgotten) from the late 19th and early 20th century.

Labor is a market. Let capital and labor meet and confer and set mutually acceptable wages and benefits.

Both sides use surrogates to negotiate contracts, what capital - and the GOP - hope is to upset this balance to gain an advantage for capital.

Unions and collective bargaining make for a level field.

Read some history; the ignorance on the far right is astonishing and an embarrassment.

There are federal regulations in place now to protect workers. Unions are corrupt and redundant scams in the present day.

 

[Seawytch]

There is nothing to refute. You didn't provide any substance other than an unfounded and biased opinion.

*eye roll* oh brother. Do you know how to use the interwebs?

We find that the mean effect of working in a right-to-work state results in a 6% to 8% reduction in wages for workers in these states, with an average wage penalty of 6.5%. Controlling for regional costs of living reduces this amount to approximately 4%. We find that previous research reporting real wage gains associated with right-to-work states is almost purely the result of border cities that benefit from their proximity to a non-RTW state.

The Wage Penalty of Right-to-Work Laws | Economic Policy Institute

* Women's wages dropped 4.4 percent in states where unionized companies made union dues optional. (Men's wages were 1.7 percent lower).
* The hit to wages was higher among non-whites. Blacks and Hispanics were paid 4.8 percent and 4.4 percent less than their non-union peers.
* On average, annual wages and benefits are $1,500 lower in RTW states than for comparable workers in non-RTW states — for both union and nonunion workers.
* Right-to-work laws widened the pay gap between men and women.​

Do Right-To-Work states hurt wages?

These facts will be ignored in the corporate backed race to the bottom.


Name a Republican policy in the last 75 years that has helped the middle class. Name a Republican policy in the last 75 years that benefits labor over management.

 

[percysunshine]

The issue is pretty simple, anyone with some knowledge of history understands the lessons (learned and apparently forgotten) from the late 19th and early 20th century.

Labor is a market. Let capital and labor meet and confer and set mutually acceptable wages and benefits.

Both sides use surrogates to negotiate contracts, what capital - and the GOP - hope is to upset this balance to gain an advantage for capital.

Unions and collective bargaining make for a level field.

Read some history; the ignorance on the far right is astonishing and an embarrassment.

So Chicago style. Let two entities share a monopoly? Maybe you could throw in the Government and make it three entities that share a monopoly.

The worker gets screwed in the deal.

'Right to work' and F U to the government/union/industrial complex.

 

[Freewill]

So your proud that you caused the unemployment of all those in the small shop?

No, actually I had not control over what the company did. Make a stand that cost me, yeah I am proud.

What did you think was going to happen when you tried to infest a small shop???? They would have no choice but to fold. Small shops can not afford unions. So you made a stand wanting more money and they had to let go of all of you....So for your greed you cost your co workers their jobs. Not something I would be proud of.

You definitely have the wrong conception of unions as do the liberal counter parts. Just because someone becomes unionized does not automatically wave a magic wane and they now get all kinds of goodies. What the company I worked for did was go from making a profit off of my labor to making no profit from my labor. The harder I worked the more money the company made. Asking for a fairer share did no good. Asking for decent medical coverage did no good. All we did was organize so we could negotiate fair wages and benefits for ALL the employees. The company didn't wait to even hear what we thought would be fair they just reacted. They broke the law before the vote and they broke it after. I could have just quit in the first place and had the vote gone differently I would have but I tried to make life better for all of us, whether you believe that or not. I would like to think it shook out better for all, it did for me.

 

[Freewill]

The issue is pretty simple, anyone with some knowledge of history understands the lessons (learned and apparently forgotten) from the late 19th and early 20th century.

Labor is a market. Let capital and labor meet and confer and set mutually acceptable wages and benefits.

Both sides use surrogates to negotiate contracts, what capital - and the GOP - hope is to upset this balance to gain an advantage for capital.

Unions and collective bargaining make for a level field.

Read some history; the ignorance on the far right is astonishing and an embarrassment.

That is still true today except that there are not so many closed shops, or union shops, as there used to be. If I ran a major company I would welcome a union. It is much easier to negoitate with a few then everyone and in the end a contract is the results. No union ever wrote a contract but a whole lot of companies entered into a contract without much thought of the future, in my opinion.

 

[Seawytch]

States with Stronger Unions Have Stronger Middle Classes

Seriously, what part of this don't ya'll get? The corporate masters (who own our legislators and the media, by the way) get the gold mine and we get the shaft.

How can anyone cheer this on?

 

[Wry Catcher]

The issue is pretty simple, anyone with some knowledge of history understands the lessons (learned and apparently forgotten) from the late 19th and early 20th century.

Labor is a market. Let capital and labor meet and confer and set mutually acceptable wages and benefits.

Both sides use surrogates to negotiate contracts, what capital - and the GOP - hope is to upset this balance to gain an advantage for capital.

Unions and collective bargaining make for a level field.

Read some history; the ignorance on the far right is astonishing and an embarrassment.

There are federal regulations in place now to protect workers. Unions are corrupt and redundant scams in the present day.

Not all unions are corrupt nor are all (or any, spell out which you mean) of their demands redundant or scams. As for federal protections in place, which is true, the GOP has made it a cause to reduce federal regulations. Never spelling out which regulations they find odorous, we can only look to the governors of Wisconsin and Michigan as our guide.

 

[Freewill]

States with Stronger Unions Have Stronger Middle Classes

Seriously, what part of this don't ya'll get? The corporate masters (who own our legislators and the media, by the way) get the gold mine and we get the shaft.

How can anyone cheer this on?

Who is cheering this on? If you have a 401K how do you expect it to grow? You should expect it to grow by a percentage every year. So let's say you start out with $1000 and I start out with $100 and we both earn 10%/year. In one year you will now have $1100 and I will have $110 for a difference no longer of $900 but of $990. In the both cases you had 91% of the money. Works the same with wages, a percentage increase always helps the top more then the bottom that is why Unions usually demand percentage wage increases.

Now I suppose you question is how do we even the playing field? How do we keep the top from naturally growing apparently faster then the bottom in terms of actual money and not percent? Other then what is happening, the government just taking the those making more money I see no way around it.

Remember also, that if what is earned takes a dip those with the most lose the most in terms of dollars.

 

[Gadawg73]

The issue is pretty simple, anyone with some knowledge of history understands the lessons (learned and apparently forgotten) from the late 19th and early 20th century.

Labor is a market. Let capital and labor meet and confer and set mutually acceptable wages and benefits.

Both sides use surrogates to negotiate contracts, what capital - and the GOP - hope is to upset this balance to gain an advantage for capital.

Unions and collective bargaining make for a level field.

Read some history; the ignorance on the far right is astonishing and an embarrassment.

How level is that for the worker in a union shop or closed union shop state that does not want to join the union?
Not level at all. Unfair and needs to be changed. Workers should have a right NOT to join a union and still get a job in that company.
Amazing that the law allows unions to do that.

 

[Gadawg73]

I am not far right and believe unions should not have a monopoly on workers in some states.

 

[Wry Catcher]

The issue is pretty simple, anyone with some knowledge of history understands the lessons (learned and apparently forgotten) from the late 19th and early 20th century.

Labor is a market. Let capital and labor meet and confer and set mutually acceptable wages and benefits.

Both sides use surrogates to negotiate contracts, what capital - and the GOP - hope is to upset this balance to gain an advantage for capital.

Unions and collective bargaining make for a level field.

Read some history; the ignorance on the far right is astonishing and an embarrassment.

How level is that for the worker in a union shop or closed union shop state that does not want to join the union?
Not level at all. Unfair and needs to be changed. Workers should have a right NOT to join a union and still get a job in that company.
Amazing that the law allows unions to do that.

In the county where I last worked an employee was not required to join the union, however, since they benefited by the contracts negotiated by the union they were required to make a donation to a non profit in the same amount as they would have paid had they joined the union. And, when they fucked up, the union has a duty to represent them in disciplinary matters.

 

[Gadawg73]

The issue is pretty simple, anyone with some knowledge of history understands the lessons (learned and apparently forgotten) from the late 19th and early 20th century.

Labor is a market. Let capital and labor meet and confer and set mutually acceptable wages and benefits.

Both sides use surrogates to negotiate contracts, what capital - and the GOP - hope is to upset this balance to gain an advantage for capital.

Unions and collective bargaining make for a level field.

Read some history; the ignorance on the far right is astonishing and an embarrassment.

How level is that for the worker in a union shop or closed union shop state that does not want to join the union?
Not level at all. Unfair and needs to be changed. Workers should have a right NOT to join a union and still get a job in that company.
Amazing that the law allows unions to do that.

In the county where I last worked an employee was not required to join the union, however, since they benefited by the contracts negotiated by the union they were required to make a donation to a non profit in the same amount as they would have paid had they joined the union. And, when they fucked up, the union has a duty to represent them in disciplinary matters.

No, they did not "benefit" from any contract negotiated by a union.
They were hired and the pay for that job was posted for all applicants. And they have to do a good job for that pay and if they do not they are fired.
Hopefully but like you say, unions protect fucked up workers.
How fucked up is that? Someone fucks up and the union supports the guy THAT FUCKED UP!
And imagine that, the county hired someone that is not pro union.
How dare someone not want to join a union! Mercy me.
And I am sure the union does a great job "representing" non union workers when they fuck up.