Millions lose coverage

[danielpalos]

Question for the Lefty's, what's the difference between Medicaid and Medicare, and the ACA?

Another government mandate.

Would a "national health care tax" be more efficient?

Kudos for a good guess. The answer is price control. Not within the insurance itself, but pertaining to the service providers. Both of those programs simply tell them that "We will pay X amount", take it or leave it. As expansive as those programs are I would still classify them on a micro scale, I'm not smart enough to know how it would work on a macro scale. Funding will ALWAYS be the issue.

How is that different from the ACA?

 

[Flopper]

n return for those millions spent on promoting Obamacare, big pharma gets the privilege of spending even more money. Lots more money. For starters, the drugmakers must provide higher rebates to Medicaid for prescription drugs. This expanded rebate program will cost the industry around $20 billion over the next 10 years.

Pharmaceutical companies must also pay new excise taxes on branded drugs. Those taxes amounted to $5.3 billion over the past two years. By 2021, the cumulative total for the new taxes will top $30 billion. Since the amount a given company must pay is based on its percentage of total drug sales in the previous year, big pharma will pay the biggest bucks with this tax.

Filling part of the Medicare Part D "doughnut hole" will cost another $30 billion. Pharma companies must discount prices by 50% to senior citizens who reach the level of spending where this coverage gap exists. The grand total price tag for all of these new taxes, fees, and rebates for the industry over the next 10 years comes in at $80 billion. After helping to derail HillaryCare in the 1990s, were the folks at Pfizer, J&J, and other big pharmaceutical companies crazy to jump aboard Obamacare?

- Is Obamacare a Disaster Waiting to Happen for Big Pharma? -- The Motley Fool

Now we all know the pharma isn't paying that bill yea? $80b over 10 yrs, all to be paid by the patients. And it was unfeasible /before/ ACA taxed the bloody fuck out of pharma. It was the ticking time bomb of ACA and we pretty much knew it from the beginning. As the investor says: "My hunch is that big pharma might have gotten a better return on that $150 million spent on promoting Obamacare from another investment -- like maybe developing new and improved drugs."

Sorry, but I really can't feel sorry for big pharma with an average profit margin of over 20%, twice that of the average S&P500 company and profits of over 85 billion a year.

Nothing stops drug companies from charging the highest price the market will bear. They have increased their prices 208% in 8 years The FDA encourages it and their 20 year patents protect them from competition. The result, prices that make little sense, but lots of profits.
Why Prescription Drugs Cost So Much - AARP

 

[EverCurious]

It would be patently irresponsible for an insurance company to /not/ carry profit enough to handle running their business in a down turn.

Again - 208% increase in prices and there was a 148% increase in the cost of developing a drug for market, they were forced to give a 50% discount on drugs for every American over 65 (Can you say baby boomers?) On top of that they were taxed. That's $80 Billion they have to make up for in the 10 years after ACA's passage to even break /even/ - not even to make a profit, but to break even.

Seriously read the financial report of a pharma before you complain about their bottom line. Take Pfizer, check their stock write up - Pfizer Inc. They break even and they're not even spending that much on research and development (because they can't afford to, that means no new drugs not a good thing at all.)

Here more in depth - Pfizer Income Statement for 2016, 2015 - Amigobulls -- They're bringing in 40B and their net profit is 7B. They couldn't even weather a single bad year right now, they don't have the reserves (which come out of profits.) They are in deeep shit financially despite your idea that they're making money hand over fist, they are actually operating with such a dangerously low reserve (profit) that they could go under at the slightest drop of a hat.

Check this shit out - PFE Income Statement Compare 2013 to 2016... They're spending their reserves to pay for ACA's cuts into their profit - expect them to have to raise prices again because they're down like 3% since last year and it's only going to get worse...

 

[charwin95]

1. Uninsured people, or people who fucking don't pay? I'm uninsured, but I pay my damn bills.
2. Waahhhh. Fuck off.
3. I pay my bills kiss off. Illegals shouldn't be using our fucking shit, they should be deported. I'd go under, and I'd sue the clients for not paying, if I got the money out of them okay, if not like all businesses I'd have to fucking suck it up because no one would ever come to my rescue with magic money out of nowhere. Part of the risk of doing business, sometimes you get your clock fucking cleaned - thus why a good deal of the "rich" in this nation go broke. I lost two businesses myself (not bankrupt, one I broke my wrist and couldn't' continue, the second my clients went under so that was that. I lost about $50k, just poof no more oops - no one helped, no one gave a shit cause that's the way it is in business.)

My dear. The world is not about fuck this and fuck that. If most or all Americans think like you then this country will be so fucked up as it is.

1. Un insured people like you and illegals are the one screwing our system. What happened if you or other people used up all their savings and can no longer afford let say continuous treatment of chemotherapy or dialysis? Dialysis is about $53k to $72k a year then multiply that to how many years. There goes your house and your savings. Transplant is around $280k and that is just the xplant. Diabetes, cancer etc etc etc------ Go bankrupt then ER as your primary care? I'm honored that you pay your bills.
2 & 3. Fuck off? I'm not here to convince you how to manage your your health care but it bothers me how you display your irresponsible arrogance.
I sense anger, frustration and stress. Stress also affects your mitosis process --------- cells reproduce or die prematurely. Your are 40s our organs and body deteriorate and will not work efficiently as we get older. Let see how tough you are 5 to 10 years from now.

Alaska is the fourth highest share of population that lacked health insurance. And third as the highest crime rate.

 

[charwin95]

Actually the downfall of the health care problem is always pharma - long term meds for peoples bad habits, diabetes etc. they are UNFEASIBLE for a "socialist" medical plan to cover, by insurance or by flat pay. They are too damned expensive for so many damn people to be on them. (FYI part of how ACA "paid for itself" was by taxing pharma JS)

Yes and no------- one of the major contributors of high cost is from uninsured people.

 

[Rustic]

1. Uninsured people, or people who fucking don't pay? I'm uninsured, but I pay my damn bills.
2. Waahhhh. Fuck off.
3. I pay my bills kiss off. Illegals shouldn't be using our fucking shit, they should be deported. I'd go under, and I'd sue the clients for not paying, if I got the money out of them okay, if not like all businesses I'd have to fucking suck it up because no one would ever come to my rescue with magic money out of nowhere. Part of the risk of doing business, sometimes you get your clock fucking cleaned - thus why a good deal of the "rich" in this nation go broke. I lost two businesses myself (not bankrupt, one I broke my wrist and couldn't' continue, the second my clients went under so that was that. I lost about $50k, just poof no more oops - no one helped, no one gave a shit cause that's the way it is in business.)

My dear. The world is not about fuck this and fuck that. If most or all Americans think like you then this country will be so fucked up as it is.

1. Un insured people like you and illegals are the one screwing our system. What happened if you or other people used up all their savings and can no longer afford let say continuous treatment of chemotherapy or dialysis? Dialysis is about $53k to $72k a year then multiply that to how many years. There goes your house and your savings. Transplant is around $280k and that is just the xplant. Diabetes, cancer etc etc etc------ Go bankrupt then ER as your primary care? I'm honored that you pay your bills.
2 & 3. Fuck off? I'm not here to convince you how to manage your your health care but it bothers me how you display your irresponsible arrogance.
I sense anger, frustration and stress. Stress also affects your mitosis process --------- cells reproduce or die prematurely. Your are 40s our organs and body deteriorate and will not work efficiently as we get older. Let see how tough you are 5 to 10 years from now.

Alaska is the fourth highest share of population that lacked health insurance. And third as the highest crime rate.

Only a fool would trust insurance companies or even the concept to back someone up, the whole concept of insurance as fucked up as is paying into a pool...
never trust the collective

 

[jc456]

[Q

You know who else does work? It's called the working poor. Thankfully they can receive assistance regardless of being demonized by some for it.

The working poor would have a lot more money if they didn't vote for Liberals that screwed up the economy, wouldn't they?

Just think of all those working poor that voted for Obama and they got increased poverty, decreased family income, increase income disparity and dismal economic growth. They were dumbasses, weren't they?

The best way to stop being poor is to stop voting for Liberals.

It was Liberals who got our economy back on track. It was liberals who gave safety nets to the working poor while people on this forum want to take it away.

The best way to stop the poor from being poorer is to vote for Liberals. Tax cuts for the wealthy don't create jobs. They keep it for themselves and some of them will resort to automation even if you give them money.

you are correct, the libs are the ones that started the spiral march to being insolvent. you got it bubba,

 

[charwin95]

1. Uninsured people, or people who fucking don't pay? I'm uninsured, but I pay my damn bills.
2. Waahhhh. Fuck off.
3. I pay my bills kiss off. Illegals shouldn't be using our fucking shit, they should be deported. I'd go under, and I'd sue the clients for not paying, if I got the money out of them okay, if not like all businesses I'd have to fucking suck it up because no one would ever come to my rescue with magic money out of nowhere. Part of the risk of doing business, sometimes you get your clock fucking cleaned - thus why a good deal of the "rich" in this nation go broke. I lost two businesses myself (not bankrupt, one I broke my wrist and couldn't' continue, the second my clients went under so that was that. I lost about $50k, just poof no more oops - no one helped, no one gave a shit cause that's the way it is in business.)

My dear. The world is not about fuck this and fuck that. If most or all Americans think like you then this country will be so fucked up as it is.

1. Un insured people like you and illegals are the one screwing our system. What happened if you or other people used up all their savings and can no longer afford let say continuous treatment of chemotherapy or dialysis? Dialysis is about $53k to $72k a year then multiply that to how many years. There goes your house and your savings. Transplant is around $280k and that is just the xplant. Diabetes, cancer etc etc etc------ Go bankrupt then ER as your primary care? I'm honored that you pay your bills.
2 & 3. Fuck off? I'm not here to convince you how to manage your your health care but it bothers me how you display your irresponsible arrogance.
I sense anger, frustration and stress. Stress also affects your mitosis process --------- cells reproduce or die prematurely. Your are 40s our organs and body deteriorate and will not work efficiently as we get older. Let see how tough you are 5 to 10 years from now.

Alaska is the fourth highest share of population that lacked health insurance. And third as the highest crime rate.

Only a fool would trust insurance companies or even the concept to back someone up, the whole concept of insurance as fucked up as is paying into a pool...
never trust the collective

Another uninsured citizen. You can afford to armed yourself to the teeth with massive arsenals in your basement but you don't have health insurance. What's up with that?
All you've got to do is give up one of your Apache AH-64 or M109A6 Paladin howitzer.

Your buddy Trump is pushing for health care. Are you saying your god is a fool?

 

[Flopper]

It would be patently irresponsible for an insurance company to /not/ carry profit enough to handle running their business in a down turn.

Again - 208% increase in prices and there was a 148% increase in the cost of developing a drug for market, they were forced to give a 50% discount on drugs for every American over 65 (Can you say baby boomers?) On top of that they were taxed. That's $80 Billion they have to make up for in the 10 years after ACA's passage to even break /even/ - not even to make a profit, but to break even.

Seriously read the financial report of a pharma before you complain about their bottom line. Take Pfizer, check their stock write up - Pfizer Inc. They break even and they're not even spending that much on research and development (because they can't afford to, that means no new drugs not a good thing at all.)

Here more in depth - Pfizer Income Statement for 2016, 2015 - Amigobulls -- They're bringing in 40B and their net profit is 7B. They couldn't even weather a single bad year right now, they don't have the reserves (which come out of profits.) They are in deeep shit financially despite your idea that they're making money hand over fist, they are actually operating with such a dangerously low reserve (profit) that they could go under at the slightest drop of a hat.

Check this shit out - PFE Income Statement Compare 2013 to 2016... They're spending their reserves to pay for ACA's cuts into their profit - expect them to have to raise prices again because they're down like 3% since last year and it's only going to get worse...

Even with the ACA tax on drug manufactures, the top 10 drug companies had profits ranging from a low 4.47 billion to a high 15.94 billion in 2016. If republicans are successful, the drug companies can look for a tax cut that will add 30 billion more to profits. It looks like 2017 drug company prices will increase by 11.7% beating their record 11.3% increase in 2016. With no chance of legislation to allow Medicare, the largest purchaser of drugs to negotiate prices, no real completion in the brand name market, and insurance company formulates increasing coverage, prices will just go up and up as will insurance premiums.

 

[danielpalos]

n return for those millions spent on promoting Obamacare, big pharma gets the privilege of spending even more money. Lots more money. For starters, the drugmakers must provide higher rebates to Medicaid for prescription drugs. This expanded rebate program will cost the industry around $20 billion over the next 10 years.

Pharmaceutical companies must also pay new excise taxes on branded drugs. Those taxes amounted to $5.3 billion over the past two years. By 2021, the cumulative total for the new taxes will top $30 billion. Since the amount a given company must pay is based on its percentage of total drug sales in the previous year, big pharma will pay the biggest bucks with this tax.

Filling part of the Medicare Part D "doughnut hole" will cost another $30 billion. Pharma companies must discount prices by 50% to senior citizens who reach the level of spending where this coverage gap exists. The grand total price tag for all of these new taxes, fees, and rebates for the industry over the next 10 years comes in at $80 billion. After helping to derail HillaryCare in the 1990s, were the folks at Pfizer, J&J, and other big pharmaceutical companies crazy to jump aboard Obamacare?

- Is Obamacare a Disaster Waiting to Happen for Big Pharma? -- The Motley Fool

Now we all know the pharma isn't paying that bill yea? $80b over 10 yrs, all to be paid by the patients. And it was unfeasible /before/ ACA taxed the bloody fuck out of pharma. It was the ticking time bomb of ACA and we pretty much knew it from the beginning. As the investor says: "My hunch is that big pharma might have gotten a better return on that $150 million spent on promoting Obamacare from another investment -- like maybe developing new and improved drugs."

Sorry, but I really can't feel sorry for big pharma with an average profit margin of over 20%, twice that of the average S&P500 company and profits of over 85 billion a year.

Nothing stops drug companies from charging the highest price the market will bear. They have increased their prices 208% in 8 years The FDA encourages it and their 20 year patents protect them from competition. The result, prices that make little sense, but lots of profits.
Why Prescription Drugs Cost So Much - AARP

Maybe Congress can help with better "amortization" for R&D costs.

 

[Doc1]

Question for the Lefty's, what's the difference between Medicaid and Medicare, and the ACA?

Another government mandate.

Would a "national health care tax" be more efficient?

Kudos for a good guess. The answer is price control. Not within the insurance itself, but pertaining to the service providers. Both of those programs simply tell them that "We will pay X amount", take it or leave it. As expansive as those programs are I would still classify them on a micro scale, I'm not smart enough to know how it would work on a macro scale. Funding will ALWAYS be the issue.

How is that different from the ACA?

The ACA does not tell providers what they can charge. A PPO involves Lawyers from Insurers and Providers sitting down to negotiate the in and out of network charges. Medicare and Medicate simply dictate what will be paid on a take it or leave it basis.

 

[Doc1]

n return for those millions spent on promoting Obamacare, big pharma gets the privilege of spending even more money. Lots more money. For starters, the drugmakers must provide higher rebates to Medicaid for prescription drugs. This expanded rebate program will cost the industry around $20 billion over the next 10 years.

Pharmaceutical companies must also pay new excise taxes on branded drugs. Those taxes amounted to $5.3 billion over the past two years. By 2021, the cumulative total for the new taxes will top $30 billion. Since the amount a given company must pay is based on its percentage of total drug sales in the previous year, big pharma will pay the biggest bucks with this tax.

Filling part of the Medicare Part D "doughnut hole" will cost another $30 billion. Pharma companies must discount prices by 50% to senior citizens who reach the level of spending where this coverage gap exists. The grand total price tag for all of these new taxes, fees, and rebates for the industry over the next 10 years comes in at $80 billion. After helping to derail HillaryCare in the 1990s, were the folks at Pfizer, J&J, and other big pharmaceutical companies crazy to jump aboard Obamacare?

- Is Obamacare a Disaster Waiting to Happen for Big Pharma? -- The Motley Fool

Now we all know the pharma isn't paying that bill yea? $80b over 10 yrs, all to be paid by the patients. And it was unfeasible /before/ ACA taxed the bloody fuck out of pharma. It was the ticking time bomb of ACA and we pretty much knew it from the beginning. As the investor says: "My hunch is that big pharma might have gotten a better return on that $150 million spent on promoting Obamacare from another investment -- like maybe developing new and improved drugs."

Sorry, but I really can't feel sorry for big pharma with an average profit margin of over 20%, twice that of the average S&P500 company and profits of over 85 billion a year.

Nothing stops drug companies from charging the highest price the market will bear. They have increased their prices 208% in 8 years The FDA encourages it and their 20 year patents protect them from competition. The result, prices that make little sense, but lots of profits.
Why Prescription Drugs Cost So Much - AARP

Maybe Congress can help with better "amortization" for R&D costs.

Better yet Congress can cut FDA costs to drug companies.

 

[Rustic]

1. Uninsured people, or people who fucking don't pay? I'm uninsured, but I pay my damn bills.
2. Waahhhh. Fuck off.
3. I pay my bills kiss off. Illegals shouldn't be using our fucking shit, they should be deported. I'd go under, and I'd sue the clients for not paying, if I got the money out of them okay, if not like all businesses I'd have to fucking suck it up because no one would ever come to my rescue with magic money out of nowhere. Part of the risk of doing business, sometimes you get your clock fucking cleaned - thus why a good deal of the "rich" in this nation go broke. I lost two businesses myself (not bankrupt, one I broke my wrist and couldn't' continue, the second my clients went under so that was that. I lost about $50k, just poof no more oops - no one helped, no one gave a shit cause that's the way it is in business.)

My dear. The world is not about fuck this and fuck that. If most or all Americans think like you then this country will be so fucked up as it is.

1. Un insured people like you and illegals are the one screwing our system. What happened if you or other people used up all their savings and can no longer afford let say continuous treatment of chemotherapy or dialysis? Dialysis is about $53k to $72k a year then multiply that to how many years. There goes your house and your savings. Transplant is around $280k and that is just the xplant. Diabetes, cancer etc etc etc------ Go bankrupt then ER as your primary care? I'm honored that you pay your bills.
2 & 3. Fuck off? I'm not here to convince you how to manage your your health care but it bothers me how you display your irresponsible arrogance.
I sense anger, frustration and stress. Stress also affects your mitosis process --------- cells reproduce or die prematurely. Your are 40s our organs and body deteriorate and will not work efficiently as we get older. Let see how tough you are 5 to 10 years from now.

Alaska is the fourth highest share of population that lacked health insurance. And third as the highest crime rate.

Only a fool would trust insurance companies or even the concept to back someone up, the whole concept of insurance as fucked up as is paying into a pool...
never trust the collective

Another uninsured citizen. You can afford to armed yourself to the teeth with massive arsenals in your basement but you don't have health insurance. What's up with that?
All you've got to do is give up one of your Apache AH-64 or M109A6 Paladin howitzer.

Your buddy Trump is pushing for health care. Are you saying your god is a fool?

I don't care to pay for something that might happen, forcing someone to do that is legalized extortion. Insurance is not healthcare and insurance does not make life better.

 

[Rustic]

It would be patently irresponsible for an insurance company to /not/ carry profit enough to handle running their business in a down turn.

Again - 208% increase in prices and there was a 148% increase in the cost of developing a drug for market, they were forced to give a 50% discount on drugs for every American over 65 (Can you say baby boomers?) On top of that they were taxed. That's $80 Billion they have to make up for in the 10 years after ACA's passage to even break /even/ - not even to make a profit, but to break even.

Seriously read the financial report of a pharma before you complain about their bottom line. Take Pfizer, check their stock write up - Pfizer Inc. They break even and they're not even spending that much on research and development (because they can't afford to, that means no new drugs not a good thing at all.)

Here more in depth - Pfizer Income Statement for 2016, 2015 - Amigobulls -- They're bringing in 40B and their net profit is 7B. They couldn't even weather a single bad year right now, they don't have the reserves (which come out of profits.) They are in deeep shit financially despite your idea that they're making money hand over fist, they are actually operating with such a dangerously low reserve (profit) that they could go under at the slightest drop of a hat.

Check this shit out - PFE Income Statement Compare 2013 to 2016... They're spending their reserves to pay for ACA's cuts into their profit - expect them to have to raise prices again because they're down like 3% since last year and it's only going to get worse...

Even with the ACA tax on drug manufactures, the top 10 drug companies had profits ranging from a low 4.47 billion to a high 15.94 billion in 2016. If republicans are successful, the drug companies can look for a tax cut that will add 30 billion more to profits. It looks like 2017 drug company prices will increase by 11.7% beating their record 11.3% increase in 2016. With no chance of legislation to allow Medicare, the largest purchaser of drugs to negotiate prices, no real completion in the brand name market, and insurance company formulates increasing coverage, prices will just go up and up as will insurance premiums.

It's none of your business who makes what…

 

[Cellblock2429]

Sanders: How can you call it 'reform' when millions will lose insurance?

Nice one repubs, good luck with your pile of shit.

/--- it was ok for folks to lose their coverage under Obozocare. That was done with compassion

 

[Little-Acorn]

Sanders: How can you call it 'reform' when millions will lose insurance?

Nice one repubs, good luck with your pile of shit.

Looks like the liberal who started this fake thread, is still refusing to change the title despite being debunked time and again. He's apparently still obeying his mentor Dr. Goebbels, who said that if you tell a big enough lie, often enough, people will believe it.

It's the usual leftist fib. No one's losing anything.

The Obamacare law that forced everybody to sign up whether they wanted to or not, is gone now. Everybody can remain signed up to whatever they had before if they want to, no one loses anything.

But at least the leftist hysterics were able to take advantage of their own lie to call names and falsely accuse Republicans even more.

 

[EverCurious]

Yes I am pissed off. I've gone my entire adult life, almost 30 years, specifically hating health insurance as the total ripoff scam and waste it is. Now the federal government is trying to tell me that I /must/ have something I hate and do not need, and further that I have to pay for every other smuck bag that didn't plan their shit out to pay their own god damn insurance bills - or medical bills as the case may be.

I have /never/ not paid a medical bill - even when my husband hit a moose at 65 and broke his fucking neck - roughly $12k, paid out of pocket no fucking problem. It is not /my/ fault that you other assholes are underacheivers who can't plan for your own medical expenses. I don't want to pay for you, nor the illegals who pour over our fucking border and abuse our EMTALA thus driving up the medical costs.

I'm sick of idiots blaming everyone else for the problems they cause themselves. I don't want illegals, I don't want welfare so why the fuck should I have to pay for it? Oh because what? Living in the soon to be socialist failure of the US is such a fucking privilege as the freeloading liberals take away more and more prosperity and tax my kind more and more to pay for their shitty ass utopian free shit society (which they sell only to get votes) the whole process disgusts me... Slightly off topic perhaps but it's all god damn related...

 

[Doc1]

Yes I am pissed off. I've gone my entire adult life, almost 30 years, specifically hating health insurance as the total ripoff scam and waste it is. Now the federal government is trying to tell me that I /must/ have something I hate and do not need, and further that I have to pay for every other smuck bag that didn't plan their shit out to pay their own god damn insurance bills - or medical bills as the case may be.

I have /never/ not paid a medical bill - even when my husband hit a moose at 65 and broke his fucking neck - roughly $12k, paid out of pocket no fucking problem. It is not /my/ fault that you other assholes are underacheivers who can't plan for your own medical expenses. I don't want to pay for you, nor the illegals who pour over our fucking border and abuse our EMTALA thus driving up the medical costs.

I'm sick of idiots blaming everyone else for the problems they cause themselves. I don't want illegals, I don't want welfare so why the fuck should I have to pay for it? Oh because what? Living in the soon to be socialist failure of the US is such a fucking privilege as the freeloading liberals take away more and more prosperity and tax my kind more and more to pay for their shitty ass utopian free shit society (which they sell only to get votes) the whole process disgusts me... Slightly off topic perhaps but it's all god damn related...

Well ok then.

 

[EverCurious]

Oh and lets not forget the fucking victim hood society you lefty idiots are pushing. Every left wing fruit loop I know is on at least three fucking meds, and they seriously crow about what their on as though it's a badge of honor. It's /cool/ to need drugs to get through life for these pussies. It's just pathetic ~sigh~

 

[EverCurious]

Also those were meant as reply to charwin95 but I forgot to tag them cause I'm irritated by the "whats yours is mine" crap. I spent my entire life planning for my retirement, planning for the lifestyle that /I/ wanted to have. The left wants to take more and more from me. It's stealing and it chased my friends out of the country. I don't want to leave the US because I love what America was when I was growing up - but the left is destroying it by greed and it irks me...