Millions lose coverage

[Doc1]

Question for the Lefty's, what's the difference between Medicaid and Medicare, and the ACA?

Is that supposed to be a serious question?

Absolutely, and contained in the answer is the reason that Medicaid/Medicare are better off financially than the ACA is.

 

[Doc1]

Question for the Lefty's, what's the difference between Medicaid and Medicare, and the ACA?

Another government mandate.

Would a "national health care tax" be more efficient?

Kudos for a good guess. The answer is price control. Not within the insurance itself, but pertaining to the service providers. Both of those programs simply tell them that "We will pay X amount", take it or leave it. As expansive as those programs are I would still classify them on a micro scale, I'm not smart enough to know how it would work on a macro scale. Funding will ALWAYS be the issue.

 

[jc456]

well they at least do some work.

That is stereotyping. Congress often does no work at all.

sure is, and they do some work. Hey, libs can stereotype I'll stereotype I'm good with that You?

You know who else does work? It's called the working poor. Thankfully they can receive assistance regardless of being demonized by some for it.

a few, but the most, no.

I have never gone on welfare and would only go on welfare as a last resort, but who are you to tell me I shouldn't receive assistance if I fall on hard times, lose work and have nothing to fall back on? There are people who work from paycheck to paycheck in this country and receiving extra help is a necessity for many.

one of the many whose money would then fund your sorry ass. that's fking who I am.

 

[charwin95]

I do not get you people wanting to throw your money at insurance companies at all. You DO NOT need health insurance, period. Get a fucking credit card and don't fucking use it unless your sick - you'll save more money than you know what to do with.

43 year old executive, /never/ had medical insurance in my life and I refuse to. Don't fucking need it, don't want it, and I sure as hell don't want to pay for anyone else to throw money at insurance companies like dumb asses... Auto insurance at least made a little sense because the person being hit was out money to fix their car when they had no fault - insurance forced the other party to have some form of currency to fix that injustice. Health insurance is nothing but a game of stealing, and when you've got deductibles of $10 grand and shit, plus another $10 grand a year it's made even worse a theft with no benefactors in need of justice. It's complete crap top to bottom, stop falling for bullshit you morons; dumb decisions like this are why you fucks will end up poor.

Consider yourself lucky. Typical attitude of 40s women greater confidence than ever but that is your business.
HOWEVER this does not give you the immunity of major illnesses. If you said you are an executive-------- then most of these people suffer from high blood pressure, heart problems, diabetes, cancers and other major health problems-------- Not aware they already have it. Suddenly they just collapse just like a car without maintenance. Like stress alone produces lots of bad enzymes that accumulates in your system.
How many times did we hear ----- He/she loooooks good and thin ------ then died of stroke or heart attack.
Since you don't care and don't give a shit you probably don't understand ------------ when/why you are suffering from -------- calf pain, low/high sugar, heart rhythm irregularities, dizziness, stomach aches, sudden sadness/anxiety or red face.
Remember it's just money. Health is more important than being tough or street smart.

I'm in the medical instruments business which includes consumables and reagents. I make my living from sick people.

1. In other words you making a living charging more because it's insurance, just like all the other doctors.

2. I don't have stress or any of that pain stuff. Got a knee that's going out though. At some point, I'll go get that replaced I suppose - I'll pay cash (less than folks who have insurance do) and that'll be that. It is not my fault if folks don't plan ahead for their own shit.

3. I didn't make these other idiots work a shitty job for their entire lives and not save anything up for their own medical care (or worse, make them blow their money on stupid shit like the latest iphone every year or two and a new car every 5.) Who's going to come out of the wood work to pay for my shit? Why /should/ I have to pay for getting my knee replaced or whatever when everyone else shluffs it off on someone else? Why can't I keep /my/ money to pay for shit I want, like $10k computers and a $200k endless pool addition to my house, and $15k to replace the roof... I have things I would rather spend my money on too, but no one fucking pays my shit.

Fuck em, they wanna throw /their/ money in the toilet, I won't stop them, but don't come crying to me about paying for it. Get a better job and pay for it yourself - or go the fuck without because you wanted to buy something else more than you gave a shit about setting money aside for your own medical care needs.

1. No. I make more money when more people get sick. Means more consumables and instruments I sold more money I make. America is not getting healthier but it's getting sicker.
2. Lifetime executives tend to get used to the normal heat/stress to job related problems but it does accumulate.
3. If all Americans think like you -------- Then we do not need any health insurance at all.
3.1 Generally ER will be the primary care. Result hospitals will just close, bankrupt or sick will just die.
3.2 Your knee. What happened then someone just had a heart attack or diagnosed with cancer. Will file bankruptcy, loss savings and house to survive?

 

[Flopper]

Insurance companies are whiney , greedy brats. They are doing very well with Obama care. They are making tons of money!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/18/business/health-insurers-profit.html?_r=0

Selected excerpts:

Over the last few years, big managed care companies like UnitedHealth Group have contributed to the furor over the fate of the Affordable Care Act by saying that important parts of it are fundamentally flawed.

But Obamacare hasn’t been a curse for the managed care companies. Over all, based on their share performance, it has been something of a blessing.

Since March 2010, when the Affordable Care Act was signed into law, the managed care companies within the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index — UnitedHealth, Aetna, Anthem, Cigna, Humana and Centene — have risen far more than the overall stock index. This is no small matter: The stock market soared during that period.

“If Obamacare has been bad for the managed care stocks, why have they performed so well under it?” asked Paul Hickey, a founder of Bespoke Investment Group. “And do they really need to be rescued by Congress?”

The answers are complex but boil down to this: Basically, several analysts on Wall Street and in Washington said, the underlying businesses of the big managed care companies have actually done extremely well under Obamacare. They have run into some problems but are hardly in need of a rescue.

The companies have notched profits — from expansion of Medicaid, for example, and from services aimed at cutting medical costs — while learning how to insulate themselves from parts of the law that have crimped their income. They have diversified, earning money from businesses that include data management, outpatient clinics and surgical services, as well as traditional health insurance.

They are making a lot of money from government programs like Medicaid and Medicare — and they are likely to keep doing so,” he said, regardless of what happens in Washington.

Making so much they are leaving the exchanges.

Insurance companies are whiney , greedy brats. They are doing very well with Obama care. They are making tons of money!

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/18/business/health-insurers-profit.html?_r=0

Selected excerpts:

Over the last few years, big managed care companies like UnitedHealth Group have contributed to the furor over the fate of the Affordable Care Act by saying that important parts of it are fundamentally flawed.

But Obamacare hasn’t been a curse for the managed care companies. Over all, based on their share performance, it has been something of a blessing.

Since March 2010, when the Affordable Care Act was signed into law, the managed care companies within the Standard & Poor’s 500-stock index — UnitedHealth, Aetna, Anthem, Cigna, Humana and Centene — have risen far more than the overall stock index. This is no small matter: The stock market soared during that period.

“If Obamacare has been bad for the managed care stocks, why have they performed so well under it?” asked Paul Hickey, a founder of Bespoke Investment Group. “And do they really need to be rescued by Congress?”

The answers are complex but boil down to this: Basically, several analysts on Wall Street and in Washington said, the underlying businesses of the big managed care companies have actually done extremely well under Obamacare. They have run into some problems but are hardly in need of a rescue.

The companies have notched profits — from expansion of Medicaid, for example, and from services aimed at cutting medical costs — while learning how to insulate themselves from parts of the law that have crimped their income. They have diversified, earning money from businesses that include data management, outpatient clinics and surgical services, as well as traditional health insurance.

They are making a lot of money from government programs like Medicaid and Medicare — and they are likely to keep doing so,” he said, regardless of what happens in Washington.

Of course, that's why they are all bailing on the ACA. Good lord.

Insurance companies are leaving the exchanges because there are fewer and fewer healthy people signing up for insurance forcing premiums/deductibles up making health insurance less attractive for young healthy customers. There are a number of factors involved.

• In both Obamacare and the republican healthcare bill, those under age 26 can remain on their parents plan. This requirement removes a lot of healthy young customers from the exchanges.
• The Obamacare coverage mandate with it's low penalty has done little to encourage young healthy customers to buy insurance from the exchanges. The republican plan that eliminates the mandate will make it worse by encouraging more healthy customers to skip buying insurance.
• Falling unemployment, particular for younger workers has cut the number buying on the exchanges, opting for less expensive employee sponsored coverage. The improvement in unemployment which has helped younger workers has not helped older workers as much, thus leaving them as high risk customers on the exchange.

What needs to happen is the provision in Obamacare that allows the government to absorb more of the cost of insuring high risk customers on exchanges needs to be increased. This will stabilize the market. In effect this is what is going to be done in the republican bill. If it doesn't this problem worsen.

 

[easyt65]

'Millions lose coverage'

Considering EVERYONE with Obamacare was going to lose health insurance when the ACA finally collapsed, as it was doing...how many people just had their health insurance SAVED by being offered insurance from an alternate plan (which has not even been finalized yet - the ACA has NOT been replaced yet'?

 

[EverCurious]

I do not get you people wanting to throw your money at insurance companies at all. You DO NOT need health insurance, period. Get a fucking credit card and don't fucking use it unless your sick - you'll save more money than you know what to do with.

43 year old executive, /never/ had medical insurance in my life and I refuse to. Don't fucking need it, don't want it, and I sure as hell don't want to pay for anyone else to throw money at insurance companies like dumb asses... Auto insurance at least made a little sense because the person being hit was out money to fix their car when they had no fault - insurance forced the other party to have some form of currency to fix that injustice. Health insurance is nothing but a game of stealing, and when you've got deductibles of $10 grand and shit, plus another $10 grand a year it's made even worse a theft with no benefactors in need of justice. It's complete crap top to bottom, stop falling for bullshit you morons; dumb decisions like this are why you fucks will end up poor.

Consider yourself lucky. Typical attitude of 40s women greater confidence than ever but that is your business.
HOWEVER this does not give you the immunity of major illnesses. If you said you are an executive-------- then most of these people suffer from high blood pressure, heart problems, diabetes, cancers and other major health problems-------- Not aware they already have it. Suddenly they just collapse just like a car without maintenance. Like stress alone produces lots of bad enzymes that accumulates in your system.
How many times did we hear ----- He/she loooooks good and thin ------ then died of stroke or heart attack.
Since you don't care and don't give a shit you probably don't understand ------------ when/why you are suffering from -------- calf pain, low/high sugar, heart rhythm irregularities, dizziness, stomach aches, sudden sadness/anxiety or red face.
Remember it's just money. Health is more important than being tough or street smart.

I'm in the medical instruments business which includes consumables and reagents. I make my living from sick people.

1. In other words you making a living charging more because it's insurance, just like all the other doctors.

2. I don't have stress or any of that pain stuff. Got a knee that's going out though. At some point, I'll go get that replaced I suppose - I'll pay cash (less than folks who have insurance do) and that'll be that. It is not my fault if folks don't plan ahead for their own shit.

3. I didn't make these other idiots work a shitty job for their entire lives and not save anything up for their own medical care (or worse, make them blow their money on stupid shit like the latest iphone every year or two and a new car every 5.) Who's going to come out of the wood work to pay for my shit? Why /should/ I have to pay for getting my knee replaced or whatever when everyone else shluffs it off on someone else? Why can't I keep /my/ money to pay for shit I want, like $10k computers and a $200k endless pool addition to my house, and $15k to replace the roof... I have things I would rather spend my money on too, but no one fucking pays my shit.

Fuck em, they wanna throw /their/ money in the toilet, I won't stop them, but don't come crying to me about paying for it. Get a better job and pay for it yourself - or go the fuck without because you wanted to buy something else more than you gave a shit about setting money aside for your own medical care needs.

1. No. I make more money when more people get sick. Means more consumables and instruments I sold more money I make. America is not getting healthier but it's getting sicker.
2. Lifetime executives tend to get used to the normal heat/stress to job related problems but it does accumulate.
3. If all Americans think like you -------- Then we do not need any health insurance at all.
3.1 Generally ER will be the primary care. Result hospitals will just close, bankrupt or sick will just die.
3.2 Your knee. What happened then someone just had a heart attack or diagnosed with cancer. Will file bankruptcy, loss savings and house to survive?

1. So you're kind of like a vampire heh Peeps ain't getting sicker, they're going to the doctor for stupid fucking shit like sneezing.
2. Never bothered me nor anyone I know. Maybe folks are just too pussified to handle stress?
3. You're right, we don't need insurance, it's a money scam.
Oh bummer...
Well if hospitals can't run their shit on budget then they should close. I bet you most folks won't get sick and die, they'll learn to fucking use a Kleenex though.
Bummer. Uhm who's going to pay for my heart attack? When my husband hit a moose how come no one offered to pay for it? Sucks if you don't plan ahead for emergencies - perhaps folks should.

HEY maybe we should stop paying the medical bills for all the illegals? 11-21M illegals using our hospitals ER as doctors and we're paying for it. Yay...

 

[Flopper]

'Millions lose coverage'

Considering EVERYONE with Obamacare was going to lose health insurance when the ACA finally collapsed, as it was doing...how many people just had their health insurance SAVED by being offered insurance from an alternate plan (which has not even been finalized yet - the ACA has NOT been replaced yet'?

The ACA will not be replaced. The only legislation that will pass the Senate is a budget reconciliation bill because Republicans do not have 60 votes in the Senate. A reconciliation bill can contain only legislation that changes government spending and revenue. Therefore it can not repeal Obamacare nor remove most of regulations on insurance companies and healthcare providers. In the end there will be 2 major healthcare laws, the Affordable Care Act and the American Healthcare law that will likely be the forerunners of the a single payer system.

 

[Flopper]

'Millions lose coverage'

Considering EVERYONE with Obamacare was going to lose health insurance when the ACA finally collapsed, as it was doing...how many people just had their health insurance SAVED by being offered insurance from an alternate plan (which has not even been finalized yet - the ACA has NOT been replaced yet'?

The demise of the ACA has been greatly exaggerated for obvious reasons. It has been projected that 5 states will have only one healthcare insurer on the exchanges in 2017. However, negotiations have not been concluded, so there may well be more. The average number of insurers on the exchanges that customers have to choose from is 4.

The ACA is far more than just exchanges. It includes employee sponsored insurance, Medicaid, and to some extent Medicare. This is where 80% of the people get their insurance coverage. Only 14% purchase from the exchanges. Since most of the problems have been with exchanges, people tend to identify the ACA with the exchanges but in fact, they are a fairly small portion of the healthcare marketplace.

 

[easyt65]

The ACA will not be replaced. The only legislation that will pass the Senate is a budget reconciliation bill because Republicans do not have 60 votes in the Senate. A reconciliation bill can contain only legislation that changes government spending and revenue. Therefore it can not repeal Obamacare nor remove most of regulations on insurance companies and healthcare providers. In the end there will be 2 major healthcare laws, the Affordable Care Act and the American Healthcare law that will likely be the forerunners of the a single payer system.

Unfortunately you are probably 'spot on'. McConnell is a gutless coward who has shown his hand in the past - leading votes to replace the ACA when it never mattered, and folding like a cheap suit when it did. The GOP will never change until Matt Ryan - Boehner's 'Sith Apprentice' - and 'Mitchie-Rich' are driven from the halls of Congress.

 

[easyt65]

The ACA is far more than just exchanges. It includes employee sponsored insurance, Medicaid, and to some extent Medicare. This is where 80% of the people get their insurance coverage. Only 14% purchase from the exchanges. Since most of the problems have been with exchanges, people tend to identify the ACA with the exchanges but in fact, they are a fairly small portion of the healthcare marketplace.

And all of the good things you just mentioned could be included in a bill that was not as disastrous as the ACA, which all but destroyed the existing health care system, stripped people of the freedom to completely choose for themselves what they needed / wanted / was best for them, and imposed the government's will on the people by forcing the govt's decision of what minimum coverage should be / include and forcing all Americans to buy a product or be hit with a punitive monetary tax.

Part of the same problem with the ACA will be the same problem with the GOP bill (if they ever pass one) and that is the refusal of the leading dumbasses in both parties refusing to work together on what is best for the American people.

Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and the about 32 other 'Openly Obstructionist' Party-1st Democrats who want nothing more than Trump to fail should be booted from Congress at the 1st opportunity, ALONG WITH Ryan, McConnell, and the GOP dumbasses who are doing the same thing (refusing to work with the Dems). I don't care what Party they claim to be, if they prove incapable of working together - or just flat-out refuse to - for the good of the country they need to be booted.

 

[charwin95]

I do not get you people wanting to throw your money at insurance companies at all. You DO NOT need health insurance, period. Get a fucking credit card and don't fucking use it unless your sick - you'll save more money than you know what to do with.

43 year old executive, /never/ had medical insurance in my life and I refuse to. Don't fucking need it, don't want it, and I sure as hell don't want to pay for anyone else to throw money at insurance companies like dumb asses... Auto insurance at least made a little sense because the person being hit was out money to fix their car when they had no fault - insurance forced the other party to have some form of currency to fix that injustice. Health insurance is nothing but a game of stealing, and when you've got deductibles of $10 grand and shit, plus another $10 grand a year it's made even worse a theft with no benefactors in need of justice. It's complete crap top to bottom, stop falling for bullshit you morons; dumb decisions like this are why you fucks will end up poor.

Consider yourself lucky. Typical attitude of 40s women greater confidence than ever but that is your business.
HOWEVER this does not give you the immunity of major illnesses. If you said you are an executive-------- then most of these people suffer from high blood pressure, heart problems, diabetes, cancers and other major health problems-------- Not aware they already have it. Suddenly they just collapse just like a car without maintenance. Like stress alone produces lots of bad enzymes that accumulates in your system.
How many times did we hear ----- He/she loooooks good and thin ------ then died of stroke or heart attack.
Since you don't care and don't give a shit you probably don't understand ------------ when/why you are suffering from -------- calf pain, low/high sugar, heart rhythm irregularities, dizziness, stomach aches, sudden sadness/anxiety or red face.
Remember it's just money. Health is more important than being tough or street smart.

I'm in the medical instruments business which includes consumables and reagents. I make my living from sick people.

1. In other words you making a living charging more because it's insurance, just like all the other doctors.

2. I don't have stress or any of that pain stuff. Got a knee that's going out though. At some point, I'll go get that replaced I suppose - I'll pay cash (less than folks who have insurance do) and that'll be that. It is not my fault if folks don't plan ahead for their own shit.

3. I didn't make these other idiots work a shitty job for their entire lives and not save anything up for their own medical care (or worse, make them blow their money on stupid shit like the latest iphone every year or two and a new car every 5.) Who's going to come out of the wood work to pay for my shit? Why /should/ I have to pay for getting my knee replaced or whatever when everyone else shluffs it off on someone else? Why can't I keep /my/ money to pay for shit I want, like $10k computers and a $200k endless pool addition to my house, and $15k to replace the roof... I have things I would rather spend my money on too, but no one fucking pays my shit.

Fuck em, they wanna throw /their/ money in the toilet, I won't stop them, but don't come crying to me about paying for it. Get a better job and pay for it yourself - or go the fuck without because you wanted to buy something else more than you gave a shit about setting money aside for your own medical care needs.

1. No. I make more money when more people get sick. Means more consumables and instruments I sold more money I make. America is not getting healthier but it's getting sicker.
2. Lifetime executives tend to get used to the normal heat/stress to job related problems but it does accumulate.
3. If all Americans think like you -------- Then we do not need any health insurance at all.
3.1 Generally ER will be the primary care. Result hospitals will just close, bankrupt or sick will just die.
3.2 Your knee. What happened then someone just had a heart attack or diagnosed with cancer. Will file bankruptcy, loss savings and house to survive?

1. So you're kind of like a vampire heh Peeps ain't getting sicker, they're going to the doctor for stupid fucking shit like sneezing.
2. Never bothered me nor anyone I know. Maybe folks are just too pussified to handle stress?
3. You're right, we don't need insurance, it's a money scam.
Oh bummer...
Well if hospitals can't run their shit on budget then they should close. I bet you most folks won't get sick and die, they'll learn to fucking use a Kleenex though.
Bummer. Uhm who's going to pay for my heart attack? When my husband hit a moose how come no one offered to pay for it? Sucks if you don't plan ahead for emergencies - perhaps folks should.

HEY maybe we should stop paying the medical bills for all the illegals? 11-21M illegals using our hospitals ER as doctors and we're paying for it. Yay...

1. Is that supposed to be my fault? Am I supposed to give my products for free? Actually I blamed people like you why health care are so high because of uninsured people.
2. Consider yourself lucky but you are not speaking for everyone.
3. Yes we do need insurance to protect us from people like you and the illegals. Hospitals----- You said you are an executive in a business I hope----- So what happened then if most or all of your customers are not or stop paying you from the services you provided? Is your business going to stay open or close?

 

[EverCurious]

1. Uninsured people, or people who fucking don't pay? I'm uninsured, but I pay my damn bills.
2. Waahhhh. Fuck off.
3. I pay my bills kiss off. Illegals shouldn't be using our fucking shit, they should be deported. I'd go under, and I'd sue the clients for not paying, if I got the money out of them okay, if not like all businesses I'd have to fucking suck it up because no one would ever come to my rescue with magic money out of nowhere. Part of the risk of doing business, sometimes you get your clock fucking cleaned - thus why a good deal of the "rich" in this nation go broke. I lost two businesses myself (not bankrupt, one I broke my wrist and couldn't' continue, the second my clients went under so that was that. I lost about $50k, just poof no more oops - no one helped, no one gave a shit cause that's the way it is in business.)

 

[Flopper]

The ACA will not be replaced. The only legislation that will pass the Senate is a budget reconciliation bill because Republicans do not have 60 votes in the Senate. A reconciliation bill can contain only legislation that changes government spending and revenue. Therefore it can not repeal Obamacare nor remove most of regulations on insurance companies and healthcare providers. In the end there will be 2 major healthcare laws, the Affordable Care Act and the American Healthcare law that will likely be the forerunners of the a single payer system.

Unfortunately you are probably 'spot on'. McConnell is a gutless coward who has shown his hand in the past - leading votes to replace the ACA when it never mattered, and folding like a cheap suit when it did. The GOP will never change until Matt Ryan - Boehner's 'Sith Apprentice' - and 'Mitchie-Rich' are driven from the halls of Congress.

The logical path for the Senate is to get something passed before the midterms which would have to be a budget reconciliation bill. They don't need any democrat votes in the Senate to pass it. The problem of course is it's not a repeal and replacement for Obamacare and it's unlikely to seriously decrease the premiums and deductibles for individual policies sold on the exchanges because it only addresses items that effect the budget.

What they should be doing is creating a total replacement for Obamacare which would require democrat support in the Senate. However, getting democrats on board and getting the bill passed in both houses before the midterms would take a miracle.

 

[Flopper]

The ACA is far more than just exchanges. It includes employee sponsored insurance, Medicaid, and to some extent Medicare. This is where 80% of the people get their insurance coverage. Only 14% purchase from the exchanges. Since most of the problems have been with exchanges, people tend to identify the ACA with the exchanges but in fact, they are a fairly small portion of the healthcare marketplace.

And all of the good things you just mentioned could be included in a bill that was not as disastrous as the ACA, which all but destroyed the existing health care system, stripped people of the freedom to completely choose for themselves what they needed / wanted / was best for them, and imposed the government's will on the people by forcing the govt's decision of what minimum coverage should be / include and forcing all Americans to buy a product or be hit with a punitive monetary tax.

Part of the same problem with the ACA will be the same problem with the GOP bill (if they ever pass one) and that is the refusal of the leading dumbasses in both parties refusing to work together on what is best for the American people.

Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, and the about 32 other 'Openly Obstructionist' Party-1st Democrats who want nothing more than Trump to fail should be booted from Congress at the 1st opportunity, ALONG WITH Ryan, McConnell, and the GOP dumbasses who are doing the same thing (refusing to work with the Dems). I don't care what Party they claim to be, if they prove incapable of working together - or just flat-out refuse to - for the good of the country they need to be booted.

Sorry but I can't agree with you.
It may seem to be a great idea to give customers more options. After all who can argue that freedom of choice is not the American way. However, consider the following.

Most of the people living in small rural communities are older Americans who have no interest in a maternity care option or they are covered under Medicaid. This means the insurance pool for maternity care would be just families that are expecting to have children. This was the case in 2008. The result was that in many of these communities the maternity care option was either so expensive no purchased it or the company didn't offer it so women did not have access to affordable prenatal care and maternity care which resulted in complications in pregnancy. Also, the lack coverage for contraceptives increased the number of unintended pregnancies.

In general, creating healthcare plans where customers can pick and choose options is disastrous. No one can predict whether they will need emergency room service, coverage for mental health, or a $500,000 limit on healthcare benefits. In the later 20th century, insurance companies made a ton of money selling what turned out to be useless insurance that were filled with exclusions and options. Insurance companies are really good at this because they know exactly what combination of options and exclusions will maximize premiums while minimizing benefits.

The only really big problem with Obamcare was it placed the total cost of covering prexisting conditions on healthy customers. So people with relatively few healthcare problems paid large premiums with large delectable. This could have been avoided by government picking up those cost. If that had been done, no one would be taking about repealing Obamacare because rates would have been lower with more benefits.

Republicans recognized that funding preexist conditions in the house healthcare bill would control cost. Unfortunately, they decided on high risk pools run by the states which will be a total disaster because the bill provides only 8 billion dollars over 5 years to help the states fund the high risk pools. The actually amount needed is over 200 billion. There are also a number of other problems with high risk pools.

 

[EverCurious]

Actually the downfall of the health care problem is always pharma - long term meds for peoples bad habits, diabetes etc. they are UNFEASIBLE for a "socialist" medical plan to cover, by insurance or by flat pay. They are too damned expensive for so many damn people to be on them. (FYI part of how ACA "paid for itself" was by taxing pharma JS)

 

[Flopper]

Actually the downfall of the health care problem is always pharma - long term meds for peoples bad habits, diabetes etc. they are UNFEASIBLE for a "socialist" medical plan to cover, by insurance or by flat pay. They are too damned expensive for so many damn people to be on them. (FYI part of how ACA "paid for itself" was by taxing pharma JS)

If Obamacare is repealed, the excise tax on drug manufactures disappears. I guess republicans belief drug manufactures should be rewarded for increasing prices 208% in 8 years. The average profit margin of big pharma is 3 times that of average corporation listed in the SP 500.

 

[EverCurious]

n return for those millions spent on promoting Obamacare, big pharma gets the privilege of spending even more money. Lots more money. For starters, the drugmakers must provide higher rebates to Medicaid for prescription drugs. This expanded rebate program will cost the industry around $20 billion over the next 10 years.

Pharmaceutical companies must also pay new excise taxes on branded drugs. Those taxes amounted to $5.3 billion over the past two years. By 2021, the cumulative total for the new taxes will top $30 billion. Since the amount a given company must pay is based on its percentage of total drug sales in the previous year, big pharma will pay the biggest bucks with this tax.

Filling part of the Medicare Part D "doughnut hole" will cost another $30 billion. Pharma companies must discount prices by 50% to senior citizens who reach the level of spending where this coverage gap exists. The grand total price tag for all of these new taxes, fees, and rebates for the industry over the next 10 years comes in at $80 billion. After helping to derail HillaryCare in the 1990s, were the folks at Pfizer, J&J, and other big pharmaceutical companies crazy to jump aboard Obamacare?

- Is Obamacare a Disaster Waiting to Happen for Big Pharma? -- The Motley Fool

Now we all know the pharma isn't paying that bill yea? $80b over 10 yrs, all to be paid by the patients. And it was unfeasible /before/ ACA taxed the bloody fuck out of pharma. It was the ticking time bomb of ACA and we pretty much knew it from the beginning. As the investor says: "My hunch is that big pharma might have gotten a better return on that $150 million spent on promoting Obamacare from another investment -- like maybe developing new and improved drugs."

 

[EvilCat Breath]

There are alternatives if the government doesn't step in and stop the free market from doing what they do best.
Cutting Out Insurance: Monthly Memberships for Health Care

This is concierge medical care. It is very, very expensive. I have friends that use concierge. The doctor will come right to your house. The concierge covers everything, lab fees, tests, hospitalizations. The doctor carries a greatly reduced patient load and charges for it too.

 

[EverCurious]

See also:

Cost to Develop New Pharmaceutical Drug Now Exceeds $2.5B (2014) - A new report published by the Tufts Center for the Study of Drug Development (CSDD) pegs the cost of developing a prescription drug that gains market approval at $2.6 billion, a 145% increase, correcting for inflation, over the estimate the center made in 2003. -- http://csdd.tufts.edu/files/uploads/Tufts_CSDD_briefing_on_RD_cost_study_-_Nov_18,_2014..pdf


Examining high prescription drug spending for people with employer sponsored health insurance (2016) - "Prescription drug spending has grown rapidly in the past couple of years, following years of slow growth. Several studies by the federal government, pharmacy benefit managers, and insurers point to high prices for new “specialty” drugs as driving this recent spike, in addition to price increases for some existing brand name drugs. Prescription drugs are one of the leading contributors to health spending growth, and insurers frequently cite these higher drug costs as a reason for raising premiums." -- "In 2014, 24% of out-of-pocket prescription drug expenses were paid through deductibles, compared to just 4% in 2004. Similarly, 20% of out-of-pocket drug expenses were paid through coinsurance spending in 2014, compared to just 3% in 2004."

THEN we pile on the regulations and chronic underpayment for drugs (do note my post in 489 discussing that pharma was gambling on a big risk based on getting more prescriptions out there to make ACA work) - http://www.amcp.org/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=21859 (2016)
"6
SUMMARY
Medicare Pharmaceutical and Technology Ombudsman
The Act
establishes a “pharmaceutical and technolog
y ombudsman” within CMS to handle
complaints, grievances, and other requests from pharmaceutical and medical device
manufacturers seeking Medicare coverage for their products. The ombudsman would specifically
be charged with addressing coverage, coding and
payment, providing manufacturers with a
potential new avenue to work with the agency to resolve access barriers arising from these
issues.
The new ombudsman must be in place no later than 12 months after the date of enactment
of the Act.
AMCP will careful
ly monitor regulatory activity in this area, particularly issues
related to the responsibilities of this position.
Reducing Overpayments of Infusion Drugs
Section 5004 addresses findings from an HHS Office of Inspector General (
OIG) report
that
determined Medicare has overpaid for certain drugs and underpaid for others by applying a new
pricing methodology to better reflect actual transaction prices. The payment am
ount for Part B
infusion drugs furnished through durable medical equipment will be set to Average Sales Price
(ASP) plus 6% beginning on January 1, 2017. These drugs were previously paid based on 95%
of the Average Wholesale Price (AWP) that took effect on
October 1, 2003. The OIG concluded
that
applying the ASP+6 percent methodology to infused drugs would result in payment amounts
that reflect actual transaction prices.



AND NOW for the final nail in the coffin of the pharma companies that were so nice to take such a risk on behalf of the fucking greedy selfish fucking Americans

Now both Trump and Clinton intend to import generic's to lower the cost to the people - meanwhile cutting the head off pharma - and truthfully the world, because the US is what drives a lot of the new medications research and development. Nice payback folks - not that anyone cares, because fucking pharma raised the prices 208% - no excuses for the massive increases in the cost of researching and developing them, no excuse for the fucking 50% discounts our government /forces/ them to give anyone over 65, no excuses for our government underpaying them by as much as 6% for over a decade, nooo never mind /all/ of that, it's just greedy pharma...

Fucking socialist dogs.