Minimum Wage Increase: They Never Talks About the SALES

[bripat9643]

That minimum wage needs to be raised. $11 per hour is too low. The middle class can do better.

It's adjusted regularly. Don't forget that in Canada, we have single payer healthcare- no co-pays, unemployment insurance and overall a much better social safety net than Americans.

That must be why the hospitals here in Florida are packed with Canadians.

 

[JoeMoma]

That minimum wage needs to be raised. $11 per hour is too low. The middle class can do better.

It's adjusted regularly. Don't forget that in Canada, we have single payer healthcare- no co-pays, unemployment insurance and overall a much better social safety net than Americans.

Well, it needs to be adjusted more often with steeper increases. Put an end to poverty altogether.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If a Macdonald's has, say, 6 people on a shift, they need 6 people on a shift. THEY figured that out. If they claim that a raise in the minimum wage will force them to go to 5 people on a shift,

well, why aren't they at 5 people now? Why are they carrying the 6th employee that supposedly they can do without?

HA HA. I've been asking that question for 50 years. I haven't gotten a good answer yet. I've also been asking this question>> If they could raise their price now, to bring in more income, why are they still at their current price now ? Didn't they want more income last month too ? Or the month before that ?

It's the core flaw in their argument.

 

[protectionist]

Republicans think "Supply and demand" is some ridiculous liberal policy that has no chance of ever working. They think it's the "job creators" who run the economy. You only need to make sure the "job creators" have enough money and they will create jobs.

Republicans simply don't understand that when people have money and spend it, that drives the economy. You can try to explain it to them, but like science, they not only don't get it, they won't get it.

The only thing I would disagree with you on, is that only SOME Republicans think as you described. Recent Gallup polls shows clear majorities of both Republicans and Conservatives supporting minimum wage raises. Conservative opposition to MW increase is a thing of the past.

Yes...they have been brow beaten into allowing jobs to be lost, businesses to close....and the funny thing...these republicans will get blamed when all of that happens....and then the democrats will say the minimum wage needs to be raised to help all those people now out of work...and working reduced hours.....

You are programmed to believe that minimum wage raises = unemployment. This is a ludicrous myth. And if/whenever Republicans believe it (which a minority of them still do), and this transfers into the voting booth, this will greatly help Democrats who overwhelmingly don't fall for the myth, since raising the MW is a highly popular issue, and thise opposed to it are making themselves unpopular. Great way toi cause yourself to lose an election.

So now allow me to attempt to DEPROGRAM YOU.

Employers function with a number of employees that bring them the most income/profit. They CANNOT reduce staff. Any more or less employees results in SALES and income reduction. Layoffs result in losses, not gains.

So let's go back to the case of my ex-wife, and the boutique she used to own in a mall in California, back in the 80s. On July 1, 1988, the California minimum wage went up from $3.35/hour to $4.25. You think this hindered my wife's business ? It was never better than after that MW raise. More DISPOSABLE INCOME. More customers. More sales$$$.No need to do anything except listen to the sweet sound of the cash register ringing, much more often.
As for the idea of laying people off, my wife had 10 employees in her little store. Why does anyone here think she had 10 ? You posters think 10 was her lucky number ? You think maybe that was her birthday ? So why 10 rather than 9 ? You think she was a philanthropist, and just wanted to gave another person a job ?

It was because she MADE MORE MONEY WITH 10, than any other number, that's why. And it's the only reason why. So if she cut even one person, she'd LOSE money from reduced sales. That's why she had 10 in the first place. It was the number that maximized her sales. That's all there is to it.

 

[protectionist]

In every location and instance where the minimum wage has be raised, unemployment has gone DOWN. By a lot. The whole notion that jobs are lost by increasing wages is a fallacy. The increased cash in workers' pockets raises their spending, and thus increases demand and hence jobs.
The biggest obstacle right now to growing the US economy is that workers have no disposable income. Their credit is maxxed out and they can't spend. Demand drives the economy and there is a lot of pent up demand, but no money to buy. Increasing wages will release that pent up demand and fuel a strong boom.
Once demand is released, businesses can start to expand. Read the studies and reports on raising minimum wages.

GOOD POST! The people who are arguing against raising the MW are a dwindling minority (even among Conservatives), who are so programmed into their way of thinking, that deprogramming them from it is very difficult. In time they may get it.

 

[protectionist]

Being popular doesn't make it smart. If it did, then Obama voters would be smart.

What makes it smart is simple logic.

 

[protectionist]

The politics is very interesting, I'm still waiting for you to prove your economics claim.
8 pages and you're still avoiding the main issue.
I'm shocked.

I'm waiting for YOU to present YOUR side. You have nothing but conjecture. You haven't said a thing about INCREASED SALES. All you do is yak about wages.

I'm waiting for YOU to present YOUR side.

Here's my side. A business that has $500,000 in increased payroll expenses, even if it recaptures that entire cost in increased sales, will still be less profitable than before.

Why would it be less profitable if it recaptured the entire cost in increased sales ?
(note: generally businesses recapture much more than their increased labor costs - this is why I badgered my legislators to raise the California minimum wage, which they finally did in 1988, raising my profits substantially)

 

[protectionist]

I've learned a lot from the op, but not being that good of a student I'm a little confused. If I understand the op correctly, when the minimum wage goes up, sales increase because the customer base has more disposable income to use for buying and this results in increased profits for the businesses. Here's where I'm confused and perhaps a few questions can be answered to clear up my confusion. If a higher minimum wage results in higher profits, then wouldn't a higher minimum wage always be better than a lower minimum wage? So how fast can the minimum wage be raised, and how high can it go and still achieve these results? If $15 per hour is good, then why not $20 or $25? Let's make those profits shoot through the roof. Also, how fast can the minimum wage be raised? Economic prosperity is out there for all! What are we waiting for?

I don't know how high a MW can be raised, but I know that when I owned my business in the 1980's, I paid my workers commissions that equaled $150/hour (that is $350/hour in 2015 dollars) And I actually still felt they were a bit underpaid (they got only 15% of each sale)

 

[Interpol]

Raising the minimum wage is not "socialism", despite what some morons on here say.

In fact, if the minimum wage got an automatic yearly bump upwards, more low income people would require less taxpayer subsidies in the form of welfare, food stamps, etc.

What we know now is that many people on food stamps work, but their wages are too low. It makes no sense that any of us should be subsidizing Walmart or McDonalds employees.

Create a meaningful living wage and it's a win-win for everybody. Taxpayers could save most of the $75 billion they dole out for food stamps; low income earners would have more money to spend in the free market, resulting in businesses doing well.

What's hilarious is the argument by free marketeers these days that says businesses would have massive layoffs if they had to raise the minimum wage, which shows they understand exactly nothing about the free market. Businesses hire and fire based on how well they're selling what they're selling. It has never had anything to do with their low-wage staff.

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

(note: generally businesses recapture much more than their increased labor costs )

totally stupid and liberal!!! if generally true would we not have 10,000 bankruptcies a month!! Republican capitalism is competitive!!

 

[boedicca]

Just now, I saw another report about the topic of minimum wage increase. This one was on CNN, hosted by Julie Banderas. She was talking to Scott Gamm, of HelpSaveMyDollars.com, a financial website focused on helping consumers save and learn about money. They were talking about the recent 14-1 vote by the city of Los Angeles to raise the minimum wage to $15 by 2020.

Scott might be well versed on various aspects pertaining to consumer finances but, on the minimum wage raise, he is waaay off the mark. He said three things about the minimum wage raise topic. And he was WRONG on all three. Gamm merely recited the 3 most commonly heard (and programmed) descriptions about minimum wage raises.

1. He said it would cause jobs to be lost. FALSE! Employers function with a number of employees that bring them the most income/profit. They CANNOT reduce staff. Any more or less employees results in SALES and income reduction. Layoffs result in losses, not gains.

2. He (and Banderas too) said prices would be raised (or fees created) to compensate for the wage losses, and these losses would just be "passed on" to the customers. More FALSE! scare talk. Businesses CANNOT raise prices because they are already fixed at a market price, related to maximization of sales/income. Any change in price (up or down) results in reduction of SALES and income.

3. He said businesses will move away from LA. FALSE! (in most cases). Does Gamm think that closing down a business and moving to another location can be done scott (no pun intended) free ? Depending on the business, moving costs can vary from just barely economical, to completely UNeconomical, and the latter is much more often the case. Imagine a machine shop with over 100 large production machines, having to pack then all up and move miles away. Some businesses could do it. Not many.

So here's the real crux of all this. As in 1000 other media reports I've seen on minimum wage increases, the most important aspect of this is NEVER MENTIONED. Not a word. That is the increase in DISPOSABLE INCOME resulting in INCREASES SALES$$$. All businesses get this, and generally it far outweighs labor increases, since the number of wage raised consumers (not just those at the minimum wage) by far outnumbers any one employer's workers who are getting wage increases.

Then there's also the fact that many business, while receiving this big SALES boost, do NOT have any wage loss at all. These are businesses who are mom & pop and have no employees, those whose workers are all working just on sales commission (car lots, furniture, real estate, insurance, etc), and third, those with skilled workers (ex. machine shops) whose workers all already get well over $15 hour, or whatever the MW would be raised to.

I think back to when I owned a business. I paid my commission salespeople $350/hour (in 2015 dollars), and they still were only receiving 15% of the sale. In all, I made fine profits and expanded the business. Biggest downer ? All the people who called in and said > "Sorry. I can't afford it." Of course they can't. Not one somebody out there is paying them a low minimum wage. To be successful in business, you have a lot fo things to do. But you can't do anything, if the public around you doesn't have money in their pockets to buy what you're trying to sell.

This is why Conservatives who support raising the MW nationwide, outnumber Conservatives who don't, 54% to 44%.

^^^ Flunked Economics 1A ^^^

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

Create a meaningful living wage and it's a win-win for everybody..

of course that's very stupid and liberal. The Chinese have 25% of our income but save 4 times as much so our minimum wages make us rich or meaningful!!!.

Also how stuipid and liberal is it to raise wages when we have already lost 30 million jobs to low wage countries??

and don't forget the liberal is a communist so minimum wage is just one of a 1000 interventions in the Republican capitalist economy that he wants.

 

[protectionist]

The author of the OP doesn't know jack squat about economics. Sales at the firm where the wages are raised do not go up. They go down. Higher wages means they have to charge higher prices for their products. Every first year economics student learns that sales volume is determined by the laws of supply and demand. The higher the price, the lower the volume of sales.

People who spout the kind of logic in the OP are nitwits who don't kusw the first thing about economics. They are ignorant and therefore susceptible to leftwing propaganda.

You have a lot of energy, but zero economic knowledge. You even just contradicted yourself. First you said >> "Higher wages means they have to charge higher prices for their products" Then you turned right around and said >> "The higher the price, the lower the volume of sales." HA HA HA. Well, look at that. I don't even have to refute you. You just refuted yourself.

If the firm charges higher prices, as you advised, then they will suffer a lower volume of sales, as you just said, So is that why they would charge those higher prices ? So they can then get a lower volume of sales ? The reduction in sales is exactly WHY they CANNOT raises prices. You're making this too easy for me.

 

[protectionist]

You're the one who is ignorant.

Idiots argued relentlessly during the Clinton administration that raising the MW would kills jobs using the same tired arguments you make. When Clinton raised the MW, spending increased, unemployment went down and the opposite of what you and other short sighted conservatives said would happen.
Conservatives are the people who consistently wreck the economy. Why do you listen to anything they say.
Look at job creation and income under Republicans post Eisenhower. And then look at it under Democrats.
Look at the FACTS, not what Republicans dream things will be like.
Canada had the fastest growing middle class in the world right now. Our MW is just under $11 per hour.

You are correct, except for one thing. In the US,Conservatives no longer oppose raising the Minimum Wage. Latest Gallup Poll shows Conservatives support it (55% to 45%).

 

[protectionist]

But Protectionist ran a business and paid his commissioned sales people $350/hour (in 2015 dollars). He's got to know what he is talking about!

You got that right!

 

[EdwardBaiamonte]

You're the one who is ignorant.

Idiots argued relentlessly during the Clinton administration that raising the MW would kills jobs using the same tired arguments you make. When Clinton raised the MW, spending increased, unemployment went down and the opposite of what you and other short sighted conservatives said would happen.
Conservatives are the people who consistently wreck the economy. Why do you listen to anything they say.
Look at job creation and income under Republicans post Eisenhower. And then look at it under Democrats.
Look at the FACTS, not what Republicans dream things will be like.
Canada had the fastest growing middle class in the world right now. Our MW is just under $11 per hour.

You are correct, except for one thing. In the US,Conservatives no longer oppose raising the Minimum Wage. Latest Gallup Poll shows Conservatives support it (55% to 45%).

Minimum wage makes good sense if we want to drive another 30 million jobs to low wage countries!!

Liberal argue that rising wages are not a problem only because liberalism is based in ignorance. What other concluson is possible?

 

[protectionist]

You have no real life business experience, and your so-called ideas are all conservative talking points. Get back to me after you've run a successful business paying shit wages.

He could run a successful business paying those shit wages, if other businesses around him also paid those bad wages (preventing workers from leaving). But he would be screwing up the sales/incomes of all the other businesses around him, (and his own). This is what the title of this thread means about >>
Minimum Wage Increase: They Never Talks About the SALES

 

[protectionist]

That minimum wage needs to be raised. $11 per hour is too low. The middle class can do better.

It's adjusted regularly. Don't forget that in Canada, we have single payer healthcare- no co-pays, unemployment insurance and overall a much better social safety net than Americans.

That must be why the hospitals here in Florida are packed with Canadians.

I live in Florida. The whole state is packed with Canadians during the winter, Not because of hospitals. It's because they want to escape the cold, Canadian winters.

 

[2aguy]

When what we tell you happens...please don't blame us...for once...blame yourselves.....

 

[protectionist]

It's the core flaw in their argument.

They don't have ANY argument, period.