Hutch Starskey
Diamond Member
- Mar 24, 2015
- 35,391
- 9,170
I think you're defending the commemoration of self avowed white supremacists. Why would you do such a thing?Great. So we should commemorate rebels and outlaws with memorials and statues?By defintion, the confederacy was not American.The left removes another statue of an American war hero, and they wonder why people don't like them.
So, you support the secession?Not in any way.So, you support the secession?
The confederate states believed they were no longer Americans. Their articles of seccession explained why. They claimed their white supremacy gave them the natural right to subjugate blacks and that their economic survival depended on the continued and future expansion of that subjugation.
Straight up racist and deplorable.
But the American view is that the secession was not legal, and thus did not actually happen, and thus the Confederacy was NOT an independent nation and thus the Southerns were not citizens of a foreign power fighting to defend their nation, but rebels and outlaws.
If you agree that their actions were legal and binding, then the Civil War, really was the War of Northern Aggression as defined by the Lost Causers.
Your position is siding with the slavery and against Lincoln and the Union in this historical context.
A distinction without a difference.
A big difference. THey thought their actions were legal and justified.
You seem to believe their actions were legal also, with your claim that they were not Americans.
If they were, as you seem to believe, citizens of a sovereign nation, the Confederacy, fighting to defend that nation from invasion, is a pretty normal reason for people to be, " commemorated ... with memorials and statues".
And the only question then is, what kind of people would come along 5 generations later, and want to tear down those statues.The type of people who have a moral objection to commemorating self avowed white supremacists.And the only question then is, what kind of people would come along 5 generations later, and want to tear down those statues.
Why in the fuck would you support doing so?
Dude. I'm not the one arguing that the secession was legal, that is you making that claim.
Do you think Lincoln's stated rational, ie "the more perfect union" was a sincere but mistaken belief, or do you think he "lied us into a war"?
Do you sympathize with their thinking?
No doubt you do.
i'm defending the right of Southerns to celebrate men that fought to defend their homeland from foreign invasion.
Which is the way that they, and you see it. As you have stated.
Not sure why you can't address what I actually say, and instead have to make up shit.
Wait. I do know this. It is because you know that you are in the wrong, but you are too much of an asshole to admit it.I've made up nothing. You're unwillingness to accept my premise is your issue. Not mine.Not sure why you can't address what I actually say, and instead have to make up shit.
You haven't addressed what I've posted either. I understand why.
The confederates were self avowed white supremacists. There really is nothing left to say after acknowledging that. There is no reason you can cite that nullifies that fact.
You either support the commemoration of self avowed white supremacists or you don't.
Again...
Why do you?
Do you sympathize with their thinking?
Your attempt to make this a black and white issue, no pun intended, is denied.
THe statues celebrate the military service of men defending their homelands from foreign invasion.
I sympathize with the desire of their descendants to celebrate and remember the service of their ancestors, who fought hard and lost badly.
That is my position. It would be one thing if you disagreed with me, and then explained why.
Instead, you have to lie about my position, because you know you can't defend your position and you are too much of an asshole to admit it.THe statues celebrate the military service of men defending their homelands from foreign invasion
LOL...
You'd like it to be that simple but of course it's not. The confederates were self avowed white supremacists. Your efforts to reframe them as something else in no way changes that fact.
Why would you even try?
Beause you sympathize with their lost cause?
They told you in their own words exactly what their thoughts and beliefs were in their articles of seccession. Don't take my word for it. Take theirs.
It is not MY attempt to "reframe it" but the people that put up the statues that choose to focus on the self defense aspect of that War rather than the more questionable cause(s) of the war.
Indeed for over 5 generations, it has been the AMERICAN way of dealing with this past conflict, to focus and celebrate the military service and valor of both sides veterans while glossing over the more questionable aspects of it.
Like the way you agreed with the Confederates on the legal question of the Secession. That was a just glossed over when I was a kid. and for generations before.
I never really questioned Lincoln's justifications. But your point is valid. His claims were very weak ass shit.
Please shove your race baiting, up your ass, you piece of shit.I'm not "race baiting" at all, dope.shove your race baiting, up your ass, you piece of shit
I'm stating facts. Facts that you seemed to have never learned or cared about. You favor instead the narratives put in place by later supremacists to soften the public face of their cause.
I ask you again, sir.
How can you support the commemoration of self avowed white supremacists?
You seem to defend their cause with passion. Do you sympathize with their cause?
Your assigning motives to long dead people, and to me, is not stating facts but stating some self serving opinions of yours.
I support the commemoration of people, who fought to protect their homelands from foreign invasion.
My passion is for America. Dividing US up by region and race, and inflaming old wounds and division.
I've explained that several times. Yet you keep asking the question as though you have not heard the answer several times.
Are you stupid, or just pretending to be stupid to justify being a race baiting asshole?I'm assigning nothing. I'm stating fact. The confederates were self avowed white supremacists. That has always been the case.Your assigning motives to long dead people, and to me, is not stating facts but stating some self serving opinions of yours.
Like I said at least twice already. Don't take my word for it. Take theirs.
Guess what? Most of those fighting for the North believed blacks were inferior to whites as well.
They thought Chinamen, Indians, Indians, and the Irish were as well.
And hell, The Chinese thought we were all barbarians (and many still do) through their whole Middle Kingdom concept.
He knows that. He just doesn't care. Because he is full of shit.
Not one thing I have stated is incorrect.He knows that. He just doesn't care. Because he is full of shit