Modern Conservatism, Modern liberalism

[REVxERIK]

Okay so we had a reading lesson in poli sci today and here are some things i learned, but kinda already knew about the left and right.

Modern Liberals support high government involvement in industry and businesses, but little to none in social issues

Modern conservatives support little to no government involvement in industry and business, but high government involvement in social issues.

Socialism
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

In definition, modern liberals are socialists. haha.

 

[REVxERIK]

i'd love some input

 

[midcan5]

"Liberals demand that the social order should in principle be capable of explaining itself at the tribunal of each person's understanding." Jeremy Waldron

I sure hope this is a beginning class as that is a bit simplistic and actually wrong.

Ideology in a Nutshell:

Conservatism in a Nutshell

A man is lost in the woods and it starts snowing, off in the distance he sees a cabin. Slowly he makes his way only to find a locked gate, he rings the bell and a voice asks what he wants. He tells the voice his plight and is told by the voice that there is a church down the road and that they will pray for him.

Libertarianism in a Nutshell

The snow continues and growing more tired and cold, the man sees another cabin, struggling he barely makes it, he knocks and finally opens the door to warm himself. There is a full kettle of hot soup, he helps himself. Soon out of a back room comes a man, he scolds the man and tells him to leave as this is private property. The man stumbles out the door.

Liberalism in a Nutshell

Nearly exhausted the man sees a third cabin. Slowly he makes his way, opens the door and warms himself. There is soup in a kettle and he helps himself. From a back room a woman enters, she sits down next to him and they talk. He sleeps the night on the floor and the next morning goes on his way.

(with apologies to Jeremy Waldron)




Read Rawls, Waldron, Dworkin, Berlin, or Bernard Williams.

=======================================


"In his book Political Liberalism, John Rawls offers a general description of a liberal political outlook. He intends the description to cover views ranging from the classical liberalism of Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman, arguably in the tradition of Locke and Adam Smith, to the more egalitarian liberalism of his own Theory of Justice. Rawls writes, "the content of a liberal political conception of justice is given by three main features:

1. a specification of basic rights, liberties and opportunities (of a kind familiar from constitutional democratic regimes);

2. an assignment of special priority to those rights, liberties and opportunities, especially with respect of claims of the general good and perfectionist values; and

3. measures assuring to all citizens adequate all-purpose means to make effective use of their liberties and opportunities.

These [three] elements can be understood in different ways, so that there are many variant liberalisms."

Boston Review — Always at the After Party

 

[REVxERIK]

"Liberals demand that the social order should in principle be capable of explaining itself at the tribunal of each person's understanding." Jeremy Waldron

I sure hope this is a beginning class as that is a bit simplistic and actually wrong.

Ideology in a Nutshell:

Conservatism in a Nutshell

A man is lost in the woods and it starts snowing, off in the distance he sees a cabin. Slowly he makes his way only to find a locked gate, he rings the bell and a voice asks what he wants. He tells the voice his plight and is told by the voice that there is a church down the road and that they will pray for him.

Libertarianism in a Nutshell

The snow continues and growing more tired and cold, the man sees another cabin, struggling he barely makes it, he knocks and finally opens the door to warm himself. There is a full kettle of hot soup, he helps himself. Soon out of a back room comes a man, he scolds the man and tells him to leave as this is private property. The man stumbles out the door.

Liberalism in a Nutshell

Nearly exhausted the man sees a third cabin. Slowly he makes his way, opens the door and warms himself. There is soup in a kettle and he helps himself. From a back room a woman enters, she sits down next to him and they talk. He sleeps the night on the floor and the next morning goes on his way.

(with apologies to Jeremy Waldron)




Read Rawls, Waldron, Dworkin, Berlin, or Bernard Williams.

=======================================


"In his book Political Liberalism, John Rawls offers a general description of a liberal political outlook. He intends the description to cover views ranging from the classical liberalism of Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman, arguably in the tradition of Locke and Adam Smith, to the more egalitarian liberalism of his own Theory of Justice. Rawls writes, "the content of a liberal political conception of justice is given by three main features:

1. a specification of basic rights, liberties and opportunities (of a kind familiar from constitutional democratic regimes);

2. an assignment of special priority to those rights, liberties and opportunities, especially with respect of claims of the general good and perfectionist values; and

3. measures assuring to all citizens adequate all-purpose means to make effective use of their liberties and opportunities.

These [three] elements can be understood in different ways, so that there are many variant liberalisms."

Boston Review — Always at the After Party

it is a beggining class, and that was in the book which cost me a ton of money, so i'm gonna go with it on this one.

 

[REVxERIK]

"Liberals demand that the social order should in principle be capable of explaining itself at the tribunal of each person's understanding." Jeremy Waldron

I sure hope this is a beginning class as that is a bit simplistic and actually wrong.

Ideology in a Nutshell:

Conservatism in a Nutshell

A man is lost in the woods and it starts snowing, off in the distance he sees a cabin. Slowly he makes his way only to find a locked gate, he rings the bell and a voice asks what he wants. He tells the voice his plight and is told by the voice that there is a church down the road and that they will pray for him.

Libertarianism in a Nutshell

The snow continues and growing more tired and cold, the man sees another cabin, struggling he barely makes it, he knocks and finally opens the door to warm himself. There is a full kettle of hot soup, he helps himself. Soon out of a back room comes a man, he scolds the man and tells him to leave as this is private property. The man stumbles out the door.

Liberalism in a Nutshell

Nearly exhausted the man sees a third cabin. Slowly he makes his way, opens the door and warms himself. There is soup in a kettle and he helps himself. From a back room a woman enters, she sits down next to him and they talk. He sleeps the night on the floor and the next morning goes on his way.

(with apologies to Jeremy Waldron)




Read Rawls, Waldron, Dworkin, Berlin, or Bernard Williams.

=======================================


"In his book Political Liberalism, John Rawls offers a general description of a liberal political outlook. He intends the description to cover views ranging from the classical liberalism of Friedrich Hayek and Milton Friedman, arguably in the tradition of Locke and Adam Smith, to the more egalitarian liberalism of his own Theory of Justice. Rawls writes, "the content of a liberal political conception of justice is given by three main features:

1. a specification of basic rights, liberties and opportunities (of a kind familiar from constitutional democratic regimes);

2. an assignment of special priority to those rights, liberties and opportunities, especially with respect of claims of the general good and perfectionist values; and

3. measures assuring to all citizens adequate all-purpose means to make effective use of their liberties and opportunities.

These [three] elements can be understood in different ways, so that there are many variant liberalisms."

Boston Review — Always at the After Party

you're describing classic liberalism. when clearly i said modern liberalism

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

I think modern liberals would better be described as pro Welfare State and pro Capitialism. They support the capitalist system with some governmental regulation and they believe that citizens are entitled to recieve certain benefits from the state (healthcare, social safety net programs, welfare, social security, and other benefits). Also, the Republican party has pretty much abopted many of the policies of the welfare state as a permanent fixture. I wouldnt say that modern liberals are socialist.

 

[REVxERIK]

I think modern liberals would better be described as pro Welfare State and pro Capitialism. They support the capitalist system with some governmental regulation and they believe that citizens are entitled to recieve certain benefits from the state (healthcare, social safety net programs, welfare, social security, and other benefits). Also, the Republican party has pretty much abopted many of the policies of the welfare state as a permanent fixture. I wouldnt say that modern liberals are socialist.

as i say, by definition.

 

[KittenKoder]

Modern liberalism is nothing like the definition of the word. Originally liberals were not about big government (a common philosophy with the original conservatives) however these days both political alignments have changed, thus spawning the terms neolib and neocon. When I first learned about politics I was a liberal, wanted equality for all by the law and loved protesting and still love freedom of speech, however I do not agree with the government taking control of anything.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

I think modern liberals would better be described as pro Welfare State and pro Capitialism. They support the capitalist system with some governmental regulation and they believe that citizens are entitled to recieve certain benefits from the state (healthcare, social safety net programs, welfare, social security, and other benefits). Also, the Republican party has pretty much abopted many of the policies of the welfare state as a permanent fixture. I wouldnt say that modern liberals are socialist.

as i say, by definition.

I have yet to see a Democrat campaign on nationalizing all private businesses.

 

[REVxERIK]

Modern liberalism is nothing like the definition of the word. Originally liberals were not about big government (a common philosophy with the original conservatives) however these days both political alignments have changed, thus spawning the terms neolib and neocon. When I first learned about politics I was a liberal, wanted equality for all by the law and loved protesting and still love freedom of speech, however I do not agree with the government taking control of anything.

thank you for reiterating everything already outlined.

 

[REVxERIK]

I think modern liberals would better be described as pro Welfare State and pro Capitialism. They support the capitalist system with some governmental regulation and they believe that citizens are entitled to recieve certain benefits from the state (healthcare, social safety net programs, welfare, social security, and other benefits). Also, the Republican party has pretty much abopted many of the policies of the welfare state as a permanent fixture. I wouldnt say that modern liberals are socialist.

as i say, by definition.

I have yet to see a Democrat campaign on nationalizing all private businesses.

democrats and modern liberals are not necessarily the same thing

 

[KittenKoder]

Modern liberalism is nothing like the definition of the word. Originally liberals were not about big government (a common philosophy with the original conservatives) however these days both political alignments have changed, thus spawning the terms neolib and neocon. When I first learned about politics I was a liberal, wanted equality for all by the law and loved protesting and still love freedom of speech, however I do not agree with the government taking control of anything.

thank you for reiterating everything already outlined.

Sorry we are in sync with this. I can't offer more to someone I agree with on a subject.

 

[REVxERIK]

Modern liberalism is nothing like the definition of the word. Originally liberals were not about big government (a common philosophy with the original conservatives) however these days both political alignments have changed, thus spawning the terms neolib and neocon. When I first learned about politics I was a liberal, wanted equality for all by the law and loved protesting and still love freedom of speech, however I do not agree with the government taking control of anything.

thank you for reiterating everything already outlined.

Sorry we are in sync with this. I can't offer more to someone I agree with on a subject.

no iwas actually sincerely thanking you, i don't have the influence of people that listen that someone else might, seeing as the first couple responses missed the mark so terribly

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

as i say, by definition.

I have yet to see a Democrat campaign on nationalizing all private businesses.

democrats and modern liberals are not necessarily the same thing

Okay, fair enough. I made a generalization about a sect of society that consititutes the largest amount of modern liberals in the American sense.

What group of people in the United States wishes for the government to nationalize all private businesses and prevent you from owning the means of production and distribution. But naturally there are certain industries with barriers to entry (such as high cost). Does this group of people live on the fringe of society. If"modern liberalism" is socialism, is "modern liberalism" a fringe ideology in the United States?

 

[LibocalypseNow]

Today's "Liberals" have become Socialists and today's "Conservatives" have become Liberals or NeoCons. There really aren't too many true Liberals and true Conservatives left in this country. For example,I don't know of any true Liberals who would kneel to lick a National Socialist's boots like most current Democrats do with Hugo Chavez. The man is currently in the process of shutting down all opposition Media in Venezuela. No true Liberal could ever support such brutal suppression of Free Speech. So today's Democrats are not Liberals but are instead now Socialists. Another example would be how most Republicans fully supported George Bush's numerous foreign interventions and insane spending back when they had power. No true Conservative would support all these aggressive foreign interventions and massive debt spending. So most of today's Republicans are not Conservatives but are instead now Liberals or Neocons. Unfortunately i don't see much difference between the Socialists and Neocons at this point. At the end of the day they both fully support aggressive Globalism. So i can't support either one. Both parties are currently being redefined and i'm pretty sure more & more people do not like these new definitions. Time for a Third Party? You bet!

 

[Si modo]

Okay so we had a reading lesson in poli sci today and here are some things i learned, but kinda already knew about the left and right.

Modern Liberals support high government involvement in industry and businesses, but little to none in social issues

Modern conservatives support little to no government involvement in industry and business, but high government involvement in social issues.

Socialism
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

In definition, modern liberals are socialists. haha.

And I prefer low government involvement in industry and low government involvement in social issues. There are a lot like me, too - political conservatives and social liberals. Goldwater, a Republican was one as well.

I think your lesson was rather close minded.

 

[REVxERIK]

Okay so we had a reading lesson in poli sci today and here are some things i learned, but kinda already knew about the left and right.

Modern Liberals support high government involvement in industry and businesses, but little to none in social issues

Modern conservatives support little to no government involvement in industry and business, but high government involvement in social issues.

Socialism
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

In definition, modern liberals are socialists. haha.

And I prefer low government involvement in industry and low government involvement in social issues. There are a lot like me, too - political conservatives and social liberals. Goldwater, a Republican was one as well.

I think your lesson was rather close minded.

congatulations, you're a libertarian.


not really. all i was sharing were two things from the lesson, there were other things too.

 

[Nosmo King]

Okay so we had a reading lesson in poli sci today and here are some things i learned, but kinda already knew about the left and right.

Modern Liberals support high government involvement in industry and businesses, but little to none in social issues
Modern conservatives support little to no government involvement in industry and business, but high government involvement in social issues.

Socialism
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.

In definition, modern liberals are socialists. haha.

Little to none in social issues. This should tell you something. It should tell you about which ideology supports true individual freedoms. A Liberal would generally support gay marriage. Why? Because it really does not effect the heterosexual marriage one bit. Yet Conservatives will rail against it. Why? Because Conservatives really abhor any social change. Like Civil rights, women's rights, gay rights, and worker's rights.

Conservatives will always champion business over workers. Why? Because they equate "freedom" with profit. They see 'freedom' as the freedom to exploit, under pay, reduce workplace safety regulations and environmental regulations. See 'freedom'='money' in campaign finance regulations. Conservatives see cash=freedom.

 

[Bill O'Olberman]

And I prefer low government involvement in industry and low government involvement in social issues. There are a lot like me, too - political conservatives and social liberals. Goldwater, a Republican was one as well.

I think your lesson was rather close minded.

Yeah. Liberal and Conservative are very broad terms that encompass many different ideologies. With conservatives you have neocons, the religious right, cultural conservative, classical liberal type conservative, etc.

 

[REVxERIK]

And I prefer low government involvement in industry and low government involvement in social issues. There are a lot like me, too - political conservatives and social liberals. Goldwater, a Republican was one as well.

I think your lesson was rather close minded.

Yeah. Liberal and Conservative are very broad terms that encompass many different ideologies. With conservatives you have neocons, the religious right, cultural conservative, classical liberal type conservative, etc.

which is why i picked two particular types from liberal, and conservative. MODERN