More "freedom" going on - doesnt rate a mention

[2aguy]

Nothing supports your positions on the 2nd Amendment....not truth, facts or reality........the Supreme Court has ruled against you, and 41 years of research shows you are wrong.....

the fact....the fact....that as more Americans have purchased and now have permits to carry guns...and our gun crime rates have gone down, show you don't know what you are talking about...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

htt

Pew is a reputable source however - it isn't really supporting what you are claiming.

For example while homicides went down...suicides went up: Gun homicides steady after decline in ’90s; suicide rate edges up

It also noted this:

The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.​

But more important - it draws no definitive causal conclusion between increased gun ownership and lower crime rates. Crime rates are affected by a complex array of factors but the gun lobby wants you to think the only factor is the increase or decrease in gun ownership. Pew notes here in this part of the report, that there are numerous factors at play.

What is Behind the Crime Decline?

Researchers continue to debate the key factors behind changing crime rates, which is part of a larger discussion about the predictors of crime.3 There is consensus that demographics played some role: The outsized post-World War II baby boom, which produced a large number of people in the high-crime ages of 15 to 20 in the 1960s and 1970s, helped drive crime up in those years.

A review by the National Academy of Sciences of factors driving recent crime trends (Blumstein and Rosenfeld, 2008) cited a decline in rates in the early 1980s as the young boomers got older, then a flare-up by mid-decade in conjunction with a rising street market for crack cocaine, especially in big cities. It noted recruitment of a younger cohort of drug seller with greater willingness to use guns. By the early 1990s, crack markets withered in part because of lessened demand, and the vibrant national economy made it easier for even low-skilled young people to find jobs rather than get involved in crime.

At the same time, a rising number of people ages 30 and older were incarcerated, due in part to stricter laws, which helped restrain violence among this age group. It is less clear, researchers say, that innovative policing strategies and police crackdowns on use of guns by younger adults played a significant role in reducing crime.

Some researchers have proposed additional explanations as to why crime levels plunged so suddenly, including increased access to abortion and lessened exposure to lead. According to one hypothesis, legalization of abortion after the 1973 Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision resulted in fewer unwanted births, and unwanted children have an increased risk of growing up to become criminals. Another theory links reduced crime to 1970s-era reductions in lead in gasoline; children’s exposure to lead causes brain damage that could be associated with violent behavior. The National Academy of Sciences review said it was unlikely that either played a major role, but researchers continue to explore both factors.

The plateau in national violent crime rates has raised interest in the topic of how local differences might influence crime levels and trends. Crime reductions took place across the country in the 1990s, but since 2000, patterns have varied more by metropolitan area or city.4

One focus of interest is that gun ownership varies widely by region and locality. The National Academy of Sciences review of possible influences on crime trends said there is good evidence of a link between firearm ownership and firearm homicide at the local level; “the causal direction of this relationship remains in dispute, however, with some researchers maintaining that firearm violence elevates rates of gun ownership, but not the reverse.”

There is substantial variation within and across regions and localities in a number of other realms, which complicates any attempt to find a single cause for national trends. Among the variations of interest to researchers are policing techniques, punishment policies, culture, economics and residential segregation.​

Yes.....gun ownership went through the roof.....and gun crime went down...

There are studies that support the belief that guns in private hands helped lower the crime rate....I have linked to those in earlier posts....

But the real problem for you......moron.......is that the last 21 years have shown that the basic, the fundamental argument that you guys make......is wrong.....and has no basis in reality....

You guys claim that More Guns = More Gun Crime....that is your entire argument.....

And it has been proven wrong over 21 years ........as more Americans bought and carried guns....the gun crime rates went down, not up...showing that you have nothing....your arguments are based on false premises and a lack of understanding.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

More Guns......less crime.....you have nothing....

You are just spamming the same crap over and over again.

The source you yourself used - Pew even said that there were MANY factors involved in declining crime rates and that increased gun ownership was not necessarily causal in the rates going down.

Mobile phone ownership increased during that time. As mobile phone ownership went up - violent crime went down. Hmmm....according to your logic...it must be causal.

Yes.....you now have to run from the fact that the fundamental argument you guys make....

More Guns = More Gun Crime....

Is disproven by those 21 years of Americans buying more and more guns...and more and more Americans carrying those guns for self defense...showing for all the world to see that normal. law abiding people, owning and carrying guns does not increase the gun crime rate...at all.....and that the gun murder rate went down 49%....the gun crime rate went down 75%....and the violent crime rate went down 72%...

Which is the exact oppososite of what you anti gun extremists said would happen......

You have no argument....facts, research, and real world experience show you have no argument......you just want to ban guns because you are emotionally afraid of guns...

There is a direct correlation between the availability of guns (more guns) and increased gun crimes. I'm not emotionally afraid of guns. I have a gun. I just don't worship it and feel I need to drag it everywhere with me like a kid. It's a tool I use when my husband and I go target shooting. Otherwise, it's put away like my other tools.

And, speaking of "have no argument" - you're building a strawman. I don't want to ban guns. You make exactly the kind of argument that I was complaining about in my first post in this thread.

You present it as only two options: ban guns or no restrictions whatsoever on guns. Those are the only two positions you seem to see. Is there anything in between those extremes that you would consider reasonable?

No there isn't a direct correlation.....as the Pew study shows......

21 years of actual real world experience show us this......you refuse to admit it because it destroys, completely, your anti gun argument...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Rustic]

Family of 4 dies in Texas hotel shooting

A family of 4 dead. Mom shot her kids aged 5 and 10 and her husband.Then killed herself.

I wonder if those kids would still be alive if this woman found it difficult to get a gun ?

Is it just possible ?

Flor De Maria Pineda Canas went into the psych ward at San Jacinto Methodist Hospital last year.

I wonder if she would have found another method had the gun not been available. Is it just possible?

Charlotte police: Mother kills two children, self in double murder-suicide

How about the one above? Or does it not count because it interferes with your "message".

While I realize that guns are an awesome political football, the common denominator in the vast majority of these shootings is mental illness. It isn't taken seriously in the US. It's damn sure not taken seriously in Texas.

Its shocking isnt it. You will never eliminate murder but you can make it less likely.

You can stop murder...with a gun...this British family didn't have a gun...and were murdered by a homeless man with a knife....

Chilling CCTV shows homeless killer lurking in family's garden before murders

Chilling CCTV shows a homeless man 'dressed as a ninja' crawling through a family's garden before launching a brutal knife attack that left a mum and her son dead.

The footage shows Aaron Barley lurking outside the home and emerging as dad Peter Wilkinson took the family's dog for a walk.

Hmmmm...this same scenario...but in the U.S....

Attacker with knife flees after woman reveals her concealed carry gun, police say

A woman in Illinois was reportedly able to protect herself with her concealed carry firearm after a stranger with a knife jumped into her car.

Police said a woman who was parked near a shopping mall in Moline on Sunday was attacked by a man who fought his way into her car, according to WQAD 8.

During the fight, the man reportedly slashed the woman’s arm with a knife. He then ordered the woman to drive to Rock Island County, a rural area, according to police.



Fatal Lawndale shooting ruled self-defense, woman not charged

A woman who shot a man after he stabbed her multiple times Thursday afternoon in Lawndale acted in self-defense and will not be charged, police said.


Deputies: Mass Stabbing Suspect Stopped When Fourth Target Pulled a Gun - Breitbart

Deputies say a suspect who allegedly stabbed three people in Seminole, Florida, stopped when a fourth individual pulled a gun on him.
The incident occurred Sunday afternoon in broad daylight.
According to The Patch, the incident began when witnesses alleged they saw 49-year-old Bobby Martin Watson trying to rob a woman in a Publix parking lot. Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office deputies indicate that the woman–44-year-old Rosanna Lynn–struggled with Watson and he stabbed her.
Watson then ran and a witness–44-year-old Christopher McMann–approached, only to get stabbed as well.
Deputies said a second good Samaritan–31-year-old Travis Jones–then chased and tackled Watson, only to be “stabbed in the abdomen during the struggle that ensued.” Forty-year-old Donald Rush saw what was happening, grabbed his gun from his vehicle and ran at Watson. He was able to take away the knife “and held [Watson] at gunpoint until deputies arrived.”
Rush did not have to fire his gun. The sight of the brandished firearm was enough to stop the attack.
Watson was booked into the Pinellas County jail. He faces charges of “armed robbery and three counts of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.”

For every murder that is stopped with a gun....many times that number are committed with a gun.

True.

And a gun owner is much more likely to be killed by his own gun than using that gun in self-defense.

But that’s an issue which has nothing to do with the Second Amendment or the appropriateness of its case law.

A person has much more of a chance of being killed by other things than firearms in this country. Fact

 

[2aguy]

Nothing supports your positions on the 2nd Amendment....not truth, facts or reality........the Supreme Court has ruled against you, and 41 years of research shows you are wrong.....

the fact....the fact....that as more Americans have purchased and now have permits to carry guns...and our gun crime rates have gone down, show you don't know what you are talking about...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

htt

Pew is a reputable source however - it isn't really supporting what you are claiming.

For example while homicides went down...suicides went up: Gun homicides steady after decline in ’90s; suicide rate edges up

It also noted this:

The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.​

But more important - it draws no definitive causal conclusion between increased gun ownership and lower crime rates. Crime rates are affected by a complex array of factors but the gun lobby wants you to think the only factor is the increase or decrease in gun ownership. Pew notes here in this part of the report, that there are numerous factors at play.

What is Behind the Crime Decline?

Researchers continue to debate the key factors behind changing crime rates, which is part of a larger discussion about the predictors of crime.3 There is consensus that demographics played some role: The outsized post-World War II baby boom, which produced a large number of people in the high-crime ages of 15 to 20 in the 1960s and 1970s, helped drive crime up in those years.

A review by the National Academy of Sciences of factors driving recent crime trends (Blumstein and Rosenfeld, 2008) cited a decline in rates in the early 1980s as the young boomers got older, then a flare-up by mid-decade in conjunction with a rising street market for crack cocaine, especially in big cities. It noted recruitment of a younger cohort of drug seller with greater willingness to use guns. By the early 1990s, crack markets withered in part because of lessened demand, and the vibrant national economy made it easier for even low-skilled young people to find jobs rather than get involved in crime.

At the same time, a rising number of people ages 30 and older were incarcerated, due in part to stricter laws, which helped restrain violence among this age group. It is less clear, researchers say, that innovative policing strategies and police crackdowns on use of guns by younger adults played a significant role in reducing crime.

Some researchers have proposed additional explanations as to why crime levels plunged so suddenly, including increased access to abortion and lessened exposure to lead. According to one hypothesis, legalization of abortion after the 1973 Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision resulted in fewer unwanted births, and unwanted children have an increased risk of growing up to become criminals. Another theory links reduced crime to 1970s-era reductions in lead in gasoline; children’s exposure to lead causes brain damage that could be associated with violent behavior. The National Academy of Sciences review said it was unlikely that either played a major role, but researchers continue to explore both factors.

The plateau in national violent crime rates has raised interest in the topic of how local differences might influence crime levels and trends. Crime reductions took place across the country in the 1990s, but since 2000, patterns have varied more by metropolitan area or city.4

One focus of interest is that gun ownership varies widely by region and locality. The National Academy of Sciences review of possible influences on crime trends said there is good evidence of a link between firearm ownership and firearm homicide at the local level; “the causal direction of this relationship remains in dispute, however, with some researchers maintaining that firearm violence elevates rates of gun ownership, but not the reverse.”

There is substantial variation within and across regions and localities in a number of other realms, which complicates any attempt to find a single cause for national trends. Among the variations of interest to researchers are policing techniques, punishment policies, culture, economics and residential segregation.​

Yes.....gun ownership went through the roof.....and gun crime went down...

There are studies that support the belief that guns in private hands helped lower the crime rate....I have linked to those in earlier posts....

But the real problem for you......moron.......is that the last 21 years have shown that the basic, the fundamental argument that you guys make......is wrong.....and has no basis in reality....

You guys claim that More Guns = More Gun Crime....that is your entire argument.....

And it has been proven wrong over 21 years ........as more Americans bought and carried guns....the gun crime rates went down, not up...showing that you have nothing....your arguments are based on false premises and a lack of understanding.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

More Guns......less crime.....you have nothing....

You are just spamming the same crap over and over again.

The source you yourself used - Pew even said that there were MANY factors involved in declining crime rates and that increased gun ownership was not necessarily causal in the rates going down.

Mobile phone ownership increased during that time. As mobile phone ownership went up - violent crime went down. Hmmm....according to your logic...it must be causal.

Yes.....you now have to run from the fact that the fundamental argument you guys make....

More Guns = More Gun Crime....

Is disproven by those 21 years of Americans buying more and more guns...and more and more Americans carrying those guns for self defense...showing for all the world to see that normal. law abiding people, owning and carrying guns does not increase the gun crime rate...at all.....and that the gun murder rate went down 49%....the gun crime rate went down 75%....and the violent crime rate went down 72%...

Which is the exact oppososite of what you anti gun extremists said would happen......

You have no argument....facts, research, and real world experience show you have no argument......you just want to ban guns because you are emotionally afraid of guns...

There is a direct correlation between the availability of guns (more guns) and increased gun crimes. I'm not emotionally afraid of guns. I have a gun. I just don't worship it and feel I need to drag it everywhere with me like a kid. It's a tool I use when my husband and I go target shooting. Otherwise, it's put away like my other tools.

And, speaking of "have no argument" - you're building a strawman. I don't want to ban guns. You make exactly the kind of argument that I was complaining about in my first post in this thread.

You present it as only two options: ban guns or no restrictions whatsoever on guns. Those are the only two positions you seem to see. Is there anything in between those extremes that you would consider reasonable?

Moron

There is a direct correlation between the availability of guns (more guns) and increased gun crimes.

Baltimore has all of the extreme gun control laws you want....fingerprinting, registering guns, assault weapon ban, magazine limits......every single one...

Houston....in a border state next to the drug cartel regions of Mexico......has gun stores on every corner, and people carry guns easily..........

Murder rate 2017
Baltimore......343
Population of cities 2016:



Houston........2.3 million

Baltimore......620,961


Murder rate 2016:


Houston .......301

Baltimore......318

Moron......you don't know what you are talking about......

 

[Coyote]

Pew is a reputable source however - it isn't really supporting what you are claiming.

For example while homicides went down...suicides went up: Gun homicides steady after decline in ’90s; suicide rate edges up

It also noted this:

The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.​

But more important - it draws no definitive causal conclusion between increased gun ownership and lower crime rates. Crime rates are affected by a complex array of factors but the gun lobby wants you to think the only factor is the increase or decrease in gun ownership. Pew notes here in this part of the report, that there are numerous factors at play.

What is Behind the Crime Decline?

Researchers continue to debate the key factors behind changing crime rates, which is part of a larger discussion about the predictors of crime.3 There is consensus that demographics played some role: The outsized post-World War II baby boom, which produced a large number of people in the high-crime ages of 15 to 20 in the 1960s and 1970s, helped drive crime up in those years.

A review by the National Academy of Sciences of factors driving recent crime trends (Blumstein and Rosenfeld, 2008) cited a decline in rates in the early 1980s as the young boomers got older, then a flare-up by mid-decade in conjunction with a rising street market for crack cocaine, especially in big cities. It noted recruitment of a younger cohort of drug seller with greater willingness to use guns. By the early 1990s, crack markets withered in part because of lessened demand, and the vibrant national economy made it easier for even low-skilled young people to find jobs rather than get involved in crime.

At the same time, a rising number of people ages 30 and older were incarcerated, due in part to stricter laws, which helped restrain violence among this age group. It is less clear, researchers say, that innovative policing strategies and police crackdowns on use of guns by younger adults played a significant role in reducing crime.

Some researchers have proposed additional explanations as to why crime levels plunged so suddenly, including increased access to abortion and lessened exposure to lead. According to one hypothesis, legalization of abortion after the 1973 Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision resulted in fewer unwanted births, and unwanted children have an increased risk of growing up to become criminals. Another theory links reduced crime to 1970s-era reductions in lead in gasoline; children’s exposure to lead causes brain damage that could be associated with violent behavior. The National Academy of Sciences review said it was unlikely that either played a major role, but researchers continue to explore both factors.

The plateau in national violent crime rates has raised interest in the topic of how local differences might influence crime levels and trends. Crime reductions took place across the country in the 1990s, but since 2000, patterns have varied more by metropolitan area or city.4

One focus of interest is that gun ownership varies widely by region and locality. The National Academy of Sciences review of possible influences on crime trends said there is good evidence of a link between firearm ownership and firearm homicide at the local level; “the causal direction of this relationship remains in dispute, however, with some researchers maintaining that firearm violence elevates rates of gun ownership, but not the reverse.”

There is substantial variation within and across regions and localities in a number of other realms, which complicates any attempt to find a single cause for national trends. Among the variations of interest to researchers are policing techniques, punishment policies, culture, economics and residential segregation.​

As to the other questions...

It also noted this:
The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.

They asked uninformed people, unrefined questions and got those results.....

As I have posted before....ask those same people if they support background checks if they are willing to register their guns with the government, and inform them that in every country that registered guns, guns were banned and confiscated.....and then ask them if it is correct that law abiding citizens will have to register their guns......while felons and other criminals will not have to register their illegal guns due to the Haynes v. United States Supreme Court decision.....

Dittos the federal background data base...ask them if they realize that such a data base will not solve crimes or prevent them.....and if that is the case, and that a national data base will allow the government to ban and confiscate guns at a later date, if they still support that data base.....

Then....ask them to explain what an "Assault Rifle" is.....and ask them if the fact that they are used to murder very few people in this country...and that knives, clubs and empty hands kill more people every single year than all types of rifles do....

Ask those questions with that information....doofus.....then get back to us with the poll results.....

So...now you are saying the SAME poll (Pew) you used to SUPPORT your claims is now based on "uninformed people" answering "unrefined questions" when it comes to that ONE paragraph?

No, dipshit....please keep up.....Pew showed that gun murder went down, gun crime went down, violent crime went down...those are facts....

You then went on to try to use opinion polls to push anti gun actions that do not work, and I showed you that those people responding to the opinion part of the Pew Research were not given accurate questions to respond to.......

You showed nothing of the sort. Dipshit.

You took Pew's facts and used them to claim it was caused by increased gun ownership when Pew made no such causal claim.

No...dipshit....I showed that Americans owning guns does not increase the gun crime rate....then I also linked to research that shows that Americans who own and also carry guns decrease the violent crime rate...

And I linked to research that showed no correlation between gun ownership and a decrease in violent crime and infact - research showing a correlation between an increase in gun ownership and an increase in gun related deaths (not necessarily violent crime - but deaths). But you claim it's from "rabid anti-gun nuts" while expecting me to accept research from "rabid pro gun nuts".

And again, you are running away and trying to avoid the fact....that the entire foundational argument of the anti gun extremism you follow........is wrong......and has no basis in facts, statistics or reality......

I'm not running away from anything dude. I'm here talking with you now.

As more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down, our violent crime rate went down....

As more Americans own and carry cellphones....our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down, our violent crime rate went down....

As an additional point...as Britain did the exact opposite...banned and confiscated guns...their gun crime rate went up, their violent crime rate went up....

It's extremely difficult to compare crime statistics across countries....but answer this: Who has a hire rate of gun deaths per capita - the US or Britain?

 

[Coyote]

Flor De Maria Pineda Canas went into the psych ward at San Jacinto Methodist Hospital last year.

I wonder if she would have found another method had the gun not been available. Is it just possible?

Charlotte police: Mother kills two children, self in double murder-suicide

How about the one above? Or does it not count because it interferes with your "message".

While I realize that guns are an awesome political football, the common denominator in the vast majority of these shootings is mental illness. It isn't taken seriously in the US. It's damn sure not taken seriously in Texas.

Its shocking isnt it. You will never eliminate murder but you can make it less likely.

You can stop murder...with a gun...this British family didn't have a gun...and were murdered by a homeless man with a knife....

Chilling CCTV shows homeless killer lurking in family's garden before murders

Chilling CCTV shows a homeless man 'dressed as a ninja' crawling through a family's garden before launching a brutal knife attack that left a mum and her son dead.

The footage shows Aaron Barley lurking outside the home and emerging as dad Peter Wilkinson took the family's dog for a walk.

Hmmmm...this same scenario...but in the U.S....

Attacker with knife flees after woman reveals her concealed carry gun, police say

A woman in Illinois was reportedly able to protect herself with her concealed carry firearm after a stranger with a knife jumped into her car.

Police said a woman who was parked near a shopping mall in Moline on Sunday was attacked by a man who fought his way into her car, according to WQAD 8.

During the fight, the man reportedly slashed the woman’s arm with a knife. He then ordered the woman to drive to Rock Island County, a rural area, according to police.



Fatal Lawndale shooting ruled self-defense, woman not charged

A woman who shot a man after he stabbed her multiple times Thursday afternoon in Lawndale acted in self-defense and will not be charged, police said.


Deputies: Mass Stabbing Suspect Stopped When Fourth Target Pulled a Gun - Breitbart

Deputies say a suspect who allegedly stabbed three people in Seminole, Florida, stopped when a fourth individual pulled a gun on him.
The incident occurred Sunday afternoon in broad daylight.
According to The Patch, the incident began when witnesses alleged they saw 49-year-old Bobby Martin Watson trying to rob a woman in a Publix parking lot. Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office deputies indicate that the woman–44-year-old Rosanna Lynn–struggled with Watson and he stabbed her.
Watson then ran and a witness–44-year-old Christopher McMann–approached, only to get stabbed as well.
Deputies said a second good Samaritan–31-year-old Travis Jones–then chased and tackled Watson, only to be “stabbed in the abdomen during the struggle that ensued.” Forty-year-old Donald Rush saw what was happening, grabbed his gun from his vehicle and ran at Watson. He was able to take away the knife “and held [Watson] at gunpoint until deputies arrived.”
Rush did not have to fire his gun. The sight of the brandished firearm was enough to stop the attack.
Watson was booked into the Pinellas County jail. He faces charges of “armed robbery and three counts of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.”

For every murder that is stopped with a gun....many times that number are committed with a gun.

True.

And a gun owner is much more likely to be killed by his own gun than using that gun in self-defense.

But that’s an issue which has nothing to do with the Second Amendment or the appropriateness of its case law.

A person has much more of a chance of being killed by other things than firearms in this country. Fact

Depends on what things and where you are. Where I live - probably true. Just like a person has a more of a chance being struck by lightening than killed by a terrorist act.

 

[Aba Incieni]

Nothing supports your positions on the 2nd Amendment....not truth, facts or reality........the Supreme Court has ruled against you, and 41 years of research shows you are wrong.....

the fact....the fact....that as more Americans have purchased and now have permits to carry guns...and our gun crime rates have gone down, show you don't know what you are talking about...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

htt

Pew is a reputable source however - it isn't really supporting what you are claiming.

For example while homicides went down...suicides went up: Gun homicides steady after decline in ’90s; suicide rate edges up

It also noted this:

The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.​

But more important - it draws no definitive causal conclusion between increased gun ownership and lower crime rates. Crime rates are affected by a complex array of factors but the gun lobby wants you to think the only factor is the increase or decrease in gun ownership. Pew notes here in this part of the report, that there are numerous factors at play.

What is Behind the Crime Decline?

Researchers continue to debate the key factors behind changing crime rates, which is part of a larger discussion about the predictors of crime.3 There is consensus that demographics played some role: The outsized post-World War II baby boom, which produced a large number of people in the high-crime ages of 15 to 20 in the 1960s and 1970s, helped drive crime up in those years.

A review by the National Academy of Sciences of factors driving recent crime trends (Blumstein and Rosenfeld, 2008) cited a decline in rates in the early 1980s as the young boomers got older, then a flare-up by mid-decade in conjunction with a rising street market for crack cocaine, especially in big cities. It noted recruitment of a younger cohort of drug seller with greater willingness to use guns. By the early 1990s, crack markets withered in part because of lessened demand, and the vibrant national economy made it easier for even low-skilled young people to find jobs rather than get involved in crime.

At the same time, a rising number of people ages 30 and older were incarcerated, due in part to stricter laws, which helped restrain violence among this age group. It is less clear, researchers say, that innovative policing strategies and police crackdowns on use of guns by younger adults played a significant role in reducing crime.

Some researchers have proposed additional explanations as to why crime levels plunged so suddenly, including increased access to abortion and lessened exposure to lead. According to one hypothesis, legalization of abortion after the 1973 Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision resulted in fewer unwanted births, and unwanted children have an increased risk of growing up to become criminals. Another theory links reduced crime to 1970s-era reductions in lead in gasoline; children’s exposure to lead causes brain damage that could be associated with violent behavior. The National Academy of Sciences review said it was unlikely that either played a major role, but researchers continue to explore both factors.

The plateau in national violent crime rates has raised interest in the topic of how local differences might influence crime levels and trends. Crime reductions took place across the country in the 1990s, but since 2000, patterns have varied more by metropolitan area or city.4

One focus of interest is that gun ownership varies widely by region and locality. The National Academy of Sciences review of possible influences on crime trends said there is good evidence of a link between firearm ownership and firearm homicide at the local level; “the causal direction of this relationship remains in dispute, however, with some researchers maintaining that firearm violence elevates rates of gun ownership, but not the reverse.”

There is substantial variation within and across regions and localities in a number of other realms, which complicates any attempt to find a single cause for national trends. Among the variations of interest to researchers are policing techniques, punishment policies, culture, economics and residential segregation.​

Yes.....gun ownership went through the roof.....and gun crime went down...

There are studies that support the belief that guns in private hands helped lower the crime rate....I have linked to those in earlier posts....

But the real problem for you......moron.......is that the last 21 years have shown that the basic, the fundamental argument that you guys make......is wrong.....and has no basis in reality....

You guys claim that More Guns = More Gun Crime....that is your entire argument.....

And it has been proven wrong over 21 years ........as more Americans bought and carried guns....the gun crime rates went down, not up...showing that you have nothing....your arguments are based on false premises and a lack of understanding.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

More Guns......less crime.....you have nothing....

You are just spamming the same crap over and over again.

The source you yourself used - Pew even said that there were MANY factors involved in declining crime rates and that increased gun ownership was not necessarily causal in the rates going down.

Mobile phone ownership increased during that time. As mobile phone ownership went up - violent crime went down. Hmmm....according to your logic...it must be causal.

Yes.....you now have to run from the fact that the fundamental argument you guys make....

More Guns = More Gun Crime....

Is disproven by those 21 years of Americans buying more and more guns...and more and more Americans carrying those guns for self defense...showing for all the world to see that normal. law abiding people, owning and carrying guns does not increase the gun crime rate...at all.....and that the gun murder rate went down 49%....the gun crime rate went down 75%....and the violent crime rate went down 72%...

Which is the exact oppososite of what you anti gun extremists said would happen......

You have no argument....facts, research, and real world experience show you have no argument......you just want to ban guns because you are emotionally afraid of guns...

There is a direct correlation between the availability of guns (more guns) and increased gun crimes. I'm not emotionally afraid of guns. I have a gun. I just don't worship it and feel I need to drag it everywhere with me like a kid. It's a tool I use when my husband and I go target shooting. Otherwise, it's put away like my other tools.

And, speaking of "have no argument" - you're building a strawman. I don't want to ban guns. You make exactly the kind of argument that I was complaining about in my first post in this thread.

You present it as only two options: ban guns or no restrictions whatsoever on guns. Those are the only two positions you seem to see. Is there anything in between those extremes that you would consider reasonable?

There are many restrictions on guns already. Criminals ignore them all.

 

[Rustic]

For every murder that is stopped with a gun....many times that number are committed with a gun.

You lie.

Do you even know WHO is committing those murders and other gun crimes? How does violating their Second Amendment prevent a gun crime?

If you are going to accuse me of lying then disprove what I said.

What specific action is violating someone’s 2nd Amendment Rights?

California New York and Massachusetts have openly violated the Right to keep and Bear arms.....magazine bans, concealed carry bans, and may issue laws, as well as assault weapon bans.....licensing, registration, also violate the right...

None of that violates the right. No right is unrestricted.

Can they purchase a firearm?

Progressives don’t get to dictate the rights of normal people, because They have no credibility

 

[Rustic]

Its shocking isnt it. You will never eliminate murder but you can make it less likely.

You can stop murder...with a gun...this British family didn't have a gun...and were murdered by a homeless man with a knife....

Chilling CCTV shows homeless killer lurking in family's garden before murders

Chilling CCTV shows a homeless man 'dressed as a ninja' crawling through a family's garden before launching a brutal knife attack that left a mum and her son dead.

The footage shows Aaron Barley lurking outside the home and emerging as dad Peter Wilkinson took the family's dog for a walk.

Hmmmm...this same scenario...but in the U.S....

Attacker with knife flees after woman reveals her concealed carry gun, police say

A woman in Illinois was reportedly able to protect herself with her concealed carry firearm after a stranger with a knife jumped into her car.

Police said a woman who was parked near a shopping mall in Moline on Sunday was attacked by a man who fought his way into her car, according to WQAD 8.

During the fight, the man reportedly slashed the woman’s arm with a knife. He then ordered the woman to drive to Rock Island County, a rural area, according to police.



Fatal Lawndale shooting ruled self-defense, woman not charged

A woman who shot a man after he stabbed her multiple times Thursday afternoon in Lawndale acted in self-defense and will not be charged, police said.


Deputies: Mass Stabbing Suspect Stopped When Fourth Target Pulled a Gun - Breitbart

Deputies say a suspect who allegedly stabbed three people in Seminole, Florida, stopped when a fourth individual pulled a gun on him.
The incident occurred Sunday afternoon in broad daylight.
According to The Patch, the incident began when witnesses alleged they saw 49-year-old Bobby Martin Watson trying to rob a woman in a Publix parking lot. Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office deputies indicate that the woman–44-year-old Rosanna Lynn–struggled with Watson and he stabbed her.
Watson then ran and a witness–44-year-old Christopher McMann–approached, only to get stabbed as well.
Deputies said a second good Samaritan–31-year-old Travis Jones–then chased and tackled Watson, only to be “stabbed in the abdomen during the struggle that ensued.” Forty-year-old Donald Rush saw what was happening, grabbed his gun from his vehicle and ran at Watson. He was able to take away the knife “and held [Watson] at gunpoint until deputies arrived.”
Rush did not have to fire his gun. The sight of the brandished firearm was enough to stop the attack.
Watson was booked into the Pinellas County jail. He faces charges of “armed robbery and three counts of aggravated battery with a deadly weapon.”

For every murder that is stopped with a gun....many times that number are committed with a gun.

True.

And a gun owner is much more likely to be killed by his own gun than using that gun in self-defense.

But that’s an issue which has nothing to do with the Second Amendment or the appropriateness of its case law.

A person has much more of a chance of being killed by other things than firearms in this country. Fact

Depends on what things and where you are. Where I live - probably true. Just like a person has a more of a chance being struck by lightening than killed by a terrorist act.

Firearm violence is the least of our worries, We have much bigger fish to fry. See...
2018 Real Time Death Statistics in America

 

[westwall]

Nothing supports your positions on the 2nd Amendment....not truth, facts or reality........the Supreme Court has ruled against you, and 41 years of research shows you are wrong.....

the fact....the fact....that as more Americans have purchased and now have permits to carry guns...and our gun crime rates have gone down, show you don't know what you are talking about...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

htt

Pew is a reputable source however - it isn't really supporting what you are claiming.

For example while homicides went down...suicides went up: Gun homicides steady after decline in ’90s; suicide rate edges up

It also noted this:

The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.​

But more important - it draws no definitive causal conclusion between increased gun ownership and lower crime rates. Crime rates are affected by a complex array of factors but the gun lobby wants you to think the only factor is the increase or decrease in gun ownership. Pew notes here in this part of the report, that there are numerous factors at play.

What is Behind the Crime Decline?

Researchers continue to debate the key factors behind changing crime rates, which is part of a larger discussion about the predictors of crime.3 There is consensus that demographics played some role: The outsized post-World War II baby boom, which produced a large number of people in the high-crime ages of 15 to 20 in the 1960s and 1970s, helped drive crime up in those years.

A review by the National Academy of Sciences of factors driving recent crime trends (Blumstein and Rosenfeld, 2008) cited a decline in rates in the early 1980s as the young boomers got older, then a flare-up by mid-decade in conjunction with a rising street market for crack cocaine, especially in big cities. It noted recruitment of a younger cohort of drug seller with greater willingness to use guns. By the early 1990s, crack markets withered in part because of lessened demand, and the vibrant national economy made it easier for even low-skilled young people to find jobs rather than get involved in crime.

At the same time, a rising number of people ages 30 and older were incarcerated, due in part to stricter laws, which helped restrain violence among this age group. It is less clear, researchers say, that innovative policing strategies and police crackdowns on use of guns by younger adults played a significant role in reducing crime.

Some researchers have proposed additional explanations as to why crime levels plunged so suddenly, including increased access to abortion and lessened exposure to lead. According to one hypothesis, legalization of abortion after the 1973 Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision resulted in fewer unwanted births, and unwanted children have an increased risk of growing up to become criminals. Another theory links reduced crime to 1970s-era reductions in lead in gasoline; children’s exposure to lead causes brain damage that could be associated with violent behavior. The National Academy of Sciences review said it was unlikely that either played a major role, but researchers continue to explore both factors.

The plateau in national violent crime rates has raised interest in the topic of how local differences might influence crime levels and trends. Crime reductions took place across the country in the 1990s, but since 2000, patterns have varied more by metropolitan area or city.4

One focus of interest is that gun ownership varies widely by region and locality. The National Academy of Sciences review of possible influences on crime trends said there is good evidence of a link between firearm ownership and firearm homicide at the local level; “the causal direction of this relationship remains in dispute, however, with some researchers maintaining that firearm violence elevates rates of gun ownership, but not the reverse.”

There is substantial variation within and across regions and localities in a number of other realms, which complicates any attempt to find a single cause for national trends. Among the variations of interest to researchers are policing techniques, punishment policies, culture, economics and residential segregation.​

Yes.....gun ownership went through the roof.....and gun crime went down...

There are studies that support the belief that guns in private hands helped lower the crime rate....I have linked to those in earlier posts....

But the real problem for you......moron.......is that the last 21 years have shown that the basic, the fundamental argument that you guys make......is wrong.....and has no basis in reality....

You guys claim that More Guns = More Gun Crime....that is your entire argument.....

And it has been proven wrong over 21 years ........as more Americans bought and carried guns....the gun crime rates went down, not up...showing that you have nothing....your arguments are based on false premises and a lack of understanding.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

More Guns......less crime.....you have nothing....

You are just spamming the same crap over and over again.

The source you yourself used - Pew even said that there were MANY factors involved in declining crime rates and that increased gun ownership was not necessarily causal in the rates going down.

Mobile phone ownership increased during that time. As mobile phone ownership went up - violent crime went down. Hmmm....according to your logic...it must be causal.

Yes.....you now have to run from the fact that the fundamental argument you guys make....

More Guns = More Gun Crime....

Is disproven by those 21 years of Americans buying more and more guns...and more and more Americans carrying those guns for self defense...showing for all the world to see that normal. law abiding people, owning and carrying guns does not increase the gun crime rate...at all.....and that the gun murder rate went down 49%....the gun crime rate went down 75%....and the violent crime rate went down 72%...

Which is the exact oppososite of what you anti gun extremists said would happen......

You have no argument....facts, research, and real world experience show you have no argument......you just want to ban guns because you are emotionally afraid of guns...

There is a direct correlation between the availability of guns (more guns) and increased gun crimes. I'm not emotionally afraid of guns. I have a gun. I just don't worship it and feel I need to drag it everywhere with me like a kid. It's a tool I use when my husband and I go target shooting. Otherwise, it's put away like my other tools.

And, speaking of "have no argument" - you're building a strawman. I don't want to ban guns. You make exactly the kind of argument that I was complaining about in my first post in this thread.

You present it as only two options: ban guns or no restrictions whatsoever on guns. Those are the only two positions you seem to see. Is there anything in between those extremes that you would consider reasonable?

This statement is factually incorrect Coyote.

 

[2aguy]

As to the other questions...

It also noted this:
The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.

They asked uninformed people, unrefined questions and got those results.....

As I have posted before....ask those same people if they support background checks if they are willing to register their guns with the government, and inform them that in every country that registered guns, guns were banned and confiscated.....and then ask them if it is correct that law abiding citizens will have to register their guns......while felons and other criminals will not have to register their illegal guns due to the Haynes v. United States Supreme Court decision.....

Dittos the federal background data base...ask them if they realize that such a data base will not solve crimes or prevent them.....and if that is the case, and that a national data base will allow the government to ban and confiscate guns at a later date, if they still support that data base.....

Then....ask them to explain what an "Assault Rifle" is.....and ask them if the fact that they are used to murder very few people in this country...and that knives, clubs and empty hands kill more people every single year than all types of rifles do....

Ask those questions with that information....doofus.....then get back to us with the poll results.....

So...now you are saying the SAME poll (Pew) you used to SUPPORT your claims is now based on "uninformed people" answering "unrefined questions" when it comes to that ONE paragraph?

No, dipshit....please keep up.....Pew showed that gun murder went down, gun crime went down, violent crime went down...those are facts....

You then went on to try to use opinion polls to push anti gun actions that do not work, and I showed you that those people responding to the opinion part of the Pew Research were not given accurate questions to respond to.......

You showed nothing of the sort. Dipshit.

You took Pew's facts and used them to claim it was caused by increased gun ownership when Pew made no such causal claim.

No...dipshit....I showed that Americans owning guns does not increase the gun crime rate....then I also linked to research that shows that Americans who own and also carry guns decrease the violent crime rate...

And I linked to research that showed no correlation between gun ownership and a decrease in violent crime and infact - research showing a correlation between an increase in gun ownership and an increase in gun related deaths (not necessarily violent crime - but deaths). But you claim it's from "rabid anti-gun nuts" while expecting me to accept research from "rabid pro gun nuts".

And again, you are running away and trying to avoid the fact....that the entire foundational argument of the anti gun extremism you follow........is wrong......and has no basis in facts, statistics or reality......

I'm not running away from anything dude. I'm here talking with you now.

As more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down, our violent crime rate went down....

As more Americans own and carry cellphones....our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down, our violent crime rate went down....

As an additional point...as Britain did the exact opposite...banned and confiscated guns...their gun crime rate went up, their violent crime rate went up....

It's extremely difficult to compare crime statistics across countries....but answer this: Who has a hire rate of gun deaths per capita - the US or Britain?

Here you go....dumb ass...


Gun control doesn’t reduce crime, violence, say studies

The National Academy of Sciences issued a 328-page report based on 253 journal articles, 99 books, 43 government publications, a survey of 80 different gun-control laws and some of its own independent study.

In short, the panel could find no link between restrictions on gun ownership and lower rates of crime, firearms violence or even accidents with guns.

And Britain.....you cling to the murder rate because British criminals don't murder their victims at the rate our criminals do...but they banned guns, they confiscated guns and their gun crime rate is going up, not down, their violent crime rate is going up, not down...



U.K. Begins Another Gun Surrender Initiative Amid Increase in Gun Crime

The United Kingdom's National Ballistics Intelligence Service (NABIS) is conducting a new gun surrender program from Nov. 13 to Nov. 26 after gun crime in England and Wales increased by more than a quarter in the past year.

The Office for National Statistics found a 27 percent increase in crimes involving firearms during its most recent review of crime data. Despite a near ban on the civilian ownership of handguns the review found crimes committed with handguns increased by 25 percent and accounted for the majority of gun crimes. The agency said the increases in 2016 were part of a multiyear trend.

Culture of violence: Gun crime goes up by 89% in a decade | Daily Mail Online

The latest Government figures show that the total number of firearm offences in England and Wales has increased from 5,209 in 1998/99 to 9,865 last year - a rise of 89 per cent.

The number of people injured or killed by guns, excluding air weapons, has increased from 864 in 1998/99 to a provisional figure of 1,760 in 2008/09, an increase of 104 per cent .




========



Crime rise is biggest in a decade, ONS figures show

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences, largely driven by an increase in the use of handguns.

=========



Gun crime in London increases by 42% - BBC News

Gun crime offences in London surged by 42% in the last year, according to official statistics.

Top trauma surgeon reveals shocking extent of London’s gun crime

A leading trauma surgeon has told how the number of patients treated for gunshot injuries at a major London hospital has doubled in the last five years.

----

He said the hospital’s major trauma centre had seen a bigger rise in gunshot injuries compared to knife wounds and that the average age of victims was getting younger.

-----

Last year, gun crime offences in London increased for a third year running and by 42 per cent, from 1,793 offences in 2015/16 to 2,544 offences in 2016/17. Police have seized 635 guns off the streets so far this year.

Dr Griffiths, who also teaches medical students, said: “Our numbers of victims of gun injury have doubled [since 2012]. Gunshot injuries represent about 2.5 per cent of our penetrating trauma.

-----

Dr Griffiths said the average age of gun crime victims needing treatment at the hospital had decreased from 25 to the mid to late teens since 2012.

He added that medics at the Barts Health hospital’s major trauma centre in Whitechapel had seen a bigger rise in patients with gun injuries rather than knife wounds and that most were caused by pistols or shotguns.

Met Police commander Jim Stokley, who was also invited to speak at the meeting, said that handguns and shotguns were the weapons of choice and that 46 per cent of London’s gun crime discharges were gang-related.

He said: “We believe that a lot of it is associated with the drugs trade, and by that I mean people dealing drugs at street level and disagreements between different gangs.”

Violent crime on the rise in every corner of the country, figures suggest

But analysis of the figures force by force, showed the full extent of the problem, with only one constabulary, Nottinghamshire, recording a reduction in violent offences.

The vast majority of police forces actually witnessed double digit rises in violent crime, with Northumbria posting a 95 per cent increase year on year.

Of the other forces, Durham Police recorded a 73 per cent rise; West Yorkshire was up 48 per cent; Avon and Somerset 45 per cent; Dorset 39 per cent and Warwickshire 37 per cent.

Elsewhere Humberside, South Yorkshire, Staffordshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Kent, Wiltshire and Dyfed Powys all saw violence rise by more than a quarter year on year.




-------

Two men stabbed dead within hours as violent crime soars in London

The shocking attacks come as new figures revealed crime overall in London is rising, with significant increases in cases of youth violence.


A total of 35 young people under the age of 25 have been murdered in the capital in the last 12 months, an 84 per cent rise on the same period last year.

The number of cases of serious youth violence - a measure of gang activity - also rose by 18 per cent.

-----


as well as a 16 per cent rise in the number of rapes.

-------

Gun crime rose by nearly 19 per cent and the number of shootings was up by 11 per cent to 338.

==============

London now more dangerous than New York City, crime stats suggest

While both London and New York have populations of around 8 million, figures suggest you are almost six times more likely to be burgled in the British capital than in the US city, and one and a half times more likely to fall victim to a robbery.

London has almost three times the number of reported rapes and while the murder rate in New York remains higher, the gap is narrowing dramatically.


The change in fortunes of the two global cities has been put down largely to the difference in tactics adopted by the two police forces.

Both Scotland Yard and the New York City Police Department (NYPD) have just over 30,000 officers each and budgets of around £3 billion a year.

But in the mid-1990s spiralling crime rates in New York - sparked by the crack cocaine epidemic - resulted in radical a new approach being adopted by the city's police department.

Under the leadership of Mayor Rudy Giuliani, and police commissioner, Bill Bratton, the NYPD introduced a zero tolerance approach to low level crime and flooded problem areas with patrols.

The force also put a huge amount of emphasis on community policing in order to build bridges between the police and members of the public.

As a result the murder plummeted from a high in 1990 of over 2,000 to a record low of 335 last year.

That figure is expected to fall even lower this year, and is currently in line to dip below 240.

=======

 

[Weatherman2020]

Family of 4 dies in Texas hotel shooting

A family of 4 dead. Mom shot her kids aged 5 and 10 and her husband.Then killed herself.

I wonder if those kids would still be alive if this woman found it difficult to get a gun ?

Is it just possible ?

Ban all Democrats from owning guns.
95% of the problem solved.

 

[2aguy]

As to the other questions...

It also noted this:
The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.

They asked uninformed people, unrefined questions and got those results.....

As I have posted before....ask those same people if they support background checks if they are willing to register their guns with the government, and inform them that in every country that registered guns, guns were banned and confiscated.....and then ask them if it is correct that law abiding citizens will have to register their guns......while felons and other criminals will not have to register their illegal guns due to the Haynes v. United States Supreme Court decision.....

Dittos the federal background data base...ask them if they realize that such a data base will not solve crimes or prevent them.....and if that is the case, and that a national data base will allow the government to ban and confiscate guns at a later date, if they still support that data base.....

Then....ask them to explain what an "Assault Rifle" is.....and ask them if the fact that they are used to murder very few people in this country...and that knives, clubs and empty hands kill more people every single year than all types of rifles do....

Ask those questions with that information....doofus.....then get back to us with the poll results.....

So...now you are saying the SAME poll (Pew) you used to SUPPORT your claims is now based on "uninformed people" answering "unrefined questions" when it comes to that ONE paragraph?

No, dipshit....please keep up.....Pew showed that gun murder went down, gun crime went down, violent crime went down...those are facts....

You then went on to try to use opinion polls to push anti gun actions that do not work, and I showed you that those people responding to the opinion part of the Pew Research were not given accurate questions to respond to.......

You showed nothing of the sort. Dipshit.

You took Pew's facts and used them to claim it was caused by increased gun ownership when Pew made no such causal claim.

No...dipshit....I showed that Americans owning guns does not increase the gun crime rate....then I also linked to research that shows that Americans who own and also carry guns decrease the violent crime rate...

And I linked to research that showed no correlation between gun ownership and a decrease in violent crime and infact - research showing a correlation between an increase in gun ownership and an increase in gun related deaths (not necessarily violent crime - but deaths). But you claim it's from "rabid anti-gun nuts" while expecting me to accept research from "rabid pro gun nuts".

And again, you are running away and trying to avoid the fact....that the entire foundational argument of the anti gun extremism you follow........is wrong......and has no basis in facts, statistics or reality......

I'm not running away from anything dude. I'm here talking with you now.

As more Americans own and carry guns....our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down, our violent crime rate went down....

As more Americans own and carry cellphones....our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down, our violent crime rate went down....

As an additional point...as Britain did the exact opposite...banned and confiscated guns...their gun crime rate went up, their violent crime rate went up....

It's extremely difficult to compare crime statistics across countries....but answer this: Who has a hire rate of gun deaths per capita - the US or Britain?

As more Americans own and carry cellphones....our gun murder rate went down, our gun crime rate went down, our violent crime rate went down....

Nice try...that isn't the argument you anti gunners make.....you state over and over and you have done it here as well....

More guns = more gun crime......

And 21 years have shown this is not true...it isn't based in facts or reality....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/05/07/gun-homicide-rate-down-49-since-1993-peak-public-unaware/

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Nothing supports your positions on the 2nd Amendment....not truth, facts or reality........the Supreme Court has ruled against you, and 41 years of research shows you are wrong.....

the fact....the fact....that as more Americans have purchased and now have permits to carry guns...and our gun crime rates have gone down, show you don't know what you are talking about...

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

htt

Pew is a reputable source however - it isn't really supporting what you are claiming.

For example while homicides went down...suicides went up: Gun homicides steady after decline in ’90s; suicide rate edges up

It also noted this:

The July survey also found that Americans strongly support a variety of specific gun control measures, including expanded background checks (85%), laws to prevent people with mental illness from purchasing guns (79%) and creation of a federal database to track all gun sales (70%). A smaller majority (57%) support a ban on assault-style weapons.​

But more important - it draws no definitive causal conclusion between increased gun ownership and lower crime rates. Crime rates are affected by a complex array of factors but the gun lobby wants you to think the only factor is the increase or decrease in gun ownership. Pew notes here in this part of the report, that there are numerous factors at play.

What is Behind the Crime Decline?

Researchers continue to debate the key factors behind changing crime rates, which is part of a larger discussion about the predictors of crime.3 There is consensus that demographics played some role: The outsized post-World War II baby boom, which produced a large number of people in the high-crime ages of 15 to 20 in the 1960s and 1970s, helped drive crime up in those years.

A review by the National Academy of Sciences of factors driving recent crime trends (Blumstein and Rosenfeld, 2008) cited a decline in rates in the early 1980s as the young boomers got older, then a flare-up by mid-decade in conjunction with a rising street market for crack cocaine, especially in big cities. It noted recruitment of a younger cohort of drug seller with greater willingness to use guns. By the early 1990s, crack markets withered in part because of lessened demand, and the vibrant national economy made it easier for even low-skilled young people to find jobs rather than get involved in crime.

At the same time, a rising number of people ages 30 and older were incarcerated, due in part to stricter laws, which helped restrain violence among this age group. It is less clear, researchers say, that innovative policing strategies and police crackdowns on use of guns by younger adults played a significant role in reducing crime.

Some researchers have proposed additional explanations as to why crime levels plunged so suddenly, including increased access to abortion and lessened exposure to lead. According to one hypothesis, legalization of abortion after the 1973 Supreme Court Roe v. Wade decision resulted in fewer unwanted births, and unwanted children have an increased risk of growing up to become criminals. Another theory links reduced crime to 1970s-era reductions in lead in gasoline; children’s exposure to lead causes brain damage that could be associated with violent behavior. The National Academy of Sciences review said it was unlikely that either played a major role, but researchers continue to explore both factors.

The plateau in national violent crime rates has raised interest in the topic of how local differences might influence crime levels and trends. Crime reductions took place across the country in the 1990s, but since 2000, patterns have varied more by metropolitan area or city.4

One focus of interest is that gun ownership varies widely by region and locality. The National Academy of Sciences review of possible influences on crime trends said there is good evidence of a link between firearm ownership and firearm homicide at the local level; “the causal direction of this relationship remains in dispute, however, with some researchers maintaining that firearm violence elevates rates of gun ownership, but not the reverse.”

There is substantial variation within and across regions and localities in a number of other realms, which complicates any attempt to find a single cause for national trends. Among the variations of interest to researchers are policing techniques, punishment policies, culture, economics and residential segregation.​

Yes.....gun ownership went through the roof.....and gun crime went down...

There are studies that support the belief that guns in private hands helped lower the crime rate....I have linked to those in earlier posts....

But the real problem for you......moron.......is that the last 21 years have shown that the basic, the fundamental argument that you guys make......is wrong.....and has no basis in reality....

You guys claim that More Guns = More Gun Crime....that is your entire argument.....

And it has been proven wrong over 21 years ........as more Americans bought and carried guns....the gun crime rates went down, not up...showing that you have nothing....your arguments are based on false premises and a lack of understanding.......

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 16.3 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...
-- gun murder down 49%

--gun crime down 75%

--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

More Guns......less crime.....you have nothing....

You are just spamming the same crap over and over again.

The source you yourself used - Pew even said that there were MANY factors involved in declining crime rates and that increased gun ownership was not necessarily causal in the rates going down.

Mobile phone ownership increased during that time. As mobile phone ownership went up - violent crime went down. Hmmm....according to your logic...it must be causal.

Yes.....you now have to run from the fact that the fundamental argument you guys make....

More Guns = More Gun Crime....

Is disproven by those 21 years of Americans buying more and more guns...and more and more Americans carrying those guns for self defense...showing for all the world to see that normal. law abiding people, owning and carrying guns does not increase the gun crime rate...at all.....and that the gun murder rate went down 49%....the gun crime rate went down 75%....and the violent crime rate went down 72%...

Which is the exact oppososite of what you anti gun extremists said would happen......

You have no argument....facts, research, and real world experience show you have no argument......you just want to ban guns because you are emotionally afraid of guns...

There is a direct correlation between the availability of guns (more guns) and increased gun crimes. I'm not emotionally afraid of guns. I have a gun. I just don't worship it and feel I need to drag it everywhere with me like a kid. It's a tool I use when my husband and I go target shooting. Otherwise, it's put away like my other tools.

And, speaking of "have no argument" - you're building a strawman. I don't want to ban guns. You make exactly the kind of argument that I was complaining about in my first post in this thread.

You present it as only two options: ban guns or no restrictions whatsoever on guns. Those are the only two positions you seem to see. Is there anything in between those extremes that you would consider reasonable?

You're delusional as ever.

Disarming Realities: As Gun Sales Soar, Gun Crimes Plummet

 

[frigidweirdo]

Why would you agree to give up your right to self defense, because some idiot murders others?

No, you don't give up your right to self defense at all.

If they have no guns and you have no guns, then you can defend yourself with what you have.

If they have guns and you have guns, then you've just got to be quicker.

Look at the stats for police officers killed in the line of duty between the UK and US.

List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia
List of American police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia

UK
2017 - one stabbed in London terror attack
2015 - one run over in police persuit
2013 - one run over by suspect

USA
2016 - 140 killed in the line of duty
2015 - 129 killed in the line of duty
2014 - 133 killed in the line of duty

The UK has a population 1/5th the size of the US, so the equivalent would be

2017 - 5
2016 - 0
2015 - 5
2014 - 0


See the difference?

These are ARMED police officers in the US. These are mostly unarmed police officers in the UK.

 

[Rustic]

Why would you agree to give up your right to self defense, because some idiot murders others?

No, you don't give up your right to self defense at all.

If they have no guns and you have no guns, then you can defend yourself with what you have.

If they have guns and you have guns, then you've just got to be quicker.

Look at the stats for police officers killed in the line of duty between the UK and US.

List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia
List of American police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia

UK
2017 - one stabbed in London terror attack
2015 - one run over in police persuit
2013 - one run over by suspect

USA
2016 - 140 killed in the line of duty
2015 - 129 killed in the line of duty
2014 - 133 killed in the line of duty

The UK has a population 1/5th the size of the US, so the equivalent would be

2017 - 5
2016 - 0
2015 - 5
2014 - 0


See the difference?

These are ARMED police officers in the US. These are mostly unarmed police officers in the UK.

More frivolous gun control laws will not save a single soul

 

[Weatherman2020]

Why would you agree to give up your right to self defense, because some idiot murders others?

No, you don't give up your right to self defense at all.

If they have no guns and you have no guns, then you can defend yourself with what you have.

If they have guns and you have guns, then you've just got to be quicker.

Look at the stats for police officers killed in the line of duty between the UK and US.

List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia
List of American police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia

UK
2017 - one stabbed in London terror attack
2015 - one run over in police persuit
2013 - one run over by suspect

USA
2016 - 140 killed in the line of duty
2015 - 129 killed in the line of duty
2014 - 133 killed in the line of duty

The UK has a population 1/5th the size of the US, so the equivalent would be

2017 - 5
2016 - 0
2015 - 5
2014 - 0


See the difference?

These are ARMED police officers in the US. These are mostly unarmed police officers in the UK.

American left are a violent species.

 

[2aguy]

Why would you agree to give up your right to self defense, because some idiot murders others?

No, you don't give up your right to self defense at all.

If they have no guns and you have no guns, then you can defend yourself with what you have.

If they have guns and you have guns, then you've just got to be quicker.

Look at the stats for police officers killed in the line of duty between the UK and US.

List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia
List of American police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia

UK
2017 - one stabbed in London terror attack
2015 - one run over in police persuit
2013 - one run over by suspect

USA
2016 - 140 killed in the line of duty
2015 - 129 killed in the line of duty
2014 - 133 killed in the line of duty

The UK has a population 1/5th the size of the US, so the equivalent would be

2017 - 5
2016 - 0
2015 - 5
2014 - 0


See the difference?

These are ARMED police officers in the US. These are mostly unarmed police officers in the UK.

Our non gun murder rates are higher than their total murder rate dumb ass....our criminals murder each other and their victims more easily and often than British criminals do.......that is changing....their social welfare system has destroyed their culture's ability to civilize their young males, and they are importing violent males from the 3rd World....the long standing respect for their police is gone...and their police are now experiencing more and more violence against them from criminals.....

 

[Weatherman2020]

Guns catch another one that could have been Obamas son.

A pair of customers legally carrying guns held a pipe-wielding attacker at bay at a York County car dealership until police arrived in a December incident where the suspect threatened to kill dealership employees, prosecutors said in court Friday.

Alonzo Seegars, upset with service at Stateline car dealership on Gold Hill Road in Fort Mill on Dec. 21, arrived armed with a pipe wrench, said Aaron Hayes, 16th Circuit assistant solicitor. Seegars told a service employee, “I know who you are and you are a dead man,” then “threatened to kill” a female employee, Hayes said.

Seegars then shouted out ‘Watch this!’ as he smashed at least three vehicles with the pipe wrench, Hayes said.

Two customers, whom prosecutors said had legal concealed carry permits and were armed legally at the time, intervened and “held Mr. Seegars at bay” with the handguns at the crowded dealership until police arrived, Hayes said. York County deputies tackled Seegars after using an electric stun gun. Seegars suffered a broken leg in the scuffle.

Keep reading…

 

[2aguy]

Why would you agree to give up your right to self defense, because some idiot murders others?

No, you don't give up your right to self defense at all.

If they have no guns and you have no guns, then you can defend yourself with what you have.

If they have guns and you have guns, then you've just got to be quicker.

Look at the stats for police officers killed in the line of duty between the UK and US.

List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia
List of American police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia

UK
2017 - one stabbed in London terror attack
2015 - one run over in police persuit
2013 - one run over by suspect

USA
2016 - 140 killed in the line of duty
2015 - 129 killed in the line of duty
2014 - 133 killed in the line of duty

The UK has a population 1/5th the size of the US, so the equivalent would be

2017 - 5
2016 - 0
2015 - 5
2014 - 0


See the difference?

These are ARMED police officers in the US. These are mostly unarmed police officers in the UK.

Liar......you hid the causes of death of U.S. officers...

3 Police officers were beaten to death...that is 3X the number of officers killed in Britain according to you own post.......moron....



http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/reports/Preliminary-2016-EOY-Officer-Fatalities-Report.pdf

Fifty-three officers were killed in traffic-related incidents in 2016, which was 10 percent more than the 48 killed on roadways in 2015. Of the 53 traffic-related deaths, 28 died in automobile crashes, 15 were struck and killed while outside of their vehicle, and 10 were killed in motorcycle crashes. Prior to 2016, traffic-related incidents have been the number one cause of officer fatalities in 15 of the last 20 years. Eighteen officers died from other causes in 2016, including 11 who died from job-related illnesses— mostly heart attacks—while performing their duties. Other causes included beatings (3), a drowning, a fall, an aircraft crash and a stabbing.


Firearms-related fatalities spiked in 2016, with 64 officers killed, up 56 percent from 41 in 2015.

---

In 2016, fifty-three officers died as a result of trafficrelated incidents, a 10 percent increase from the 48 traffic-related deaths last year.

------

Eighteen officers died from other causes in 2016, including 11 who died from job-related illnesses—mostly heart attacks—while performing their duties.

Also included among that number are two officers who died of an illness contracted as a result of rescue and recovery work following the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Also, three officers were beaten to death, one officer died from a fall, one officer drowned, one officer was stabbed, and one officer died in an aircraft crash.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Why would you agree to give up your right to self defense, because some idiot murders others?

No, you don't give up your right to self defense at all.

If they have no guns and you have no guns, then you can defend yourself with what you have.

If they have guns and you have guns, then you've just got to be quicker.

Look at the stats for police officers killed in the line of duty between the UK and US.

List of British police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia
List of American police officers killed in the line of duty - Wikipedia

UK
2017 - one stabbed in London terror attack
2015 - one run over in police persuit
2013 - one run over by suspect

USA
2016 - 140 killed in the line of duty
2015 - 129 killed in the line of duty
2014 - 133 killed in the line of duty

The UK has a population 1/5th the size of the US, so the equivalent would be

2017 - 5
2016 - 0
2015 - 5
2014 - 0


See the difference?

These are ARMED police officers in the US. These are mostly unarmed police officers in the UK.

Liar......you hid the causes of death of U.S. officers...



http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/reports/Preliminary-2016-EOY-Officer-Fatalities-Report.pdf

Fifty-three officers were killed in traffic-related incidents in 2016, which was 10 percent more than the 48 killed on roadways in 2015. Of the 53 traffic-related deaths, 28 died in automobile crashes, 15 were struck and killed while outside of their vehicle, and 10 were killed in motorcycle crashes. Prior to 2016, traffic-related incidents have been the number one cause of officer fatalities in 15 of the last 20 years. Eighteen officers died from other causes in 2016, including 11 who died from job-related illnesses— mostly heart attacks—while performing their duties. Other causes included beatings (3), a drowning, a fall, an aircraft crash and a stabbing.

Ban cars!