More guns keeping us safe.......

[Ernie S.]

OK let's do a comparrison between what happens in places with the least and the most restricted gun laws.
Vermont: Essentially no restrictions whatsoever as to ownership, magazine capacity or open or concealed carry.

In Vermont, 420 people died from gunshot wounds between the beginning of 2011 and the end of 2016.

In Morrisville, a 21-year-old man killed himself in his family’s apartment in 2012. A year and a day later, his mother did the same thing.

In Windsor, a 98-year-old World War II veteran killed himself in the middle of September 2013.

At a few minutes before 11 p.m. in Newbury one night last December, an 80-year-old bus driver shot and killed his wife and then himself. Her death certificate says “married.” His says “widowed.
Gunshots: Vermont Gun Deaths, 2011-2016

You post an opinion poll to contradict real numbers? This shit is comical. The left should be well over believing opinion polls by now, or is HRC actually POTUS and I've been living in a dream for 2 1/2 years?

I posted using the real numbers from a report that is used as the basis for all you rightwinggunnutters put out by Kleck. That report has been used as the basis for almost all opinions since it was first published. And those numbers are so outrageous that it's beyond anyone wildest imagination. Your whole cult has been based on a lie. It's right up there with the Flat Earthers and the Fake Moon Landers.

You posted an opinion poll using 150 selected "experts". Using your methods, I'm certain I could show poll results "proving" Elvis is alive and living in Tupelo.

 

[westwall]

Clayton has based his argument on discredited studies. 2aguy has not. Sorry, I'm going with the facts. Do we know for sure? Nope. We just base our opinions on solid data collected in an unbiased manner. In my opinion, Clayton is a tool. It always has been and now that has been reconfirmed

2boy uses Kleck as his source as does almost every other gunnutter article that has ever been written about this subject. Kleck has already been proven unreliable. In fact, he's already been proven to be a liar or, at best, a fabricator of data. Just because it agrees with what your personnally believe doesn't make it any more real. 2boy still clings to that false information. The fact remains, no study has EVER been done that shows, on way or another, that more or less guns make any difference in the prevention of crime rate. You are stating a personal opinion. I can accept that. 2boy claims he is stating a scientific fact but it's based on false data. If your personal opinion is based on 2boys opinion, guess what, you would be incorrect. If that were the case, the Earth is flat and the Moon Landing was a Hoax.

Kleck has not been proven unreliable. Provide a link that does.

Here we go again. Enjoy the ride. 2boy brings this crap up about once every few months hoping everyone will forget.

The Contradictions of the Kleck Study

https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1264/2014/05/Expert-Survey2-Results.pdf

That should be enough.

A Normal Sillyvillian is more likely to give his gun to a criminal as a gift rather than use it to deter the crime in the first place. Yah, I know, we all think we are all Rambos but truth be told, it's a friggin movie. Almost 500K of guns in the home for home defense are stolen in a 5 year period by criminals. Many of those break in artists didn't have a gun before the break in. But thanks to the thoughtful home owner, they are after the break in. If you bother to read the URLs you will find that Klecks math is so outrageous that in that 5 year period, about 2.3 million defensive gun duels happened. That would be over 1260 per day in the US. If that doesn't at least prick your ears a little. That's not a problem, that's an epidemic. In a matter of a month, we would run out of criminals and have to import them to fill the void. Other countries would start complaining because we would be draining their supply of criminals. The Crossfire would be dropping innocent bystanders by the droves. I don't know about you but I doubt you could pay me enough to deliver for UPS. Just the travel time from the truck to the front door would mean having to shoot at least 2 bad guys dead and then bag 2 on the way back. That would be a tough 20 feet. Going grocery shopping would be a new adventure.

Your Hero is a nutcase.

Are you retarded? The "study " you link to is an OPINION poll, of 150 people!

You really need to do better, dude.

Do you mean that Klecks claim that over 2.3 million defensive gun incidences happened in a 5 year period actually happened? That there is over 1000 of them happening daily? That means that there are 4 times the number of armed and ready defensive shooters than criminals out there. Are they authorities now giving hunting licenses with game tags for criminals to civilians these days and I wasn't notified? Is my neighborhood the only place that it's safe to go outside without being hit by a stray bullet from all these "Rexall Rangers"? Your Hero, Kleck, just doesn't add up. When the jokers are thrown out on both sides, the real fact remains, there has been ZERO studies done that conclusively proves that more guns (or fewer) has any affect on the rate of gun violence. And we all would have to be retarded to believe otherwise.

He actually did this thing called RESEARCH, you know where you actually interview people, and set up various metrics and statistical methodology. Not a fucking opinion poll you moron!

And yes, I do believe his numbers. Society was MORE violent back then. Imagine, more guns have come into society and crime overall has dropped.

Hmm, maybe he was on to something.

 

[westwall]

33,000 a year

Any other nation with that carnage would be outraged and demand action

Japan has a highe suicide rate and they don't use guns and I see no outrage.

Let Japan take care of their own problems

When 20,000 Americans start killing themselves by falling down stairs, we can start making stairs safer

People have the right to choose whether they live or die

Guns do not cause suicides anymore than they cause crime

If I choose suicide by an overdose, I have over an hour to change my mind
If I chose a gun, I have a split second to change my mind

And, if you jump off a building, you have NO time to change your mind.

Or, worse yet if you decide to drive your car into another one, or in the case of that asshole pilot who flew his airliner into the ground killing all of those innocent people. Isn't it interesting how people who wish to commit suicide seem to actually WANT to do it.

 

[Ernie S.]

You post an opinion poll to contradict real numbers? This shit is comical. The left should be well over believing opinion polls by now, or is HRC actually POTUS and I've been living in a dream for 2 1/2 years?

I posted using the real numbers from a report that is used as the basis for all you rightwinggunnutters put out by Kleck. That report has been used as the basis for almost all opinions since it was first published. And those numbers are so outrageous that it's beyond anyone wildest imagination. Your whole cult has been based on a lie. It's right up there with the Flat Earthers and the Fake Moon Landers.

AN OPINION POLL USING 150 HAND PICKED "EXPERTS".

 

[Ernie S.]

My collection includes bolt actions, pumps and an over and under along with side by sides, semi automatics, muzzle loading, revolvers and a single shot coach gun.
I don't own a single 30 round magazine, but I do own about 5,000 rounds of ammo and somewhere north of a dozen firearms. I have never taken a life, though I have defended my wife against a rape and myself (twice) and an employee from robbery and assault with a very large knife. Unlike you, I know what I'm talking about and will protect my rights, my life and the lives I am obligated to protect using any means necessary.

 

[Ernie S.]

33,000 a year

Any other nation with that carnage would be outraged and demand action

Japan has a highe suicide rate and they don't use guns and I see no outrage.

Let Japan take care of their own problems

When 20,000 Americans start killing themselves by falling down stairs, we can start making stairs safer

People have the right to choose whether they live or die

Guns do not cause suicides anymore than they cause crime

If I choose suicide by an overdose, I have over an hour to change my mind
If I chose a gun, I have a split second to change my mind

And, if you jump off a building, you have NO time to change your mind.

well, you do have several seconds to change your mind, not that you can change the outcome...

 

[Daryl Hunt]

OK let's do a comparrison between what happens in places with the least and the most restricted gun laws.
Vermont: Essentially no restrictions whatsoever as to ownership, magazine capacity or open or concealed carry.

In Vermont, 420 people died from gunshot wounds between the beginning of 2011 and the end of 2016.

In Morrisville, a 21-year-old man killed himself in his family’s apartment in 2012. A year and a day later, his mother did the same thing.

In Windsor, a 98-year-old World War II veteran killed himself in the middle of September 2013.

At a few minutes before 11 p.m. in Newbury one night last December, an 80-year-old bus driver shot and killed his wife and then himself. Her death certificate says “married.” His says “widowed.
Gunshots: Vermont Gun Deaths, 2011-2016

You post an opinion poll to contradict real numbers? This shit is comical. The left should be well over believing opinion polls by now, or is HRC actually POTUS and I've been living in a dream for 2 1/2 years?

I posted using the real numbers from a report that is used as the basis for all you rightwinggunnutters put out by Kleck. That report has been used as the basis for almost all opinions since it was first published. And those numbers are so outrageous that it's beyond anyone wildest imagination. Your whole cult has been based on a lie. It's right up there with the Flat Earthers and the Fake Moon Landers.

You posted an opinion poll using 150 selected "experts". Using your methods, I'm certain I could show poll results "proving" Elvis is alive and living in Tupelo.

You really didn't make a point on this one. You are just throwing bull crap into the ball game. Feel better now? You still haven't proven that more guns prevent gun crimes.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Japan has a highe suicide rate and they don't use guns and I see no outrage.

Let Japan take care of their own problems

When 20,000 Americans start killing themselves by falling down stairs, we can start making stairs safer

People have the right to choose whether they live or die

Guns do not cause suicides anymore than they cause crime

If I choose suicide by an overdose, I have over an hour to change my mind
If I chose a gun, I have a split second to change my mind

And, if you jump off a building, you have NO time to change your mind.

well, you do have several seconds to change your mind, not that you can change the outcome...

Floor number 2, "So far so Good".

 

[Silver Blooded]

If guns made you safer the whole world would have them.
They don't make you safer, they make you more likely to get shot.

Only cretins would argue otherwise.

Yes! Yes! Hitler only disarmed the people he wanted to eliminated! As did your Progressive Founding Fathers Mao and Stalin!

You're sooooooooooooooooooooooooo smart!

GODWIN!

You know, that's not actually what Godwin's Law is about... Then again, I wouldn't expect a liberal to be educated on things they're referencing. Here: Godwin's law - Wikipedia Get educated.

 

[Silver Blooded]

Another thread full of arguments for taking guns away.

Liberals just love getting fucked in the ass. Whether it's by men, by corporations, or by their government. That's right, keep bending over and letting other take you. I'm sure it'll work out well in the end for you.

 

[2aguy]

You post an opinion poll to contradict real numbers? This shit is comical. The left should be well over believing opinion polls by now, or is HRC actually POTUS and I've been living in a dream for 2 1/2 years?

I posted using the real numbers from a report that is used as the basis for all you rightwinggunnutters put out by Kleck. That report has been used as the basis for almost all opinions since it was first published. And those numbers are so outrageous that it's beyond anyone wildest imagination. Your whole cult has been based on a lie. It's right up there with the Flat Earthers and the Fake Moon Landers.

Kleck, the anti-gun researcher has one of the most in depth studies out there, and the anti-gunners have never been able to refute it........and since I keep using the Number from the Centers For Disease Control, you are the one using Kleck.......

The Centers for Disease Control puts the number at 1.1 million....the Department of Justice research puts the number at 1.5 million.....which one of those is spelled "Kleck?"

And notice how many studies on this topic have actually been done.......and notice that Kleck is one of 17.........And you are the only one in this thread that brought Kleck into it......

Kleck's work is the definitive work, the one who put the anti-gunners into a hissy fit and why they ordered the CDC and the DOJ to do their own gun research...which came up with 1.1 million and 1.5 million defensive gun uses.....on top of all the other research...

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....

The name of the group doing the study, the year of the study, the number of defensive gun uses and if police and military defensive gun uses are included.....notice the bill clinton and obama defensive gun use research is highlighted.....

GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, no military)

DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, no military)

L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, no military)

Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, no military)

CDC...1996-1998... 1.1 million averaged over those years.( no cops, no military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, no military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, no military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops,no military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, no military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million ( the bill clinton study)

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."

(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, no military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..

 

[2aguy]

You post an opinion poll to contradict real numbers? This shit is comical. The left should be well over believing opinion polls by now, or is HRC actually POTUS and I've been living in a dream for 2 1/2 years?

I posted using the real numbers from a report that is used as the basis for all you rightwinggunnutters put out by Kleck. That report has been used as the basis for almost all opinions since it was first published. And those numbers are so outrageous that it's beyond anyone wildest imagination. Your whole cult has been based on a lie. It's right up there with the Flat Earthers and the Fake Moon Landers.

No, moron...the link you gave was an anti-gun opinion poll.......Kleck and the other 17 other studies actually did research...

 

[Ernie S.]

True. I didn't finish that post and had no intention of posting it, but if you compare a state with nearly zero restrictions on 2nd amendment rights to say New Jersey, at the other end of the spectrum and then compare Burlington(population 42,300) to Camden (population 74,500). Burlington's murder rate is .02/1000 and Camden's is 6.3/1000.
You are 315 times more likely to be a murder victim in Camden.
Why do you suppose this is? Is it that in Vermont, you never quite know who is armed and who is not?Or is it that in New Jersey, you can reasonably expect that your potential crime victim is un armed.
Or, does it have more to do with demographics? What do you suppose you will find if you take a look at the populations of each city?

 

[Daryl Hunt]

True. I didn't finish that post and had no intention of posting it, but if you compare a state with nearly zero restrictions on 2nd amendment rights to say New Jersey, at the other end of the spectrum and then compare Burlington(population 42,300) to Camden (population 74,500). Burlington's murder rate is .02/1000 and Camden's is 6.3/1000.
You are 315 times more likely to be a murder victim in Camden.
Why do you suppose this is? Is it that in Vermont, you never quite know who is armed and who is not?Or is it that in New Jersey, you can reasonably expect that your potential crime victim is un armed.
Or, does it have more to do with demographics? What do you suppose you will find if you take a look at the populations of each city?

If you leave out the fact that the population density of New Jersey is at least a few hundred times as dense as Vermont then you can come up with any figure you wish to dream up. Vermont is primarily a Rural community while New Jersey is primarily an Urban Community. Why don't you do something even sillier and compare Wyoming with D.C while you are at it. Rustbucket and I already pretty well established that the Rural and Urban areas are quite different and the rules and environments are also quite different. Camden is part of an Urban area. Burlington is one of the largest towns in Vermont which is part of a Rural area.

Or how about little old Wheat Ridge Colorado, population 31,600. Compare that to Larimer, Wyoming, 30,316. Sounds about fair. One huge problem. Wheat Ridge is a suburb or Denver while Larimer is a small town in rural Wyoming. Wheat Ridge gets the overflow of crime from the greater Denver area while Larimer has it's own small town petty crime rate. You can play this game all day long.

You still have yet to prove a thing except small town USA has less crime because it has less people. Rural really isn't any safer either. The Per Capita for being murdered is about the same overall. It's just when you visit there, since there are fewer people and fewer murders you have a less of a percentage chance of being murdered. I know you won't understand this law of averages because it would destroy your little mind set so I won't go any further into it.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

2boy uses Kleck as his source as does almost every other gunnutter article that has ever been written about this subject. Kleck has already been proven unreliable. In fact, he's already been proven to be a liar or, at best, a fabricator of data. Just because it agrees with what your personnally believe doesn't make it any more real. 2boy still clings to that false information. The fact remains, no study has EVER been done that shows, on way or another, that more or less guns make any difference in the prevention of crime rate. You are stating a personal opinion. I can accept that. 2boy claims he is stating a scientific fact but it's based on false data. If your personal opinion is based on 2boys opinion, guess what, you would be incorrect. If that were the case, the Earth is flat and the Moon Landing was a Hoax.

Kleck has not been proven unreliable. Provide a link that does.

Here we go again. Enjoy the ride. 2boy brings this crap up about once every few months hoping everyone will forget.

The Contradictions of the Kleck Study

https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1264/2014/05/Expert-Survey2-Results.pdf

That should be enough.

A Normal Sillyvillian is more likely to give his gun to a criminal as a gift rather than use it to deter the crime in the first place. Yah, I know, we all think we are all Rambos but truth be told, it's a friggin movie. Almost 500K of guns in the home for home defense are stolen in a 5 year period by criminals. Many of those break in artists didn't have a gun before the break in. But thanks to the thoughtful home owner, they are after the break in. If you bother to read the URLs you will find that Klecks math is so outrageous that in that 5 year period, about 2.3 million defensive gun duels happened. That would be over 1260 per day in the US. If that doesn't at least prick your ears a little. That's not a problem, that's an epidemic. In a matter of a month, we would run out of criminals and have to import them to fill the void. Other countries would start complaining because we would be draining their supply of criminals. The Crossfire would be dropping innocent bystanders by the droves. I don't know about you but I doubt you could pay me enough to deliver for UPS. Just the travel time from the truck to the front door would mean having to shoot at least 2 bad guys dead and then bag 2 on the way back. That would be a tough 20 feet. Going grocery shopping would be a new adventure.

Your Hero is a nutcase.

Are you retarded? The "study " you link to is an OPINION poll, of 150 people!

You really need to do better, dude.

Do you mean that Klecks claim that over 2.3 million defensive gun incidences happened in a 5 year period actually happened? That there is over 1000 of them happening daily? That means that there are 4 times the number of armed and ready defensive shooters than criminals out there. Are they authorities now giving hunting licenses with game tags for criminals to civilians these days and I wasn't notified? Is my neighborhood the only place that it's safe to go outside without being hit by a stray bullet from all these "Rexall Rangers"? Your Hero, Kleck, just doesn't add up. When the jokers are thrown out on both sides, the real fact remains, there has been ZERO studies done that conclusively proves that more guns (or fewer) has any affect on the rate of gun violence. And we all would have to be retarded to believe otherwise.

He actually did this thing called RESEARCH, you know where you actually interview people, and set up various metrics and statistical methodology. Not a fucking opinion poll you moron!

And yes, I do believe his numbers. Society was MORE violent back then. Imagine, more guns have come into society and crime overall has dropped.

Hmm, maybe he was on to something.

Kleck really didn't do any research. He's like the Archeologist that writes a book, becomes the leading expert and never leaves his office. He reads up on every other Archeologists that wrote research papers that went into the field. His claim to fame was a bogus research grant to interpret a CDC research that didn't say what he claimed it said. I read the same report and came to the same conclusion that others did. Kleck took the totals of ALL the use of deadly force and used it as the sum for defensive gun prevention. That included Cops and Military Actions. Yes, even combat. That's what made his numbers so high. Well beyond imagination. Think of this, if we really had 1700 defensive shootings per day wouldn't that prompt some kind of action to prevent that from happening years ago? Wouldn't we have heard about that in the news? Hell, that would be big news. When you use his 5 year figure it doesn't sound so bad but when you break down to a daily figure it sounds outrageous which it is. Kleck is a nutcase who started out with a conclusion and manipulated the data to come up with that conclusion. That's just bad science.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

You post an opinion poll to contradict real numbers? This shit is comical. The left should be well over believing opinion polls by now, or is HRC actually POTUS and I've been living in a dream for 2 1/2 years?

I posted using the real numbers from a report that is used as the basis for all you rightwinggunnutters put out by Kleck. That report has been used as the basis for almost all opinions since it was first published. And those numbers are so outrageous that it's beyond anyone wildest imagination. Your whole cult has been based on a lie. It's right up there with the Flat Earthers and the Fake Moon Landers.

AN OPINION POLL USING 150 HAND PICKED "EXPERTS".

I can see you never read his "Report". And have no idea what it was based on. Sad, sort of like the Mueller Report you haven't read either.

 

[2aguy]

Kleck has not been proven unreliable. Provide a link that does.

Here we go again. Enjoy the ride. 2boy brings this crap up about once every few months hoping everyone will forget.

The Contradictions of the Kleck Study

https://cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/1264/2014/05/Expert-Survey2-Results.pdf

That should be enough.

A Normal Sillyvillian is more likely to give his gun to a criminal as a gift rather than use it to deter the crime in the first place. Yah, I know, we all think we are all Rambos but truth be told, it's a friggin movie. Almost 500K of guns in the home for home defense are stolen in a 5 year period by criminals. Many of those break in artists didn't have a gun before the break in. But thanks to the thoughtful home owner, they are after the break in. If you bother to read the URLs you will find that Klecks math is so outrageous that in that 5 year period, about 2.3 million defensive gun duels happened. That would be over 1260 per day in the US. If that doesn't at least prick your ears a little. That's not a problem, that's an epidemic. In a matter of a month, we would run out of criminals and have to import them to fill the void. Other countries would start complaining because we would be draining their supply of criminals. The Crossfire would be dropping innocent bystanders by the droves. I don't know about you but I doubt you could pay me enough to deliver for UPS. Just the travel time from the truck to the front door would mean having to shoot at least 2 bad guys dead and then bag 2 on the way back. That would be a tough 20 feet. Going grocery shopping would be a new adventure.

Your Hero is a nutcase.

Are you retarded? The "study " you link to is an OPINION poll, of 150 people!

You really need to do better, dude.

Do you mean that Klecks claim that over 2.3 million defensive gun incidences happened in a 5 year period actually happened? That there is over 1000 of them happening daily? That means that there are 4 times the number of armed and ready defensive shooters than criminals out there. Are they authorities now giving hunting licenses with game tags for criminals to civilians these days and I wasn't notified? Is my neighborhood the only place that it's safe to go outside without being hit by a stray bullet from all these "Rexall Rangers"? Your Hero, Kleck, just doesn't add up. When the jokers are thrown out on both sides, the real fact remains, there has been ZERO studies done that conclusively proves that more guns (or fewer) has any affect on the rate of gun violence. And we all would have to be retarded to believe otherwise.

He actually did this thing called RESEARCH, you know where you actually interview people, and set up various metrics and statistical methodology. Not a fucking opinion poll you moron!

And yes, I do believe his numbers. Society was MORE violent back then. Imagine, more guns have come into society and crime overall has dropped.

Hmm, maybe he was on to something.

Kleck really didn't do any research. He's like the Archeologist that writes a book, becomes the leading expert and never leaves his office. He reads up on every other Archeologists that wrote research papers that went into the field. His claim to fame was a bogus research grant to interpret a CDC research that didn't say what he claimed it said. I read the same report and came to the same conclusion that others did. Kleck took the totals of ALL the use of deadly force and used it as the sum for defensive gun prevention. That included Cops and Military Actions. Yes, even combat. That's what made his numbers so high. Well beyond imagination. Think of this, if we really had 1700 defensive shootings per day wouldn't that prompt some kind of action to prevent that from happening years ago? Wouldn't we have heard about that in the news? Hell, that would be big news. When you use his 5 year figure it doesn't sound so bad but when you break down to a daily figure it sounds outrageous which it is. Kleck is a nutcase who started out with a conclusion and manipulated the data to come up with that conclusion. That's just bad science.

You talk out of your ass, and then stand there like we should be amazed....

You don't know what Kleck did, you don't know that the military and police were excluded......you just spew and spew and sit there with a dumb look on your face....

 

[hunarcy]

Japan has a highe suicide rate and they don't use guns and I see no outrage.

Let Japan take care of their own problems

When 20,000 Americans start killing themselves by falling down stairs, we can start making stairs safer

People have the right to choose whether they live or die

Guns do not cause suicides anymore than they cause crime

If I choose suicide by an overdose, I have over an hour to change my mind
If I chose a gun, I have a split second to change my mind

And, if you jump off a building, you have NO time to change your mind.

Or, worse yet if you decide to drive your car into another one, or in the case of that asshole pilot who flew his airliner into the ground killing all of those innocent people. Isn't it interesting how people who wish to commit suicide seem to actually WANT to do it.

What is funny is that there are SO many ways to kill yourself but only one is demonized.

 

[Rigby5]

If guns made you safer the whole world would have them.
They don't make you safer, they make you more likely to get shot.

Only cretins would argue otherwise.

That is silly because the whole world does have guns.
The only places that limit guns to the government, are ex-monarchies that really are still monarchies.

If guns did not make you safer and instead make you more likely to get shot, then we would disarm the police and military.
But clearly we not only have not disarmed the police or military, the police and military are the biggest threat we face, so their arms require all responsible citizens to be armed, so that we can maintain a democratic republic.

Gun control is fine if you do not care if we have a democratic republic or not, and don't care about crime.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

Let Japan take care of their own problems

When 20,000 Americans start killing themselves by falling down stairs, we can start making stairs safer

People have the right to choose whether they live or die

Guns do not cause suicides anymore than they cause crime

If I choose suicide by an overdose, I have over an hour to change my mind
If I chose a gun, I have a split second to change my mind

And, if you jump off a building, you have NO time to change your mind.

Or, worse yet if you decide to drive your car into another one, or in the case of that asshole pilot who flew his airliner into the ground killing all of those innocent people. Isn't it interesting how people who wish to commit suicide seem to actually WANT to do it.

What is funny is that there are SO many ways to kill yourself but only one is demonized.

Only one is almost 100% successful every time and almost 100% irreversible and the easiest access. But if that were the only factor involved with guns it would be a non issue.