Mosque shooting in New Zealand

[Missourian]

Again, you're lying. The nation had lax gun control laws.

What are New Zealand's gun laws?

And the shooter, published a "Replacement" manifesto, and cited that he believes in Trump's white nationalism. This man is a self-admitted right wing terrorist.

This attack is similar to the attack in Norway, and the American Coast Guard operative who was amassing a weapons cache to launch a similar attack in the US. This is the planned attack by right wing terrorists.

New Zealand has every gun law US gun controllers claim to want.

 

[Missourian]

"NZ freak wants his murders to inspire American leftists to try to disarm Americans and spark civil conflict. American leftists immediately get inspired to try to disarm Americans and attack religion at the same time. Sheesh."

"NZ freak wants his murders to inspire American leftists to try to disarm Americans and spark civil conflict."

I saw the same. And as you can clearly see, we are playing right into his hands.

 

[22lcidw]

Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.

Yeah, sure... you tell yourself that.

Thing is, the Bad guy with a gun has a plan, and he has gotten his shots off before anyone can react....

Actual attacks show you don't know what you are talking about.....

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

So lots of guns and weak laws equals lots of mass shootings and rarely an armed citizen stops shooter after people are dead. Or we could have strong laws and rarely have mass shootings. Easy choice...

We don't trust you anymore.

 

[Missourian]

"NZ freak wants his murders to inspire American leftists to try to disarm Americans and spark civil conflict. American leftists immediately get inspired to try to disarm Americans and attack religion at the same time. Sheesh."

P.S. -this deserves it's own thread. You should start it.

 

[basquebromance]

"NZ freak wants his murders to inspire American leftists to try to disarm Americans and spark civil conflict. American leftists immediately get inspired to try to disarm Americans and attack religion at the same time. Sheesh."

P.S. -this deserves it's own thread. You should start it.

i'm busy watching soccer

 

[RealDave]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Never happens... I guess the whole world must be a gun free zone, since a mass shooter has never been stopped by a good guy with a gun before he got started.

Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.

links?

Here....

Keep in mind almost all mass public shootings take place in government mandated gun free zones for law abiding citizens...so they don't have their legal guns with them most of the time....but when they do?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

How many armed people stood outside at Parkland.

Your statistics are bullshit.

Mass shootings at bars, churches/mosques, businesses.

 

[basquebromance]

"NZ freak wants his murders to inspire American leftists to try to disarm Americans and spark civil conflict. American leftists immediately get inspired to try to disarm Americans and attack religion at the same time. Sheesh."

P.S. -this deserves it's own thread. You should start it.

i'm busy watching soccer

i'm sure Trump will tweet about it. don't worry!

 

[Missourian]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Never happens... I guess the whole world must be a gun free zone, since a mass shooter has never been stopped by a good guy with a gun before he got started.

Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.

links?

Here....

Keep in mind almost all mass public shootings take place in government mandated gun free zones for law abiding citizens...so they don't have their legal guns with them most of the time....but when they do?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

How many armed people stood outside at Parkland.

Your statistics are bullshit.

Mass shootings at bars, churches/mosques, businesses.

I've read that in the live feed, a worshipper tackled the shoot and got one of his guns away from him...almost stopping him without a gun.

Later, he was driven off by a worshipper with a shotgun.

 

[RealDave]

We try to keep crazy people from driving cars. Keeping them from shooting up a church, mosque, synagogue ,school, mall, movie theaters, etc. is extremely difficult thanks to the gun/criminal lobby. Shooters will always have their rights but a classroom full of second graders...not so much.

New Zealand has every gun control measure you guys want...did it help?

We have walls on our border & yet illegals still cross. Walls are failures. I get it.

 

[Synthaholic]

Apparently, gun control doesn't work in New Zealand......they have had a mass public shooting against two Mosques. The shooter....who had a gun.......may have killed 49 people....... but this isn't possible, because they have gun control in New Zealand...so initial reports are likely wrong....

And, of course, the sites were gun free zones....right?

And before the anti-gunners start......I used to wait to comment on these attacks....until the anti-gunners would be the first on the scene, walking through the blood, dragging the bodies to the nearest camera calling for taking guns away from the very people who could have stopped the attack...

Christchurch shooting: 49 dead in terror attack at two mosques – live updates

• Forty-nine people have been killed in shootings at two mosques in the New Zealand city of Christchurch. They included 41 people killed at the Deans Avenue mosque and seven at Linwood mosque. Another victim died later in Christchurch hospital.

YOU WINGNUTS ARE SO FUCKING STUPID! 2aguy must be your thought leader.

The police have described the gunman as a man in his late 20s and officials have said he was an Australian citizen, which has led to comparisons between gun laws in that country and in New Zealand.

While New Zealand’s laws governing the purchase of semiautomatic rifles are more restrictive than those in the United States, the country is much freer with firearms than Australia is, allowing most guns to be purchased without requiring them to be tracked.

“New Zealand is almost alone with the United States in not registering 96 percent of its firearms — and those are its most common firearms, the ones most used in crimes,” said Philip Alpers of GunPolicy.org, a clearinghouse for gun law data worldwide. “There are huge gaps in New Zealand law, even if some of its laws are strong.”

New Zealand’s Gun Laws Draw Scrutiny After Mosque Shootings

 

[basquebromance]

I believe we are all created in the image of God. He cares about every single soul. I believe good will ultimately triumph over evil, and until that happens we each have the responsibility to fight it at every turn. Psalm 34:18

 

[RealDave]

The terrorist had published a manifesto and the manifesto includes the claim from the terrorist shooter that he’s not a conservative, that he’s not a Christian,

He identifies as an eco-fascist, and he adds that he disagrees with Trump on politics. In addition to all of the emotion you have over the sheer shock, terror, and horror of it all, then you realize you’re going to face a whole day of the politicization of it

You realize you’re going to face a whole day of Donald Trump being blamed for it, or you being blamed for it, or things you believe in being blamed for it.

Described Trump:"a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose".

Thank you Trump fo inspiring more violence.

 

[Synthaholic]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Fucking idiot. You post a thread without having a fucking clue what you’re talking about.

New Zealand’s Gun Laws Draw Scrutiny After Mosque Shootings

 

[Synthaholic]

And, of course, the sites were gun free zones....right?

Wrong, idiot.

 

[Missourian]

YOU WINGNUTS ARE SO FUCKING STUPID!

2aguy must be your thought leader.

The police have described the gunman as a man in his late 20s and officials have said he was an Australian citizen, which has led to comparisons between gun laws in that country and in New Zealand.

While New Zealand’s laws governing the purchase of semiautomatic rifles are more restrictive than those in the United States, the country is much freer with firearms than Australia is, allowing most guns to be purchased without requiring them to be tracked.

“New Zealand is almost alone with the United States in not registering 96 percent of its firearms — and those are its most common firearms, the ones most used in crimes,” said Philip Alpers of GunPolicy.org, a clearinghouse for gun law data worldwide. “There are huge gaps in New Zealand law, even if some of its laws are strong.”

New Zealand’s Gun Laws Draw Scrutiny After Mosque Shootings

Universal background check...yes

Every gun owner licensed...yes

High capacity magazines banned...yes

Assault weapon ban...no BUT...

Special license specific to military style rifles...YES

Almost everything the gun controllers want in the USA.



-------

How the fuck would a firearm registration stop a mass shooting?!?!?!

 

[flacaltenn]

We need to stop white terrorism

We need to stop all terrorism......eco-fascism is just one of the many violent belief systems the left wing uses to justify violence against other people...

THere was specifically NO ordinary political association of any kind, left or right, in the Manifesto.. And hardly a mention of any other "eco" gripes other than "fertility rates"... Which makes him a White nationalist more than leftist eco warrior...

 

[Marion Morrison]

That guy was a sick puppy. Too bad the peaceful Mosque-goers weren't allowed to be armed to defend themselves.

 

[flacaltenn]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Fucking idiot. You post a thread without having a fucking clue what you’re talking about.

New Zealand’s Gun Laws Draw Scrutiny After Mosque Shootings

NYTImes bullshit. Calling on ONE SIDE to analyze NZ gun laws.... The arguments are that 96% of guns "aren't registered"... But by the gun-grabbers own words -- EVERY OWNER IS LICENSED... So it's the INDIVIDUAL that kills, not the gun..

Lies by omission.. Trademark of our current fake news....

 

[harmonica]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Never happens... I guess the whole world must be a gun free zone, since a mass shooter has never been stopped by a good guy with a gun before he got started.

Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.

links?

Here....

Keep in mind almost all mass public shootings take place in government mandated gun free zones for law abiding citizens...so they don't have their legal guns with them most of the time....but when they do?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

1. the US has the highest gun ownership rates in the WORLD!!
we HAVE more guns than anyone else
Which countries rank high in private gun ownership? After the top spot, you may be surprised | CBC News
2. Active shooter event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahaha--283--hahahhahahahahhaah
...94%!!!
you want people carrying EVERYWHERE??!!!
a lot of people don't WANT to carry
?????
WTF???WTF do you want??
there are over 11,000 murders per year
....then we have robberies/rapes/etc --your stats are ridiculous--what are you trying to say??!!
3. Concealed Carry.com--they are really unbiased !! hahahahahahhaha
4. how come cops get killed/shot going on a warrant--ready for action--yet they have guns ready for action?

you have not even have had a fairly decent argument ever
...for pro-gun arguments, you bring up countries that have a murder rate many times lower than the US...........???
etc

 

[JGalt]

Is trump being fair to the New Zealand terrorists after they praise him?

Trump condemns New Zealand mosque attack as 'horrible massacre' | Reuters

The accused gunman's manifesto praised Trump as "a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose."

.........

Didn’t seem fair to me. You know how Trump likes praise. And they’re just praising Trump’s words and actions. So why would he condemn them. After all it was Muslims they killed, right?
Doesn’t Trump hate Muslims the most? Except for the ones that give him money?

How about paying attention to context for a change? The shooter mentioned Trump only one time in his manifesto:

"Were/are you a supporter of Donald Trump?

As a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose? Sure. As a policy maker and leader? Dear god no.."

There is absolutely nothing wrong with President Trump being a symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose. That's why we elected him in the first place.

But I disagree with the "a policy maker and leader" part. President Trump is an excellent policy maker and leader.

Rump doesn't have any policies, maybe you're too cult-hypnotized to notice.

"Pro-Iraq war" becomes "anti-Iraq war"; "pro-Hillary" becomes "anti-Hillary"; "pro-choice" becomes "anti-choice"; "pulling out of Syria" becomes "not pulling out of Syria"; "would be Russia" becomes "wouldn't be Russia", "Tim Apple" becomes "Tim Cook Apple", etc etc etc. He's a rhetorical WHORE who will say or do anything that polishes Numero Uno's knob in the moment, and then he'll turn right around and do the opposite because the audience changed.

The wanker has no ideology at all beyond "ME ME ME"' and manipulating the racists and the bigots and the Tiki Torchers Dukeys and the "very fine people". His entire schtick is about "renewed white identity", which is more than a little ironic for a fuckbag so ashamed of his own skin that he paints it orange.

You are so wrong and don't even know it. How long after Obama's foreign policies gave rise to ISIS, did they terrorize Iraq, Syria, and other Middle Eastern countries? Quite a while, if you remember. It seemed like there was a new ISIS video every other day, depicting the brutal and savage murders of innocent people.

Now juxtapose that long period of time with the short amount of time it took President Trump to virtually eliminate ISIS from the Middle East, which was less than two years total.

How about sitting down and negotiating with North Korea? Coaxing them to stop their testing of nuclear weapons and firing missiles over our allies' airspace? Just how "successful" was Obama at doing that? Or convincing them to return the remains of over 200 American soldiers killed in the Korean War? Could Obama have done that?

Or what about officially declaring Jerusalem as Israel's capital, as Obama claimed he would do? Or building a secure wall on the border, as Obama also claimed he would do? Or getting the government off the backs of business and industry, stimulating America to become net exporter of gas and oil for the first time, or the massive jump in the Dow, the record low black, Hispanic, and female unemployment numbers, or bringing back all those manufacturing jobs?

I know that you're all safe, warm, and comfortable in your little echo chamber of a world, where you don't have to face up to reality, but the reality is this: President Trump's foreign and domestic policies have been far more effective than anything Obama could have accomplished