Mosque shooting in New Zealand

[JGalt]

Have to agree with M14 here. Laws trail events; they don't lead them. We have so much gun violence in this country because we have a gun-fetish culture. Laws really don't affect that.

Laws strictly regulating handguns and assault style rifles would reduce firearm homicide rates.

You mean similar to the strict laws they have in Chicago, Baltimore, and St. Louis?

Yeah, fuckthat.

 

[harmonica]

.......you are a real genius --NZ's murder rate is FIVE times lower than the US--and you use it for gun control NOT working....????!!!!!!!!!??????
...you also bring up the UK--murder rate FOUR times lower

..correct me if I'm wrong---we want LOWER murder rates--not higher-----right??

There are more things under heaven and on earth that effect murder rates, Harmonica, than gun laws.

......the US has one of the highest gun owner ships in the world--yet the murder rate is MANY times higher than France, Japan, UK, NZ, etc
..please explain....
what else Affects murder rates?

You do know that we are different from France, Japan etc don't you?

There are many factors that affect murder rates besides gun laws

That you see gun laws as a panacea for murder illustrates your simplistic thinking

Many states with lax gun laws have murder rates as low as the UK

....I asked you to state those factors--and you DID NOT--because you know it's bullshit
one more time--state the factors

 

[Marion Morrison]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Never happens... I guess the whole world must be a gun free zone, since a mass shooter has never been stopped by a good guy with a gun before he got started.

Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.

links?

Here....

Keep in mind almost all mass public shootings take place in government mandated gun free zones for law abiding citizens...so they don't have their legal guns with them most of the time....but when they do?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

1. the US has the highest gun ownership rates in the WORLD!!
we HAVE more guns than anyone else
Which countries rank high in private gun ownership? After the top spot, you may be surprised | CBC News
2. Active shooter event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahaha--283--hahahhahahahahhaah
...94%!!!
you want people carrying EVERYWHERE??!!!
a lot of people don't WANT to carry
?????
WTF???WTF do you want??
there are over 11,000 murders per year
....then we have robberies/rapes/etc --your stats are ridiculous--what are you trying to say??!!
3. Concealed Carry.com--they are really unbiased !! hahahahahahhaha
4. how come cops get killed/shot going on a warrant--ready for action--yet they have guns ready for action?

you have not even have had a fairly decent argument ever
...for pro-gun arguments, you bring up countries that have a murder rate many times lower than the US...........???
etc

You seem a wee tad unhinged, brah. You ok?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not much information yet but it sounds pretty bad.
Witness: Many dead in New Zealand mosque shooting

But, guns are outlawed in New Zealand?

No they aren't, dipshit.

Yes they are, liar.

{
After the Aramoana massacre in November 1990, John Banks, the Minister for Police, announced that the government would ban what he and others described as "Rambo-style" weapons and substantially tighten gun laws generally. The law was eventually passed in 1992 and required written permits to order guns or ammunition by mail order, restricted ammunition sales to firearms licence holders, added photographs to firearms licences, required licence holders to have secure storage for firearms at their homes (which would be inspected before a licence was issued), and, controversially, required all licence holders to be re-vetted for new licences, which would be valid for only 10 years.

The law also created the new category of "military-style semi-automatic", which like the Federal Assault Weapons Ban two years later in the United States, mainly covered the appearance rather than the functionality of the guns. These required a special endorsement, security and registration in the same manner as pistols, but could be used wherever A-category guns could.}

Gun laws in New Zealand - Wikipedia

 

[Uncensored2008]

With enough pressure the left wing within the United states will seek to abolish the second amendment, and the right wing within the US will see this as an attack on their very freedom and liberty.

This attempted abolishment of rights by the left will result in a dramatic polarization of the people in the United States and eventually a fracturing of the US along cultural and racial lines..."

what a dumb ass ...we're already well on our way down that road ...the left didn't really need your help ...but congrats dumb ass ya succeed by sending em to over drive


progressives round the planet are all very excited ..they haven't had a hug a Muslim candlelight vigil in a while

There's also the possibility that this could spark some reprisal attacks from some Islamic sect.

WHICH is exactly what the nutjob murder wants, to spark a religious war.

 

[Synthaholic]

YOU WINGNUTS ARE SO FUCKING STUPID!

2aguy must be your thought leader.

The police have described the gunman as a man in his late 20s and officials have said he was an Australian citizen, which has led to comparisons between gun laws in that country and in New Zealand.

While New Zealand’s laws governing the purchase of semiautomatic rifles are more restrictive than those in the United States, the country is much freer with firearms than Australia is, allowing most guns to be purchased without requiring them to be tracked.

“New Zealand is almost alone with the United States in not registering 96 percent of its firearms — and those are its most common firearms, the ones most used in crimes,” said Philip Alpers of GunPolicy.org, a clearinghouse for gun law data worldwide. “There are huge gaps in New Zealand law, even if some of its laws are strong.”

New Zealand’s Gun Laws Draw Scrutiny After Mosque Shootings

Universal background check...yes

Every gun owner licensed...yes

High capacity magazines banned...yes

Assault weapon ban...no BUT...

Special license specific to military style rifles...YES

Almost everything the gun controllers want in the USA.



-------

How the fuck would a firearm registration stop a mass shooting?!?!?!

Stick to the OP. Is 2aguy ignorant or just dishonest?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not much information yet but it sounds pretty bad.
Witness: Many dead in New Zealand mosque shooting

The shooters praised Donald Trump and right wing anti-Muslim Candace Owens.

At least he TROLLED Candace.

Oh, and what makes Owens "Anti-Muslim," comrade?

I am anti-Muslim, but never seen anything from Candace that was.

 

[Uncensored2008]

This is the dream scenario for lefties. Can’t wait to hear how it’s President Trump’s fault.

The scumbags are already claiming it, piles of shit that they are.

 

[JGalt]

Not much information yet but it sounds pretty bad.
Witness: Many dead in New Zealand mosque shooting

The shooters praised Donald Trump and right wing anti-Muslim Candace Owens.

At least he TROLLED Candace.

Oh, and what makes Owens "Anti-Muslim," comrade?

I am anti-Muslim, but never seen anything from Candace that was.

Actually, he admonished Owens for being so hard core. I seem to remember reading that in his manifesto.

 

[Synthaholic]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Fucking idiot. You post a thread without having a fucking clue what you’re talking about.

New Zealand’s Gun Laws Draw Scrutiny After Mosque Shootings

NYTImes bullshit. Calling on ONE SIDE to analyze NZ gun laws.... The arguments are that 96% of guns "aren't registered"... But by the gun-grabbers own words -- EVERY OWNER IS LICENSED... So it's the INDIVIDUAL that kills, not the gun..

Lies by omission.. Trademark of our current fake news....

A forum moderator who doesn’t know what the OP is about. How nice.

Is New Zealand a gun free zone or is 2aguy ignorant?

 

[Marion Morrison]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Fucking idiot. You post a thread without having a fucking clue what you’re talking about.

New Zealand’s Gun Laws Draw Scrutiny After Mosque Shootings

NYTImes bullshit. Calling on ONE SIDE to analyze NZ gun laws.... The arguments are that 96% of guns "aren't registered"... But by the gun-grabbers own words -- EVERY OWNER IS LICENSED... So it's the INDIVIDUAL that kills, not the gun..

Lies by omission.. Trademark of our current fake news....

A forum moderator who doesn’t know what the OP is about. How nice.

Is New Zealand a gun free zone or is 2aguy ignorant?

If their rules only allow 7 rounds, how did he have 30-round magazines?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Have to agree with M14 here. Laws trail events; they don't lead them. We have so much gun violence in this country because we have a gun-fetish culture. Laws really don't affect that.

Laws strictly regulating handguns and assault style rifles would reduce firearm homicide rates.

Utter bullshit.

Like they did in New Zealand which outlaws semi-auto rifles?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Not much information yet but it sounds pretty bad.
Witness: Many dead in New Zealand mosque shooting

The shooters praised Donald Trump and right wing anti-Muslim Candace Owens.

At least he TROLLED Candace.

Oh, and what makes Owens "Anti-Muslim," comrade?

I am anti-Muslim, but never seen anything from Candace that was.

Actually, he admonished Owens for being so hard core. I seem to remember reading that in his manifesto.

A hipster style attempt to be ironic. He was trolling, in an extremely sick way.

{Together, the posts suggest that every aspect of the shootings was designed to gain maximum attention online, in part by baiting the media. The shooter live-streamed the attack itself on Facebook, and the video was quickly shared across YouTube, Twitter, and Instagram. Before committing the act, he shouted, “Remember, lads, subscribe to PewDiePie,” a reference to Felix Kjellberg, who runs YouTube’s most subscribed-to channel. The phrase itself is a meme started by PewDiePie’s fans, and its goal is to be reprinted.}

The Christchurch Shooter's Manifesto Is Meant to Troll - The Atlantic

 

[beautress]

Someone was working overtime to cram stuff at your link, Uncensored2008. I was right in the middle of reading, then it changed to a different page. When I hit the left arrow to go back, it wasn't the same information. One said guns were allowed, the other wasn't there long enough to read it, but the first line seemed to be something about past events that caused certain kinds of military guns used in terror attack were banned. The one below supports the idea that gun laws should be changed in NZ, or at least id did a few minutes ago. Mankind has his share of mood swings, but the information highway says what the last hacker says went down, I guess.

New Zealand leader vows to change gun laws after terrorist attack on mosques

 

[Uncensored2008]

Someone was working overtime to cram stuff at your link, Uncensored2008. I was right in the middle of reading, then it changed to a different page. When I hit the left arrow to go back, it wasn't the same information. One said guns were allowed, the other wasn't there long enough to read it, but the first line seemed to be something about past events that caused certain kinds of military guns used in terror attack were banned. The one below supports the idea that gun laws should be changed in NZ, or at least id did a few minutes ago. Mankind has his share of mood swings, but the information highway says what the last hacker says went down, I guess.

New Zealand leader vows to change gun laws after terrorist attack on mosques

That just means that Dont Taz Me Bro is out manipulating the threads again. The dude tries to alter the outcome of reality to fit his bizarre vision.

 

[busybee01]

The shooter........calls himself an Eco-fascist, zero population, anti-capitalist...........before the left wingers start up......

Again, there were multiple shooters from what i'm reading...

Yep, even worse........complete failure of gun control and a complete failure of gun free zones to keep people safe...on an island, with gun control.

Again, you're lying. The nation had lax gun control laws.

What are New Zealand's gun laws?

And the shooter, published a "Replacement" manifesto, and cited that he believes in Trump's white nationalism. This man is a self-admitted right wing terrorist.

This attack is similar to the attack in Norway, and the American Coast Guard operative who was amassing a weapons cache to launch a similar attack in the US. This is the planned attack by right wing terrorists.

Moron, he called himself an Eco-fascist......he praised Chinese communism...

He was a white nationalist. One of your kind.

 

[Missourian]

Had someone in those mosques had a gun, the shooter could have been stopped....he reloaded several times......

another gun free zone tragedy.....

Never happens... I guess the whole world must be a gun free zone, since a mass shooter has never been stopped by a good guy with a gun before he got started.

Moron, actual research shows that armed citizens have a 94% success rate when they have their guns with them at stopping mass shooters, and saving lives.......but don't let facts get in your way.

links?

Here....

Keep in mind almost all mass public shootings take place in government mandated gun free zones for law abiding citizens...so they don't have their legal guns with them most of the time....but when they do?

Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events [FBI]

Of all the active shooter events there were 33 at which an armed citizen was present. Of those, Armed Citizens were successful at stopping the Active shooter 75.8% of the time (25 incidents) and were successful in reducing the loss of life in an additional 18.2% (6) of incidents. In only 2 of the 33 incidents (6.1%) was the Armed Citizen(s) not helpful in any way in stopping the active shooter or reducing the loss of life.

Thus the headline of our report that Armed Citizens Are Successful 94% Of The Time At Active Shooter Events.


In the 2 incidents at which the armed citizen “failed” to stop or slow the active shooter, one is the previously mentioned incident with hunters. The other is an incident in which the CCWer was shot in the back in a Las Vegas Walmart when he failed to identify that there were 2 Active Shooters involved in the attack. He neglected to identify the one that shot him in the back while he was trying to ambush the other perpetrator.

We also decided to look at the breakdown of events that took place in gun free zones and the relative death toll from events in gun free zones vs non-gun-free zones.

Of the 283 incidents in our data pool, we were unable to identify if the event took place in a gun-free zone in a large number (41%) of the events. Most of the events took place at a business, church, home, or other places at which as a rule of law it is not a gun free zone but potentially could have been declared one by the property owner. Without any information in the FBI study or any indication one way or the other from the news reports, we have indicated that event with a question mark.

If you look at all of the Active Shooter events (pie chart on the top) you see that for those which we have the information, almost twice as many took place in gun free zones than not; but realistically the vast majority of those for which we have no information (indicated as ?) are probably NOT gun free zones.

If you isolate just the events at which 8 or more people were killed the data paints a different picture (pie chart on the bottom). In these incidents, 77.8% took place in a gun-free zone suggesting that gun free zones lead to a higher death rate vs active shooter events in general

=====

One of the final metrics we thought was important to consider is the potential tendency for armed citizens to injure or kill innocent people in their attempt to “save the day.” A common point in political discussions is to point out the lack of training of most armed citizens and the decrease in safety inherent in their presence during violent encounters.

As you can see below, however, at the 33 incidents at which Armed Citizens were present, there were zero situations at which the Armed Citizen injured or killed an innocent person. It never happened.

1. the US has the highest gun ownership rates in the WORLD!!
we HAVE more guns than anyone else
Which countries rank high in private gun ownership? After the top spot, you may be surprised | CBC News
2. Active shooter event!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahhahahahaha--283--hahahhahahahahhaah
...94%!!!
you want people carrying EVERYWHERE??!!!
a lot of people don't WANT to carry
?????
WTF???WTF do you want??
there are over 11,000 murders per year
....then we have robberies/rapes/etc --your stats are ridiculous--what are you trying to say??!!
3. Concealed Carry.com--they are really unbiased !! hahahahahahhaha
4. how come cops get killed/shot going on a warrant--ready for action--yet they have guns ready for action?

you have not even have had a fairly decent argument ever
...for pro-gun arguments, you bring up countries that have a murder rate many times lower than the US...........???
etc

Didn't New Zealand have a murder rate many times lower than the US BEFORE they instituted gun control?

 

[BWK]

Apparently, gun control doesn't work in New Zealand......they have had a mass public shooting against two Mosques. The shooter....who had a gun.......may have killed 49 people....... but this isn't possible, because they have gun control in New Zealand...so initial reports are likely wrong....

And, of course, the sites were gun free zones....right?

And before the anti-gunners start......I used to wait to comment on these attacks....until the anti-gunners would be the first on the scene, walking through the blood, dragging the bodies to the nearest camera calling for taking guns away from the very people who could have stopped the attack...

Christchurch shooting: 49 dead in terror attack at two mosques – live updates

• Forty-nine people have been killed in shootings at two mosques in the New Zealand city of Christchurch. They included 41 people killed at the Deans Avenue mosque and seven at Linwood mosque. Another victim died later in Christchurch hospital.

Lol! Typical Republican response, while ignoring the far-right white supremacist tendencies. Domestic Right-wing white supremacist terrorism is the single most dangerous threat to our country, and others like New Zealand.

Retreating to the gun debate is nothing more than a distraction to the issue at hand.

 

[cnm]

You cannot prove this to be true.

Proof only exists in maths. Everywhere else, evidence is the key. I have given data as evidence. You have made assertions.

 

[Missourian]

He was a white nationalist. One of your kind.

Link to 2Aguy being a white nationalist.

Put up our shut up.