Mother of 4 deported

[RetiredGySgt]

More bullshit. Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line. The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays. I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

lol Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.

You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.

You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Shouldn't have used a fake Visa, and shouldn't have been allowed to stay in the first place. Good riddance.

 

[Slade3200]

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with. You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good

"If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here. There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.

You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way

It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally. If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.

Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election. So the only way to really do something significant is to find a way to unify on a way to tackle this issue. That requires compromise from both sides. You can keep doubling down on the tough guy method, but its a road to nowhere.

 

[Slade3200]

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays. I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

lol Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.

You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.

You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.

Amnesty is a full pardon. Like in our courts of law, people can be found guilty of a crime but plea it down or skip jail time for probation. My point being, you can get these people out of the shadows, in the system, legal status to work and pay taxes and better contribute to our communities but make that pathway also include things like community services, a legalization tax, and whatever other kinds of penalties that make sense. The goal being make this legalization path less attractive than the legal path, and bring millions of people into our economic system and out of the shadows. It makes sense if you have an open mind.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

lol Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.

You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.

You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.

Amnesty is a full pardon. Like in our courts of law, people can be found guilty of a crime but plea it down or skip jail time for probation. My point being, you can get these people out of the shadows, in the system, legal status to work and pay taxes and better contribute to our communities but make that pathway also include things like community services, a legalization tax, and whatever other kinds of penalties that make sense. The goal being make this legalization path less attractive than the legal path, and bring millions of people into our economic system and out of the shadows. It makes sense if you have an open mind.

Or to put it another way, give in to them and forget about our laws.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.

No, this is why Donald Trump is our President today.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa

Very good questions. I would say only that they were "allowed" for so long........to stay. They have been "allowed" to work........some may be clean. With citizen anchor babies. WTH? GOVT "allowed" them.

I don't know? I do know.......all the bad ones could go. We know many are in Jail(s).

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with. You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good

Of course they'll come. If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money? If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast would you drive on the highway?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We don't need a new policy. We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine. Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make the decision if our policies are good enough for them.

When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?

I would say since the Bush years and carried right through today.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?

Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?

Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million. Today, it's estimated over 20 million. That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today. Signs were all in English, ballots were in English only, you never had to press any button on the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time. Only a select few people had problems with opiates. Today, people are dropping like flies from those drugs. In my county, we are setting new records all the time.

So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it

So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?

 

[Slade3200]

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

lol Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.

You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.

You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.

Amnesty is a full pardon. Like in our courts of law, people can be found guilty of a crime but plea it down or skip jail time for probation. My point being, you can get these people out of the shadows, in the system, legal status to work and pay taxes and better contribute to our communities but make that pathway also include things like community services, a legalization tax, and whatever other kinds of penalties that make sense. The goal being make this legalization path less attractive than the legal path, and bring millions of people into our economic system and out of the shadows. It makes sense if you have an open mind.

Or to put it another way, give in to them and forget about our laws.

Apparently this whole thing is going over your head...

 

[Slade3200]

Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.

No, this is why Donald Trump is our President today.

I thought he was president because people hated Obamacare

 

[Slade3200]

Very good questions. I would say only that they were "allowed" for so long........to stay. They have been "allowed" to work........some may be clean. With citizen anchor babies. WTH? GOVT "allowed" them.

I don't know? I do know.......all the bad ones could go. We know many are in Jail(s).

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with. You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good

Of course they'll come. If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money? If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast would you drive on the highway?

I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades. Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.

 

[Eloy]

The man in question nor any of his American children are any of those bad hombres you wrote about.

Not the point.

Is your head as soft as your heart?

She broke the law.

Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.

You're crying because it is breaking up the family.

When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.

I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.

The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud

There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?

We draw the line through intelligent debate and an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line

We don't need a new policy. We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine. Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make the decision if our policies are good enough for them.

You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.

 

[Slade3200]

When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?

I would say since the Bush years and carried right through today.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?

Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?

Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million. Today, it's estimated over 20 million. That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today. Signs were all in English, ballots were in English only, you never had to press any button on the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time. Only a select few people had problems with opiates. Today, people are dropping like flies from those drugs. In my county, we are setting new records all the time.

So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it

So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?

Cut it off from Mexico and the people who want to use it will find it from somewhere else, or they will do something different. Prescription pills are probably a bigger problem in most areas of our country than heroine.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I would say since the Bush years and carried right through today.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?

Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?

Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million. Today, it's estimated over 20 million. That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today. Signs were all in English, ballots were in English only, you never had to press any button on the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time. Only a select few people had problems with opiates. Today, people are dropping like flies from those drugs. In my county, we are setting new records all the time.

So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it

So where do you suppose it comes from--Canada?

Cut it off from Mexico and the people who want to use it will find it from somewhere else, or they will do something different. Prescription pills are probably a bigger problem in most areas of our country than heroine.

Then why don't we have record deaths of people using prescriptions? We certainly have them with opiate drugs today.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Not the point.

Is your head as soft as your heart?

She broke the law.

Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.

You're crying because it is breaking up the family.

When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.

I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.

The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud

There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?

We draw the line through intelligent debate and an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line

We don't need a new policy. We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine. Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make the decision if our policies are good enough for them.

You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.

That "policy" is in direct contradiction of us law which Trump swore to uphold.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not the point.

Is your head as soft as your heart?

She broke the law.

Despite attempts, she is finally being held responsible for breaking the law.

You're crying because it is breaking up the family.

When a rapist, murderer, drug dealer, etc goes to prison, they are separated from their families.

I see no reason she can't be separated from hers.

The fact that you are equating her to a rapist, murderer, drug dealer just highlights the problem. It's where the word deplorable came from. I'm sure that makes you proud

There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?

We draw the line through intelligent debate and an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line

We don't need a new policy. We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine. Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make the decision if our policies are good enough for them.

You are making the mistake of confusing policy with law.
The policy of not deporting a mother of American children was working fine until Donald Trump became president.

Our law is that you can face deportation if you are caught here illegally. It's just that DumBama never wanted to enforce it.

And if you disagree, name me one law that is being broken with getting rid of this woman who had her welfare children?

 

[Missouri_Mike]

Is this criminal bitch gone yet?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with. You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good

Of course they'll come. If there was no enforced penalty for robbing a bank, wouldn't you give it a try if you didn't have enough money? If there was no enforced penalty for speeding, how fast would you drive on the highway?

I never said there shouldn't be an enforcement penalty for people who illegally cross the border. Border enforcement is a different issue than undocumented residents who have been living here for years/decades. Try and keep up man, i'm getting tire of this constant clarification for those of you who can't understand simple points.

There is no simpler point than if you are here illegally, you may be kicked out one day. It's YOU that can't keep up.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

lol Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.

You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.

You support amnesty you keep claiming it isn't that but then you proceed to tell us how millions get to stay, you know AMNESTY.

Amnesty is a full pardon. Like in our courts of law, people can be found guilty of a crime but plea it down or skip jail time for probation. My point being, you can get these people out of the shadows, in the system, legal status to work and pay taxes and better contribute to our communities but make that pathway also include things like community services, a legalization tax, and whatever other kinds of penalties that make sense. The goal being make this legalization path less attractive than the legal path, and bring millions of people into our economic system and out of the shadows. It makes sense if you have an open mind.

ANY system that allows illegals to remain and become legal is amnesty and will only attracted millions more with the same concept that brought this 10 million, 2 million got forgiven so we will too.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Unfortunately for you the country is way to divided on this issue... We have elections every 4 years and you are no where near a consensus on this issue. You start playing tough guy and more stories like the one in the OP start popping up, then next election you have a leader that is ready to tear apart the tough guy policies. This is why you are short sighted and this is why the undocumented in this country will always wait out the next election.

No, this is why Donald Trump is our President today.

I thought he was president because people hated Obamacare

Every Republican running hated Obama Care. But only one campaigned on strict enforcement of our immigration laws and building the wall. The other Republican candidates sounded like you, and that's why Trump won.