Mother of 4 deported

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is truth to your words. BUT where do we draw the line?

We draw the line through intelligent debate and an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line

We don't need a new policy. We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine. Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make the decision if our policies are good enough for them.

When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?

I would say since the Bush years and carried right through today.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?

Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?

Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million. Today, it's estimated over 20 million. That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today. Signs were all in English, ballots were in English only, you never had to press any button on the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time. Only a select few people had problems with opiates. Today, people are dropping like flies from those drugs. In my county, we are setting new records all the time.

 

[toomuchtime_]

I "waffle". If someone is TRULY living crime free, working, TAXES paid, Kids OK in school, Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.

I would go after all the known criminals locked up first. I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date. And take them back and lock them up in their jails. The wall will not allow return.

Known BAD ones second, on probation, awaiting trial......gone.

VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them. Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing? willingly?

Whatever left, Take a good look. We can keep the good ones? Find a way...... IMVHO.

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

More bullshit. Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line. The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.

 

[Slade3200]

How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa

Very good questions. I would say only that they were "allowed" for so long........to stay. They have been "allowed" to work........some may be clean. With citizen anchor babies. WTH? GOVT "allowed" them.

I don't know? I do know.......all the bad ones could go. We know many are in Jail(s).

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

 

[Slade3200]

We draw the line through intelligent debate and an honest analysis about the situation to decide what is best for our country as a whole. Unfortunately with the partisan boneheads we have running this country and the even bigger partisan boneheads that support them the odds of achieving productive policy get further from reachable. I do agree with you that there needs to be a line

We don't need a new policy. We already have one in place, and until people like this came along, it was working just fine. Actually, it still works fine, but some Americans think that foreigners should make the decision if our policies are good enough for them.

When was it working just fine and when did the problems start?

I would say since the Bush years and carried right through today.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

You think everything was fine in the 80s? You did hear about the millions that were here illegally that Reagan gave amnesty to right?

Was that the system working as it should in your opinion?

Reagan later regretted that action, but as others have pointed out, that was 2 million. Today, it's estimated over 20 million. That's besides the fact they were not here changing our language as they are today. Signs were all in English, ballots were in English only, you never had to press any button on the phone to speak your language, I never seen heroin in my life because it was not around at the time. Only a select few people had problems with opiates. Today, people are dropping like flies from those drugs. In my county, we are setting new records all the time.

So now illegal immigration is responsible for heroin in Ohio? Damn man, you like to stretch it

 

[Slade3200]

I "waffle". If someone is TRULY living crime free, working, TAXES paid, Kids OK in school, Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.

I would go after all the known criminals locked up first. I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date. And take them back and lock them up in their jails. The wall will not allow return.

Known BAD ones second, on probation, awaiting trial......gone.

VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them. Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing? willingly?

Whatever left, Take a good look. We can keep the good ones? Find a way...... IMVHO.

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

More bullshit. Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line. The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays. I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?

 

[toomuchtime_]

How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa

Very good questions. I would say only that they were "allowed" for so long........to stay. They have been "allowed" to work........some may be clean. With citizen anchor babies. WTH? GOVT "allowed" them.

I don't know? I do know.......all the bad ones could go. We know many are in Jail(s).

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

 

[namvet]

I just saw this story on CNN. This mother of 4 got caught trying to cross the border with a fake visa 20 years ago, because of this she couldn't not get another visa but was told she could stay in the US but had to check in with ICE twice a year, which she did for the past 18 years. Now her entire family is here (mother, husband, 4 children and they are all American citizens. CNN covers her journey to check in with ICE as they were all nervous about the changes that came with President Trump.

She met with ICE and they told her she was good for another year. She left the building, gave her children hugs and then got called back in by ICE to find out that they were deporting her in July.

I get deporting violent criminals, I hear people asking Trump and his surrogates what they will do with non-violent criminal illegal immigrants and I hear them kicking the can saying they will deal with it later. But then I see stories like this were a mother who is not a violent criminal gets deported and a family is ripped apart.

Thoughts?

tuff shit

 

[toomuchtime_]

I "waffle". If someone is TRULY living crime free, working, TAXES paid, Kids OK in school, Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.

I would go after all the known criminals locked up first. I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date. And take them back and lock them up in their jails. The wall will not allow return.

Known BAD ones second, on probation, awaiting trial......gone.

VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them. Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing? willingly?

Whatever left, Take a good look. We can keep the good ones? Find a way...... IMVHO.

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

More bullshit. Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line. The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays. I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

 

[Slade3200]

How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa

Very good questions. I would say only that they were "allowed" for so long........to stay. They have been "allowed" to work........some may be clean. With citizen anchor babies. WTH? GOVT "allowed" them.

I don't know? I do know.......all the bad ones could go. We know many are in Jail(s).

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with. You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I "waffle". If someone is TRULY living crime free, working, TAXES paid, Kids OK in school, Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.

I would go after all the known criminals locked up first. I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date. And take them back and lock them up in their jails. The wall will not allow return.

Known BAD ones second, on probation, awaiting trial......gone.

VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them. Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing? willingly?

Whatever left, Take a good look. We can keep the good ones? Find a way...... IMVHO.

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

Wrong, again Reagan's amnesty in the 80's is the reason we have 10 million now, make another amnesty and we will have another 10 million, KICK them out.

 

[Slade3200]

I "waffle". If someone is TRULY living crime free, working, TAXES paid, Kids OK in school, Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.

I would go after all the known criminals locked up first. I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date. And take them back and lock them up in their jails. The wall will not allow return.

Known BAD ones second, on probation, awaiting trial......gone.

VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them. Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing? willingly?

Whatever left, Take a good look. We can keep the good ones? Find a way...... IMVHO.

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

More bullshit. Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line. The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays. I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

 

[Slade3200]

I "waffle". If someone is TRULY living crime free, working, TAXES paid, Kids OK in school, Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.

I would go after all the known criminals locked up first. I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date. And take them back and lock them up in their jails. The wall will not allow return.

Known BAD ones second, on probation, awaiting trial......gone.

VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them. Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing? willingly?

Whatever left, Take a good look. We can keep the good ones? Find a way...... IMVHO.

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

Wrong, again Reagan's amnesty in the 80's is the reason we have 10 million now, make another amnesty and we will have another 10 million, KICK them out.

You're right... Had Reagan not given amnesty to 3 million then I guess there would be 13 million here now instead of 10. Thanks for the correction.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

I "waffle". If someone is TRULY living crime free, working, TAXES paid, Kids OK in school, Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.

I would go after all the known criminals locked up first. I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date. And take them back and lock them up in their jails. The wall will not allow return.

Known BAD ones second, on probation, awaiting trial......gone.

VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them. Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing? willingly?

Whatever left, Take a good look. We can keep the good ones? Find a way...... IMVHO.

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

Wrong, again Reagan's amnesty in the 80's is the reason we have 10 million now, make another amnesty and we will have another 10 million, KICK them out.

You're right... Had he not done the amnesty then I guess there would be 12 million here now. Thanks for the correction.

Wrong if he had KICKED them out and enforced the border there would be few here now, the 10 million are because they all want amnesty too.

 

[Slade3200]

I "waffle". If someone is TRULY living crime free, working, TAXES paid, Kids OK in school, Not on Welfare, Not on SSI, does not have 20 aunts and uncles living illegally with them....etc.

I would go after all the known criminals locked up first. I would make their home country pay for lockup costs here to date. And take them back and lock them up in their jails. The wall will not allow return.

Known BAD ones second, on probation, awaiting trial......gone.

VISA overstays next. Charge them fee to find them. Or Surrender and go home on their own, half cost?

Maybe by now............many are disappearing? willingly?

Whatever left, Take a good look. We can keep the good ones? Find a way...... IMVHO.

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

Wrong, again Reagan's amnesty in the 80's is the reason we have 10 million now, make another amnesty and we will have another 10 million, KICK them out.

You're right... Had he not done the amnesty then I guess there would be 12 million here now. Thanks for the correction.

Wrong if he had KICKED them out and enforced the border there would be few here now, the 10 million are because they all want amnesty too.

Pretty sure they would have came anyway... Better border enforcement and visa tracking is what was needed.

 

[toomuchtime_]

How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa

Very good questions. I would say only that they were "allowed" for so long........to stay. They have been "allowed" to work........some may be clean. With citizen anchor babies. WTH? GOVT "allowed" them.

I don't know? I do know.......all the bad ones could go. We know many are in Jail(s).

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with. You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good

"If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here. There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.

 

[toomuchtime_]

If we are a nation of laws, it is important to apply those laws in the same way to everyone. It is a fact that under our present immigration laws most of the law abiding people in the world will never become eligible to even apply for an immigration visa to the US. Only people who are sponsored by a close relative who is a citizen or green card holder or by an employer or who possesses certain skills that are in short supply or who has exceptional educational achievements, such as a Ph.d or M.D., are eligible to apply for an immigration visa. Some exceptions are made, as in the case of Cubans, who arrived essentially illegally, until Obama nixed that exception or Iraqis and Afghanis who aided US forces, but in general, if you do not fall into one of the above categories you cannot apply for an immigration visa to the US. How can we then allow people who would not have qualified for an immigration visa to stay here simply because they haven't committed any crimes since entering the country illegally and still call ourselves a nation of laws?

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

More bullshit. Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line. The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays. I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

lol Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.

 

[Slade3200]

Very good questions. I would say only that they were "allowed" for so long........to stay. They have been "allowed" to work........some may be clean. With citizen anchor babies. WTH? GOVT "allowed" them.

I don't know? I do know.......all the bad ones could go. We know many are in Jail(s).

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with. You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good

"If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here. There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.

You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way

 

[Slade3200]

In an ideal world and by design you are correct, however, we do not live in an ideal world and the situation is one where we have 10+million people living here without documentation. Many have been here for decades, they have children who are citizens, and they are members of our communities. Modifications to our laws have to be made to properly deal with this situation or else we will be stuck in a perpetual war within our borders with millions of your so called criminals and their supporters. We are a civilized society so we should be smart enough to recognize what is possible and what isn't possible, what is smart/productive and what is destructive... there is a humane way to work together to deal with this situation but unfortunately people with your uncompromising and short sighted mindset will just cause conflict and stall progress.

More bullshit. Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line. The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays. I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

lol Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.

You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.

 

[toomuchtime_]

One way to look at it is that the government allowed them to stay, but another way to look at it is that they chose to stay on a year to year basis knowing each year they may not be allowed to stay for a second year. The important issue to my mind is what sends the proper policy message to all the millions who want to come here but who will never be eligible for an immigration visa: allowing them to stay or deporting them?

You are confusing people who have been here for years with people who might come here illegally in the future. Border security/enforcement vs. undocumented residents. These are two separate issues. And there is something to be said to the fact that our government has allowed many undocumented people to live here for so long. Are you familiar with adverse possession? It is written law common in real estate which actually does give ownership rights to people who occupy land for a specified period of time even if they are not the title owners. I realize this is not the same situation but it is similar in precedent.

It is all one issue, controlling illegal immigration. Most of those who want to come to the US will never even become eligible to apply for an immigration visa, so their only hope of ever living here to enter the US illegally, and if we allow others who have done that in the past to stay, we are inviting these new illegals to try to replicate their experience.

Who are you kidding? if they want to come they will come. It has been illegal for decades and they have still come. Tech is better and enforcement capabilities are better so we can focus on cracking down on the crossers and visa overstays. But the fact that it is so hard to come here the legal way is also a problem that needs to be dealt with. You're idea is a dud and will not work in the long term... Time for you to open your mind a little bit and think of the greater good

"If they want to come they will come" if the government were to grant amnesty to those illegals who are already here. There was a 40% decline in the expected level of illegal border crossings in Feb. and everyone involved attributes this to President Trump's tough policies on the illegals already here so how we deal with the illegals already here clearly has a significant effect on attempts to cross our borders illegally.

You're right on that point, except it wasn't policy that caused the decline it was fear caused by the rhetoric. It's all speculation, same with the stock market. We can follow through with the rhetoric and let fear and intimidation drive the policy. It is a very effective method. You have every right to support that. I just think we can do it in a smarter and better way

It is fear the rhetoric will turn into policies that will make being an illegal in the US so unpleasant that most will not try to enter illegally. If we are to control illegal immigration there is no other way to proceed, let alone a smarter or better way.

 

[toomuchtime_]

More bullshit. Amnesties such as you propose only lead to more illegal immigration and new calls for amnesties a few years down the line. The only way to control illegal immigration is to make it clear to everyone that if you enter the US illegally you will be made to feel unwelcome and will be deported when you are caught.

I've proposed an Amnesty with a type of probation, a pathway to legal status that is not just a straight pardon here's your citizen card... Don't start misrepresenting my position like you did yesterday. Nothing that i've proposed implys that we shouldn't deport illegal boarder crossers in the future. Or do better visa tracking and follow up on overstays. I was going to explain more of my ideas but I think it is just a waste of time with you. You don't seem capable of having a rational conversation as you don't display understanding or consideration of ideas that are different than your own. Why waste my time?

No one misrepresented your positions yesterday except you, just as you are trying to misrepresent your positions now. All the fake indignation in the world can't hide the fact that you are suggesting another amnesty and we know from experience that amnesties encourage more illegal immigration and new calls for new amnesties, so there is no rational basis for claiming the what we do with the illegals who are here now and what we do with new illegals are unrelated issues.

Well if you can't understand it then you can't understand it. Thats your problem. It is a rather complicated issue so I understand how some of it might go over your head. All I can tell you is if you want to learn more and understand better you gotta open your mind a little more. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and you are acting like an old dog.

lol Your problem is I do understand exactly what kind of scam you are trying to promote.

You obviously don't understand as you continuously misrepresent my points. I believe you think you understand, but since they are my comments and my ideas I can surly tell you that you don't accurately characterize my sentiments when you regurgitate them back.

You are the only person trying to misrepresent your positions.