MTP: Climate Change Discussion - no Deniers

[Dana7360]

A comprehensive conversation requires a wide range of viewpoints, including contrarians.

You never know what might pop up.

We just no longer care about that, because we're no longer listening.
.

People no longer care about that because nothing intelligent, honest or logical ever comes from climate change deniers.

All they do is hamper any progress that's possible.

They've been invited to the table for decades and all they do is everything they can to prevent any positive steps from being taken to at least slow it down or even take steps to change infrastructure to with stand the different climate extremes we are now having and will have in the future.

Their inaction and actions to stop any action taken to reverse or combat the problem kills people. Allows for unnecessary destruction of property and infrastructure and the loss of billions of dollars.

If they had something positive and constructive to contribute they would still be welcome.

 

[Oddball]

If you cannot accept the fact that human caused climate change is a severe national security threat, you are of no use to anyone as we try to come up with workable solutions. So you have no place in the conversation. Ciao!

"We".....LMAO!

Prove your "solutions" are workable or even possible.

 

[progressive hunter]

Again. There is no viable contrarian thought on the existence of human caused climate change and it’s threat to our national security. It is fact.

If you don’t agree with that assessment, you are not invited to the debate regarding how to deal with the threat.

What’s fucked up is that intelligent people like you think it’s important to placate those who will not accept facts....so we can pretend to be open minded.

100% lie.

You cannot have an intelligent conversation whose baseline premise is a total lie.

Sorry. You’re not invited. Peace.

There you have it....Live your lies or have no place in the conversation.

Good job, Karl.

If you cannot accept the fact that human caused climate change is a severe national security threat, you are of no use to anyone as we try to come up with workable solutions. So you have no place in the conversation. Ciao!

since I've given you morons the solution several times it makes it clear your objective is other than to solve the problem

 

[Oddball]

People no longer care about that because nothing intelligent, honest or logical ever comes from climate change deniers.

All they do is hamper any progress that's possible.

They've been invited to the table for decades and all they do is everything they can to prevent any positive steps from being taken to at least slow it down or even take steps to change infrastructure to with stand the different climate extremes we are now having and will have in the future.

Their inaction and actions to stop any action taken to reverse or combat the problem kills people. Allows for unnecessary destruction of property and infrastructure and the loss of billions of dollars.

If they had something positive and constructive to contribute they would still be welcome.

I'm right, you're wrong...So wrong that you actually want to kill people.

This is the side that claims "science".

 

[Mac1958]

A comprehensive conversation requires a wide range of viewpoints, including contrarians.

You never know what might pop up.

We just no longer care about that, because we're no longer listening.
.

People no longer care about that because nothing intelligent, honest or logical ever comes from climate change deniers.

All they do is hamper any progress that's possible.

They've been invited to the table for decades and all they do is everything they can to prevent any positive steps from being taken to at least slow it down or even take steps to change infrastructure to with stand the different climate extremes we are now having and will have in the future.

Their inaction and actions to stop any action taken to reverse or combat the problem kills people. Allows for unnecessary destruction of property and infrastructure and the loss of billions of dollars.

If they had something positive and constructive to contribute they would still be welcome.

There's always an excuse to shut someone down. I'm not a fan of that.
.

 

[Olde Europe]

Only people who are in complete agreement should communicate on the important issues. We must shut down and shut out all contrarian thought .

That's where we are, gang. We've gotten that fucked up.
.

Oh, simplicity. As if there weren't significant enough differences between climate scientists, or between folks suggesting how to counter and prepare for what's coming, even while they've convinced themselves about the reality of AGW based on near-universal scientific consensus. "Complete agreement", my arse. There hasn't been so much bloviating nonsense and ignorance crammed into that short an expression since... well, since the last time you rode your demented shtick.

The time for the denialingdongs is over, and they can join the flat-earthers and similar dinosaurs on their way to oblivion. There is no more "debate" about the validity of the fundamental findings of climate science than there is about the shape of the earth's surface, even if the former is light years above your pay grade. You can go sell your ignorance and your mendacity some place else.

That's where we are, "gang". Grow up, face the facts, or step aside.

 

[Dana7360]

A comprehensive conversation requires a wide range of viewpoints, including contrarians. You never know what might pop up. We just no longer care about that, because we're no longer listening.

Because, what we really, really need for a comprehensive conversation is stooges lying through their teeth on behalf of Exxon's bottom line for decades, because we know exactly what will "pop up". SMH.

See?
.

Yeah, I see. The Exxon stooge shows up, saying, basically, "Yes, I am a paid-for liar, and I'll tell you exactly the same counter-factual crap I've been telling for years, but no 'debate' shall remain un-besmirched by my presence, and no scientific truth shall be spared my mendacious distortions, so hear me out!"

You, following your demented shtick, make that sordid comedy and corporate propaganda into a fact-finding mission.

Ah, hit, again, by the weapon of the intellectually helpless:

Funny x 1
Mac1958

What an idiot you've become, Mac.

The nation's problem isn't that "contrarians" are excluded. It's that truth and falsehood / lies / distortions / propaganda were given equal weight for far too long, and the "both-sides" morons want to keep it that way.

Wow, personal insults, name-calling, partisan myopia.

Perfect, thanks.
.

We've already heard what they have to say. We've heard it for years. There's nothing new.

We don't need to keep listening to the same lies and garbage over and over again. It's a waste of time and frankly insulting to intelligent people. We aren't as stupid as they think that we would actually believe their lame lies and distortions.

When you want to find solutions to a problem you don't include those who work 100% to stop you from finding those solutions and implementing them.

They don't have any solutions. Their solution is the lie that climate change is fake and we don't need to do anything about it. We've heard it all for years.

So since they have no solutions, why include them in a debate with a subject of finding solutions?

 

[Oddball]

Oh, simplicity. As if there weren't significant enough differences between climate scientists, or between folks suggesting how to counter and prepare for what's coming, even while they've convinced themselves about the reality of AGW based on near-universal scientific consensus. "Complete agreement", my arse. There hasn't been so much bloviating nonsense and ignorance crammed into that short an expression since... well, since the last time you rode your demented shtick.

Two words that are mutually exclusive....Science isn't up for a vote....Prove your hypothesis or STFU.

The time for the denialingdongs is over, and they can join the flat-earthers and similar dinosaurs on their way to oblivion. There is no more "debate" about the validity of the fundamental findings of climate science than there is about the shape of the earth's surface, even if the former is light years above your pay grade. You can go sell your ignorance and your mendacity some place else.


That's where we are, "gang". Grow up, face the facts, or step aside.

Then descend into the ad hominems, recriminations, and self-righteous arrogance....Some "science".

 

[Correll]

No, your question to me seemed to be aimed at all environmental laws, not just climate change related legislation. The problem with enacting climate change laws is the obstructionism of the right. No doubt that higher café standards helped as well as regs that the Obama Administration enacted and that Trump is trying to undo.

Nope. The context was obvious. Your pretense of confusion is a lie.


You lefties have had your way in Europe, and in the UN, and in many large states, and during the Obama administration, ect.


So, give us a tally of some of the results, or admit is was all bullshit.

Your context was not obvious, but your post is now deflection. The purpose of the thread is to discuss future action. Past action has been stymied by Republican obstructionism whether you choose to admit it or not. For instance tax credits for solar energy were on the rise when the Koch brothers supported a tax on solar panels. Give me solutions and not your typical obstructionism.

1. The context was obvious.

2. You greenies have been addressing Global Warming now for decades. YOu have been asked for a summary of results.

3. You cannot give any.

I gave you examples. You are deflecting give me solutions.

You must convince China to lower their carbon emissions

If they were serious, that would be their primary concern.

 

[Mac1958]

Because, what we really, really need for a comprehensive conversation is stooges lying through their teeth on behalf of Exxon's bottom line for decades, because we know exactly what will "pop up". SMH.

See?
.

Yeah, I see. The Exxon stooge shows up, saying, basically, "Yes, I am a paid-for liar, and I'll tell you exactly the same counter-factual crap I've been telling for years, but no 'debate' shall remain un-besmirched by my presence, and no scientific truth shall be spared my mendacious distortions, so hear me out!"

You, following your demented shtick, make that sordid comedy and corporate propaganda into a fact-finding mission.

Ah, hit, again, by the weapon of the intellectually helpless:

Funny x 1
Mac1958

What an idiot you've become, Mac.

The nation's problem isn't that "contrarians" are excluded. It's that truth and falsehood / lies / distortions / propaganda were given equal weight for far too long, and the "both-sides" morons want to keep it that way.

Wow, personal insults, name-calling, partisan myopia.

Perfect, thanks.
.

We've already heard what they have to say. We've heard it for years. There's nothing new.

We don't need to keep listening to the same lies and garbage over and over again. It's a waste of time and frankly insulting to intelligent people. We aren't as stupid as they think that we would actually believe their lame lies and distortions.

When you want to find solutions to a problem you don't include those who work 100% to stop you from finding those solutions and implementing them.

They don't have any solutions. Their solution is the lie that climate change is fake and we don't need to do anything about it. We've heard it all for years.

So since they have no solutions, why include them in a debt with a subject of finding solutions?

There it is again.
.

 

[progressive hunter]

Because, what we really, really need for a comprehensive conversation is stooges lying through their teeth on behalf of Exxon's bottom line for decades, because we know exactly what will "pop up". SMH.

See?
.

Yeah, I see. The Exxon stooge shows up, saying, basically, "Yes, I am a paid-for liar, and I'll tell you exactly the same counter-factual crap I've been telling for years, but no 'debate' shall remain un-besmirched by my presence, and no scientific truth shall be spared my mendacious distortions, so hear me out!"

You, following your demented shtick, make that sordid comedy and corporate propaganda into a fact-finding mission.

Ah, hit, again, by the weapon of the intellectually helpless:

Funny x 1
Mac1958

What an idiot you've become, Mac.

The nation's problem isn't that "contrarians" are excluded. It's that truth and falsehood / lies / distortions / propaganda were given equal weight for far too long, and the "both-sides" morons want to keep it that way.

Wow, personal insults, name-calling, partisan myopia.

Perfect, thanks.
.

We've already heard what they have to say. We've heard it for years. There's nothing new.

We don't need to keep listening to the same lies and garbage over and over again. It's a waste of time and frankly insulting to intelligent people. We aren't as stupid as they think that we would actually believe their lame lies and distortions.

When you want to find solutions to a problem you don't include those who work 100% to stop you from finding those solutions and implementing them.

They don't have any solutions. Their solution is the lie that climate change is fake and we don't need to do anything about it. We've heard it all for years.

So since they have no solutions, why include them in a debt with a subject of finding solutions?

since I've given you morons the solution several times it makes it clear your objective is other than to solve the problem

 

[Oddball]

We've already heard what they have to say. We've heard it for years. There's nothing new.

We don't need to keep listening to the same lies and garbage over and over again. It's a waste of time and frankly insulting to intelligent people. We aren't as stupid as they think that we would actually believe their lame lies and distortions.

When you want to find solutions to a problem you don't include those who work 100% to stop you from finding those solutions and implementing them.

They don't have any solutions. Their solution is the lie that climate change is fake and we don't need to do anything about it. We've heard it all for years.

So since they have no solutions, why include them in a debt with a subject of finding solutions?

And all we've heard from the warmers are models that have never ever been predictive, moving of the goalposts, excuse making, and ultimately the marginalization of anyone who even questions your assumptions, let alone points out that y'all have NFI what you're blabbering about.

Here's a solution: prove your "science", positively quantify it, repeat it for all to see, show your static control model, and disprove all other possible counter-explanations.

Until you do so -and none of the warmers has done so- all you have is a popcorn fart.

 

[Muhammed]

So you applaud bias and non diversity. Got it.

I applaud the need to change the debate to action and adaption. The science is settled. There are people still debating whether the earth is round. Time to move on or we will get nowhere.

Action and adaptation? Show me where the multi billions, some estimate over a trillion, has resulted in any meaningful action or adaption.

Well that is the purpose of the debate. To get to a solution that will work.

According to the laws of physics, it is impossible for increased anthropogenic CO2 in the atmosphere to cause any significant global warming.

The only climate change we need to be better prepared for is global cooling.

During periods when it is warmer, civilization thrives. The inevitable global cooling in the future will decimate the world's granary crops.

 

[Oddball]

If you cannot accept the fact that human caused climate change is a severe national security threat, you are of no use to anyone as we try to come up with workable solutions. So you have no place in the conversation. Ciao!

I don't accept lies as baseline assumptions, while you do.

You, sir, are a liar.

 

[Oddball]

 

[Dana7360]

Reducing the rate of adding more, is not reducing the carbon in the atmosphere.


Your proposed "solutions" are peanuts. What is your real agenda?

Sorry, my agenda is the environment, the future of my kids and not leaving them saddled with an environmental catastrophe. Sorry, if that disappoints you.

so tell us how many trees you planted last yr???

LOL my back yard is a jungle because I have refused to cut down a single tree.

And you demonstrate that you cannot tell the difference between NOT cutting down a tree and PLANTING a tree.


Do you understand how much that destroys the credibility of your statements on Global Warming?

I didnt ask how many you didnt cut down, i asked how many you planted???


so yes I do know the dif


I just figured a person as dedicated as you would have planted thousands of trees to show you can put you money where your mouth is,,but I guess thats to much to ask

instead we get you telling everyone else what they should do

my dog cares more for the planet than you do,,,he shits outside and doesnt use man made resources for it,,

dont be such a hypocrite

Before an accident that left me with stenosis, sclerosis, degenerative disk disease in my spine with nerve damage in my hands and arms, I planted a lot of trees.

There are native sequoia redwood trees growing in parts of my state because I planted them. We used to have giant sequoia redwood trees here in my state that were larger than the ones in California but they were cut down at the beginning of the 20th century by stupid humans.

I can't tell you how many I planted because the number is so large I lost track.

I also planted Douglas fir trees and Yew trees.

These days, since I can no longer do the actual planting myself, I donate money to buy trees for other people to plant. I also go out to the forest to take photos for legal cases to save trees. So far, all the cases I've supplied photos for, were settled in our favor. Which resulted in millions of trees and thousands of acres from being clear cut and destroyed.

I go out to document the very real results of global warming or climate change. The photo below is one of them. That is a photo of what is now left of the Nisqually River. It's source is the glacier of Mt. Rainier on it's south side. For most of my life it was a very deep and raging river. All of the area of rocks that aren't trees in that photo is supposed to be water. Very deep raging fast river, now reduced to a trickle I can literally step over. I shot that photo using a curved 14 to 28mm lens because the area is so big my normal wide angle lens can't get the whole thing. I can post you photo after photo documenting the clear cuts. Before and after photos of ice caves that existed for thousands of years now gone because they melted from climate change. I can post photo after photo of lakes, streams and rivers with levels either too low to sustain life or totally dry. Because of global climate change.

Planting trees isn't the only thing I've done for our environment. I've worked to save our environment and trees since my early 20s.


How many trees have you planted?

 

[progressive hunter]

Sorry, my agenda is the environment, the future of my kids and not leaving them saddled with an environmental catastrophe. Sorry, if that disappoints you.

so tell us how many trees you planted last yr???

LOL my back yard is a jungle because I have refused to cut down a single tree.

And you demonstrate that you cannot tell the difference between NOT cutting down a tree and PLANTING a tree.


Do you understand how much that destroys the credibility of your statements on Global Warming?

I didnt ask how many you didnt cut down, i asked how many you planted???


so yes I do know the dif


I just figured a person as dedicated as you would have planted thousands of trees to show you can put you money where your mouth is,,but I guess thats to much to ask

instead we get you telling everyone else what they should do

my dog cares more for the planet than you do,,,he shits outside and doesnt use man made resources for it,,

dont be such a hypocrite

Before an accident that left me with stenosis, sclerosis, degenerative disk disease in my spine with nerve damage in my hands and arms, I planted a lot of trees.

There are native sequoia redwood trees growing in parts of my state because I planted them. We used to have giant sequoia redwood trees here in my state that were larger than the ones in California but they were cut down at the beginning of the 20th century by stupid humans.

I can't tell you how many I planted because the number is so large I lost track.

I also planted Douglas fir trees and Yew trees.

These days, since I can no longer do the actual planting myself, I donate money to buy trees for other people to plant. I also go out to the forest to take photos for legal cases to save trees. So far, all the cases I've supplied photos for, were settled in our favor. Which resulted in millions of trees and thousands of acres from being clear cut and destroyed.

I go out to document the very real results of global warming or climate change. The photo below is one of them. That is a photo of what is now left of the Nisqually River. It's source is the glacier of Mt. Rainier on it's south side. For most of my life it was a very deep and raging river. All of the area of rocks that aren't trees in that photo is supposed to be water. Very deep raging fast river, now reduced to a trickle I can literally step over. I shot that photo using a curved 14 to 28mm lens because the area is so big my normal wide angle lens can't get the whole thing. I can post you photo after photo documenting the clear cuts. Before and after photos of ice caves that existed for thousands of years now gone because they melted from climate change. I can post photo after photo of lakes, streams and rivers with levels either too low to sustain life or totally dry. Because of global climate change.

View attachment 237580

Planting trees isn't the only thing I've done for our environment. I've worked to save our environment and trees since my early 20s.


How many trees have you planted?

I own and take care of at least 2000 trees in an urban area
and plan to plant at least 200-300 more this yr

might not be much but I'm not the one complaining while doing nothing myself,,

and the real solution has nothing to do with government, only the people can fix problems they caused

 

[Correll]

Sorry, my agenda is the environment, the future of my kids and not leaving them saddled with an environmental catastrophe. Sorry, if that disappoints you.

so tell us how many trees you planted last yr???

LOL my back yard is a jungle because I have refused to cut down a single tree.

And you demonstrate that you cannot tell the difference between NOT cutting down a tree and PLANTING a tree.


Do you understand how much that destroys the credibility of your statements on Global Warming?

I didnt ask how many you didnt cut down, i asked how many you planted???


so yes I do know the dif


I just figured a person as dedicated as you would have planted thousands of trees to show you can put you money where your mouth is,,but I guess thats to much to ask

instead we get you telling everyone else what they should do

my dog cares more for the planet than you do,,,he shits outside and doesnt use man made resources for it,,

dont be such a hypocrite

Before an accident that left me with stenosis, sclerosis, degenerative disk disease in my spine with nerve damage in my hands and arms, I planted a lot of trees.

There are native sequoia redwood trees growing in parts of my state because I planted them. We used to have giant sequoia redwood trees here in my state that were larger than the ones in California but they were cut down at the beginning of the 20th century by stupid humans.

I can't tell you how many I planted because the number is so large I lost track.

I also planted Douglas fir trees and Yew trees.

These days, since I can no longer do the actual planting myself, I donate money to buy trees for other people to plant. I also go out to the forest to take photos for legal cases to save trees. So far, all the cases I've supplied photos for, were settled in our favor. Which resulted in millions of trees and thousands of acres from being clear cut and destroyed.

I go out to document the very real results of global warming or climate change. The photo below is one of them. That is a photo of what is now left of the Nisqually River. It's source is the glacier of Mt. Rainier on it's south side. For most of my life it was a very deep and raging river. All of the area of rocks that aren't trees in that photo is supposed to be water. Very deep raging fast river, now reduced to a trickle I can literally step over. I shot that photo using a curved 14 to 28mm lens because the area is so big my normal wide angle lens can't get the whole thing. I can post you photo after photo documenting the clear cuts. Before and after photos of ice caves that existed for thousands of years now gone because they melted from climate change. I can post photo after photo of lakes, streams and rivers with levels either too low to sustain life or totally dry. Because of global climate change.

View attachment 237580

Planting trees isn't the only thing I've done for our environment. I've worked to save our environment and trees since my early 20s.


How many trees have you planted?

Johnlaw was asked this question and cited the fact that he had not CUT DOWN trees.


His lack of appreciation for the sacrifices demanded by the policies he supports is not only the point of the question, but far more representative of liberals than your example.

 

[progressive hunter]

so tell us how many trees you planted last yr???

LOL my back yard is a jungle because I have refused to cut down a single tree.

And you demonstrate that you cannot tell the difference between NOT cutting down a tree and PLANTING a tree.


Do you understand how much that destroys the credibility of your statements on Global Warming?

I didnt ask how many you didnt cut down, i asked how many you planted???


so yes I do know the dif


I just figured a person as dedicated as you would have planted thousands of trees to show you can put you money where your mouth is,,but I guess thats to much to ask

instead we get you telling everyone else what they should do

my dog cares more for the planet than you do,,,he shits outside and doesnt use man made resources for it,,

dont be such a hypocrite

Before an accident that left me with stenosis, sclerosis, degenerative disk disease in my spine with nerve damage in my hands and arms, I planted a lot of trees.

There are native sequoia redwood trees growing in parts of my state because I planted them. We used to have giant sequoia redwood trees here in my state that were larger than the ones in California but they were cut down at the beginning of the 20th century by stupid humans.

I can't tell you how many I planted because the number is so large I lost track.

I also planted Douglas fir trees and Yew trees.

These days, since I can no longer do the actual planting myself, I donate money to buy trees for other people to plant. I also go out to the forest to take photos for legal cases to save trees. So far, all the cases I've supplied photos for, were settled in our favor. Which resulted in millions of trees and thousands of acres from being clear cut and destroyed.

I go out to document the very real results of global warming or climate change. The photo below is one of them. That is a photo of what is now left of the Nisqually River. It's source is the glacier of Mt. Rainier on it's south side. For most of my life it was a very deep and raging river. All of the area of rocks that aren't trees in that photo is supposed to be water. Very deep raging fast river, now reduced to a trickle I can literally step over. I shot that photo using a curved 14 to 28mm lens because the area is so big my normal wide angle lens can't get the whole thing. I can post you photo after photo documenting the clear cuts. Before and after photos of ice caves that existed for thousands of years now gone because they melted from climate change. I can post photo after photo of lakes, streams and rivers with levels either too low to sustain life or totally dry. Because of global climate change.

View attachment 237580

Planting trees isn't the only thing I've done for our environment. I've worked to save our environment and trees since my early 20s.


How many trees have you planted?

Johnlaw was asked this question and cited the fact that he had not CUT DOWN trees.


His lack of appreciation for the sacrifices demanded by the policies he supports is not only the point of the question, but far more representative of liberals than your example.

he may not have cut any down, but that doesnt mean his existence isnt causing trees to be cut in his name, I would love to see his house and personal activities to see if he is a hypocrite like al gore

whats the old saying about having your own house in order before you complain about others???

 

[Dana7360]

so tell us how many trees you planted last yr???

LOL my back yard is a jungle because I have refused to cut down a single tree.

that didnt answer my question,,,how many trees did you plant last yr??

I ask because any honest environmentalist knows that trees are the only real solution,,,,all the rest is just fascist bullsht

He can't tell the difference between planting and not cutting.

You guys are really the crown fools of deflection. I have planted trees all over my yard. Do you really have to be led by the hand on every statement.

but how many,,,4-5 trees are not going to save the world


and since your commitment only includes your own yard its clear youre a fraud

and I can only assume you live in a house and drive a car,,,so for you to tell us what we should do while its you thats the problem is hypocrisy at its best

come back and talk to us when you fixed your own house and the problems you cause

I couldn't get past the lame statement that is your first sentence.

The person was asked how many trees they have planted. The person replied. So you attacked him saying his contribution is meaningless. If more people planted 4 or 5 trees we would have a lot of new trees planted. Attacking people's efforts is a way to excuse you from taking any action and for no one to take any action. People aren't buying that anymore.

Now I want you to tell that to all the people along highway 12 in Washington state who died in the mud slides caused by the horrible clear cutting. Oh wait. You can't. They're dead.

I want you to tell that to the people in OSO when the clear cut mountain above their homes collapsed and all the mud slid down on top of their homes. Oh you can't they're dead.

Tell that to all the commercial business that uses the Nisqually River. Oh you can't. The forest around it was logged so bad twenty five miles of the riverbank collapsed into the river killing everything there and down stream. They can't use what's left of that river anymore.

Four or five trees can make a difference. Trees keep soil and dirt in place. Old growth have thicker bark to make them more resistant to wildfires. They also create a canopy over the forest floor that protects the snow so it doesn't evaporate with sunshine.

Trees at the top of those mountains and throughout the levels of the mountain would have prevented the mud slides that kills so many people, that kills so much livestock, destroys so many farms, homes and lives.

Yes 4 or 5 trees can make a difference.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's 4 or 5 more than you've planted.

How many trees have you planted?