My revised position on the Bundy Ranch crisis

[TemplarKormac]

I nor any of you have enough information to pass judgment on this man or his situation.

We sure do.

Bundy is a welfare cheat.

Ironic statement is ironic.

 

[Iceweasel]

It's not every day you get to see the feds come in with 200 armed men and 9 helicopters and spending 3 million dollars to collect on a one million dollar debt.

It's what they do best.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I nor any of you have enough information to pass judgment on this man or his situation.

We sure do.

Bundy is a welfare cheat.

Ironic statement is ironic.

How so, TK. I don't live in my grandmother's basement. I have supported myself since I was an adult very successfully. I used the GI bill for education, small business loan, and a home loan. Now retired, I earn I bet three to five times annually the overwhelming number on the Board.

 

[tinydancer]

I also revised my position yesterday, TK. Same reason. If we don't obey the law of the land we are acting in lawlessness and that is wrong. As I understand it there is a standing court order. That pretty much settles it unless he wants to challenge it in court. But inviting thousands of people out there to join in the stand off is wrong. What if these people get hurt? Does the rancher want that on his conscience? I wouldn't want it on mine. The situation seems to be escalating and it is very disturbing to me. Even if his rights were violated the place to settle this is in a court of law. For the sake of others he must rethink this. imo.

Wouldn't be the first time a federal judge ruled incorrectly to help the rich squash the little people under their thumb.

The BLM’s official reason for encircling the Bundy family with sniper teams and helicopters was to protect the endangered desert tortoise, which the agency has previously been killing in mass due to “budget constraints.”

“A tortoise isn’t the reason why BLM is harassing a 67 year-old rancher; they want his land,” journalist Dana Loesch wrote. “The tortoise wasn’t of concern when [U.S. Senator] Harry Reid worked with BLM to literally change the boundaries of the tortoise’s habitat to accommodate the development of his top donor, Harvey Whittemore.”

“Reid is accused of using the new BLM chief as a puppet to control Nevada land (already over 84% of which is owned by the federal government) and pay back special interests,” she added. “BLM has proven that they’ve a situational concern for the desert tortoise as they’ve had no problem waiving their rules concerning wind or solar power development. Clearly these developments have vastly affected a tortoise habitat more than a century-old, quasi-homesteading grazing area.”

“If only Cliven Bundy were a big Reid donor.” » Breaking: Sen. Harry Reid Behind BLM Land Grab of Bundy Ranch Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

And if indeed Reid is behind this, then I will revise my position again. We shouldn't have a state Senator using the law to bully someone.

It is about the tortoise. Not the debt. And yes I know he owes money. And I know he has issues with the Feds since the 90's when they took over the state land because of the desert tortoise and commanded him to only let 150 cattle graze.

But there is far more to this saga than meets the eye.

What Dana Loesch says is true. They have these huge solar projects on the go out there and basically what is happening is the solar companies give huge buckolas literally millions and millions of dollars to the BLM to be able to destroy one habitat for wildlife and then BLM takes that money and invests it in another area.

It's like a pay to play scam on green energy vs the environment. 20 projects are scheduled for the desert. Gold Butte where Bundy has his cattle is the key to this story.


RENEWABLE ENERGY:
Mojave project tests Interior strategy for stemming habitat losses

Phil Taylor, E&E reporter
Greenwire: Tuesday, January 28, 2014


From the article.

Here's the plan: Solar companies that build power plants at the Dry Lake solar energy zone 30 miles west of here would agree to pay a mitigation fee for every acre of habitat they destroy.

BLM would use that cash to restore lands of similar character at the Gold Butte Area of Critical Environmental Concern. For example, it would plant native creosote-bursage vegetation on burn scars and abandoned roads, beat back noxious weeds, mitigate future wildfires, and bolster ranger patrols.

The draft Dry Lake solar regional mitigation plan is part of a broader Interior Department effort to stem the loss of habitat on public lands from development of massive solar and wind projects, oil and gas wells, transmission lines, pipelines, and roads.

BLM is going to use the millions for this mitigation project at Gold Butte. They need the cattle gone.

RENEWABLE ENERGY: Mojave project tests Interior strategy for stemming habitat losses -- Tuesday, January 28, 2014 -- www.eenews.net

I've been posting about this for the past couple of days and put up a ton of links.

 

[Dot Com]

Just heard on the radio that the Feds completed their task & left the militia-types to themselves

 

[TemplarKormac]

We sure do.

Bundy is a welfare cheat.

Ironic statement is ironic.

How so, TK. I don't live in my grandmother's basement. I have supported myself since I was an adult very successfully. I used the GI bill for education, small business loan, and a home loan. Now retired, I earn I bet three to five times annually the overwhelming number on the Board.

Low blow.

If I want your autobiography I'll ask for it. You're liberal. You've proven to be. Using the GI bill to get an education could be construed as a form of welfare, Jake. Sorry. Moreover, you advocate policies that keep people on their butts and in their basements (like me). You praise policies that destroy work ethic in America and it's economy.

And you have the gall to lecture me or anyone else on Welfare?

I'm sure Cliven Bundy could use the stunt double. Perhaps you'll understand when you're in his shoes instead of passing judgement here on an obscure political board on the internet.

 

[LoneLaugher]

Ironic statement is ironic.

How so, TK. I don't live in my grandmother's basement. I have supported myself since I was an adult very successfully. I used the GI bill for education, small business loan, and a home loan. Now retired, I earn I bet three to five times annually the overwhelming number on the Board.

Low blow.

If I want your autobiography I'll ask for it. You're liberal. You've proven to be. Using the GI bill to get an education could be construed as a form of welfare, Jake. Sorry. Moreover, you advocate policies that keep people on their butts and in their basements (like me). You praise policies that destroy work ethic in America and it's economy.

And you have the gall to lecture me or anyone else on Welfare?

I'm sure Cliven Bundy could use the stunt double. Perhaps you'll understand when you're in his shoes instead of passing judgement here on an obscure political board on the internet.

You really believe that it is government policy that is keeping you in your basement? Your angst toward the current administration is genuine. You blame your station in life on politicians in Washington.

Outstanding.

 

[BDBoop]

The dispute started under Clinton....and Obama is eager to escalate it.....mostly because he loves throwing his weight around.

Maybe he can off himself a few crackers in the process. Pretty good bet he's already killed 300 of the man's cattle.

you are a fucking retard who literally knows nothing about this issue.

I'm learning more daily......

It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama.

In all seriousness and honesty: When you always, always say "It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama," I have no way of knowing if it really looks bad - because in your eyes, it always does.

 

[OnePercenter]

Okay. I never said I was perfect, but even I know when to change my views to reality. I promised myself I would never be so stubborn as to be blinded to the facts. Mr. Bundy did break the law. He lost two court cases which mandated he pack up and leave. In 1993, the Federal Government chose to designate the Bunkerville Range area as a habitat for an endangered species of desert tortoise. They told him that he could not have more than 150 head of cattle on that land at any point in time. Yet he chose to continue letting all 1000 of his cows graze on the land. According to the government, he now owes $1.1 million in back grazing fees.

Let's also get another thing straight here. He doesn't own the land. He owned (past tense) the grazing rights to the Bunkerville Allotment. Under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, the government can revoke grazing rights for a set of reasons, including but not limited to circumstances which deplete the grazing area. He claims "preemptive rights" over the land in question, but as I see it, I tend to disagree. Being a Native American, I am inclined to believe that the Native American tribes who lived in that area for well over 3,000 years have a "preeminent right" to that land, not Mr. Bundy, or the Federal Government; but I digress.

In 1998, Clark County purchased the grazing rights to this 250 square mile swath of land and chose to retire them once again for the sake of a desert tortoise. Mr. Bundy contends that only the State of Nevada can solve this issue since it does indeed own the grazing rights. He would be correct. But he also did make threatening statements to government officials. That still doesn't change the fact he broke the law. That also does not excuse the government from its behavior either.

I cannot ignore how the government is handling this issue. They have assaulted protesters and set up "free speech" zones for these protesters. They proceeded to taser Bundy's son in the fracas. My support for Mr. Bundy doesn't hinge on his misconduct, but on how he is being treated by the government. He could have simply up and left, but he didn't. The government could have simply conducted this operation peacefully, not in a heavy handed manner, and without inflaming the surrounding populous plus ultimately Americans across the country. I think both the Federal Government and more ultimately the State of Nevada hold the fate of this entire conflict in their hands.

I am also inclined to believe that if further, more intense violence ensues i.e. gun violence, this could be the exact excuse that Democrats and our President would use to pass some sort of gun control legislation in Congress. Militias are falling for the bait, and any way you slice it, this won't be good for anyone.

That is all. Discuss this as you please.

He's a criminal.

 

[mudwhistle]

you are a fucking retard who literally knows nothing about this issue.

I'm learning more daily......

It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama.

In all seriousness and honesty: When you always, always say "It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama," I have no way of knowing if it really looks bad - because in your eyes, it always does.

Boop, I'm as objective as the next man.

I just don't see these people through rose colored glasses.

 

[BDBoop]

I'm learning more daily......

It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama.

In all seriousness and honesty: When you always, always say "It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama," I have no way of knowing if it really looks bad - because in your eyes, it always does.

Boop, I'm as objective as the next man.

I just don't see these people through rose colored glasses.

Okay. Just aim me at a post where you said something didn't look bad for Obama/Reid. You have the glasses - they just don't happen to be rose-colored. More like coal.

 

[Papageorgio]

Okay. I never said I was perfect, but even I know when to change my views to reality. I promised myself I would never be so stubborn as to be blinded to the facts. Mr. Bundy did break the law. He lost two court cases which mandated he pack up and leave. In 1993, the Federal Government chose to designate the Bunkerville Range area as a habitat for an endangered species of desert tortoise. They told him that he could not have more than 150 head of cattle on that land at any point in time. Yet he chose to continue letting all 1000 of his cows graze on the land. According to the government, he now owes $1.1 million in back grazing fees.

Let's also get another thing straight here. He doesn't own the land. He owned (past tense) the grazing rights to the Bunkerville Allotment. Under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, the government can revoke grazing rights for a set of reasons, including but not limited to circumstances which deplete the grazing area. He claims "preemptive rights" over the land in question, but as I see it, I tend to disagree. Being a Native American, I am inclined to believe that the Native American tribes who lived in that area for well over 3,000 years have a "preeminent right" to that land, not Mr. Bundy, or the Federal Government; but I digress.

In 1998, Clark County purchased the grazing rights to this 250 square mile swath of land and chose to retire them once again for the sake of a desert tortoise. Mr. Bundy contends that only the State of Nevada can solve this issue since it does indeed own the grazing rights. He would be correct. But he also did make threatening statements to government officials. That still doesn't change the fact he broke the law. That also does not excuse the government from its behavior either.

I cannot ignore how the government is handling this issue. They have assaulted protesters and set up "free speech" zones for these protesters. They proceeded to taser Bundy's son in the fracas. My support for Mr. Bundy doesn't hinge on his misconduct, but on how he is being treated by the government. He could have simply up and left, but he didn't. The government could have simply conducted this operation peacefully, not in a heavy handed manner, and without inflaming the surrounding populous plus ultimately Americans across the country. I think both the Federal Government and more ultimately the State of Nevada hold the fate of this entire conflict in their hands.

I am also inclined to believe that if further, more intense violence ensues i.e. gun violence, this could be the exact excuse that Democrats and our President would use to pass some sort of gun control legislation in Congress. Militias are falling for the bait, and any way you slice it, this won't be good for anyone.

That is all. Discuss this as you please.

He's a criminal.

And you're a liar, what's your point?


Sent from my iPad using an Android.

 

[mudwhistle]

In all seriousness and honesty: When you always, always say "It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama," I have no way of knowing if it really looks bad - because in your eyes, it always does.

Boop, I'm as objective as the next man.

I just don't see these people through rose colored glasses.

Okay. Just aim me at a post where you said something didn't look bad for Obama/Reid. You have the glasses - they just don't happen to be rose-colored. More like coal.

I'm looking at things from experience, and being on the inside.

In my line of work a talker isn't worth much. That's all Obama is, a talker.

Johnny Unitas once said "Talk Is Cheap".

Abraham Lincoln once said "You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time."

He also said no man has a good enough memory to be a successful liar. That's why he always uses a teleprompter.

Obama never takes blame for his mistakes. I can't stand a man who can't be humble. And the biggest beef I have with him is he cheats. Even when he doesn't have to. He can't stand playing by the rules.

But the worst part about him is when he lies to us he shows us he doesn't respect us.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I'm learning more daily......

It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama.

In all seriousness and honesty: When you always, always say "It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama," I have no way of knowing if it really looks bad - because in your eyes, it always does.

Boop, I'm as objective as the next man.

I just don't see these people through rose colored glasses.

You believe that you are an objective observer?

Objectively, what is the stupidest thing you have ever posted on these pages?

 

[R.C. Christian]

Her position was only revised after the booze had passed her system long enough to remind her of what a stupid commie bitch she is.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ironic statement is ironic.

How so, TK. I don't live in my grandmother's basement. I have supported myself since I was an adult very successfully. I used the GI bill for education, small business loan, and a home loan. Now retired, I earn I bet three to five times annually the overwhelming number on the Board.

Low blow.

If I want your autobiography I'll ask for it. You're liberal. You've proven to be. Using the GI bill to get an education could be construed as a form of welfare, Jake. Sorry. Moreover, you advocate policies that keep people on their butts and in their basements (like me). You praise policies that destroy work ethic in America and it's economy.

And you have the gall to lecture me or anyone else on Welfare?

I'm sure Cliven Bundy could use the stunt double. Perhaps you'll understand when you're in his shoes instead of passing judgement here on an obscure political board on the internet.

Hey Boy, the GI Bill was not welfare. You earned it by serving in the US Military. Tell, Boy, do you have a dd214? If not, why not? Jake has one, and like mine, it states Honorable. I have little patience with fools like you that have not served, and, more than likely, will not serve.

You claimed to be at least part Native American. Ever been to a Pow-Wow? They always start with a parade of Vets. And no enthnic group in America has as high of a percentage of their people that have served in the military as the Native American community. You certainly seem to be out of step with the people I know in the Native American community.

 

[Old Rocks]

Ironic statement is ironic.

How so, TK. I don't live in my grandmother's basement. I have supported myself since I was an adult very successfully. I used the GI bill for education, small business loan, and a home loan. Now retired, I earn I bet three to five times annually the overwhelming number on the Board.

Low blow.

If I want your autobiography I'll ask for it. You're liberal. You've proven to be. Using the GI bill to get an education could be construed as a form of welfare, Jake. Sorry. Moreover, you advocate policies that keep people on their butts and in their basements (like me). You praise policies that destroy work ethic in America and it's economy.

And you have the gall to lecture me or anyone else on Welfare?

I'm sure Cliven Bundy could use the stunt double. Perhaps you'll understand when you're in his shoes instead of passing judgement here on an obscure political board on the internet.

I understand Bundy's plight quite well. He has trespassed and broke the law for 20 years. And now the bill is coming due. So he calls in a bunch of fruitloops and attempts to start a shooting war. He, and his family will lose. Lose badly, given that there will be no understanding from the government now.

And you, Boy, had better learn to address your elders and betters with more respect. On welfare? And you are a 'Conservative'? Hilarious. I am 70, working 40+ hours a week as an industrial millwright, and into my second year taking classes at a university also. So why cannot you, a young man, get some worthwhile work? Or at least attend a school to learn a skill that earn you a living?

 

[JakeStarkey]

How so, TK. I don't live in my grandmother's basement. I have supported myself since I was an adult very successfully. I used the GI bill for education, small business loan, and a home loan. Now retired, I earn I bet three to five times annually the overwhelming number on the Board.

Low blow.

If I want your autobiography I'll ask for it. You're liberal. You've proven to be. Using the GI bill to get an education could be construed as a form of welfare, Jake. Sorry. Moreover, you advocate policies that keep people on their butts and in their basements (like me). You praise policies that destroy work ethic in America and it's economy.

I understand Bundy's plight quite well. He has trespassed and broke the law for 20 years. And now the bill is coming due. So he calls in a bunch of fruitloops and attempts to start a shooting war. He, and his family will lose. Lose badly, given that there will be no understanding from the government now.

And you, Boy, had better learn to address your elders and betters with more respect. On welfare? And you are a 'Conservative'? Hilarious. I am 70, working 40+ hours a week as an industrial millwright, and into my second year taking classes at a university also. So why cannot you, a young man, get some worthwhile work? Or at least attend a school to learn a skill that earn you a living?

I'm sure Cliven Bundy could use the stunt double. Perhaps you'll understand when you're in his shoes instead of passing judgement here on an obscure political board on the internet.

TK, you are reactionary, and don't whine when you get low balled in return to any of your posting. I served 12 years active duty in the airborne infantry to earn my GI rights: you sponge off your grand mother, which is certainly family welfare. And you have the gall to lecture me or anyone else on Welfare? And you claim to First People status. If your relatives and tribal members realized what you are saying on this board, they would have a serious intervention with you, TK.

Show where I praise policies that keep slumps like you in poverty. You do it by yourself.

You need to grow up, TK. You truly understand very, very little about real life plus showing no respect to those who served to allow your family welfare.

 

[BDBoop]

Low blow.

If I want your autobiography I'll ask for it. You're liberal. You've proven to be. Using the GI bill to get an education could be construed as a form of welfare, Jake. Sorry. Moreover, you advocate policies that keep people on their butts and in their basements (like me). You praise policies that destroy work ethic in America and it's economy.

I understand Bundy's plight quite well. He has trespassed and broke the law for 20 years. And now the bill is coming due. So he calls in a bunch of fruitloops and attempts to start a shooting war. He, and his family will lose. Lose badly, given that there will be no understanding from the government now.

And you, Boy, had better learn to address your elders and betters with more respect. On welfare? And you are a 'Conservative'? Hilarious. I am 70, working 40+ hours a week as an industrial millwright, and into my second year taking classes at a university also. So why cannot you, a young man, get some worthwhile work? Or at least attend a school to learn a skill that earn you a living?

I'm sure Cliven Bundy could use the stunt double. Perhaps you'll understand when you're in his shoes instead of passing judgement here on an obscure political board on the internet.

TK, you are reactionary, and don't whine when you get low balled in return to any of your posting. I served 12 years active duty in the airborne infantry to earn my GI rights: you sponge off your grand mother, which is certainly family welfare. And you have the gall to lecture me or anyone else on Welfare? And you claim to First People status. If your relatives and tribal members realized what you are saying on this board, they would have a serious intervention with you, TK.

Show where I praise policies that keep slumps like you in poverty. You do it by yourself.

You need to grow up, TK. You truly understand very, very little about real life plus showing no respect to those who served to allow your family welfare.

Independent of all the rest of it? Thank you for serving. Vets have a soft spot in my heart.

 

[RandallFlagg]

the heritage of his family ranch dates back to the homestead act by Abe Lincoln

Did his family own title to that land?

Did the government buy the land from his family, or did they just take it from them?

Did he own title to that land his cattle grazed on?

What I heard was his family owned the land until the desert turtle protection was needed and then the govt took oversight of the land? When it should have been the State? Then the story developed to the govt has been euthanising these turtles because there was so many of them so it looks as if he could have a case in court if he would obey the court order. He has to obey the court order.

And that's the part of the story that hasn't been widely told. The US government "owns" 85% of Nevada. The he grazing land was sanctioned as a "restricted zone" after countless court battles (which they "won") against the rancher. big surprise there. So they name it a "sanctuary" for the desert tortoise and finally move the turtle to a "breeding area" near Las Vegas. Now the BLM is killing the turtles due to "overpopulation".

Today the BLM pulled it's "forces" back to deescalate the "situation". There was a better than even chance that in the unfortunate event a shot was fired, there was enough weapons on the other side that a firefight would have ensued.

Don't need another Ruby Ridge or a Waco.

Now, they will wait until the press is gone and they will force their will on those people stupid enough to leave the "1st amendment zones". This, unfortunately, is going to end in bloodshed. It's merely a matter of time.

It is being rumored that Harry Reid and his son-in-law are intending that this land be used for a Chinese Solar company.