My revised position on the Bundy Ranch crisis

[Katzndogz]

Bundy has been paying the state all along.

 

[Papageorgio]

Buddy is in the wrong, I understand the grazing rights issue, however he has ran the legal course and he needs to continue to work through this legally. Escalating this to a violent level is not called for. He should have kept paying the money and it would have strengthened his court case.

That's like paying an insurance company that refuses to pay a claim just because you have a lawsuit against them.

It's bullshit.

Doesn't make any difference once politics becomes involved.

He says he wants to pay the state, but the county commission changed who the money goes to. That is part of the dispute. He doesn't want the money going to the wrong place.

He doesn't get to decide where the money goes, it's a 20 year battle, politics is the side bar, the courts are the legal course. I think the government is being petty and vindictive, however Bundy by standing on his own is in the wrong, he needs to run through the appeals process.


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[tyroneweaver]

some on this forum call bundy an asshole yet, this persons neighbors would hang him for not paying his grazing fees
Bundy seems to be beloved by his neighbors

Makes me wonder who the real asshole is

neat, being beloved is irrelevant in breaking the law.

oh I get it, you're a state brand inspector

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

When I started reading about this, after seeing the sensational footage of the confrontation and the "militia men" references to those who are heeding Bundy's call, I immediately thought that Bundy might be a Mormon. And Fox states that he is a descendant (Nevada officials blast feds over treatment of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy | Fox News) which means he's somewhat of an outlier, probably doesn't attend services anymore. But his heritage is speaking loud and clear.

This explains a lot of how this thing is exponentially escalating to violence. The original Mormons who settled Utah would viciously hang any federal agent who showed up to talk to them about statehood. The militia men in the Rocky Mountains are a tight bunch with their own network. Bundy can pretend that these guys just saw it in the news and came to his aid. But I'm from that part of the country and know better.

Having said all that, my two cents, congratulations TemplarK, on a good post and your discussion of the facts.

 

[Katzndogz]

Just turn the Bundy ranch into this

BBC ON THIS DAY | 4 | 1989: Massacre in Tiananmen Square

See how that works for the US.

 

[tyroneweaver]

Bundy has been paying the state all along.[/QUOTEing]


why did the state start relilnquishing this money to the BLM

 

[Plasmaball]

some on this forum call bundy an asshole yet, this persons neighbors would hang him for not paying his grazing fees
Bundy seems to be beloved by his neighbors

Makes me wonder who the real asshole is

neat, being beloved is irrelevant in breaking the law.

oh I get it, you're a state brand inspector

not paying your fees and ignoring a federal judge is breaking the law moron.
i know facts are hard for people of your ilk.

 

[Dot Com]

Just turn the Bundy ranch into this

BBC ON THIS DAY | 4 | 1989: Massacre in Tiananmen Square

See how that works for the US.

what are you implying crazy cat lady? Spell it out for us non- kool aid drinkers.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

some on this forum call bundy an asshole yet, this persons neighbors would hang him for not paying his grazing fees
Bundy seems to be beloved by his neighbors

Makes me wonder who the real asshole is

neat, being beloved is irrelevant in breaking the law.

oh I get it, you're a state brand inspector

Apparently Bundy's fight has been going on now for over 20 years and he has not been able to settle or compromise.

There are a lot of sites being preserved for wildlife in the Nevada area because of over-ranching and lately, water problems and drought. But the citizens of Nevada threw down the gauntlet when wild horses herds started running through the suburbs of Reno.

When I was there many years ago in Eureka we had a shut-down by the Feds because someone found beer bottles in the mining site that dated back to the mid-1800s. Don't get me started on work stoppages so that a rare breed of owl could mate, nest and hatch their young up around the Idaho border. We had to abide by these sometimes temporary restrictions. We didn't dig in like Bundy. And somehow we managed to not only survive, but thrive.

 

[Howey]

Not that the idiots will read it...

Q+A: Behind the Bundy, BLM battle - Las Vegas Sun News

 

[tyroneweaver]

When I started reading about this, after seeing the sensational footage of the confrontation and the "militia men" references to those who are heeding Bundy's call, I immediately thought that Bundy might be a Mormon. And Fox states that he is a descendant (Nevada officials blast feds over treatment of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy | Fox News) which means he's somewhat of an outlier, probably doesn't attend services anymore. But his heritage is speaking loud and clear.

This explains a lot of how this thing is exponentially escalating to violence. The original Mormons who settled Utah would viciously hang any federal agent who showed up to talk to them about statehood. The militia men in the Rocky Mountains are a tight bunch with their own network. Bundy can pretend that these guys just saw it in the news and came to his aid. But I'm from that part of the country and know better.

Having said all that, my two cents, congratulations TemplarK, on a good post and your discussion of the facts.

my ancestors used to hide high Mormon officials from the federalies in their hay barn, but I don't recall any federals being "vicsiously hanged"
That seems a stretch

 

[mudwhistle]

Buddy is in the wrong, I understand the grazing rights issue, however he has ran the legal course and he needs to continue to work through this legally. Escalating this to a violent level is not called for. He should have kept paying the money and it would have strengthened his court case.

That's like paying an insurance company that refuses to pay a claim just because you have a lawsuit against them.

It's bullshit.

Doesn't make any difference once politics becomes involved.

He says he wants to pay the state, but the county commission changed who the money goes to. That is part of the dispute. He doesn't want the money going to the wrong place.

He doesn't get to decide where the money goes, it's a 20 year battle, politics is the side bar, the courts are the legal course. I think the government is being petty and vindictive, however Bundy by standing on his own is in the wrong, he needs to run through the appeals process.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I know he doesn't get to decide.....and it doesn't matter if he pays......they want him off the land so the Chinese can put up a solar farm.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Just turn the Bundy ranch into this

BBC ON THIS DAY | 4 | 1989: Massacre in Tiananmen Square

See how that works for the US.

WTF? Are you that hard-pressed to come up with a rational comment?

Here, try this, bimbo. Since Bundy is a jack-Mormon...

https://www.lds.org/ensign/2007/09/the-mountain-meadows-massacre?lang=eng

The Mountain Meadows Massacre

 

[Katzndogz]

Bundy has been paying the state all along.[/QUOTEing]


why did the state start relilnquishing this money to the BLM

Why should it? The state charges grazing fees. BLM charges separate grazing fees for the protection of the desert tortoise that the government is killing.

This is all a ruse. If the grazing fees were paid, the fees would be raised to the point where Bundy couldn't pay it. Or they would find some other reason. The federal government wants that land so it can complete the deal with the Chinese.

If the federal government wants your home, the puddles in your driveway will be declared navigable waters as a seasonal riparian activity and your home taken.

EPA?s Proposed Waters of the U.S. Rule: Does It Regulate Puddles? - Environmental Protection Agency | The National Law Review

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

When I started reading about this, after seeing the sensational footage of the confrontation and the "militia men" references to those who are heeding Bundy's call, I immediately thought that Bundy might be a Mormon. And Fox states that he is a descendant (Nevada officials blast feds over treatment of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy | Fox News) which means he's somewhat of an outlier, probably doesn't attend services anymore. But his heritage is speaking loud and clear.

This explains a lot of how this thing is exponentially escalating to violence. The original Mormons who settled Utah would viciously hang any federal agent who showed up to talk to them about statehood. The militia men in the Rocky Mountains are a tight bunch with their own network. Bundy can pretend that these guys just saw it in the news and came to his aid. But I'm from that part of the country and know better.

Having said all that, my two cents, congratulations TemplarK, on a good post and your discussion of the facts.

my ancestors used to hide high Mormon officials from the federalies in their hay barn, but I don't recall any federals being "vicsiously hanged"
That seems a stretch

Where did they do this? Illinois? New York? Not Utah or Nevada. No need. That's why they migrated there, because they were driven out of Illinois.

And since they were run out on a rail, yes they killed any federal agent who came to either sign them up for statehood or try to collect taxes.

In case you missed my other post, read it from Mormon lips about another nasty transgression: The Mountain Meadow Massacre:

This month marks the 150th anniversary of a terrible episode in the history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. On September 11, 1857, some 50 to 60 local militiamen in southern Utah, aided by American Indian allies, massacred about 120 emigrants who were traveling by wagon to California. The horrific crime, which spared only 17 children age six and under, occurred in a highland valley called the Mountain Meadows, roughly 35 miles southwest of Cedar City. The victims, most of them from Arkansas, were on their way to California with dreams of a bright future.

For a century and a half the Mountain Meadows Massacre has shocked and distressed those who have learned of it. The tragedy has deeply grieved the victims’ relatives, burdened the perpetrators’ descendants and Church members generally with sorrow and feelings of collective guilt, unleashed criticism on the Church, and raised painful, difficult questions. How could this have happened? How could members of the Church have participated in such a crime?

Two facts make the case even more difficult to fathom. First, nothing that any of the emigrants purportedly did or said, even if all of it were true, came close to justifying their deaths. Second, the large majority of perpetrators led decent, nonviolent lives before and after the massacre.

As is true with any historical episode, comprehending the events of September 11, 1857, requires understanding the conditions of the time, only a brief summary of which can be shared in the few pages of this magazine article. For a more complete, documented account of the event, readers are referred to the forthcoming book Massacre at Mountain Meadows. 1""""""


They are a no less scrupulous or honorable than your friendly, local Mafia.

 

[natstew]

Okay, just to illustrate how fair the Federal Government is:

My Ancestor, John Stewart, who was married to an Indian woman, served in the First Seminole War under Andrew Jackson. For his services he was awarded 160 acres of land along the Wakulla River in North Florida for his services. After he occupied the land, the Territorial Courts ruled that it belonged to the Apalachicola timber and Land Co. as part of the Forbes Purchase and took it from him, house and all. The Company had traded hatchets, axes, guns, powder, shot, iron kettles, blankets, and worthless glass beads to the local Indians for land that the Indians had no evidence of even owning. The newly established Territorial Court was bought and owned by the Forbes Co.
When it involves land and pits the Government against private citizens, I'll stand with the private citizens every time.

 

[Esmeralda]

Okay, just to illustrate how fair the Federal Government is:

My Ancestor, John Stewart, who was married to an Indian woman, served in the First Seminole War under Andrew Jackson. For his services he was awarded 160 acres of land along the Wakulla River in North Florida for his services. After he occupied the land, the Territorial Courts ruled that it belonged to the Apalachicola timber and Land Co. as part of the Forbes Purchase and took it from him, house and all. The Company had traded hatchets, axes, guns, powder, shot, iron kettles, blankets, and worthless glass beads to the local Indians for land that the Indians had no evidence of even owning. The newly established Territorial Court was bought and owned by the Forbes Co.
When it involves land and pits the Government against private citizens, I'll stand with the private citizens every time.

Unfortunately, this is not 1865. It happened a long time ago and it wasn't fair, but nothing can be done about it now. Bundy doesn't own the land. The courts have repeatedly said he does not have a right to graze cattle on the land. He's breaking today's law. That's all that counts. Try going out on the highway with a 1921 car and driving at 25 miles an hour. You'll get ticketed. Yesterday's laws don't apply today.

 

[Papageorgio]

When I started reading about this, after seeing the sensational footage of the confrontation and the "militia men" references to those who are heeding Bundy's call, I immediately thought that Bundy might be a Mormon. And Fox states that he is a descendant (Nevada officials blast feds over treatment of cattle rancher Cliven Bundy | Fox News) which means he's somewhat of an outlier, probably doesn't attend services anymore. But his heritage is speaking loud and clear.

This explains a lot of how this thing is exponentially escalating to violence. The original Mormons who settled Utah would viciously hang any federal agent who showed up to talk to them about statehood. The militia men in the Rocky Mountains are a tight bunch with their own network. Bundy can pretend that these guys just saw it in the news and came to his aid. But I'm from that part of the country and know better.

Having said all that, my two cents, congratulations TemplarK, on a good post and your discussion of the facts.

my ancestors used to hide high Mormon officials from the federalies in their hay barn, but I don't recall any federals being "vicsiously hanged"
That seems a stretch

Where did they do this? Illinois? New York? Not Utah or Nevada. No need. That's why they migrated there, because they were driven out of Illinois.

And since they were run out on a rail, yes they killed any federal agent who came to either sign them up for statehood or try to collect taxes.

In case you missed my other post, read it from Mormon lips about another nasty transgression: The Mountain Meadow Massacre:

This month marks the 150th anniversary of a terrible episode in the history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. On September 11, 1857, some 50 to 60 local militiamen in southern Utah, aided by American Indian allies, massacred about 120 emigrants who were traveling by wagon to California. The horrific crime, which spared only 17 children age six and under, occurred in a highland valley called the Mountain Meadows, roughly 35 miles southwest of Cedar City. The victims, most of them from Arkansas, were on their way to California with dreams of a bright future.

For a century and a half the Mountain Meadows Massacre has shocked and distressed those who have learned of it. The tragedy has deeply grieved the victims’ relatives, burdened the perpetrators’ descendants and Church members generally with sorrow and feelings of collective guilt, unleashed criticism on the Church, and raised painful, difficult questions. How could this have happened? How could members of the Church have participated in such a crime?

Two facts make the case even more difficult to fathom. First, nothing that any of the emigrants purportedly did or said, even if all of it were true, came close to justifying their deaths. Second, the large majority of perpetrators led decent, nonviolent lives before and after the massacre.

As is true with any historical episode, comprehending the events of September 11, 1857, requires understanding the conditions of the time, only a brief summary of which can be shared in the few pages of this magazine article. For a more complete, documented account of the event, readers are referred to the forthcoming book Massacre at Mountain Meadows. 1""""""


They are a no less scrupulous or honorable than your friendly, local Mafia.

All that bold type, you think you are special or something? Makes you look immature and stupid.
I didn't any of your post, it looks to childish to bother with.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Bundy is neither legally nor morally right.

He is a welfare cheat using our federal lands for his selfish gain.

This is the wrong horse for the militia to ride.

We all know how you hate people on welfare........

I don't hate anybody. But I do dislike when people cheat on welfare, and Bundy is doing just that and hiding behind nonsense.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I nor any of you have enough information to pass judgment on this man or his situation.

We sure do.

Bundy is a welfare cheat.