My revised position on the Bundy Ranch crisis

[mudwhistle]

I believe the son got tased because he went after a k-9 unit which we know is the same as going after a real human cop legal wise.
Furthermore the government handled this fine. It took them 20 years to get to this point. 20 years! This wasnt some rash over reaction. Bundy forced it to boil to this point by " Not listening to any federal law"-his words.
Last we didnt need another thread on this. You could have submitted this in the countless other ones. Way to be narcissistic.

The dispute started under Clinton....and Obama is eager to escalate it.....mostly because he loves throwing his weight around.

Maybe he can off himself a few crackers in the process. Pretty good bet he's already killed 300 of the man's cattle.

you are a fucking retard who literally knows nothing about this issue.

I'm learning more daily......

It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama.

 

[Katzndogz]

Bundy is not claiming that he owns the land, but he has a perfected easement after 140 years of continuous use. Bundy has paid every dime of grazing fees owed the State of Nevada for the use of grazing on the land. 20 years ago, the feds asserted authority over the desert tortoise and began charging grazing fees to protect the tortoise. Last year, federal authorities went on that same land to kill hundreds of tortoises. They have already removed over 50 ranchers with threats and intimidation even when the grazing fees were paid. They just thought up another new law that the ranchers were violating.

The grazing fees became an issue when Harry Reid made a deal with the Chinese to turn that land over to them for a solar panel plant.

The worst part is that the Chinese were already in negotiations with the state of Nevada to build that plant outside of Laughlin Nevada. This would have given employment to the people in Laughlin, Needles California and Bullhead City Arizona. Reid stepped in to offer the Chinese a better deal (with a little payoff no doubt) in Gold Butte. There is no amount of "law" perfume to take away the stink of this swindle.

 

[KissMy]

Yet he chose to continue letting all 1000 of his cows graze on the land. According to the government, he now owes $1.1 million in back grazing fees.

733 head of Bundy's 1,000 head of cattle will cover that $1.1 million grazing fee. The government already took 400 head of cattle from him.

 

[Plasmaball]

The dispute started under Clinton....and Obama is eager to escalate it.....mostly because he loves throwing his weight around.

Maybe he can off himself a few crackers in the process. Pretty good bet he's already killed 300 of the man's cattle.

you are a fucking retard who literally knows nothing about this issue.

I'm learning more daily......

It really looks bad for Harry Reid and Obama.

no its not. You should go grab your gun and fight the feds over this. Im sure the outcome will be great for everyone.

 

[Dot Com]

The land the cattle is on isn't federal. It is State. Which is where Bundy's issue lies I believe, Jake. The bottom line is he has to obey the court order. If he loses in court he has to go back to court or take it to the supreme court but he cannot take the law into his own hands. This isn't the wild west.

What is most disturbing to me is the govt dragging this out. Why choose to do this now? Right before the anniversary of WACO? April 19th? Was that planned? Is is pretty creepy if you ask me.

I feel there should have been more news about this story out of the gate. Because there wasn't alot of news reporting early on - it led to many different stories, speculations about what happened. It was handled very poorly by the govt imo. Bundy hasn't handled it well either. It's a mess.

link? What is it w/ you people and expecting others to "take your word for it"

And "I feel". Feelings have nothing to do w/ this.

 

[Dot Com]

Bundy is not claiming that he owns the land, but he has a perfected easement after 140 years of continuous use. Bundy has paid every dime of grazing fees owed the State of Nevada for the use of grazing on the land. 20 years ago, the feds asserted authority over the desert tortoise and began charging grazing fees to protect the tortoise. Last year, federal authorities went on that same land to kill hundreds of tortoises. They have already removed over 50 ranchers with threats and intimidation even when the grazing fees were paid. They just thought up another new law that the ranchers were violating.

The grazing fees became an issue when Harry Reid made a deal with the Chinese to turn that land over to them for a solar panel plant.

The worst part is that the Chinese were already in negotiations with the state of Nevada to build that plant outside of Laughlin Nevada. This would have given employment to the people in Laughlin, Needles California and Bullhead City Arizona. Reid stepped in to offer the Chinese a better deal (with a little payoff no doubt) in Gold Butte. There is no amount of "law" perfume to take away the stink of this swindle.

your link didn't post-through you old crazy cat lady. Why is that? Where you get all that *cough* "info" from? I have a good idea of where you get it from.

 

[tyroneweaver]

some on this forum call bundy an asshole yet, this persons neighbors would hang him for not paying his grazing fees
Bundy seems to be beloved by his neighbors

Makes me wonder who the real asshole is

 

[mudwhistle]

Bundy is neither legally nor morally right.

He is a welfare cheat using our federal lands for his selfish gain.

This is the wrong horse for the militia to ride.

We all know how you hate people on welfare........

 

[KissMy]

the heritage of his family ranch dates back to the homestead act by Abe Lincoln

Did his family own title to that land?

Did the government buy the land from his family, or did they just take it from them?

Did he own title to that land his cattle grazed on?

What I heard was his family owned the land until the desert turtle protection was needed and then the govt took oversight of the land? When it should have been the State? Then the story developed to the govt has been euthanising these turtles because there was so many of them so it looks as if he could have a case in court if he would obey the court order. He has to obey the court order.

The feds took many farmers land around here including my grandparents land when they decided to build a dam & flood all of it. The government only paid 1/4 of what the land was worth, but that was what farmers had to accept. There was no way to stop them or get them to pay actual cash value back then. Now the state has a law that 1.5 times the value must be paid to take someones land.

 

[Plasmaball]

some on this forum call bundy an asshole yet, this persons neighbors would hang him for not paying his grazing fees
Bundy seems to be beloved by his neighbors

Makes me wonder who the real asshole is

neat, being beloved is irrelevant in breaking the law.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

I nor any of you have enough information to pass judgment on this man or his situation.

 

[Dot Com]

Too bad no one has filed an "incitement to violence" charge agianst the rw media like DrudgeRush. Prolly because the Feds know that any funny biz is going to be put down immediately as it should be. Remember how Beck used to get the low-info rw'ers lathered up to the point of inciting violence? Geez but they're sheeple. Let the desertbillies play their cowboys & injun games. See how far it gets them.

 

[Plasmaball]

I nor any of you have enough information to pass judgment on this man or his situation.

yes we do

 

[mudwhistle]

I nor any of you have enough information to pass judgment on this man or his situation.

yes we do

Your information is coming from compulsive liars, so you really don't know the whole truth.

 

[mudwhistle]

Too bad no one has filed an "incitement to violence" charge agianst the rw media like DrudgeRush. Prolly because the Feds know that any funny biz is going to be put down immediately as it should be. Remember how Beck used to get the low-info rw'ers lathered up to the point of inciting violence? Geez but they're sheeple. Let the desertbillies play their cowboys & injun games. See how far it gets them.

Dude, the violence was already happening when we got into this. The media is simply reporting it.

 

[Dot Com]

Heres why the rw'ers are all frothed-up, their homepage is telling them to be fauxraged:

Drudge Report Recklessly Hypes Confrontation Between Rancher And Federal Government

Drudge's hyping of the dispute is part of a campaign by right-wing media to defend Bundy and fan the flames of the conflict with comparisons to the deadly Ruby Ridge and Waco standoffs of the 1990s. The conflict has also been stoked by affiliates of the Koch-funded Americans for Prosperity group.

On April 9, the conflict between Bundy and BLM was also given top billing on Drudge Report, with references to "Armed Federal Agents," "Snipers" and a "Range War":

 

[Papageorgio]

Buddy is in the wrong, I understand the grazing rights issue, however he has ran the legal course and he needs to continue to work through this legally. Escalating this to a violent level is not called for. He should have kept paying the money and it would have strengthened his court case.

 

[Plasmaball]

I nor any of you have enough information to pass judgment on this man or his situation.

yes we do

Your information is coming from compulsive liars, so you really don't know the whole truth.

yes a federal judge is lying. You are just trolling now. we are done talking

 

[hangover]

Okay. I never said I was perfect, but even I know when to change my views to reality. I promised myself I would never be so stubborn as to be blinded to the facts. Mr. Bundy did break the law. He lost two court cases which mandated he pack up and leave. In 1993, the Federal Government chose to designate the Bunkerville Range area as a habitat for an endangered species of desert tortoise. They told him that he could not have more than 150 head of cattle on that land at any point in time. Yet he chose to continue letting all 1000 of his cows graze on the land. According to the government, he now owes $1.1 million in back grazing fees.

Let's also get another thing straight here. He doesn't own the land. He owned (past tense) the grazing rights to the Bunkerville Allotment. Under the Taylor Grazing Act of 1934, the government can revoke grazing rights for a set of reasons, including but not limited to circumstances which deplete the grazing area. He claims "preemptive rights" over the land in question, but as I see it, I tend to disagree. Being a Native American, I am inclined to believe that the Native American tribes who lived in that area for well over 3,000 years have a "preeminent right" to that land, not Mr. Bundy, or the Federal Government; but I digress.

In 1998, Clark County purchased the grazing rights to this 250 square mile swath of land and chose to retire them once again for the sake of a desert tortoise. Mr. Bundy contends that only the State of Nevada can solve this issue since it does indeed own the grazing rights. He would be correct. But he also did make threatening statements to government officials. That still doesn't change the fact he broke the law. That also does not excuse the government from its behavior either.

I cannot ignore how the government is handling this issue. They have assaulted protesters and set up "free speech" zones for these protesters. They proceeded to taser Bundy's son in the fracas. My support for Mr. Bundy doesn't hinge on his misconduct, but on how he is being treated by the government. He could have simply up and left, but he didn't. The government could have simply conducted this operation peacefully, not in a heavy handed manner, and without inflaming the surrounding populous plus ultimately Americans across the country. I think both the Federal Government and more ultimately the State of Nevada hold the fate of this entire conflict in their hands.

I am also inclined to believe that if further, more intense violence ensues i.e. gun violence, this could be the exact excuse that Democrats and our President would use to pass some sort of gun control legislation in Congress. Militias are falling for the bait, and any way you slice it, this won't be good for anyone.

That is all. Discuss this as you please.

 

[mudwhistle]

Buddy is in the wrong, I understand the grazing rights issue, however he has ran the legal course and he needs to continue to work through this legally. Escalating this to a violent level is not called for. He should have kept paying the money and it would have strengthened his court case.

That's like paying an insurance company that refuses to pay a claim just because you have a lawsuit against them.

It's bullshit.

Doesn't make any difference once politics becomes involved.

He says he wants to pay the state, but the county commission changed who the money goes to. That is part of the dispute. He doesn't want the money going to the wrong place.