Myths, Hypotheses and Facts Concerning the Origin of Peoples

[High_Gravity]

The Muslims want the Middle East to be 100% ....MUSLIM

Exactly, but people who have never been there and experienced the region wouldn't understand that.

It is all over the internet that the Muslims want the Middle East to be 100% Muslim.

There are people here who will tell you thats not true, most of them Westerners.

 

[Coyote]

Right. And it was only after 1967 that they wanted their own country. They didn't call for it when Jordan occupied the land for 19 years.

What ever you choose to call them - they've inhabited that area as long as the Jews, and they deserve a country - it doesn't really matter when they become a people, they are now and they deserve the same recognition as the Israeli's.

If my statement told you anything you would realize by it that they were happy being under Jordanian rule but only when the Israeli's re-captured the land that was illegally taken by Jordan did they start to consider themselves "Palestinians" and want a State of their own. In other words the phrase from the "River to the Sea was coined."

And, my statement - it doesn't matter what they felt almost 60 years ago - what matters is what exists now. They are a people - now.

 

[Coyote]

Right. And it was only after 1967 that they wanted their own country. They didn't call for it when Jordan occupied the land for 19 years.

What ever you choose to call them - they've inhabited that area as long as the Jews, and they deserve a country - it doesn't really matter when they become a people, they are now and they deserve the same recognition as the Israeli's.

This again?

The Jewish people lived in Israel before there were Muslims.

The Jewish people lived in Israel before there were Arabs.

Therefore, the Muslim Arabs who call themselves "Palestinians" have NOT lived there as long as the Jews.

Meh. They are all the same. It makes no difference who was who several thousand years ago. That's the realy myth - that it somehow matters.

The invented Palestinians and the The Invention of the Jewish People - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

What matters is now.

 

[Roudy]

Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".


What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

What you've got is a list of partial quotes without any context. What sort of source is Im Nin'alu

How is that different than the contextless anti-Israeli quotes we see about wiping out Palestinians?

The Palestinians exist here and now - what difference does it make how they came to be or how recent?

What is the arbritary date by which a people can become a people?

You are extremely prejudiced, irrational and biased on this issue, to the point that debating you has become a waste of time. These quotes are available on various legitimate sites. All that this site does is bring it all on one page. If you'd like I can post links to each of those quotes. You of course didn't bother checking the validity of those quotes and instead attacked the source immediately. Such a shame.

Take your blinders off, this is not about any group calling for the destruction of another, but about what the Arabs and Palestinians themselves have said about the Palestinian people and their true identity.

You don't like it? Tough.

 

[Roudy]

What ever you choose to call them - they've inhabited that area as long as the Jews, and they deserve a country - it doesn't really matter when they become a people, they are now and they deserve the same recognition as the Israeli's.

If my statement told you anything you would realize by it that they were happy being under Jordanian rule but only when the Israeli's re-captured the land that was illegally taken by Jordan did they start to consider themselves "Palestinians" and want a State of their own. In other words the phrase from the "River to the Sea was coined."

And, my statement - it doesn't matter what they felt almost 60 years ago - what matters is what exists now. They are a people - now.

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

 

[Coyote]

If my statement told you anything you would realize by it that they were happy being under Jordanian rule but only when the Israeli's re-captured the land that was illegally taken by Jordan did they start to consider themselves "Palestinians" and want a State of their own. In other words the phrase from the "River to the Sea was coined."

And, my statement - it doesn't matter what they felt almost 60 years ago - what matters is what exists now. They are a people - now.

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

They are quotes taken out of context - it's impossible to comment on them without knowing the context.

And again - it doesn't matter - what matters is that they are a people now and that has to be dealt with.

 

[Coyote]

Let us hear what other Arabs have said:

"There is no such country as Palestine. 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented. There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria. 'Palestine' is alien to us. It is the Zionists who introduced it".
- Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, Syrian Arab leader to British Peel Commission, 1937 -

"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".
- Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 -

"It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but Southern Syria".
- Representant of Saudi Arabia at the United Nations, 1956 -

Concerning the Holy Land, the chairman of the Syrian Delegation at the Paris Peace Conference in February 1919 stated:
"The only Arab domination since the Conquest in 635 c.e. hardly lasted, as such, 22 years".


What other Arabs declared after the Six-Day War:

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel".
- Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council -


"You do not represent Palestine as much as we do. Never forget this one point: There is no such thing as a Palestinian people, there is no Palestinian entity, there is only Syria. You are an integral part of the Syrian people, Palestine is an integral part of Syria. Therefore it is we, the Syrian authorities, who are the true representatives of the Palestinian people".
- Syrian dictator Hafez Assad to the PLO leader Yassir Arafat -

What you've got is a list of partial quotes without any context. What sort of source is Im Nin'alu

How is that different than the contextless anti-Israeli quotes we see about wiping out Palestinians?

The Palestinians exist here and now - what difference does it make how they came to be or how recent?

What is the arbritary date by which a people can become a people?

You are extremely prejudiced, irrational and biased on this issue, to the point that debating you has become a waste of time. These quotes are available on various legitimate sites. All that this site does is bring it all on one page. If you'd like I can post links to each of those quotes. You of course didn't bother checking the validity of those quotes and instead attacked the source immediately. Such a shame.

Take your blinders off, this is not about any group calling for the destruction of another, but about what the Arabs and Palestinians themselves have said about the Palestinian people and their true identity.

You don't like it? Tough.

It has nothing to do with whether I "like it" or not - of what relevance is it? What difference does it make? And tell me - are quotes without context - partial quotes - of any value?

As to attacking sources Roudy - glass houses.

 

[Roudy]

And, my statement - it doesn't matter what they felt almost 60 years ago - what matters is what exists now. They are a people - now.

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

They are quotes taken out of context - it's impossible to comment on them without knowing the context.

And again - it doesn't matter - what matters is that they are a people now and that has to be dealt with.

"taken out of context" in what way? You are looking for an escape hatch that doesn't exist. If it's taken out of context that changes the meaning, then yes, you have a point, but when one is simply quoting a short version of what is generally available all over the internet that sufficiently represents the intent of the individual, then your argument fails miserably. One does not have to quote Abraham Lincoln or JFK's entire speech for others to get the gist of it.

It's pretty obvious you are too biased on this matter for one to have a logical and rational discussion with you.

 

[Roudy]

And, my statement - it doesn't matter what they felt almost 60 years ago - what matters is what exists now. They are a people - now.

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

They are quotes taken out of context - it's impossible to comment on them without knowing the context.

And again - it doesn't matter - what matters is that they are a people now and that has to be dealt with.

Ha ha. I remember not too long ago you posted something without even a link and you said "assume it's true and from a reliable source, let's just discuss for a moment".

What a fraud. The hypocrisy is bewildering.

 

[sealadaigh]

Why don't you people stop fighting and learn to live with each other?

The Muslims want the Middle East to be 100% ....MUSLIM

why do i always read about thriving and flourishing jewish communities that co-existed amicably and with a mutual respect in the mideast and north africa before the creation of the state of israel?

why are jews always the outcasts, or so they allege, in every community to which they move when almost all other immigrant and minority groups achieve a general acceptance after a few generations, even though the differences between these groups and the native population at the time is far, far greater than that between immigrant jewish populations and the native populations of the time?

america seems to be an example of this, not that it is a utopia by any means, but most ethnic groups are celebrated without any coercion really on their part.

 

[Coyote]

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

They are quotes taken out of context - it's impossible to comment on them without knowing the context.

And again - it doesn't matter - what matters is that they are a people now and that has to be dealt with.

"taken out of context" in what way? You are looking for an escape hatch that doesn't exist. If it's taken out of context that changes the meaning, then yes, you have a point, but when one is simply quoting a short version of what is generally available all over the internet that sufficiently represents the intent of the individual, then your argument fails miserably. One does not have to quote Abraham Lincoln or JFK's entire speech for others to get the gist of it.

It's pretty obvious you are too biased on this matter for one to have a logical and rational discussion with you.

Let me give you an example:
"There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not".


What is the entire quote? I googled - and two pages later still could not find it. In fact, I only found that fragment in website after website claiming the Palestinians aren't real people.

 

[Coyote]

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

They are quotes taken out of context - it's impossible to comment on them without knowing the context.

And again - it doesn't matter - what matters is that they are a people now and that has to be dealt with.

Ha ha. I remember not too long ago you posted something without even a link and you said "assume it's true and from a reliable source, let's just discuss for a moment".

What a fraud. The hypocrisy is bewildering.

I did that as a favor to another poster here who wanted to open that discussion without a prejudicial link. And for the record, the poster was not "anti-Israeli".

 

[sealadaigh]

If my statement told you anything you would realize by it that they were happy being under Jordanian rule but only when the Israeli's re-captured the land that was illegally taken by Jordan did they start to consider themselves "Palestinians" and want a State of their own. In other words the phrase from the "River to the Sea was coined."

And, my statement - it doesn't matter what they felt almost 60 years ago - what matters is what exists now. They are a people - now.

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

five or six out of context quotes, no matter by whom, prove nothing.

there was a time, when most of the world's scientists believed the sun revolved around the earth. the earth did not begin to revolve around the sun just because keppler and galileo said it did.

 

[Roudy]

And, my statement - it doesn't matter what they felt almost 60 years ago - what matters is what exists now. They are a people - now.

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

five or six out of context quotes, no matter by whom, prove nothing.

there was a time, when most of the world's scientists believed the sun revolved around the earth. the earth did not begin to revolve around the sun just because keppler and galileo said it did.

Put up or shut up. If those quotes are taken out of context to change their meaning or intent, then put it up, otherwise shut the anti semetic pie hole with the "Jews have been outcasts" garbage that is straight out of some Islamist or neo Nazi rally.

 

[patrickcaturday]

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

five or six out of context quotes, no matter by whom, prove nothing.

there was a time, when most of the world's scientists believed the sun revolved around the earth. the earth did not begin to revolve around the sun just because keppler and galileo said it did.

Put up or shut up. If those quotes are taken out of context to change their meaning or intent, then put it up, otherwise shut the anti semetic pie hole with the "Jews have been outcasts" garbage that is straight out of some Islamist or neo Nazi rally.

Do you have any idea what context means !!!

 

[Roudy]

Put up or shut up. If those quotes are taken out of context to change their meaning or intent, then put it up, otherwise shut the anti semetic pie hole with the "Jews have been outcasts" garbage that is straight out of some Islamist or neo Nazi rally.

Do you have any idea what context means !!!

Sure I do. I don't think YOU do, however, sock of seal.

 

[Auteur]

The rather large hole in this logic is that whether the Palestinians are classified as a "people" in the sense of sovereignty, national sentiment, or similar measure, they were the ones living the the area when this project started, and indeed had for a very long time.

They didn't ask for large scale Jewish immigration, it was forced upon them. If you think democracy and self-determination are BS, and colonialism is quite OK, then you are not going to be concerned with the grippings of a bunch of natives- and you will have laid your cards on the table re your political and racial attitudes.

No amount of rationalizing based on presumed national feelings of Palestinians is going to justify their swamping by immigration, and then their expulsion and expropriation. They might have chosen anarchy as a way of life, with no political associations (don't laugh, there are prominent Americans urging pretty much this right now in their own country), and that still would not have meant it OK to expell them.

 

[Roudy]

The rather large hole in this logic is that whether the Palestinians are classified as a "people" in the sense of sovereignty, national sentiment, or similar measure, they were the ones living the the area when this project started, and indeed had for a very long time.

They didn't ask for large scale Jewish immigration, it was forced upon them. If you think democracy and self-determination are BS, and colonialism is quite OK, then you are not going to be concerned with the grippings of a bunch of natives- and you will have laid your cards on the table re your political and racial attitudes.

No amount of rationalizing based on presumed national feelings of Palestinians is going to justify their swamping by immigration, and then their expulsion and expropriation. They might have chosen anarchy as a way of life, with no political associations (don't laugh, there are prominent Americans urging pretty much this right now in their own country), and that still would not have meant it OK to expell them.

Except "they" aren't really a people or the owners of the land, just a bunch of Arabs that got what they wanted, and after they got it, decided it wasn't enough and attacked the newly formed Jewish state. Jordan is Palestine.

 

[Hossfly]

The rather large hole in this logic is that whether the Palestinians are classified as a "people" in the sense of sovereignty, national sentiment, or similar measure, they were the ones living the the area when this project started, and indeed had for a very long time.

They didn't ask for large scale Jewish immigration, it was forced upon them. If you think democracy and self-determination are BS, and colonialism is quite OK, then you are not going to be concerned with the grippings of a bunch of natives- and you will have laid your cards on the table re your political and racial attitudes.

No amount of rationalizing based on presumed national feelings of Palestinians is going to justify their swamping by immigration, and then their expulsion and expropriation. They might have chosen anarchy as a way of life, with no political associations (don't laugh, there are prominent Americans urging pretty much this right now in their own country), and that still would not have meant it OK to expell them.

I would imagine that Auteur must think that Churchill plus the British Officials in the area must have been seeing things when they said that the Arabs came in droves from their poor surrounding countries when the Jews had jobs for them. Auteur sounds like she lives in Europe, perhaps England (she could also be a Muslim herself for all we know), and she must be cognizant of the fact that many Muslims have hightailed it to Europe for the jobs that there impoverished countries can't provide. We here in the U.S. have seen our population change to the extent that not only do we have many Hispanics who have crossed our southern border for jobs, but we also have gotten those from Muslim countries who have felt that their chances of doing better in life were higher here than the countries of their origin. Maybe Auteur has another explanation as to why the Muslims have been leaving their original countries and going to Europe and the Western Hamisphere.

 

[sealadaigh]

They are a people who are lying about their past and the history of the region, and those quotes by Arabs and Palestinians themselves prove that. And that's what this thread is about.

five or six out of context quotes, no matter by whom, prove nothing.

there was a time, when most of the world's scientists believed the sun revolved around the earth. the earth did not begin to revolve around the sun just because keppler and galileo said it did.

Put up or shut up. If those quotes are taken out of context to change their meaning or intent, then put it up, otherwise shut the anti semetic pie hole with the "Jews have been outcasts" garbage that is straight out of some Islamist or neo Nazi rally.

i find it a bit ironic, although certainly not entirely unexpected from a person of your caliber that, on a topic questioning the accuracy and context of some quotes you have produced, you would respond by taking one of my posts out of context and twist it to serve your ends.

here is exactly what i said..."why are jews always the outcasts, or so they allege, in every community to which they move..."

the "they" in the above does not refer to "some islamist or neo-nazi rally" but instead to organisations such as the World Jewish Congress and the Anti-Defamation League, to name a couple among many, who see swastikas in children's galoshes ads and nazi storm troopers in cloud formations.

bluster may serve briefly as a substitute for intelligence but it wears thin quickly. yours is become quite threadbare.