NBC poll: 71% of millennials want a 3rd political party

[Pogo]

That only sounds good IF you have a state with a big city. I don't have a big city at all, total population 730k for the entire state. Basically what you are saying is because I live in the fucking arctic, my political opinions are irrelevant and don't matter to the nation. When you say shit like that, I have zero desire to be part of the nation; why should I when just LA alone can overrule my /entire/ states interest - and especially since ya'll fruit loops down in the lower 48 have /zero/ clue what it's like to live in Alaska.

Actually I said nothing specific about Alaska at all, nor do I have any basis to. Nor do I discount the votes of Alaskans or rural dwellers, of which I'm one myself. Rather I described how in a POTUS election any voter who doesn't happen to have joined with the plurality of votes in their state, INCLUDING Alaska and the other 56 states, has their vote tossed in the shitcan and ignored. That's as true in Alaska as it is in Texas or anywhere else.

I think you have some kind of Alaska complex going on.

Lower 48'ers do shit like, ohhhh we're gonna have a petition to "save the bears" and they get their sigs and use their representative power to fuck, and I do mean royally fuck, our Alaska Natives, who rely on that bear they kill to feed their entire fucking village for the winter. Oh but you saved five bears! Also, caused Alaskan's to have to pay to ship a fuck ton of food out, destroyed a traditional native hunting trip or five that has sustained and bonded these villagers together since before Alaska even belonged to Russia, and caused stress and discontent between Alaskan/US government officials and the Tribal Council's. And none of you lower 48 fucks will ever know, nor give two shits, because you got your self-feels for "saving the bears."

And QED, there it is. You took some exit in a completely different direction. Nothing about the WTA-EC has diddly to do with bears, and vice versa.

THIS shit is /exactly/ why states had their own powers, and why they are given a fucking voice in how the country is run, because /THEY/ know damn well better what their rural farmer/arctic/plains/native/fishing/oil/coal state needs then some fucker in a skyscraper in a sub-tropic state trying to virtue signal about "global warming" or other perhaps well intentioned, but completely uneducated and thus FAILED, ideals about "utopia."

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....... hope you find your way back....

 

[John Shaw]

I gotta run, but I do want to agree to a point there Pogo - states should be doing it Maine style.

However, getting rid of the EC would only essentially eliminate /my/ vote (Alaska) because my entire state couldn't make a drop in the ocean of say - even though the decisions made in DC can totally mother fuck my state in an instant (see Global Warming, Anwar, EPA, Parks & Rec, Military Spending, War, etc.) there no way I will /ever/ vote nor support Alaska being abused (yet again) by the more populated lower 48 fucks who have /zero/ give a shit about my life and how I live in Alaska - No way in hell. And damn straight my state ain't the only one who fears NY, CA, TX, and WAST taking over control of this country and telling /them/ how they "supposta" live.

The argument here is a non-starter; "eliminating my vote because it couldn't make a drop in the ocean" is simply whining about being on the short end of a majority rule vote. That's irrelevant. If the majority did not prevail --- there would be no point in having a vote at all. But even in a minority vote that doesn't prevail, at least that minority gets a voice --- which the EC WTA system systematically denies, as already laid out.

The various state concerns you cite are exactly what your Congressional representatives are for.

For the record I don't support a Maine/Nebraska system; all that does is reduce the same problem to a slightly smaller scale; the Congressional Districts of those states still use a WTA system, effectively disenfranchising everybody who didn't vote with the majority.

What we have here is basically a Same Old Thing system designed to perpetuate Same Old Thing. That's why each and every election we get ----- well you get the idea.

That only sounds good IF you have a state with a big city. I don't have a big city at all, total population 730k for the entire state. Basically what you are saying is because I live in the fucking arctic, my political opinions are irrelevant and don't matter to the nation. When you say shit like that, I have zero desire to be part of the nation; why should I when just LA alone can overrule my /entire/ states interest - and especially since ya'll fruit loops down in the lower 48 have /zero/ clue what it's like to live in Alaska. Lower 48'ers do shit like, ohhhh we're gonna have a petition to "save the bears" and they get their sigs and use their representative power to fuck, and I do mean royally fuck, our Alaska Natives, who rely on that bear they kill to feed their entire fucking village for the year. Oh but you saved five bears! Also, caused Alaskan's to have to pay to ship a fuck ton of food out, destroyed a traditional native hunting trip or five that has sustained and bonded these villagers together since before Alaska even belonged to Russia, and caused stress and discontent between Alaskan/US government officials and the Tribal Council's. And none of you lower 48 fucks will ever know, nor give two shits, because you got your self-feels for "saving the bears."

THIS shit is /exactly/ why states had their own powers, and why they are given a fucking voice in how the country is run, because /THEY/ know damn well better what their rural farmer/arctic/plains/native/fishing/oil/coal state needs then some fucker in a skyscraper in a sub-tropic state trying to virtue signal about "global warming" or other perhaps well intentioned, but completely uneducated and thus FAILED, ideals about "utopia."

How are the women in Alaska? I know the suicide rate is off the charts high. Sounds depressing. And that's coming from someone who lives in the dismal midwest.

Unfortunately we do have suicide rates and we have sexual & physical assault.

The suicide rate thing is I think indicative to our cold climate, isolation, and small population. Take a college kid in Fairbanks Alaska (second largest city, population 33k) So this guy is having a rough time, maybe he's got SAD or depression or a mental disorder, his entire school ostracizes him because he's gay, his parents are abusive, or maybe just because the "cool kids" didn't like him, whatever the reason. Everyone knows each other in Fairbanks, especially on the college campus right, and there is no where for him to go to escape that "isolation" to "start over" so to speak The next "city" over is what Fox, population 400, no college "escape", no night life, nothing to do but wallow in your depression in the pitch black winter (get maybe 4 hours of sunlight in the winter) and a crap ton of folks just can't hack it. Look at the stats for military family suicide as well, we're big military, you get kids from the lower 48 being implanted in the arctic circle, it's cold, dark, lonely; they just lost all their friends /again/ and now they're in a damned ice box. They HATE it, and no one cares, military parents expect him/her to suck it up, there's no one that understands, etc. Can't hack it. I'm sure other states have their own "unique" situations that effect suicide rates (they have crime, gangs, whatever for example), up here it's isolation, darkness, the bone chilling cold (-40F in Fairbanks is "typical")

The problem on the assault stuff (physical and sexual) is honestly that in the PC world no one can say shit without everyone saying they're "racist" because we are white... The native villages live under Tribal Rule, they are "traditional" okay, they believe that women are kind of property (it's not so bad as like Muslim, but it's a hard live out there in the middle of no where with no toilets, no electricity, no heat, limited food (they subsistence for their food) but you end up with stuff like a village of 50 people, they're all family there; when uncle gets drunk and beats the shit out of his wife, they deal with it "in house" and our police get shit but a report "Uncle X slapped Aunt Y" - it goes into the national crime stats as physical assault, but we don't punish the guy, we don't have any say in how he's "retrained" not to do that, nope, it gets a firm talking to (from elders who tend to think it's no big deal because that's how it's always been) and then it happens again when Uncle X gets drunk again... Nothing Alaskan's can do about it, if the fucking Feds would let us report that shit on a different schedule we'd be rock bottom on the listings vs other states, but they can't of course because "discrimination" ~shrug~ None of the tourists care, the oil workers don't care, the military doesn't really care, so it's only folks trying to make a political point that actually like "hold it against" Alaska. It's just like Illinois gets sunk by Chicago, except folks can more easily understand crime rates being high because of a big city, vs crime rates being high because of tribal council decisions and indifference. (And for the record, the native women in the villages don't seem to care if they get beat up, it's like tradition over "women's rights" out there because honestly what the fuck does the ability to work do for a woman in a village of 40? What good does the "right to vote" do for a woman who's ruled by an elder? And why push for "progress" or "modern living" when it brings you useless crap like flushing toilets that freeze every winter and spill shit all over your floor? They like 'some' modern stuff, snow machines, 2x4 houses, propane heating, but these folks don't have electricity, typically no plumbing, there's no in or out access for these folks (dog sled was supposedly upgraded to snow machine by the US gov, but you still can't get to the next village unless you're gonna ride for 200+ miles, and then a dog team is way better because they actually can sense thin ice over a river and shit)

But yea, that stuff, and a ton more, is just idk stuff that lower 48 people will never understand nor even care to understand. They're just worried about their little utopian fantasies of the "perfect world" where everyone has all the modern comforts of Starbucks and Macy's - no fucking clue that some folks don't /want/ that shit.

EDIT - and for the record, I can't even talk here, I've lived up here my entire 44 years, I do not live with them, I'm just an "honorary member" of a tribe by chance. Some of the decisions /my/ elder makes are fucking bat shit crazy imo, but you don't question your elders in the tribe, you just don't. You put in your statement/opinion/advice then nod and smile when they make the decision or you get the fuck out of the tribe; those are your options. Follow or leave.


And as for the women, depends where you go. The "city" chicks, like me, run the gambit. Mostly conservative views, though not way back to not working exactly. My town is wealthy generals and police officers, I'd say half of us are stay at home mom types. A lot of the chicks are hup hup about native art and crap (come in with the military fam and get all worked up about the "local" culture and such - like my mom HAD to have a native midwife and stuff.) There's not a hell of a lot of idk "party shit" going on, I mean there's lots of drinking and pot, but more folks are into outdoors shit; hunting, fishing, skiing, camping. Outdoorsy stuff. I like the chicks, they're still bat shit emo, but better than lower 48 chicks by far - as long as you like em fish belly white or native olive

Damn ... that is some crazy shit. Didn't know there were natives who still lived like that.

I had a friend who lived there for like 2 years. I think he lived in Juno though. Moved back to Cincinnati a few years back, then to Indy. He was a weatherman.

 

[EverCurious]

That only sounds good IF you have a state with a big city. I don't have a big city at all, total population 730k for the entire state. Basically what you are saying is because I live in the fucking arctic, my political opinions are irrelevant and don't matter to the nation. When you say shit like that, I have zero desire to be part of the nation; why should I when just LA alone can overrule my /entire/ states interest - and especially since ya'll fruit loops down in the lower 48 have /zero/ clue what it's like to live in Alaska.

Actually I said nothing specific about Alaska at all, nor do I have any basis to. Nor do I discount the votes of Alaskans or rural dwellers, of which I'm one myself. Rather I described how in a POTUS election any voter who doesn't happen to have joined with the plurality of votes in their state, INCLUDING Alaska and the other 56 states, has their vote tossed in the shitcan and ignored. That's as true in Alaska as it is in Texas or anywhere else.

I think you have some kind of Alaska complex going on.

Lower 48'ers do shit like, ohhhh we're gonna have a petition to "save the bears" and they get their sigs and use their representative power to fuck, and I do mean royally fuck, our Alaska Natives, who rely on that bear they kill to feed their entire fucking village for the winter. Oh but you saved five bears! Also, caused Alaskan's to have to pay to ship a fuck ton of food out, destroyed a traditional native hunting trip or five that has sustained and bonded these villagers together since before Alaska even belonged to Russia, and caused stress and discontent between Alaskan/US government officials and the Tribal Council's. And none of you lower 48 fucks will ever know, nor give two shits, because you got your self-feels for "saving the bears."

And QED, there it is. You took some exit in a completely different direction. Nothing about the WTA-EC has diddly to do with bears, and vice versa.

THIS shit is /exactly/ why states had their own powers, and why they are given a fucking voice in how the country is run, because /THEY/ know damn well better what their rural farmer/arctic/plains/native/fishing/oil/coal state needs then some fucker in a skyscraper in a sub-tropic state trying to virtue signal about "global warming" or other perhaps well intentioned, but completely uneducated and thus FAILED, ideals about "utopia."

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....... hope you find your way back....

You prove my point /perfectly/ son. You have no clue how we live, nor do you really even care how we live, and when you go vote you don't think about /us/ nor any other state's needs/interests/reality/life style when you push that button. That's a problem when it massively changes how these "fly over" states operate. When you [the general you here] do the "right thing" by for example, something to do with air quality, you vote based on your big city problems of smog and shit, totally understandable for /you/ However, in Alaska that means that {real story here, but paraphrased of course} Fairbanks gets an EPA notice that the particulate count was too high so they can't heat their houses with firewood - Fairbanks whines to the EPA, dude we don't have any other way to heat our houses, the EPA asshat (who lives in say San Francisco) says "Not my problem, deal with it" and our Fairbanks mayor says to the residents "I guess we freeze..." Meanwhile, another group of asshats are blocking the NG line to Fairbanks to protect natural habitat, without the NG line Fairbanks folks don't really have another way to heat their homes so "thanks asshats." The shit stupid part is that the air particulates are only high for cold snaps in fucking January/February - the rest of the entire year everything's fine. There is no fucking compromise though because the feds only give a shit about the "magic number" not the "reality."

And for the record, yes, I do have an Alaska complex. I've watched the lower 48 and feds fuck my state over and over and over for decades. I get sick of it, angry about it even. It's not right, nor fair, so I bitch.

 

[EverCurious]

I gotta run, but I do want to agree to a point there Pogo - states should be doing it Maine style.

However, getting rid of the EC would only essentially eliminate /my/ vote (Alaska) because my entire state couldn't make a drop in the ocean of say - even though the decisions made in DC can totally mother fuck my state in an instant (see Global Warming, Anwar, EPA, Parks & Rec, Military Spending, War, etc.) there no way I will /ever/ vote nor support Alaska being abused (yet again) by the more populated lower 48 fucks who have /zero/ give a shit about my life and how I live in Alaska - No way in hell. And damn straight my state ain't the only one who fears NY, CA, TX, and WAST taking over control of this country and telling /them/ how they "supposta" live.

The argument here is a non-starter; "eliminating my vote because it couldn't make a drop in the ocean" is simply whining about being on the short end of a majority rule vote. That's irrelevant. If the majority did not prevail --- there would be no point in having a vote at all. But even in a minority vote that doesn't prevail, at least that minority gets a voice --- which the EC WTA system systematically denies, as already laid out.

The various state concerns you cite are exactly what your Congressional representatives are for.

For the record I don't support a Maine/Nebraska system; all that does is reduce the same problem to a slightly smaller scale; the Congressional Districts of those states still use a WTA system, effectively disenfranchising everybody who didn't vote with the majority.

What we have here is basically a Same Old Thing system designed to perpetuate Same Old Thing. That's why each and every election we get ----- well you get the idea.

That only sounds good IF you have a state with a big city. I don't have a big city at all, total population 730k for the entire state. Basically what you are saying is because I live in the fucking arctic, my political opinions are irrelevant and don't matter to the nation. When you say shit like that, I have zero desire to be part of the nation; why should I when just LA alone can overrule my /entire/ states interest - and especially since ya'll fruit loops down in the lower 48 have /zero/ clue what it's like to live in Alaska. Lower 48'ers do shit like, ohhhh we're gonna have a petition to "save the bears" and they get their sigs and use their representative power to fuck, and I do mean royally fuck, our Alaska Natives, who rely on that bear they kill to feed their entire fucking village for the year. Oh but you saved five bears! Also, caused Alaskan's to have to pay to ship a fuck ton of food out, destroyed a traditional native hunting trip or five that has sustained and bonded these villagers together since before Alaska even belonged to Russia, and caused stress and discontent between Alaskan/US government officials and the Tribal Council's. And none of you lower 48 fucks will ever know, nor give two shits, because you got your self-feels for "saving the bears."

THIS shit is /exactly/ why states had their own powers, and why they are given a fucking voice in how the country is run, because /THEY/ know damn well better what their rural farmer/arctic/plains/native/fishing/oil/coal state needs then some fucker in a skyscraper in a sub-tropic state trying to virtue signal about "global warming" or other perhaps well intentioned, but completely uneducated and thus FAILED, ideals about "utopia."

How are the women in Alaska? I know the suicide rate is off the charts high. Sounds depressing. And that's coming from someone who lives in the dismal midwest.

Unfortunately we do have suicide rates and we have sexual & physical assault.

The suicide rate thing is I think indicative to our cold climate, isolation, and small population. Take a college kid in Fairbanks Alaska (second largest city, population 33k) So this guy is having a rough time, maybe he's got SAD or depression or a mental disorder, his entire school ostracizes him because he's gay, his parents are abusive, or maybe just because the "cool kids" didn't like him, whatever the reason. Everyone knows each other in Fairbanks, especially on the college campus right, and there is no where for him to go to escape that "isolation" to "start over" so to speak The next "city" over is what Fox, population 400, no college "escape", no night life, nothing to do but wallow in your depression in the pitch black winter (get maybe 4 hours of sunlight in the winter) and a crap ton of folks just can't hack it. Look at the stats for military family suicide as well, we're big military, you get kids from the lower 48 being implanted in the arctic circle, it's cold, dark, lonely; they just lost all their friends /again/ and now they're in a damned ice box. They HATE it, and no one cares, military parents expect him/her to suck it up, there's no one that understands, etc. Can't hack it. I'm sure other states have their own "unique" situations that effect suicide rates (they have crime, gangs, whatever for example), up here it's isolation, darkness, the bone chilling cold (-40F in Fairbanks is "typical")

The problem on the assault stuff (physical and sexual) is honestly that in the PC world no one can say shit without everyone saying they're "racist" because we are white... The native villages live under Tribal Rule, they are "traditional" okay, they believe that women are kind of property (it's not so bad as like Muslim, but it's a hard live out there in the middle of no where with no toilets, no electricity, no heat, limited food (they subsistence for their food) but you end up with stuff like a village of 50 people, they're all family there; when uncle gets drunk and beats the shit out of his wife, they deal with it "in house" and our police get shit but a report "Uncle X slapped Aunt Y" - it goes into the national crime stats as physical assault, but we don't punish the guy, we don't have any say in how he's "retrained" not to do that, nope, it gets a firm talking to (from elders who tend to think it's no big deal because that's how it's always been) and then it happens again when Uncle X gets drunk again... Nothing Alaskan's can do about it, if the fucking Feds would let us report that shit on a different schedule we'd be rock bottom on the listings vs other states, but they can't of course because "discrimination" ~shrug~ None of the tourists care, the oil workers don't care, the military doesn't really care, so it's only folks trying to make a political point that actually like "hold it against" Alaska. It's just like Illinois gets sunk by Chicago, except folks can more easily understand crime rates being high because of a big city, vs crime rates being high because of tribal council decisions and indifference. (And for the record, the native women in the villages don't seem to care if they get beat up, it's like tradition over "women's rights" out there because honestly what the fuck does the ability to work do for a woman in a village of 40? What good does the "right to vote" do for a woman who's ruled by an elder? And why push for "progress" or "modern living" when it brings you useless crap like flushing toilets that freeze every winter and spill shit all over your floor? They like 'some' modern stuff, snow machines, 2x4 houses, propane heating, but these folks don't have electricity, typically no plumbing, there's no in or out access for these folks (dog sled was supposedly upgraded to snow machine by the US gov, but you still can't get to the next village unless you're gonna ride for 200+ miles, and then a dog team is way better because they actually can sense thin ice over a river and shit)

But yea, that stuff, and a ton more, is just idk stuff that lower 48 people will never understand nor even care to understand. They're just worried about their little utopian fantasies of the "perfect world" where everyone has all the modern comforts of Starbucks and Macy's - no fucking clue that some folks don't /want/ that shit.

EDIT - and for the record, I can't even talk here, I've lived up here my entire 44 years, I do not live with them, I'm just an "honorary member" of a tribe by chance. Some of the decisions /my/ elder makes are fucking bat shit crazy imo, but you don't question your elders in the tribe, you just don't. You put in your statement/opinion/advice then nod and smile when they make the decision or you get the fuck out of the tribe; those are your options. Follow or leave.


And as for the women, depends where you go. The "city" chicks, like me, run the gambit. Mostly conservative views, though not way back to not working exactly. My town is wealthy generals and police officers, I'd say half of us are stay at home mom types. A lot of the chicks are hup hup about native art and crap (come in with the military fam and get all worked up about the "local" culture and such - like my mom HAD to have a native midwife and stuff.) There's not a hell of a lot of idk "party shit" going on, I mean there's lots of drinking and pot, but more folks are into outdoors shit; hunting, fishing, skiing, camping. Outdoorsy stuff. I like the chicks, they're still bat shit emo, but better than lower 48 chicks by far - as long as you like em fish belly white or native olive

Damn ... that is some crazy shit. Didn't know there were natives who still lived like that.

I had a friend who lived there for like 2 years. I think he lived in Juno though. Moved back to Cincinnati a few years back, then to Indy. He was a weatherman.

Heh the funny part is that the Natives have "upgraded" soooo much the last say ten years, and yet, they still don't have any cars, have no access all winter, can't even /fly/ into some of these places (they might have river boat only access, or only access via snow machine/dog sled/four wheeler) There are places in Alaska where you can stand on a mountain top and there is literally not another soul as far as the eye can see. They don't mind though, hell a lot of the elders want it to stay how it is, they don't want the change, the influence of "modern comfort" because then the kids leave the village, the culture fades away, the village disappears...

 

[Pogo]

You prove my point /perfectly/ son. You have no clue how we live, nor do you really even care how we live, and when you go vote you don't think about /us/ nor any other state's needs/interests/reality/life style when you push that button.

Once AGAIN nothing I have posted was about "Alaska" in any way shape or form, nor do I think I've ever posted anything about Alaska at all. I've made no claim to opine on how you live or how you do anything. And I know for damn sure I've never voted for anybody running for an Alaskan office and I have no Alaskan representatives nor is it my place to. It's actually one of five states I've never even been to.

Apparently you're incapable of focusing on any topic without steering it back to whining about Alaska.
Sucks to be you.

 

[Synthaholic]

Then pick one. No one is stopping them

^^^ Typical dishonesty.

 

[Synthaholic]

I don't want t third Party, I want a Parliamentary system.

 

[Avatar4321]

Then pick one. No one is stopping them

^^^ Typical dishonesty.

Who is stopping you from voting for a third party? I did last year without any problem.

 

[Pogo]

Then pick one. No one is stopping them

^^^ Typical dishonesty.

Who is stopping you from voting for a third party? I did last year without any problem.

Without any results too.

Somewhere around 20% of the electorate voted for Ross Perot in 1992. They got zero too.

 

[ColonelAngus]

ColonelAngus Poll: 71% of millenials are twats.

 

[Synthaholic]

Then pick one. No one is stopping them

^^^ Typical dishonesty.

Who is stopping you from voting for a third party? I did last year without any problem.

Oh, it's not dishonesty, just stupidity. Or ignorance.

 

[EverCurious]

You prove my point /perfectly/ son. You have no clue how we live, nor do you really even care how we live, and when you go vote you don't think about /us/ nor any other state's needs/interests/reality/life style when you push that button.

Once AGAIN nothing I have posted was about "Alaska" in any way shape or form, nor do I think I've ever posted anything about Alaska at all. I've made no claim to opine on how you live or how you do anything. And I know for damn sure I've never voted for anybody running for an Alaskan office and I have no Alaskan representatives nor is it my place to. It's actually one of five states I've never even been to.

Apparently you're incapable of focusing on any topic without steering it back to whining about Alaska.
Sucks to be you.

No, but you did try to argue (or at least comment against my argument against) "PV is better than EC because it should be majority rules/true democracy." Majority rules means that Alaskan's needs/opinions/policial views are completely ignored. We simply do not have the population to be heard over even a single large lower 48 city, and Alaska is just ONE example, there's another 44 states who will be put in the exact same position of having no voice if PV is instated. CA, WA, TX, FL, NY will direct the /entire/ nation, and they are /not/ going to consider the other 45 states needs at all - human nature is selfish and self absorbed. That's why the EC is better, because then each individual, and unique, state, regardless of population, has a voice.

 

[Markle]

I don't want t third Party, I want a Parliamentary system.

Sucks to be you then doesn't it?

Anything preventing you from moving to such a country? Nope, you're free. Go for it!

 

[Pogo]

You prove my point /perfectly/ son. You have no clue how we live, nor do you really even care how we live, and when you go vote you don't think about /us/ nor any other state's needs/interests/reality/life style when you push that button.

Once AGAIN nothing I have posted was about "Alaska" in any way shape or form, nor do I think I've ever posted anything about Alaska at all. I've made no claim to opine on how you live or how you do anything. And I know for damn sure I've never voted for anybody running for an Alaskan office and I have no Alaskan representatives nor is it my place to. It's actually one of five states I've never even been to.

Apparently you're incapable of focusing on any topic without steering it back to whining about Alaska.
Sucks to be you.

No, but you did try to argue (or at least comment against my argument against) "PV is better than EC because it should be majority rules/true democracy." Majority rules means that Alaskan's needs/opinions/policial views are completely ignored. We simply do not have the population to be heard over even a single large lower 48 city, and Alaska is just ONE example, there's another 44 states who will be put in the exact same position of having no voice if PV is instated. CA, WA, TX, FL, NY will direct the /entire/ nation, and they are /not/ going to consider the other 45 states needs at all - human nature is selfish and self absorbed. That's why the EC is better, because then each individual, and unique, state, regardless of population, has a voice.

And now you're right back to whining about what "majority rules" means.

Look, that's how elections and referenda work. Highest vote wins.
Don't like it? Secede. But don't sit here whining because the only reason your team lost the game is it didn't score enough points. That's a mindless argument.

CA, WA, TX, FL, NY will direct the /entire/ nation, and they are /not/ going to consider the other 45 states needs at all

Holy SHIT. Really?

WHY would they vote for other states' needs? Do you vote for Indiana's needs? Or do you vote for your own?

Here's (part of) what's flying over your head --- "CA, WA, TX, FL, NY", or any other large state, or small state for that matter, could not 'decide' diddly if voters rather than collective entities purporting to speak for voters weren't throwing out half their own citizens' votes in the first place and skewing their weight around.

If the voters of "CA, WA, TX, FL, NY" etc etc actually thought their vote meant something, then we wouldn't have an internationally embarrassing 55% turnout, and the end results would be completely different. There would be no such thing as a "red state" or a "blue state", dominating anything. Because all those voters who don't bother now would suddenly have a reason to be heard. There would be no such thing as "flyover country". And there would be none of this artificial DIVISION bullshit that the WTA-EC causes now. We would actually have an electorate participating in an election, rather than a racket.

 

[EverCurious]

You prove my point /perfectly/ son. You have no clue how we live, nor do you really even care how we live, and when you go vote you don't think about /us/ nor any other state's needs/interests/reality/life style when you push that button.

Once AGAIN nothing I have posted was about "Alaska" in any way shape or form, nor do I think I've ever posted anything about Alaska at all. I've made no claim to opine on how you live or how you do anything. And I know for damn sure I've never voted for anybody running for an Alaskan office and I have no Alaskan representatives nor is it my place to. It's actually one of five states I've never even been to.

Apparently you're incapable of focusing on any topic without steering it back to whining about Alaska.
Sucks to be you.

No, but you did try to argue (or at least comment against my argument against) "PV is better than EC because it should be majority rules/true democracy." Majority rules means that Alaskan's needs/opinions/policial views are completely ignored. We simply do not have the population to be heard over even a single large lower 48 city, and Alaska is just ONE example, there's another 44 states who will be put in the exact same position of having no voice if PV is instated. CA, WA, TX, FL, NY will direct the /entire/ nation, and they are /not/ going to consider the other 45 states needs at all - human nature is selfish and self absorbed. That's why the EC is better, because then each individual, and unique, state, regardless of population, has a voice.

And now you're right back to whining about what "majority rules" means.

Look, that's how elections and referenda work. Highest vote wins.
Don't like it? Secede. But don't sit here whining because the only reason your team lost the game is it didn't score enough points. That's a mindless argument.

CA, WA, TX, FL, NY will direct the /entire/ nation, and they are /not/ going to consider the other 45 states needs at all

Holy SHIT. Really?

WHY would they vote for other states' needs? Do you vote for Indiana's needs? Or do you vote for your own?

Here's (part of) what's flying over your head --- "CA, WA, TX, FL, NY", or any other large state, or small state for that matter, could not 'decide' diddly if voters rather than collective entities purporting to speak for voters weren't throwing out half their own citizens' votes in the first place and skewing their weight around.

If the voters of "CA, WA, TX, FL, NY" etc etc actually thought their vote meant something, then we wouldn't have an internationally embarrassing 55% turnout, and the end results would be completely different. There would be no such thing as a "red state" or a "blue state", dominating anything. Because all those voters who don't bother now would suddenly have a reason to be heard. There would be no such thing as "flyover country". And there would be none of this artificial DIVISION bullshit that the WTA-EC causes now. We would actually have an electorate participating in an election, rather than a racket.

I feel for the other states man, so yes, I do at least consider them before I vote - of course, I'm sure most of the shit that fucked small states never gets heard on the news because the MSM are fucking shit journalists and those folks can't out advertise anyone to get their plight out there. Trust me, a lot of times I wish we /could/ succeed... You know damn fucking well that the lower 48 would /never/ let us leave, give me a break with that bullshit.


The rule of majority fucks /everyone/ except big city folks, that's the reality of it "by the numbers." My bringing up the VALID needs and opinions of the 'minority' states is not fucking whining, it's pointing out a valid concern for WHY those states do not want popular vote. It's also explaining why you will /never/ see PV over EC in America. You want to keep thinking a pipe dream is ever gonna be possible, have at you. ~shrug~

 

[longknife]

Nowhere in the Constitution does if refer to political parties. The Founders almost all felt that such entities could only hurt, not help, the Representative Republic. Their consensus was that all the voting members of a Congressional District should make the decision free of political bias.

And, the ONLY federal election was for POTUS and VPOTUS. And they didn't have to be of the same political entity.

 

[Pogo]

You prove my point /perfectly/ son. You have no clue how we live, nor do you really even care how we live, and when you go vote you don't think about /us/ nor any other state's needs/interests/reality/life style when you push that button.

Once AGAIN nothing I have posted was about "Alaska" in any way shape or form, nor do I think I've ever posted anything about Alaska at all. I've made no claim to opine on how you live or how you do anything. And I know for damn sure I've never voted for anybody running for an Alaskan office and I have no Alaskan representatives nor is it my place to. It's actually one of five states I've never even been to.

Apparently you're incapable of focusing on any topic without steering it back to whining about Alaska.
Sucks to be you.

No, but you did try to argue (or at least comment against my argument against) "PV is better than EC because it should be majority rules/true democracy." Majority rules means that Alaskan's needs/opinions/policial views are completely ignored. We simply do not have the population to be heard over even a single large lower 48 city, and Alaska is just ONE example, there's another 44 states who will be put in the exact same position of having no voice if PV is instated. CA, WA, TX, FL, NY will direct the /entire/ nation, and they are /not/ going to consider the other 45 states needs at all - human nature is selfish and self absorbed. That's why the EC is better, because then each individual, and unique, state, regardless of population, has a voice.

And now you're right back to whining about what "majority rules" means.

Look, that's how elections and referenda work. Highest vote wins.
Don't like it? Secede. But don't sit here whining because the only reason your team lost the game is it didn't score enough points. That's a mindless argument.

CA, WA, TX, FL, NY will direct the /entire/ nation, and they are /not/ going to consider the other 45 states needs at all

Holy SHIT. Really?

WHY would they vote for other states' needs? Do you vote for Indiana's needs? Or do you vote for your own?

Here's (part of) what's flying over your head --- "CA, WA, TX, FL, NY", or any other large state, or small state for that matter, could not 'decide' diddly if voters rather than collective entities purporting to speak for voters weren't throwing out half their own citizens' votes in the first place and skewing their weight around.

If the voters of "CA, WA, TX, FL, NY" etc etc actually thought their vote meant something, then we wouldn't have an internationally embarrassing 55% turnout, and the end results would be completely different. There would be no such thing as a "red state" or a "blue state", dominating anything. Because all those voters who don't bother now would suddenly have a reason to be heard. There would be no such thing as "flyover country". And there would be none of this artificial DIVISION bullshit that the WTA-EC causes now. We would actually have an electorate participating in an election, rather than a racket.

I feel for the other states man, so yes, I do at least consider them before I vote - of course, I'm sure most of the shit that fucked small states never gets heard on the news because the MSM are fucking shit journalists and those folks can't out advertise anyone to get their plight out there. Trust me, a lot of times I wish we /could/ succeed... You know damn fucking well that the lower 48 would /never/ let us leave, give me a break with that bullshit.


The rule of majority fucks /everyone/ except big city folks, that's the reality of it "by the numbers." My bringing up the VALID needs and opinions of the 'minority' states is not fucking whining, it's pointing out a valid concern for WHY those states do not want popular vote. It's also explaining why you will /never/ see PV over EC in America. You want to keep thinking a pipe dream is ever gonna be possible, have at you. ~shrug~

Gesundheit.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

America has a bright future!

Millennial poll: Strong majority want a third political party

71% of millennials want a 3rd political party

In the same poll, it was found that 2% said they would ever consider getting off of their ass to start one.

 

[EverCurious]

America has a bright future!

Millennial poll: Strong majority want a third political party

71% of millennials want a 3rd political party

In the same poll, it was found that 2% said they would ever consider getting off of their ass to start one.

I'm not surprised by that honestly, that is the "upper class" who later becomes the "1%." I have a "grand theory of the human condition" that addresses it. It's like there are two types of folks; leaders and followers. (For the record there is nothing wrong with being a follower at all. It just means they don't have the competitive drive, the desire for challenge, the joy of working/teaching/extra responsibility/[there's more too]) My biggest issue is not so much with the "sheep" but rather with the 'leaders' of the sheep because not all wolves /should/ lead sheep (to example; religious leaders who teach their followers to "hate" gays, ISIS/Radical Islamic's have bad leaders, teachers who push "hate america" shit in school, managers/CEO's/BOD's who have zero respect their employees [not talking about income equality here obviously; I'm talking about like the sexual shit, abuse of power, but also stuff like not being understanding or reasonable - like a mom's kid gets sick once in a while (maybe twice a year or a little more depending), if she has to take off work she gets canned] - and there's a lot more examples of "bad leaders.")

 

[TheParser]

I think that if we actually want democracy, we should have proportional representation.

Then all points of view would have a seat at the table. And we could then have more than two viable political parties.

A government would usually be a coalition -- as is required in Israel, Germany, Italy, etc.

(I may be mistaken, but I think that there is serious talk in the United Kingdom about introducing some form of proportional representation.)