Nelson Mandela dead

[bigrebnc1775]

Thank you for confirming that you have been brainwashed by the Koch brothers.

So CNN has connection with the koch brothers? really I suggested that you seek help for that delusion you have.

TARP occurred in late 2008!

Almost an entire year earlier in December in 2007 Ron Paul staged the 1st Tea Party event.

Nationwide Tax Protests: Party Like It?s 2007

As activists across the country hold national tea parties today, April 15, 2009, Campaign for Liberty president John Tate issued the following statement:

“The concept of the modern day Tea Party began on December 16, 2007 when supporters of Ron Paul’s presidential campaign came together and raised over $6 million online in one day. The tremendous success of that event led activists in the freedom movement and members of the Campaign for Liberty to begin planning today’s Tax Day Tea Parties.

“Success always brings company, and it is very positive that so many conservatives, libertarians, Republicans, constitutionalists and even progressives have come together and joined our efforts. All Americans who are sincere about cutting out of control government spending are welcome to stand with Dr. Paul and the Campaign for Liberty as we fight to take our country back.”

The FACTS prove that you are both gullible and brainwashed.

Who was president in 2008?
I used the CNN LINK.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Yeap. You are one of the many reasons I stopped being a Republican. Your penchant for stereotyping people is unheard of.

You have never once stopped to think about what Mandela's thought process was in all of this. South Africa's Apartheid government successfully turned the US against him and the ANC, so he was never going to get any help from them. Who else was he to turn to, precisely?

Did not our founding fathers have to turn to the French and the Germans to aid them in our Revolution?

Mandela did not turn to the communist party for help while in jail. He was already a Communist getting help from members of the south African communist party.

Mandela did hold senior rank in the South African Communist Party, or SACP
Nelson Mandela 'proven' to be a member of the Communist Party after decades of denial - Telegraph

Ironic source since the Telegraph was the "voice of labor" and allied with the communists in the 1960's.

Notice the grammar in the title. Notice the word 'proven' is in quotation marks. That infers doubt on the facts being presented in the article.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I read this article in full yesterday, while ironically arguing with you, bigreb.

From your link:

"He knew and trusted many Communist activists anyway, so it appears he was co-opted straight to the central committee with no probation required," said Prof Ellis. "But it's fair to say he wasn't a real convert, it was just an opportunist thing."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-Communist-Party-after-decades-of-denial.html

 

[bigrebnc1775]

i read this article in full yesterday, while ironically arguing with you, bigreb.

From your link:

"he knew and trusted many communist activists anyway, so it appears he was co-opted straight to the central committee with no probation required," said prof ellis. "but it's fair to say he wasn't a real convert, it was just an opportunist thing."

Nelson Mandela 'proven' to be a member of the Communist Party after decades of denial - Telegraph

oh so he was an unwilling member?

 

[TemplarKormac]

i read this article in full yesterday, while ironically arguing with you, bigreb.

From your link:

"he knew and trusted many communist activists anyway, so it appears he was co-opted straight to the central committee with no probation required," said prof ellis. "but it's fair to say he wasn't a real convert, it was just an opportunist thing."

Nelson Mandela 'proven' to be a member of the Communist Party after decades of denial - Telegraph

oh so he was an unwilling member?

It's from your own link buddy. Don't act so surprised. Did you even read the entire article or did you simply cherrypick your way through it? I used to be like that once, posting articles with what I deemed favorable titles only to have them turned against me when I failed to actually read them.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

i read this article in full yesterday, while ironically arguing with you, bigreb.

From your link:



Nelson Mandela 'proven' to be a member of the Communist Party after decades of denial - Telegraph

oh so he was an unwilling member?

It's from your own link buddy. Don't act so surprised. Did you even read the entire article or did you simply cherrypick your way through it? I used to be like that once, posting articles with what I deemed favorable titles only to have them turned against me when I failed to actually read them.

Sure ok still not taking away that he's a communist.

 

[Kondor3]

I, for one, am entirely willing to stipulate that Mandela either was an actual Communist or that he supported any of a handful of socio-political approaches that could reasonably be called closely akin to Communism, throughout all or much of his adult life and his activist career.

I am also entirely willing to stipulate that Mandela certainly held such convictions at some point in time, and that his ANC party at the time of his Presidency and beyond into the present day, operates in fairly close partnership with one or more parties who identify as Communist or something similar.

But I am also entirely willing to stipulate that Mandela avoided the worst excesses that a Communist-like takeover of a country stereotypically produces, and maintained a Rule of Law rather than resorting to vengeful legal and police and military and riotous measures.

And I am also entirely willing to stipulate that if Mandela had Communist -like leanings or tendencies at various stages of his adult life, he managed to weave those into a more balanced political and advocacy framework, so that the Communist-leaning aspects of his approach were merely part of a larger whole, and nowhere near as noticeable as most other large-scale revolutions with Populist or Communist or Socialist undertones.

If the guy was a Commie, he was, to the Western mind, collectively, one of a rare breed; to wit: a Good Commie.

Any way you slice it, the fellow did well, for his country, his people, and his legacy...

Doubly-so if he really was a Commie or similar, and still ended-up being greatly admired by the Winners of the Cold War (The West).

 

[TemplarKormac]

oh so he was an unwilling member?

It's from your own link buddy. Don't act so surprised. Did you even read the entire article or did you simply cherrypick your way through it? I used to be like that once, posting articles with what I deemed favorable titles only to have them turned against me when I failed to actually read them.

Sure ok still not taking away that he's a communist.

Uhh, what? You were just calling him one. Now he isn't?

Huh?

That's my cue, cya!

 

[bigrebnc1775]

I, for one, am entirely willing to stipulate that Mandela either was an actual Communist or that he supported any of a handful of socio-political approaches that could reasonably be called closely akin to Communism, throughout all or much of his adult life and his activist career.

I am also entirely willing to stipulate that Mandela certainly held such convictions at some point in time, and that is ANC party at the time of his Presidency and beyond into the present day, operates in fairly close partnership with one or more parties who identify as Communist or something similar.

But I am also entirely willing to stipulate that Mandela avoided the worst excesses that a Communist-like takeover of a country stereotypically produces, and maintained a Rule of Law rather than resorting to vengeful legal and police and military and riotous measures.

And I am also entirely willing to stipulate that if Mandela had Communist -like leanings or tendencies at various stages of his adult life, he managed to weave those into a more balance political and advocacy framework, so that the Communist-leaning aspects of his approach were merely part of a larger whole, and nowhere near as noticeable as most other large-scale revolutions with Populist or Communist or Socialist undertones.

If the guy was a Commie, he was, to the Western mind, collectively, one of a rare breed; to wit: a Good Commie.

Any way you slice it, the fellow did well, for his country, his people, and his legacy...

Doubly-so if he really was a Commie or similar, and still ended-up being greatly admired by the Winners of the Cold War (The West).

FDR thought Uncle Joe was a good commie to.

 

[Kondor3]

"...FDR thought Uncle Joe was a good commie to."

Doesn't matter. Mandela prevented slaughter. Joe starved and shot millions. Slight difference.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

It's from your own link buddy. Don't act so surprised. Did you even read the entire article or did you simply cherrypick your way through it? I used to be like that once, posting articles with what I deemed favorable titles only to have them turned against me when I failed to actually read them.

Sure ok still not taking away that he's a communist.

Uhh, what? You were just calling him one. Now he isn't?

Huh?

That's my cue, cya!

Excuse me I meant your attempt is still not taking away from him being a communist.

 

[Kondor3]

"...Excuse me I meant your attempt is still not taking away from him being a communist."

Then he was a Communist, who overcame that 'handicap'.

Next slide, please.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

"...Excuse me I meant your attempt is still not taking away from him being a communist."

Then he was a Communist, who overcame that 'handicap'.

Next slide, please.

Still a communist that will not change.
How are things in south Africa?

 

[TemplarKormac]

"...Excuse me I meant your attempt is still not taking away from him being a communist."

Then he was a Communist, who overcame that 'handicap'.

Next slide, please.

Still a communist that will not change.
How are things in south Africa?

12 years after the fact? The stabilizing influence is gone. Mandela couldn't coddle the South African people forever. Just because you say he's a communist will not make it so. Mere insistence will not win you any arguments where facts are involved.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Sure ok still not taking away that he's a communist.

Uhh, what? You were just calling him one. Now he isn't?

Huh?

That's my cue, cya!

Excuse me I meant your attempt is still not taking away from him being a communist.

...Rrrright...

 

[rightwinger]

oh so he was an unwilling member?

It's from your own link buddy. Don't act so surprised. Did you even read the entire article or did you simply cherrypick your way through it? I used to be like that once, posting articles with what I deemed favorable titles only to have them turned against me when I failed to actually read them.

Sure ok still not taking away that he's a communist.

What was the negative impact of him being a communist?

 

[Samson]

Communist or not seems irrelevant. In fact, so is the fact that he is dead, and receives any recognition for anything. He was imprisoned as the leader of a armed insurrection against the government of South Africa. So have many Islamist Extremist been imprisoned for arming themselves in opposition to governments, including the USA.

The difference is that Mandela was a US Media Darling, and still is. Many advertisements were sold in papers and in TV telling, retelling, and retelling again Mandela's story, and with each public appearance, the media value grew. Presidents and celebrities wanted their pictures taken with Mandela.

I'm certain he was a nice fellow, but the Hyperventillating Media is sickening in their obvious desire to manufacture celebrity, and to capitalize on it.

 

[Kondor3]

Communist or not seems irrelevant. In fact, so is the fact that he is dead, and receives any recognition for anything. He was imprisoned as the leader of a armed insurrection against the government of South Africa. So have many Islamist Extremist been imprisoned for arming themselves in opposition to governments, including the USA.

The difference is that Mandela was a US Media Darling, and still is. Many advertisements were sold in papers and in TV telling, retelling, and retelling again Mandela's story, and with each public appearance, the media value grew. Presidents and celebrities wanted their pictures taken with Mandela.

I'm certain he was a nice fellow, but the Hyperventillating Media is sickening in their obvious desire to manufacture celebrity, and to capitalize on it.

You might very well be on to something there; to a considerable degree, at least.

The only thing that struck me as 'contentious' would be the 'age' of the attempt to 'manufacture celebrity'....

I'm thinking that they'd pretty much wrapped that one up by the the middle 1990s...

They did a decent job of laying that foundation, back then, rightly or wrongly, or anything in -between...

Although I'll grant you that they're certainly capitalizing upon it at the moment...

Still, it's difficult to discount the idea that the old boy's own works and deeds have something to do with all of this...

 

[Katzndogz]

Then he was a Communist, who overcame that 'handicap'.

Next slide, please.

Still a communist that will not change.
How are things in south Africa?

12 years after the fact? The stabilizing influence is gone. Mandela couldn't coddle the South African people forever. Just because you say he's a communist will not make it so. Mere insistence will not win you any arguments where facts are involved.

There never was a stabilizing influence. The entire ANC government of South Africa had one purpose, to redistibute the confiscated property from the whites to the blacks. As long as it was performing that duty, it was functioning. Now that's griding down, there is less and less to redistribute. The government is ceasing to function.

Nelson Mandela said the was a communist. He wrote a book about it that is still in print you can get your own copy at Barnes and Noble. If you want it as an e-book, it's free. There is no reason to disbelieve him when he said he was a communist.

 

[SayMyName]

Well, no matter. Whatever it took to end Apartheid, if that was him that had to be at the center of it, so be it. It was a blight on humanity.