Next time you hear someone criticizing socialism...

[francoHFW]

under capitalism, man oppresses man. under socialism, its the other way around my friends. its a whole different ballgame!

We are the only Rich developed country that is not socialist in the modern sense, so the Rich are screwing over everyone else... Congratulations to the GOP great job!

We are the only Rich developed country that is not socialist in the modern sense

Must be why we have the largest economy, eh comrade?

Healthcare seems to be what we are missing to be barely socialist.
I don't think that all those benefits bother the economy at all, just make people feel better and happier, and add opportunity for better jobs. Thank you scumbag greedy idiot GOP and dubes like you...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

under capitalism, man oppresses man. under socialism, its the other way around my friends. its a whole different ballgame!

We are the only Rich developed country that is not socialist in the modern sense, so the Rich are screwing over everyone else... Congratulations to the GOP great job!

We are the only Rich developed country that is not socialist in the modern sense

Must be why we have the largest economy, eh comrade?

Didn't China pass us?

Nope.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

under capitalism, man oppresses man. under socialism, its the other way around my friends. its a whole different ballgame!

We are the only Rich developed country that is not socialist in the modern sense, so the Rich are screwing over everyone else... Congratulations to the GOP great job!

We are the only Rich developed country that is not socialist in the modern sense

Must be why we have the largest economy, eh comrade?

Well we have by far the best natural resources. Their economies are just as good as ours is, except after the corrupt scumbag GOP wrecks the world economy again. Having all those natural resources helps then.

Well we have by far the best natural resources.

Norway had more, per capita.

 

[The Purge]

Amazing how greed and mind manipulation of young heads full of mush actually will direct our politics and policies for decades to come.....when you have never had any self worth and pride in accomplishments.....THIS is what one can expect!

 

[Doc7505]

Ask them how well capitalism was doing in 1929.
View attachment 245504 View attachment 245506 View attachment 245505

To the extent that capitalism’s problems – inequality, instability (cycles/crises), etc. – stem in part from its production relationships, reforms focused exclusively on regulating or supplanting markets will not succeed in solving them. For example, Keynesian monetary policies (focused on raising or lowering the quantity of money in circulation and, correspondingly, interest rates) do not touch the employer-employee relationship, however much their variations redistribute wealth, regulate markets, or displace markets in favor of state-administered investment decisions. Likewise, Keynesian fiscal policies (raising or lowering taxes and government spending) do not address the employer-employee relationship.

Keynesian policies also never ended the cyclical instability of capitalism. The New Deal and European social democracy left capitalism in place in both state and private units (enterprises) of production notwithstanding their massive reform agendas and programs. They thereby left capitalist employers facing the incentives and receiving the resources (profits) to evade, weaken and eventually dissolve most of those programs.

It is far better not to distribute wealth unequally in the first place than to re-distribute it after to undo the inequality. For example, FDR proposed in 1944 that the government establish a maximum income alongside a minimum wage; that is one among the various ways inequality could be limited and thereby redistribution avoided. Efforts to redistribute encounter evasions, oppositions, and failures that compound the effects of unequal distribution itself. Social peace and cohesion are the victims of redistribution sooner or later. Reforming markets while leaving the relations/organization of capitalist production unchanged is like redistribution. Just as redistribution schemes fail to solve the problems rooted in distribution, market-focused reforms fail to solve the problems rooted in production.

Since 2008, capitalism has showed us all yet again its deep and unsolved problems of cyclical instability, deepening inequality and the injustices they both entail. Their persistence mirrors that of the capitalist organization of production. To successfully confront and solve the problems of economic cycles, income and wealth inequality, and so on, we need to go beyond the capitalist employer-employee system of production. The democratization of enterprises – transitioning from employer-employee hierarchies to worker cooperatives – is a key way available here and now to realize the change we need.

Worker coops democratically decide the distribution of income (wages, bonuses, benefits, profit shares, etc.) among their members. No small group of owners and the boards of directors they choose would, as in capitalist corporations, make such decisions. Thus, for example, it would be far less likely that a few individuals in a worker coop would earn millions while most others could not afford to send children to college. A democratic worker coop decision on the distribution of enterprise income would be far less unequal than what typifies capitalist enterprises. A socialism for the 21st century could and should include the transition from a capitalist to a worker-coop-based economic system as central to its commitments to less inequality and less social conflict over redistribution.

Capitalism Is Not the “Market System”

Strangely all the Socialist ideas that the racist KKK, Progressive Marxist Socialists and FDR came up with the New Deal to bring America out of the Depression did not work. What did bring the U.S. out of the Great Depression was World War II. The slogan was "A Chicken In Every Pot And A Car In The Garage". What's the slogan for the "Green New Deal"?

#37 – If FDR's New Deal Didn't End the Depression, Then It ...
https://fee.org/articles/37-if-fdrs-new-deal-didnt-end-the...
In April 1939, almost ten years after the crisis began, more than one in five Americans still could not find work. On the surface, World War II seems to mark the end of the Great Depression. During the war more than 12 million Americans were sent into the military, and a similar number toiled in defense-related jobs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~​

The Great Depression and World War II, 1929-1945 | Gilder ...
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-now/great-depression-and...
And between 1929 and 1945 the Great Depression and World War II utterly redefined the role of government in American society and catapulted the United States from an isolated, peripheral state into the world’s hegemonic superpower.

 

[danielpalos]

under capitalism, man oppresses man. under socialism, its the other way around my friends. its a whole different ballgame!

We are the only Rich developed country that is not socialist in the modern sense, so the Rich are screwing over everyone else... Congratulations to the GOP great job!

We are the only Rich developed country that is not socialist in the modern sense

Must be why we have the largest economy, eh comrade?

Healthcare seems to be what we are missing to be barely socialist.
I don't think that all those benefits bother the economy at all, just make people feel better and happier, and add opportunity for better jobs. Thank you scumbag greedy idiot GOP and dubes like you...

The right wing doesn't claim our alleged wars on crime, drugs, or terror as socialism on a national basis.

 

[danielpalos]

Ask them how well capitalism was doing in 1929.
View attachment 245504 View attachment 245506 View attachment 245505

To the extent that capitalism’s problems – inequality, instability (cycles/crises), etc. – stem in part from its production relationships, reforms focused exclusively on regulating or supplanting markets will not succeed in solving them. For example, Keynesian monetary policies (focused on raising or lowering the quantity of money in circulation and, correspondingly, interest rates) do not touch the employer-employee relationship, however much their variations redistribute wealth, regulate markets, or displace markets in favor of state-administered investment decisions. Likewise, Keynesian fiscal policies (raising or lowering taxes and government spending) do not address the employer-employee relationship.

Keynesian policies also never ended the cyclical instability of capitalism. The New Deal and European social democracy left capitalism in place in both state and private units (enterprises) of production notwithstanding their massive reform agendas and programs. They thereby left capitalist employers facing the incentives and receiving the resources (profits) to evade, weaken and eventually dissolve most of those programs.

It is far better not to distribute wealth unequally in the first place than to re-distribute it after to undo the inequality. For example, FDR proposed in 1944 that the government establish a maximum income alongside a minimum wage; that is one among the various ways inequality could be limited and thereby redistribution avoided. Efforts to redistribute encounter evasions, oppositions, and failures that compound the effects of unequal distribution itself. Social peace and cohesion are the victims of redistribution sooner or later. Reforming markets while leaving the relations/organization of capitalist production unchanged is like redistribution. Just as redistribution schemes fail to solve the problems rooted in distribution, market-focused reforms fail to solve the problems rooted in production.

Since 2008, capitalism has showed us all yet again its deep and unsolved problems of cyclical instability, deepening inequality and the injustices they both entail. Their persistence mirrors that of the capitalist organization of production. To successfully confront and solve the problems of economic cycles, income and wealth inequality, and so on, we need to go beyond the capitalist employer-employee system of production. The democratization of enterprises – transitioning from employer-employee hierarchies to worker cooperatives – is a key way available here and now to realize the change we need.

Worker coops democratically decide the distribution of income (wages, bonuses, benefits, profit shares, etc.) among their members. No small group of owners and the boards of directors they choose would, as in capitalist corporations, make such decisions. Thus, for example, it would be far less likely that a few individuals in a worker coop would earn millions while most others could not afford to send children to college. A democratic worker coop decision on the distribution of enterprise income would be far less unequal than what typifies capitalist enterprises. A socialism for the 21st century could and should include the transition from a capitalist to a worker-coop-based economic system as central to its commitments to less inequality and less social conflict over redistribution.

Capitalism Is Not the “Market System”

Strangely all the Socialist ideas that the racist KKK, Progressive Marxist Socialists and FDR came up with the New Deal to bring America out of the Depression did not work. What did bring the U.S. out of the Great Depression was World War II. The slogan was "A Chicken In Every Pot And A Car In The Garage". What's the slogan for the "Green New Deal"?

#37 – If FDR's New Deal Didn't End the Depression, Then It ...
https://fee.org/articles/37-if-fdrs-new-deal-didnt-end-the...
In April 1939, almost ten years after the crisis began, more than one in five Americans still could not find work. On the surface, World War II seems to mark the end of the Great Depression. During the war more than 12 million Americans were sent into the military, and a similar number toiled in defense-related jobs.

~~~~~~~~~~~~​

The Great Depression and World War II, 1929-1945 | Gilder ...
https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-now/great-depression-and...
And between 1929 and 1945 the Great Depression and World War II utterly redefined the role of government in American society and catapulted the United States from an isolated, peripheral state into the world’s hegemonic superpower.

FDR "upgraded" our relative third world economy into our first world economy.

 

[dblack]

I have never voted for a Rep (or a Dem) in my life.

And you dodged the obvious:

So dictionary definitions are stupid? Really?

Is that ALL definitions? Or just the ones that don't say what you want them to say?

This is the definition of 'socialism' from one of the most, respected dictionaries in the world - the Oxford Dictionary:

'socialism

NOUN
mass noun

• 1A political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.'

socialism | Definition of socialism in English by Oxford Dictionaries

So are they 'stupid' as well?
Yes or No, please?

This is an obvious strategy by Democrats to undermine criticism of socialism by undermining the meaning of the word itself.

Democratic socialism then, brainwashed Cold War dinosaur functional moron.

That's an oxymoron

When the government owns all means of production and distribution there can be no democracy

You're damn straight, twice a day I suppose. That's why everyone in the real world calls that communism and it is a total failure and always totalitarian, while since the early 20th century socialism has been defined more and more as always Democratic Fair capitalism with a good safety net.. people discovered the Karl Marx was fos and always wrong except for the plight of the proletariat at the time. Then people discovered that the USSR was a scam with no democracy. Wake up and smell the coffee for crying out loud, the Socialist parties in every modern country that has one is always my definition.Only You brainwashed functional morons of the GOP, and there are Democrats and conservatives in other countries that continue this scam definition of communism as socialism. Ask Bernie Sanders or AOC what socialism is dipstick. It is democratic socialism always democratic... Except for you Chumps who still believe every phony Scandal about Hillary Obama the FBI, still believe that the rich pay too much in taxes LOL. Change the channel and read something from actual journalists and law enforcement, brainwashed functional morons...

And yet the dictionary defines it as socialism

you know what you want

So who is correct you or the people who publish the OED?

I know who I'll put my money on

I've said it before, but this is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the definition of socialism, to in turn neutralize opposition to socialism. Don't let them get away with it.

 

[Blues Man]

This is an obvious strategy by Democrats to undermine criticism of socialism by undermining the meaning of the word itself.

Democratic socialism then, brainwashed Cold War dinosaur functional moron.

That's an oxymoron

When the government owns all means of production and distribution there can be no democracy

Why should we take the right wing seriously?

If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost.

Aristotle

Why should I take you seriously?

i was quoting Aristotle?

I didn't say that

seems you don't know how to use the quote function either

 

[Tehon]

This is an obvious strategy by Democrats to undermine criticism of socialism by undermining the meaning of the word itself.

Democratic socialism then, brainwashed Cold War dinosaur functional moron.

That's an oxymoron

When the government owns all means of production and distribution there can be no democracy

You're damn straight, twice a day I suppose. That's why everyone in the real world calls that communism and it is a total failure and always totalitarian, while since the early 20th century socialism has been defined more and more as always Democratic Fair capitalism with a good safety net.. people discovered the Karl Marx was fos and always wrong except for the plight of the proletariat at the time. Then people discovered that the USSR was a scam with no democracy. Wake up and smell the coffee for crying out loud, the Socialist parties in every modern country that has one is always my definition.Only You brainwashed functional morons of the GOP, and there are Democrats and conservatives in other countries that continue this scam definition of communism as socialism. Ask Bernie Sanders or AOC what socialism is dipstick. It is democratic socialism always democratic... Except for you Chumps who still believe every phony Scandal about Hillary Obama the FBI, still believe that the rich pay too much in taxes LOL. Change the channel and read something from actual journalists and law enforcement, brainwashed functional morons...

And yet the dictionary defines it as socialism

you know what you want

So who is correct you or the people who publish the OED?

I know who I'll put my money on

I've said it before, but this is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the definition of socialism, to in turn neutralize opposition to socialism. Don't let them get away with it.

There is no consensus as to what capitalism means. Why would socialism be any different?

 

[danielpalos]

Democratic socialism then, brainwashed Cold War dinosaur functional moron.

That's an oxymoron

When the government owns all means of production and distribution there can be no democracy

Why should we take the right wing seriously?

If liberty and equality, as is thought by some, are chiefly to be found in democracy, they will be best attained when all persons alike share in government to the utmost.

Aristotle

Why should I take you seriously?

i was quoting Aristotle?

I didn't say that

seems you don't know how to use the quote function either

it still applies. you are Only always right, in right wing fantasy.

 

[danielpalos]

Democratic socialism then, brainwashed Cold War dinosaur functional moron.

That's an oxymoron

When the government owns all means of production and distribution there can be no democracy

You're damn straight, twice a day I suppose. That's why everyone in the real world calls that communism and it is a total failure and always totalitarian, while since the early 20th century socialism has been defined more and more as always Democratic Fair capitalism with a good safety net.. people discovered the Karl Marx was fos and always wrong except for the plight of the proletariat at the time. Then people discovered that the USSR was a scam with no democracy. Wake up and smell the coffee for crying out loud, the Socialist parties in every modern country that has one is always my definition.Only You brainwashed functional morons of the GOP, and there are Democrats and conservatives in other countries that continue this scam definition of communism as socialism. Ask Bernie Sanders or AOC what socialism is dipstick. It is democratic socialism always democratic... Except for you Chumps who still believe every phony Scandal about Hillary Obama the FBI, still believe that the rich pay too much in taxes LOL. Change the channel and read something from actual journalists and law enforcement, brainwashed functional morons...

And yet the dictionary defines it as socialism

you know what you want

So who is correct you or the people who publish the OED?

I know who I'll put my money on

I've said it before, but this is a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the definition of socialism, to in turn neutralize opposition to socialism. Don't let them get away with it.

There is no consensus as to what capitalism means. Why would socialism be any different?

nobody takes the right wing seriously when they resort to special pleading with a dictionary definition understanding of socialism. The left has an encyclopedic understanding of socialism.

 

[badger2]

Where danielpalos gets discombobulated is at the point where the left itself is defined. Since Deleuze presupposed such lack of education as D's by redefining The Left, D has always already been screwed by information anarchy, though D does not know it. D spends too much time in an illusory libidinal world fixated on the flesh, somewhat similar to most closet xians (atheism secretors) f'ed up on the Lord.

The reader has the capability at this point to take the ambiguous trident seriously, whether used in elections or current media, especially when investigating Trollop Pelosi's modus operandi. Firstly, it must be shown why socialism is impossible, followed by a Sanders-Pelosi assemblage, which few have noticed. This requires a (likely painful?) reading assignment. The following excerpt we consider one of Hardt and Negri's finest published passages:

'The working-class struggle puts the functioning of the law of value in definitive crisis, not only in the sens that its practices determine and reinforce the functioning of the law of the tendential fall of the rate of profit, but in the even more profound sense of destabilizing the very terms on which the law holds, in other words, taking away the meaning of the relation between necessary labor and surplus labor (which, as Marx says, is in the final instance the foundation of everything). At this very moment, socialism becomes impossible. Socialism and all the socialist utopias try to put forth the actual realization of the law of value, which amounts to saying the complete real subsumption of social labor into capital. This is possible, however, only in terms of the dialectic of the classes, only as a moment of class struggle. At this point, all the variants of the socialist utopia, both the objective ones (socialism as the socialization of the means of production and the rationalization of command) and the subjectivist ones (the new mode of production, cooperation, participation, comanagement, and so forth), are put in crisis, because the law of value is never realized except by at the same time shattering itself apart, imposing at an extremely high level the new antagonism among capitalist labor, command (however legitimated), and the set of productive social forces of the proletariat.

The collapse of the reformist model, tied to the ideology of the planned realization of the law of value, still appears, and even more heavily at this point. It is sufficient to look again at the problematic of public spending, how it is posed from a reformist perspective, and what new antagonisms the reformist will create. Public spending is seen by the reformists as spending that is either directly or indirectly productive. Correctly, they tend to rationalize its management, mold it in terms of the schemas of priorities, and use it to guide development and influence its direction. As we have seen, however, beyond these formal criteria, there is a contradiction between the form of social accumulation and the source (measure and proportion) of its legitimation -- a class contradiction that demonstrates both the tendential unification of the productive social subject and the irrationality of the criterion of the proposed business enterprise legitimation (by its own standards [italics]). As the contradiction becomes subjective in class terms it also becomes explosive. The pressure on public spending becomes a wage pressure, as the political pressure of the working class on the relative wage and -- principally and specifically in the present period -- the struggle against capitalist labor becomes a worker allusion to the new emerging productive force, which demands payment as such.

In this web of contradictions the attempt to rationalize public spending -- a rationalization that must necessarily follow business parameters and explain the business figure of the State -- becomes immediately repressive. This happens not so much because it employs the instruments of the repressive power of the State (and all its multiplying separate bodies) to this end, but because it uses them within the intensity of an unresolved structural contradiction. If socialism is impossible, reformism is even more so. Every reformist practice, in fact, is immediately repressive.'
(Hardt and Negri, Labor of Dionysus: A Critique of the State Form pp. 205-6)

 

[the other mike]

Don't blame me. I voted for Perot in 92 and Nader in 96.

 

[badger2]

Sanders-Pelosi Assemblage:

Nancy Pelosi, 2 Feb 2016: "I am going on record to officially endorse Senator Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Election for President. During his inspiring campaign rise over the last several months, Senator Sanders has proven he has the vision and conviction to lead America. Furthermore, his showing in Iowa yesterday proved that he can capture the hearts, minds and votes of the American people."

We focus on trollop Pelosi's use of the terms 'vision' and 'capture,' especially as 2016 yangrise begins to gather endocosmogenic momentum. This latter concept will be crucial when showing how Oedipus links to the perception of the trident.

Impossible Trident
Impossible trident - Wikipedia

 

[the other mike]

Sanders-Pelosi Assemblage:

Nancy Pelosi, 2 Feb 2016: "I am going on record to officially endorse Senator Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Election for President. During his inspiring campaign rise over the last several months, Senator Sanders has proven he has the vision and conviction to lead America. Furthermore, his showing in Iowa yesterday proved that he can capture the hearts, minds and votes of the American people."

We focus on trollop Pelosi's use of the terms 'vision' and 'capture,' especially as 2016 yangrise begins to gather endocosmogenic momentum. This latter concept will be crucial when showing how Oedipus links to the perception of the trident.

Impossible Trident
Impossible trident - Wikipedia

Just a side-note about Nancy Pelosi....she is the queen of the 'deep state' everyone keeps referring to. Bernie is a Senator from tiny Vermont who's very popular with the people, but she has been on the House Intelligence Committee since before 9/11....she is the conduit between a very real shadow government and the establishment.

Don't let meek little Aunt Nancy fool you.
The best liars are the ones who keep getting away with it.

 

[the other mike]

My friend Richard has a better grasp on all this stuff than me.
I'm more into whistleblower protection, prison reform, money out of politics...all of the above, but not an expert.

 

[francoHFW]

Sanders-Pelosi Assemblage:

Nancy Pelosi, 2 Feb 2016: "I am going on record to officially endorse Senator Bernie Sanders in the 2016 Election for President. During his inspiring campaign rise over the last several months, Senator Sanders has proven he has the vision and conviction to lead America. Furthermore, his showing in Iowa yesterday proved that he can capture the hearts, minds and votes of the American people."

We focus on trollop Pelosi's use of the terms 'vision' and 'capture,' especially as 2016 yangrise begins to gather endocosmogenic momentum. This latter concept will be crucial when showing how Oedipus links to the perception of the trident.

Impossible Trident
Impossible trident - Wikipedia

Just a side-note about Nancy Pelosi....she is the queen of the 'deep state' everyone keeps referring to. Bernie is a Senator from tiny Vermont who's very popular with the people, but she has been on the House Intelligence Committee since before 9/11....she is the conduit between a very real shadow government and the establishment.

Don't let meek little Aunt Nancy fool you.
The best liars are the ones who keep getting away with it.

it's not actually a deep State, it's people who are not brainwashed with GOP garbage propaganda the last 30 years. Breaking for doops... The rich don't pay enough in taxes, causing lack of investment in America and Americans for 30 years now, and we have by far the worst benefits of any country in the modern world, Hillary Obama holder Schumer pelosi are all honest, the GOP is the swamp look at history for crying out loud. Thanks GOP scumbags and the dupes...

 

[the other mike]

Hillary Obama holder Schumer pelosi are all honest, the GOP is the swamp look at history ..

There is gray area .
Everything is not black and white.

 

[the other mike]

"There is no deep state. "